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Frank C.
Guest
ok so you don't understand...pity.
just have fun with your camera and have fun =)
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D70/D50 VS Rebel XT (First DSLR Purchase)
- Thread starter Zerocool
- Start date
just have fun with your camera and have fun =)
DocDAT
Senior Member
What I find scary, is a supposedly elderly engineer who apparently have so much personality vested in his equipment that he can't discuss it rationally.
"Wind blew out of my sails"? Ummm, no I wrote a rational post. The crack quib was because your answer was so far out.
PS: No I'm not pre-med. That was some years ago. Not that I see what it has to do with cameras?
DocDAT
Senior Member
You have fun with your camera in happy dream land too.
erichlund
Senior Member
OK, perhaps you can explain to me why I want or need ISO 100. As I see it, I don't have a noise issue at ISO 200, so that's out. ISO 100 is one stop slower, so on a really bright day, I'd have more lattitude with my faster lenses, but then Nikon gave me 1/8000 rather than 1/4000 to compensate. Am I missing more than just tradition?
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Cheers,
Eric
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Frank C.
Guest
42 years... don't add me years I don't have yet! haha =)
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Frank C.
Guest
If ever you're in my neck of the woods I'll buy you a beerYou have fun with your camera in happy dream land too.
and we could arm-wrestle it out (!!) =))
YellowBullet
Senior Member
Maybe you don't have an issue with noise at ISO 200, but there's definitely some visible noise at ISO 200. Take a look at a clear blue sky at ISO 200, and you'll see some noise there. Some people don't mind it, some do.
What if you try to shoot a waterfall or a fountain on a bright day from a tripod? ISO 100 allows for a slower shutter speed to capture the movement of the water. If you don't have it, you'll have to buy some ND filters for your lenses.
erichlund
Senior Member
If you say so. I haven't seen it, but I don't treat my photos like a lab project either. Ah jist take pitchers.
Well, actually, no, I haven't. But, your point is taken. Good thing I've got some. One of these days I might just come across a fountain I want to take a picture of.
Of course, under that theory, the slowest slide film from my film days was ASA25. None of us can do that without ND filters.
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Cheers,
Eric
NickMJr
Senior Member
On sunny morning or evening when you want to take a picture of someone and the sun directly behind them I'd like to see you Flash Fill at 1/500s at ISO200.
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http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M
psychmike
Leading Member
Come now, in the spirit of NOT wanting to scare away the original poster, I think we can agree that both the D70 and the XT have their respective strengths and weaknesses. Let's not be dogmatic about which is better.
I have the XT and really like 8mp and ISO100. But I wish I had 2 control dials and faster flash sync, I really do. I assume that most of us ha've learned to work with the strengths of our camera and to find work-arounds for features we don't have. Perhaps in the couse of this, we've come to more highly value the features we use and play down the ones we don't have.
Remember, we all have more in common (photography!!!) than we have in differences!
Michael
I have the XT and really like 8mp and ISO100. But I wish I had 2 control dials and faster flash sync, I really do. I assume that most of us ha've learned to work with the strengths of our camera and to find work-arounds for features we don't have. Perhaps in the couse of this, we've come to more highly value the features we use and play down the ones we don't have.
Remember, we all have more in common (photography!!!) than we have in differences!
Michael
YellowBullet
Senior Member
Good for you.
I don't mind noise in most of my photos, and I guarantee you I don't treat my photos like a lab project either. But for some reason I really can't stand to see noise in what is supposed to be a clear blue sky. If I can see noise there it ruins it for me. I'm probably just being silly.
Right. But if you follow the sunny day F16 rule, and take it that the rivers, waterfalls and fountains are usually two stops darker than the sky on a sunny day, then you'll get that ISO 50, 100 and 200 will be the ones deciding on the shutter speed slow enough to capture the water movement at, for example, F32. ISO 200 might be low enough, but it might not, and you might need ISO 100, and maybe even ISO 50.
Someone shooting street photography or sports couldn't care less whether ISO 100 or 200 is the lowest available. Someone shooting landscapes might care a great deal.
YellowBullet
Senior Member
What's this got to do with how valuable ISO 100 is? Nobody ever said that 1/500s flash sync wouldn't be a useful thing to have. I was just answering erichlund who wanted to know why would he ever want or need ISO 100.
Oh, and BTW, in your example I'll just Flash Fill at 1/200 at ISO100 and get nearly the same result. Only 1/3 of a stop of difference. I'll stop the lens down 1/3 of a stop to get the exact same exposure.
So your 1/500s flash sync and ISO 200 will beat my 1/200s sync and ISO100 ONLY when the lens aperture is closed all the way down (f22 or f32), and 1/500s at ISO 200 is the right shutter speed to get the exposure right (1/400 would overexpose it). I'm sure that will happen in our lifetimes.
erichlund
Senior Member
I haven't had a chance to travel with my camera yet. I live in Anaheim. I'm not sure I remember what a clear blue sky looks like. ;-)
I guess the real point is that there's a way for each of us to get the shot. I'm not disagreeing with you, just agreeing that there's more than one way to skin this cat.
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Cheers,
Eric
are very good cameras (D70 and Rebel XT). I have both, actually the Rebel belongs to my fiance. I like my D70 design more but let's face it, the pictures from Rebel XT have higher resolution and with a good lenses, it produces very sharp pictures (no less sharp than D70). Anyone believe that D70 produces sharper images than Rebel XT (or original Rebel) are kidding themself. I have no illusion when I bought the D70 that the sensor is more or less at the same leage as the original Rebel abeit produces higher noise at higher ISO. With the Rebel XT, Canon manages to produce higher MP counts sensor with slightly less noise at a reasonable price. So for me, the picture is relatively simple Sensor on Rebel XT > Original Rebel ~ D70.
I compared the pictures taken from both D70 and Rebel XT and they both are excellent if you know how to use the cameras and lenses. Even with the kit lenses of the Rebel XT, it can make sharp pictures when you stop down the lenses a bit. The pictures from D70 with the kit lense can be really sharp and the D70 kit lenses is definitely better than the Rebel XT kit lenses.
Here is what I will can contribute to this thread and to the original poster questions:
Rebel XT is better than D70 in:
1) Resolution -> Higher resolution gives you ability to crop and while 8mp is not much larger than 6mp, it still give you about 16% more in linear length each side for croping which can be really good thing.
2) Noise -> Rebel XT produces LESS noise than D70 at every ISO. At ISO100, Rebel XT produces absolutely very smooth picture (almost no visible noise even at 100% viewing). At ISO200, they both are similar but the Rebel XT pictures look cleaner to me. At higher ISO, Rebel XT produces cleaner pictures than D70. The noise from Rebel XT is easier to clean up as well (this bases purely on my experiences).
3) Night Photography -> I just learn recently about this since I don't do night shots often. But at ISO800 and ISO1600 on the D70, if you underexpose even a little bit (or sometime even with perfectly exposed picture), you will get horizontal bands. Some cameras are better than other but on mine, I can see it at ISO1600 underexposed just about 1/3 stop. Canon Rebel XT produces much cleaner and no banding problems (unless you underexposed more than 1-2 stops, then you will start to see the vertical banding).
4) MLU -> this can be vital for certain range of shutter speed. Rebel XT have this and D70 don't.
5) Color accuracy -> I find that the Rebel XT produces the color more accurate to my eyes. My D70 produces slightly warm pictures and I like it. But the color from Rebel XT is still more accurate still (at least on my cameras).
6) Canon lenses collection is more extensive that Nikon (subjective here). I like that Canon update most of their lenses to have USM and have very good quality lenses at reasonable price (17-40L or 70-200 f/4 L can be obtained for about $600 each and produces very sharp pictures). Qualities from both Canon and Nikon lenses IMO are comparable (they both very good, on the top of the field).
D70 is better in:
1) Design -> I always like Nikon design. The D70 feel right in my hands and the control is a little bit easier to adjust than Rebel XT. But once you learn how to use the cameras, they both are very good. I still like D70 more than Rebel XT in this regard.
2) Kit Lenses -> The 18-70 AF-S is better than the 18-55 EF-S II. The D70 kit lenses is sharper and focus faster. But this is to be expected from comparing $250 lenses (18-70 AF-S) to a $100 lenses (18-55 EF-S II).
3) Spot Metering -> I find this useful for certain situations. On the Rebel XT, you don't have spot metering.
4) Flash Sync 1/500 -> This can be useful sometime if you cannot freeze frame at 1/200 but relatively minor, at least to me.
5) LCD on the D70 is brighter than that of Rebel XT. But the LCD on my D70 also flicker a little bit. Keep in mind that you may not see the flickering because everyone eyes are different. It worths noting that I find the LCD on the D70 shows inaccurate color. The images show on the D70 lcd appear more contrasty than the real images on my calibrated monitors. The LCD on the Rebel XT, while dimmer produces relatively accurate color. In the end, I ignore the color on my D70 lcd (mainly use it for histogram)
That's pretty much sum up my experiences with both.
MM
I compared the pictures taken from both D70 and Rebel XT and they both are excellent if you know how to use the cameras and lenses. Even with the kit lenses of the Rebel XT, it can make sharp pictures when you stop down the lenses a bit. The pictures from D70 with the kit lense can be really sharp and the D70 kit lenses is definitely better than the Rebel XT kit lenses.
Here is what I will can contribute to this thread and to the original poster questions:
Rebel XT is better than D70 in:
1) Resolution -> Higher resolution gives you ability to crop and while 8mp is not much larger than 6mp, it still give you about 16% more in linear length each side for croping which can be really good thing.
2) Noise -> Rebel XT produces LESS noise than D70 at every ISO. At ISO100, Rebel XT produces absolutely very smooth picture (almost no visible noise even at 100% viewing). At ISO200, they both are similar but the Rebel XT pictures look cleaner to me. At higher ISO, Rebel XT produces cleaner pictures than D70. The noise from Rebel XT is easier to clean up as well (this bases purely on my experiences).
3) Night Photography -> I just learn recently about this since I don't do night shots often. But at ISO800 and ISO1600 on the D70, if you underexpose even a little bit (or sometime even with perfectly exposed picture), you will get horizontal bands. Some cameras are better than other but on mine, I can see it at ISO1600 underexposed just about 1/3 stop. Canon Rebel XT produces much cleaner and no banding problems (unless you underexposed more than 1-2 stops, then you will start to see the vertical banding).
4) MLU -> this can be vital for certain range of shutter speed. Rebel XT have this and D70 don't.
5) Color accuracy -> I find that the Rebel XT produces the color more accurate to my eyes. My D70 produces slightly warm pictures and I like it. But the color from Rebel XT is still more accurate still (at least on my cameras).
6) Canon lenses collection is more extensive that Nikon (subjective here). I like that Canon update most of their lenses to have USM and have very good quality lenses at reasonable price (17-40L or 70-200 f/4 L can be obtained for about $600 each and produces very sharp pictures). Qualities from both Canon and Nikon lenses IMO are comparable (they both very good, on the top of the field).
D70 is better in:
1) Design -> I always like Nikon design. The D70 feel right in my hands and the control is a little bit easier to adjust than Rebel XT. But once you learn how to use the cameras, they both are very good. I still like D70 more than Rebel XT in this regard.
2) Kit Lenses -> The 18-70 AF-S is better than the 18-55 EF-S II. The D70 kit lenses is sharper and focus faster. But this is to be expected from comparing $250 lenses (18-70 AF-S) to a $100 lenses (18-55 EF-S II).
3) Spot Metering -> I find this useful for certain situations. On the Rebel XT, you don't have spot metering.
4) Flash Sync 1/500 -> This can be useful sometime if you cannot freeze frame at 1/200 but relatively minor, at least to me.
5) LCD on the D70 is brighter than that of Rebel XT. But the LCD on my D70 also flicker a little bit. Keep in mind that you may not see the flickering because everyone eyes are different. It worths noting that I find the LCD on the D70 shows inaccurate color. The images show on the D70 lcd appear more contrasty than the real images on my calibrated monitors. The LCD on the Rebel XT, while dimmer produces relatively accurate color. In the end, I ignore the color on my D70 lcd (mainly use it for histogram)
That's pretty much sum up my experiences with both.
MM
May be true, but Canno does it really well. We just get close perfect pictures right out from the camera.
Digic-2 is the name of the processor, not any algorithm or algorithm set in the camera FW if you did nit know that.
And silky smooth refer the the low noise artefact free pics we get from 350D, then yep, Canon has silky smooth pics. Perhaps a bit opposite to the "film grain" pics Nikon people seems to refer - and sometimes prefer.
I personally prefer good pic out from the camera, and even more if those come with minimum amount of setting or post processing work.
Digic-2 is the name of the processor, not any algorithm or algorithm set in the camera FW if you did nit know that.
And silky smooth refer the the low noise artefact free pics we get from 350D, then yep, Canon has silky smooth pics. Perhaps a bit opposite to the "film grain" pics Nikon people seems to refer - and sometimes prefer.
I personally prefer good pic out from the camera, and even more if those come with minimum amount of setting or post processing work.
Nick,
already forgotten we just went through the 1/500s flash sync "benefits". Just to remind you
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13652800
And I'm very much astonished you still think the number of custom flags is a benefit - after so many times this single topic has been risen. Just to consider you use CFs to set the focus point, while in Canon we use dedicated button+dial or alternative the 4-way button set to control the AF point we want to use. Just wondering ...
already forgotten we just went through the 1/500s flash sync "benefits". Just to remind you
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13652800
And I'm very much astonished you still think the number of custom flags is a benefit - after so many times this single topic has been risen. Just to consider you use CFs to set the focus point, while in Canon we use dedicated button+dial or alternative the 4-way button set to control the AF point we want to use. Just wondering ...
Greg Morrison
Well-known member
Thanks for the comparison. You're very lucky to have two excellent cameras at your disposal.
NickMJr
Senior Member
That is not the case as ISO is efects both ambient lighting and flash lighting. While the Total exposure value EV is the same but very much a different mixture of lighiting ratio 1/500s is a clear difference as it reduces have the ambient light and thus allowing a less Flash to compensate. With 1/200s the ambiend is much brighter thats the flash will wash out the colors.
See my link below there a big difference in color.
http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/500xsync.htm
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http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M
YellowBullet
Senior Member
I don't really understand what you're trying to say, but the ambient light is EXACTLY the same if you shoot 1/500s ISO200 or 1/200s ISO100 1/3 stop smaller aperture. EXACTLY the same.
The amount of fill flash will of course depend on your camera metering and on your FEC, but (except for the DOF which will be very slightly larger in the second case) you should be able to get an identical picture.
NickMJr
Senior Member
Did you see the difference in the link? Same Exposure value yet different lighting mixture it was even the same aperature. The first pic had clearly better lighiten mixture with much better results. The following is a thread regarding 1/500s
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1034&message=13652991
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http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M
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