D70/D50 VS Rebel XT (First DSLR Purchase)

Hi all,

I am a long time reader, first time poster. I find the various info and opinions here on DPreview very helpful, Thanks.

I would appreciate any and all opinions on what to purchase as my first DSLR camera. I presently own a Nikon Coolpix 7900 and I am ready for my first DSLR. Which Camera should I purchase? and what is more important? CCD vs CMOS, 8.0 MP VS 6.3 etc... in the end I just want a tool I can enjoy and learn on. I did notice that I didnt really care for the feel of the Canon XT, However I liked the specs. The upcoming D50 sounds very promising, SD card etc, but stiil only 6.3 mp I wonder why? anyway, any knowledgable opinions are welcomed and appreciated... I know that a post like this is very subjective, but being a novice I was curious as to which camera I am better suited for...

Thank you...

IMO, you should read more about the lens avail. for the two DSLR. if Nikon got more better lens and got better review than Canon does, then go for Nikon. The body just costs you $800-900, but the lens will eventually cost you up to $2500.

--
John
Digital rules

I'm in the same boat and so far I think that Canon has more lenses that fit my need/wants. To be specific the 17-85 IS and 70-300 IS DO.

There have already been a lot of posts on this subject, so if you want to read all that's been said, I suggest you do a search on both the appropriate Nikon and Canon forums.

I had to decide between both of these excellent cameras as well. To me, it came down to the following:

Nikon D70 - Much better kit lens, better build quality in the body, very good metering, but slightly inferior sensor (no ISO 100, slightly noiser images at high ISO) and a larger form factor (I couldn't imagine carrying it around on a regular basis which is something I wanted to do but may not be important to you).

Rebel XT - Inferior kit lens, slightly worse build quality (but still put together very well), annoyingly small grip, but an excellent sensor (very clean images from ISO 100-800). Its small size also means I bring it along even for walks around the block - that's let me take some of my favorite shots that I would have otherwise missed.

I chose the XT and have no regrets whatsoever but I think I would have been just as happy with the D70. Both are excellent cameras and I'm sure you'll be very happy with either. Even for those with photography experience, there is a bit of learning curve with DSLRs, but make sure you have fun!

Michael

Thanks Michael, I appreciate your insights...

"There have already been a lot of posts on this subject, so if you want to read all that's been said, I suggest you do a search on both the appropriate Nikon and Canon forums.

I had to decide between both of these excellent cameras as well. To me, it came down to the following:

Nikon D70 - Much better kit lens, better build quality in the body, very good metering, but slightly inferior sensor (no ISO 100, slightly noiser images at high ISO) and a larger form factor (I couldn't imagine carrying it around on a regular basis which is something I wanted to do but may not be important to you).

Rebel XT - Inferior kit lens, slightly worse build quality (but still put together very well), annoyingly small grip, but an excellent sensor (very clean images from ISO 100-800). Its small size also means I bring it along even for walks around the block - that's let me take some of my favorite shots that I would have otherwise missed.

I chose the XT and have no regrets whatsoever but I think I would have been just as happy with the D70. Both are excellent cameras and I'm sure you'll be very happy with either. Even for those with photography experience, there is a bit of learning curve with DSLRs, but make sure you have fun!"
Michael

You very nearly have to discard the 6.3 vs 8.0 issue. Nikon's implementation of 6.3 megapixels in CCD form nearly equals Canon's implementation of 8.0 MP in CMOS. The different engineering issues coupled with different AA-filter strengths and different noise-reduction routines obviates the advantage on paper that Canon would seem to have. Under ideal circumstances, the Canon can out-resolve the Nikon but you just don't tend to see it in practice, where the opposite seems true: Canon "smoothness" vs Nikon granularity.

Look very carefully at the ergonomics, where Nikon has an edge for most people. Look at the metering systems and the accuracy of the AF. Consider the edge Nikon has in flash. Think about whether you will ever want to go up in the system: can you more easily imagine yourself with a D2x or a 1D? Does the vast array of ultra-sharp older Nikon F-mount lenses bought cheap and used manually have any pull?

To me, any DSLR is pretty obvious hanging around my neck: I don't see where the XT would go with me where the D70 would not. There's just not enough difference there. You might disagree. Look very carefully at the ergonomics.

Reck:

Excellent points, but I like to add the following:

As you point out, the advantage in MP does not lie with resolving power. It also provides the user with the ability to crop images if they haven't been taken to satisfaction or if there isn't as much telephoto reach as desired. I don't print at 8x10 often, but where I do, there do seem to be apparent differences between my camera (8mp XT) and my friend's (6mp original Digital Rebel). I wouldn't want to give up that resolution.

reck said:

Look very carefully at the ergonomics, where Nikon has an edge for
most people. Look at the metering systems and the accuracy of the
AF.

Click to expand...

I'll give you the nod on those. In general, Canon seems to have quicker AF but in my experience, it has been less consistent than Nikon's implementation.

reck said:

To me, any DSLR is pretty obvious hanging around my neck: I don't
see where the XT would go with me where the D70 would not.

Click to expand...

Maybe you're just tougher! I use holster cases. I feel a difference between my F601 (which I guess is roughly the size of the D70) and the XT. It's not big, but enough so that I hardly ever carried my F601 around unless I had a clear reason to whereas I carry the XT almost everywhere. For me, it's not a huge quantitative difference but it is enough of a qualitative one.

reck said:

Look very carefully at the ergonomics.

Click to expand...

Yup, I'll give the nod to Nikon there too. As I said, Nikon has the better body and kit lens, Canon has the better sensor.

As for Canon's reputation for smoothness, I think that's a matter of taste. Some people like buttery smooth images (Canon) while others prefer very accurate (but perhaps blander) images (Nikon). Most of this difference seems to be a matter of in-camera processing and easily changeable. I haven't played with Nikon's RAW format, but I know that I post process my Canon images so they end up looking somewhere in-between Canon and Nikon's implementation.

Michael

psychmike said:

Reck:

Excellent points, but I like to add the following:

As you point out, the advantage in MP does not lie with resolving
power. It also provides the user with the ability to crop images
if they haven't been taken to satisfaction or if there isn't as
much telephoto reach as desired. I don't print at 8x10 often, but
where I do, there do seem to be apparent differences between my
camera (8mp XT) and my friend's (6mp original Digital Rebel). I
wouldn't want to give up that resolution.

Click to expand...

you must know that D70 has much better sharpnes and resolution like 300D have. so the pictures are sharper than in 300D

psychmike said:

psychmike said:

Look very carefully at the ergonomics, where Nikon has an edge for
most people. Look at the metering systems and the accuracy of the
AF.

Click to expand...

I'll give you the nod on those. In general, Canon seems to have
quicker AF but in my experience, it has been less consistent than
Nikon's implementation.

psychmike said:

To me, any DSLR is pretty obvious hanging around my neck: I don't
see where the XT would go with me where the D70 would not.

Click to expand...

Maybe you're just tougher! I use holster cases. I feel a
difference between my F601 (which I guess is roughly the size of
the D70) and the XT. It's not big, but enough so that I hardly
ever carried my F601 around unless I had a clear reason to whereas
I carry the XT almost everywhere. For me, it's not a huge
quantitative difference but it is enough of a qualitative one.

psychmike said:

Look very carefully at the ergonomics.

Click to expand...

Yup, I'll give the nod to Nikon there too. As I said, Nikon has
the better body and kit lens, Canon has the better sensor.

As for Canon's reputation for smoothness, I think that's a matter
of taste. Some people like buttery smooth images (Canon) while
others prefer very accurate (but perhaps blander) images (Nikon).
Most of this difference seems to be a matter of in-camera
processing and easily changeable. I haven't played with Nikon's
RAW format, but I know that I post process my Canon images so they
end up looking somewhere in-between Canon and Nikon's
implementation.

Michael

Click to expand...

you must go and try them in person. they are so close in features that you should either get the one with the features leaning toward the type of photography you want to shoot or focus on ergonomics, like i am.
--
i use a mac.

Modified General Question:

IF it were you buying your first DSLR camera knowing what you know now, which one would buy and why...

--
Gracefully wild . . .



Panorama by Olympus Camedia C-750UZ, more at http://rhavecilla.fotopic.net

When I was buying (about a month Ago) my local camera store spent an hour with me.

as I have the 8700, and 5600, the first thing they said was "your used to Nikon's menu's and functions, do you want to learn again"

Second was "Pick it up! What feels right to you"

Third was "What is your primary use?"

Ended up hands down D70, Kit Lens and 70-200 2.8 VR fit me and my needs the best.

Go to the store, even if you don't buy from them (I didn't) and do these things, and think these things.

Don't let a bias magazine or Owner of one or the other decide for you.

Remember if you buying expensive lenses now or in the future your probably going to stay with that brand just to keep your lenses.

Have fun, make the right choice for you, and welcome to the family...

--
John say's H.S. Football Photography is my hobby.
My wife is my passion

D70 + Kit Lens
70-300 ED
80-200 2.8 VR
CoolPix 8700
Coolpix 5600
Woverine 20 GB

http://www.TartarFootball.Com

jschizas said:

Go to the store, even if you don't buy from them (I didn't) and do
these things, and think these things.

Click to expand...

Sorry, IF you have no intention of buying from them, that's not a very fair thing to do. Going to one store and using their time and expertise to make a decision and then buying from a cheaper source isn't ethical.

When you go into that first store, the staff is helping you with the reasonable expectation that they may be making a sale. To that end, they are willing to invest their time and resources (overheard, wages, inventory). If you told them upfront, "I won't be buying from you, but I'd like your help", what do you think they'd say? It's not a library you know.

Stores that offer good service are hard to find and people who act selfishly instead of suppoting these places make them increasingly hard to find. In my opinion, paying a premium for good service is well worth it. I've had the odd equipment problem and I appreciate the excellent service I received. Far better than places that don't remember you the second you leave the door.

Michael

--
Of all things i've lost, i miss my mind the most.

drejc said:

you must know that D70 has much better sharpnes and resolution like
300D have. so the pictures are sharper than in 300D

Click to expand...

I'm not comparing the D70 with the 300D. I don't have the 300D. As far as the XT goes, I concede no such point. Sharpness is affected by an AA filter, in-camera sharpening and the lens used. So what exactly are you comparing? If you're comparing the kit lenses, I agree, but that has more to do with the lens than the sensor. Give me some numbers.

Michael

Just a quick response to your ethics question. Customer service is a combination of helpfulness and price plus overall service quality.

I also go into photo shops which are helpful, I never go back to one which isn't. I also don't buy from them. I also go into more than one as they have different expertise and try out equipment in different "helpful" shops.

Went it comes to the point of purchase I tend to go back to the one which has been most helpful, discuss with them the best price I have found and see if they are willing to drop their price to something reasonable.

Most good shops are.

--
Bluenose

350XT does not have..........

1,005 pixel Metering....
Spot Metering.......
1/8000s shutter speed....
Wireless i-TTL Flash...
1/500s Flash Sync.....
25 custom features... (350XT has only 9)
1 less command dails than the D70..
Custom Curves

Just to name a few

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M

NickMJr said:

350XT does not have..........

Click to expand...

Fine, and your is bigger than mine. If one camera were so clearly better than another, I think the market would reflect that, but clearly this isn't the case. The fact is, they are DIFFERENT with DIFFERENT strengths and DIFFERENT limitations. I've always said that the Nikon has the better kit lens and body, but the Canon (IMHO) has the better sensor. I would be just as happy with the D70.

What's the problem with pluralism? One's got to be better than the other right?

NickMJr said:

1,005 pixel Metering....

Click to expand...

Speak about metering accuracy, not features. I like Nikon's metering implementation, but it doesn't acutally use 1005 pixels y'know. It clusters them.

NickMJr said:

Spot Metering.......

Click to expand...

Yup, a nice thing to have and I wish the Xt had one. However, I've had absoltely no problems with my XT's metering. If you have a basic understanding of metering and photography, it's easy to anticipate most problems and to deal with them.

NickMJr said:

1/8000s shutter speed....

Click to expand...

Because that's SO much faster than 1/4000. Yup, one stop. Most of the time, I use a fast shutter to shoot wide open, not to stop action. An ND filter does as well.

NickMJr said:

Wireless i-TTL Flash...

Click to expand...

Don't use it.

NickMJr said:

1/500s Flash Sync.....

Click to expand...

Nice feature.

NickMJr said:

25 custom features... (350XT has only 9)

Click to expand...

This is problematic. WHAT features are you referring to SPECIFICALLY? Some Nikon CFs are available directly with buttons on the XT. It doesn't mean that the Nikon has more useful features, it simply means that you have to program them in instead of having them directly accessible.

NickMJr said:

1 less command dails than the D70..

Click to expand...

Again a good feature.

NickMJr said:

Custom Curves

Click to expand...

Fine, do all you post processing in-camera.

psychmike said:

psychmike said:

Wireless i-TTL Flash...

Click to expand...

Don't use it.

Click to expand...

That right cause you can't without buying an add-on master to your hotshoe.

psychmike said:

psychmike said:

25 custom features... (350XT has only 9)

Click to expand...

This is problematic. WHAT features are you referring to
SPECIFICALLY? Some Nikon CFs are available directly with buttons
on the XT. It doesn't mean that the Nikon has more useful
features, it simply means that you have to program them in instead
of having them directly accessible.

Click to expand...

It is well documented from Review's including this site that there are many more features availible on the D70 with direct control like a buttom press and one of two dail controls. Many review complained that the 350XT is too much menu driven, to me living is sunny Florida is a draw back in direct sunlight. There is very few reasons you have to change a setting on the D70 using the menu just push the right button and turn the command or subcommand button and you can clearly see the changes on the top LCD that is uneffected by direct sunlight.

psychmike said:

psychmike said:

Custom Curves

Click to expand...

Fine, do all you post processing in-camera.

Click to expand...

Actually Canon's does more processing in camera than Nikon its called Digic-II, which is my opinion, what Canon calls "silky smooth" to me is way over processed and overly saturated. I prefer to be incontrol of processing 100%

-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~nickmjr/
Nick M

You've pretty much answered your own question. If you don't like the way the XT feels, then you're not going to enjoy using it. This is the most important factor of all when choosing between cameras of similar capabilities. I did go with the XT myself simply because I wanted a light, compact and stealthy camera. For my particular criteria the XT was the better camera. The D50 looks interesting though......