D70/D50 VS Rebel XT (First DSLR Purchase)

They knew I was not buying from them, but that I was signed up for there D70 and CLS classes.

Ethics comes from knowing all the facts before you judge.
Clearly you lack that.

--
John say's H.S. Football Photography is my hobby.
My wife is my passion

D70 + Kit Lens
70-300 ED
80-200 2.8 VR
CoolPix 8700
Coolpix 5600
Woverine 20 GB

http://www.TartarFootball.Com
 
Michael said:

Sorry, IF you have no intention of buying from them, that's not a very fair thing to do. Going to one store and using their time and expertise to make a decision and then buying from a cheaper source isn't ethical.
They knew I was not buying from them, but that I was signed up for
there D70 and CLS classes.
Ethics comes from knowing all the facts before you judge.
Clearly you lack that.
Jschizas:

I didn't know enough about your situation, I was simply asking the OP to be mindful of his actions. I said "IF" (with added emphasis), as in a hypothetical situation. Your post prompted a discussion about acting fairly. Did I say anything about you specifically? I apologize if I made you feel attacked, but you did misread my post and YOU judged ME unfairly.

Michael
 
What???

Resolution, sharpness and acutance are concepts totally different and you have to reinforce them.

Resolution of a digital image is about how many pixels it contains, thats why the XT has more resolution than the D70 and 300D. (8Mps vs 6MPs)......it doesnt mean the XT has better image quality than the D70....it's only about "size".....

Acutance is defined as the measure of sharpness at the edge of the image

About sharpening, plz read this link

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Digital_Imaging/Sharpening_01.htm

Also you should check this link and see by yourself the 350D is softer than the 300D + Kit lens....

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/rebelxt_samples.html

The 300D has better acutance than the XT and if the D70 beats the 300D, so the D70 should be sharper than the XT :).....but sharpness depends on "the optical and software sharpness"

Regards,
I'm only going by the independent, objective tests. They all show
that 300D and D70 are about the same in sharpness and resolution
(with good lenses on both, of course), and that 350D is slightly
better than both.
 
350XT does not have..........

1,005 pixel Metering....
Silly argument, since the XT has better exposure than the D70/D70s anyway
Spot Metering.......
Partial works fine. I've never needed spot metering, and neither has most people.
1/8000s shutter speed....
1/4000 and ISO 100 = 1/8000 and ISO 200. Oh that's right, you forgot the D70 doesn't have ISO 100. 1/4000 is fast enough to freeze any action you could conceivably shoot.
Wireless i-TTL Flash...
Don't need it.
1/500s Flash Sync.....
Ok feature but not really needed either for most people.
25 custom features... (350XT has only 9)
Amongst those 25 are a lot of stuff that the XT has too, just not set as custom feature.

As for features, the D70/D50 is missing a couple the XT has. Like mirror lockup which is very nice whenever you take long exposures.
1 less command dails than the D70..
And the XT is just as easy to use. I've used both extensively.
Custom Curves
Heard of postprocessing? If I wanted a lot of in-camera processing done, I'd get a P&S.
 
6mp is the same as 8mp - its only a 15% difference that you can't
tell by eye.
LOL, nope it's not. 8 MP is 30% more resolution since it is measured in area, not in a single dimension. The 15% comes from a misconception/myth propagated in MP envy (Think it was started by that nutcase Ken Rockwell). The extra 30% is very handy when you want to get close to objects, like when shooting wildlife. You can crop significantly closer.
 
6mp =3000 x 2000

8mp =3465 x 2310

465 more pixels on the longest side... now tell me are you going to see a difference in that at an 8x10?
--
'Where does the film go in my digital camera?'
 
I'm sure nikon
had the capability to up the mp to 8 (look at the D2X) but decided
not to for the reasons mentioned above.
Nope, they don't make the sensors themselves, and the ones they could get were too expensive. So reserved for the higher end models.
They decided to improve on an already good design with a larger
screen and better autofocus (that can now be obtained through a
firmware upgrade).
The D70s is a joke. It's just a D70 with a marginally larger LCD screen (but with same number of pixels) and some changes in the AF firmware. Not worth any increase in price, and certainly not the price they are asking.
 
6mp =3000 x 2000

8mp =3465 x 2310

465 more pixels on the longest side... now tell me are you going to
see a difference in that at an 8x10?
--
'Where does the film go in my digital camera?'
Like I said, you don't measure resolution on one axis. You measure it in area. 30% is 30%. Who uses a dSLR to just print out in 8x10 without cropping???
 
I TOTALLY disagree. Being 'serious' about photography has a lot
more to do with your willingness to learn technique, to look at
others' work, and to be critical of your work than it does with
which camera you use. People who like classifying each other based
on what they own are simply buying into (pun intended)
corporations' attempts to brand you. "Buy this and it will say
that about you." I've seen exceptional portrait exhibits done
with disposable cameras and I've seen people taking pictures of
their pet dog with a D2X. Once the equipment is acceptable, it's
the user that matters. Both the Xt and the D70 are acceptable.
It's a different story for pros which have requirements that I
don't: Lockable controls, sealed construction, etc.
I agree with you - photography is a LOT more about technique than about your camera. If you notice the first line of my post I said either camera is very good. I happen to prefer the D70 to the Rebel XT because I (me, myself) can access the controls easier therefore giving me more control and an easier ability to adjust my technique. The XT has a huge advantage in that you can get a battery grip for it. But I feel it is a design flaw that you should have to wade through menus to change a lot of the settings on the XT. This is why the 20D is so great. I have preference to one brand over the other - just one camera over another. I use whatever gets the job done properly.

I'm glad you pointed out that the camera doesn't matter though. Thanks for agreeing.

--
'Where does the film go in my digital camera?'
 
Thanks to help me with this copy-paste explanation.
These cameras are close, with the Nikon being slightly better then
the 300D, and prolly about equal with the 350D. From Phils review
of the D70.

About noise:

"Visually a very similar performance, although looking at the split
out RGB crops you can see that the pattern of noise is quite
different at higher ISO's. At ISO 1600 the 300D's noise pattern is
quite large and blotchy, the D70 with much finer more granular
noise."

"It's clear that there really is very little visible difference
between the noise levels of these two cameras. At ISO 1600 the D70
perhaps a little better than the 300D by keeping color noise to a
minimum (its noise being more monochromatic). The other thing to
consider is that both of these cameras in their default state have
slightly different tone curves, the 300D being more contrasty. It's
fair to say that both cameras are completely usable up to their
highest sensitivity (ISO 1600) and are cleanest from ISO 400
downwards, the 300D with its silky smooth ISO 100 would perhaps be
able to produce cleaner images in good light."

Compared to 300 d Color:

The first thing you notice is the difference in color balance
between the two cameras, in this respect the D70 is more accurate,
the EOS 300D's image looking warmer than it did in real life, the
D70's greys are almost perfectly grey. The D70's colors also look
slightly more saturated than the 300D. For absolute resolution it's
very close, although there are definitely some areas of the image
where the D70 has resolved more detail (and appears sharper) than
the EOS 300D. To counter that we do have a little moiré appearing
in the D70 image (although really nothing that spoils the
appearance of the image).

One notable difference is that the D70's sharpening algorithm
appears to be better than that of the EOS 300D, there are almost no
visible sharpening halos in the D70 image, there are some in the
EOS 300D image.

Lastly there does appear to be some noise visible in the sky of the
D70 image (approx. 1.75 std dev), less so in the EOS 300D image
(approx. 1.10 std dev) this is consistent with our ISO noise
measurements presented earlier in this review. Remember that the
EOS 300D does offer ISO 100 which will deliver even cleaner images
with virtually no visible noise.

Sharpness:

at iso 200:

As you look down each of the crops it's very much a tit for tat
situation, in some crops the D70 appears to produce more detail and
sharpness and the next the EOS 300D does a better job. It is very
close, overall and considering the 300D's vertical resolution
advantage (48 more vertical pixels) I would say that the D70 is
slightly sharper. It also has a better sharpening algorithm (as
mentioned on the previous page) which leads to a cleaner image with
fewer halo type artifacts. To counter that however the EOS 300D
image looks cleaner with less visible noise on the ruler and watch
face crops. The EOS 300D's darker blacks do give the impression of
a 'punchier' image but this is simply a difference in tone curve
and could easily be achieved with a different parameter setting on
the D70.

At 1600 ISO

At this high sensitivity it's fairly clear to see that both cameras
automatically decrease their sharpening to an attempt to keep
visible noise down. Again its very close, both cameras performing
fairly similarly, if anything I would say that the D70's images are
more preferable because its noise is more even throughout the color
channels and appears as monochromatic 'grain' rather than the color
blotches seen in the EOS 300D image (which is also more difficult
to remove later). Kudos to Nikon then.
 
Which settings do you feel you have to wade through menus to set?

Aperture, shutterspeed, AF mode, ISO, metering and a customisable function like quality can all be accessed by a single short cut button. I've used both the D70 and the XT, and I actually prefer the XT's ergonomics. Especially the fact that the function LCD is placed on top of the D70 makes it practically useless in my opinion and it's icons are unintuitive etc.
 
I'm sure nikon
had the capability to up the mp to 8 (look at the D2X) but decided
not to for the reasons mentioned above.
Nope, they don't make the sensors themselves, and the ones they
could get were too expensive. So reserved for the higher end models.
They decided to improve on an already good design with a larger
screen and better autofocus (that can now be obtained through a
firmware upgrade).
The D70s is a joke. It's just a D70 with a marginally larger LCD
screen (but with same number of pixels) and some changes in the AF
firmware. Not worth any increase in price, and certainly not the
price they are asking.
Actually I though the joke was on the Canon 300D as it was crippled by Canon. However Nikon at least respects there cutsomers by improving the D100 to make the D70 and reduced the price too. Then when they came out with the D70s they gave us a firmward upgrade. Also Nikon does not give you a crappy Kit lens, now where is the Joke?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M
 
when i reading all this post form people i notice that people who talk about nikon/canon "best camera" that they don't see good point of nikon camera (or canon) but they see a different point what is good and bad feature...that only explain that every one have different wish how camera should look and work...

so stop count good and bad features... for me is good to have 1/500s Flash Syn , and you maybe don't need this becouse you don't have it on your XT/350D...for you is very useful function MLU , but i don't need it becouse i don't have it on D70... bla bla bla
350XT does not have..........

1,005 pixel Metering....
Silly argument, since the XT has better exposure than the D70/D70s
anyway
Spot Metering.......
Partial works fine. I've never needed spot metering, and neither
has most people.
1/8000s shutter speed....
1/4000 and ISO 100 = 1/8000 and ISO 200. Oh that's right, you
forgot the D70 doesn't have ISO 100. 1/4000 is fast enough to
freeze any action you could conceivably shoot.
Wireless i-TTL Flash...
Don't need it.
1/500s Flash Sync.....
Ok feature but not really needed either for most people.
25 custom features... (350XT has only 9)
Amongst those 25 are a lot of stuff that the XT has too, just not
set as custom feature.

As for features, the D70/D50 is missing a couple the XT has. Like
mirror lockup which is very nice whenever you take long exposures.
1 less command dails than the D70..
And the XT is just as easy to use. I've used both extensively.
Custom Curves
Heard of postprocessing? If I wanted a lot of in-camera processing
done, I'd get a P&S.
 
great thread!! this topic has never been tackled before. i cant
wait to see what kinds of answers you will get. this should be new
ground for all of us.

thank you!!
Its funnu how a a guy who is named "EOSguy" seems to have more threads on the Nikon site than the Canon site.

"If is Look like a Troll and if it sounds like a Troll then it must be a TROLL."

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M
 
6mp =3000 x 2000

8mp =3465 x 2310

465 more pixels on the longest side... now tell me are you going to
see a difference in that at an 8x10?
--
'Where does the film go in my digital camera?'
Like I said, you don't measure resolution on one axis. You measure
it in area. 30% is 30%. Who uses a dSLR to just print out in 8x10
without cropping???
i'm aslo asking myself where did you get 30% ????
 
6mp =3000 x 2000

8mp =3465 x 2310

465 more pixels on the longest side... now tell me are you going to
see a difference in that at an 8x10?
--
'Where does the film go in my digital camera?'
Like I said, you don't measure resolution on one axis. You measure
it in area. 30% is 30%. Who uses a dSLR to just print out in 8x10
without cropping???
i'm aslo asking myself where did you get 30% ????
Heh, no the interesting question is how on earth people can come up with 15%. You can't just take one axis and say it's 15% longer and therefore the resolution is 15% higher. A picture isn't 1 dimensional. Area is measured in total number of pixels. 8 MP is 33% more area than 6 MP. It's ~ 30% when you look at the real dimensions though.
 

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