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All these new lens problems is nuts

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TimothySchlauch

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Hello everyone......

I see a big problems with brand new lenses, having problems right from the makers new.

When so many people, will pay close to new price for used. It is time for lens makers, to worry about losing sales on high end and high priced lenses. So many people paying out big bucks on bad copys, will not keep going on because few people will buy them as word keeps getting out.

This problems goes for all makers, and at all levels of their lenses. But when people pay big bucks and get a bad copy, it gets around fast and it happening way to much.

The QC is very bad, and add to that they don't seal them. The fix is smiple though, they need to start having real people QC them, then seal them up after they pass. This adds little cost, and is needed to stop this madness.

People need to know, they was checked before shipping them out. And they need to know, a dealer didn't give them some one elses returns. It's great they want to get prices down, but this is not the way to cut corners. And dealers must be stopped, from selling returns as brand new.

I'm not talking about the cheapo lenes, as people know cheap means cheap. I'm talking about the high end lenses, and high cost ones where this should not be happening. I'm sure a lot of bad copys, keep being sold over and over by dealers.

How many people buy returned stuff, even when the price has been cut way down. Not that many people buy returns with other stuff, a lot of them are sold dirt cheap on ebay. When people pay for new, it should be new not a returns.

And yes I know, everyone wants to try out lenses. And if they are not what they thought, send them back and get a different one. Well then dealers need to mark it as a return, and drop the price and sell it for what it is. And charge the person sending it back, the % they have to drop it to sell it as a return.

This is very fair, and everyone gets what they pay for then. And if the lens has a problems, makers need to take them back from dealers. And fix them and sell them a refarbs, this is the way it's done for everything else. This would put a stop to this madness, and give everyone a fair deal.

Truefully, how many here would buy a return at full price. If a dealer put you may get a return, when you buy one new. I'm willing to live with a new lens, and if I just can't live with it take some lose. But when I buy new, I did not want anyone else messing with it, then sold to me as new again.

I don't trust other people with my stuff, how many of you would loan out your lens. For others to try it out, not many of you I'm sure. And if you would, well loan me some of your L glass. So I can try it out, I'll pay the shipping both ways. Any takers here ?

Ok I'll get off my soap box now, I just had to get this off my cheast. I want to buy higher end lenses, but I'm very worried about getting a bad copy or returns. At this point, buying a used one that been tested good don't look so bad. It a shame isn't it, because I really want a brand new one.....
--
T.A. Schlauch

http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=169695

 
99% of the problem with lenses are the nut/nuts behind the viewfinder.
 
I thought the same thing until I had to return my 100mm Macro lens because it was too soft (new one was great).

I also had to send my 70-200 f/4L in for calibration.

I think the problems are real and wide spread.
 
Stop hiding behind the "user error" guise - too many over and over seeing the same things.

Wendy
 
I can imagine storeowners trying to stay on top of all this. Yikes...

And I'm not sure I would catch a problem right away myself anyway. So that is a worry of mine when purchasing. Especially buying online. Last week I payed 15% more to a local store so I didn't have to risk remailing or possibly getting a bad one from a dealer I don't know. As it was, I did indeed have to return a 80-400 Tokina, as it wouldn't autofocus at all. Man, I was glad it was a store close by, and the time factor too.

My guess is manufacturing is probably not as strong as the past because of the millions of buyers now, in need of mass production. You can only have so many talented, trained idividuals. It's gotta be out of control in producability.
--



http://netgarden.smugmug.com/
DSC V1 Sony, Mavica FD88, Fuji s5000, Canon 20D
 
wendyorg said:
Stop hiding behind the "user error" guise - too many over and over
seeing the same things.

Wendy
Click to expand...
I have recently bought two lenses and tried 4 additional lenses (all different types and brands) and have not had one issue. Focus is fast and images are sharp (even at large apertures).

Here is what I think:
  • People use these forums for venting
  • People jumping on the bandwagon w/o actual lens experience
  • Sometimes it is user error
  • Using large apertures for scenes
  • Not focusing to hyperfocal
  • Focusing outside of the specified focusing distance (especially on long lenses)
  • Sometimes its actually body problems.
  • You only hear about people having problems
The thing that always gets me is the person who says it took them 3 or more lenses to get a good one. This is just statistically not possible....

I plan to continue to buy lenses online (eg B&H) without any fear of "bad copies".
 
Mmmmm ...

Lucky you

Out of the last five lenses I bought. Two were duff. One a Tamron. One a Sigma. Neither was particularly cheap.

Yes, there are squeaky wheels on forums. That's can be distracting.

However, that's absolutely no justification for implying that the vast majority of people with equipment issues are idiots.

Lines like this also make me wince ...
wrx_sti said:
The thing that always gets me is the person who says it took them 3
or more lenses to get a good one. This is just statistically not
possible....
Click to expand...
What on Earth do statistics have to do with it? If there is a glitch in production of any item it is more than possible that an entire batch may have problems. In that situation swopping out three lenses might mean that the buyer finally gets a unit from another batch.

Alternatively loose production tolerances might mean a wide range of quality is produced and the buyer is only happy until he finds a copy belonging to the top end of the quality distribution

Alternatively, the buyer might be an idiot but he deserves an open minded hearing before judging him.

--
Stef
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stefz/sets/192515/
http://stefzucconi.blogspot.com/
 
Sorry, I disagree.

The first and only Tokina lens I bought had a consistent front focus problem. It was a 28-80/2.8 ATX Pro, used with my film camera. At 80mm the focus problem was obvious. Sharp focus could be achieved by manual focus. I performed a controlled test against my 28-105 USM, and the problem was confirmed. I returned it.

However, I must say that I have never faced a single focus problem with any canon lens I've used / bought over the past decade or so.
Jerry 39 said:
99% of the problem with lenses are the nut/nuts behind the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
 
Have just got a 350D & boy all these problems with lens selection. Got a Sigma 100-300 F4 APO intially cause I needed to shoot some sports, got lucky, seems to be ok.

Was leaning to getting a Sigma 18-125 or 18-200 just for starters but with all these front/back focus problems, I'm not game now!!! I will be so p####d off if I get any bad lens/s (whatever I end up getting).

If I'm paying good money, I expect to get a good fault free product. Had to exchange the 350D cause it was putting strange lines on some of my images! (had good service & doing the return was no problem but had to put up with a week using less then a 100% product)

QC sucks, but if they can mass produce more product & replace the returned bad ones, then I guess there happy to wear it. Feel like we are there quality control & will weed out the bad products for them. Maybe we should get paid for doing their Q.C.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

O.K. I've vented too!
Feel better now.

--
AdrianG
 
StefZ said:
Mmmmm ...

Lucky you
Click to expand...
Me and probably 99.99+% of all other lens customers. We must be very lucky since according to these forums it would appear that you have about a 30% or less chance of getting a "good copy" on a $1500 lens. If we are to believe that Canon can run its business like this, then we should believe that Canon customers are truly a bunch of morons.
StefZ said:
Lines like this also make me wince ...
StefZ said:
The thing that always gets me is the person who says it took them 3
or more lenses to get a good one. This is just statistically not
possible....
Click to expand...
What on Earth do statistics have to do with it? If there is a
glitch in production of any item it is more than possible that an
entire batch may have problems. In that situation swopping out
three lenses might mean that the buyer finally gets a unit from
another batch.
Click to expand...
Statistics have everything to do with it (yields, field returns). You are assuming that Canon have no production testing. With so many people saying that it takes more than 1 return to get a "good copy", it would mean many "bad batches". A "bad batch" could only happen if Canon had 0 production line tests/QC.

Persistent bad copies is what I have a problem with and it points to either a bad body, incorrect use or just plain trolling. A bad copy here or there is believeable.

STi
 
With 3rd party lenses, it can be a crapshoot, because the Tamron/Sigma engineers do not have the same information as the Canon engineers when desigjning and testing their lenses. Overall however, I never had any issue with 3rd party lenses.

This forum would have you think that the odds are against you for getting a "in-spec" L-series lens. Pish-posh!
 
I somewhat agree with wrx.

Admitedly, not every lens produced works according to design. However from my observations here and through my own experience, I feel that often the perceived problems are not with the lens. Many reported issues could be because of a miscalibrated AF system in the camera, or an inexperienced tester.

Canon at least is an ISO 9001 company, and has independent manufacturing and test teams, and so the idea of getting bad batches is improbable.

Stories like that of an individual who got 7 bad copies of the 24-70L in a row are rather hard to digest. We're not taking kit lenses, but pro grade glass from a top notch manufacturer. The probabilities are absolutely minute.

Assume 1 in 2 of these lenses are bad (Canon would be bankrupt if this was the case), then this is the same as getting 7 heads in a row from 7 coin tosses. Hard to do right.

Now if we assume 95% of these lenses is good, then getting 7 bad ones in a row would be like the odds of winning a lottery.
 
Did I mention Canon?

My Canon lens purchases have worked 100% with my film and digital SLRs. if you're talking solely about Canon then I have little doubt that they are far fewer issues than with 3rd party lenses. Though I'd love to know where you get your figures from.

My personal issue is with 3rd party lenses. In addition to normal product variation issues the lens buyer bears the additional risk that the manufacturer has not reverse engineered the lens/ camera communication 100% reliably.

There are plenty of genuine examples out there of this kind of problem and blowing them off as user error is invalid.

Of course Canon could make life easier for us by granting licences to the other manufacturers but it wouldn't make life easier for Canon. I understand that. The responsibility lies with the 3rd party manufacturers. If they sell a lens as being fully EOS compatible well, it should be.

Me, if I buy a lens that doesn't focus properly, when other lenses do so on the same camera, I'll blame the manufacturer not myself.

Re. assumptions about QC. I have made fewer assumptions than you have. There are plenty of reasons why QC might fail on a given production run - operator error, change of production location, whatever. Product recalls can and do happen across industry, either through faulty design or manufacture. I see no reason to believe that the lens business is any different. Why should you?

--
Stef
http://www.flickr.com/photos/stefz/sets/192515/
http://stefzucconi.blogspot.com/
 
Since the introduction of the very first sub-$1000 DSLR, demands for lenses increased to the level that Canon could no longer implement proper QC procedures, just to meet the demand.

--
Medic
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
My quote of the month:
  • The pen is mightier than the sword, but the camera is mightier than both.
 
Entirely what the purchaser is looking for. ANYONE can shoot and shoot and shoot until an unfavorable outcome occurs and say, "Aha! See? Another BAD lens copy". There should be NO question that anyone intent on discovering flaws is inherently likely to find them.

This is not to say that any given consumer isn't entitled to satisfaction within the boundaries of the manufacturer's or seller's assurance policies; however, I find that any endeavor at which I would personally spend so much focus upon attempting to discovering such flaws instead of reacting to them should they become apparent would have long ago lost any joy or interest for me anyway.

This isn't limited to lenses. A patient beleiving that a particular medication may not be effective is likely to find that it is not. This is part of the human psyche. Sure, quality variances exist; but they could not possibly occur with either the extent or frequency the number sheer number of posts would dictate. Popular press would be the first to jump on the news opportunity of reporting "falling standards" of a given manufacturer, should their own experienced reviewers and professionals experience similar trends. I paraphrase another poster who so eloquently alluded, "99% of lens problems are behind the viewfinder."

To the thought that manufacturers somehow have an interest in releasing shoddily manufactured lenses, the labor cost of calibration and repairing serviced lenses can easily exceed their original profit margin on a single servicing. It simply isn't in their interest, period; and as the Japanese are masters of process control, testing representative production samples and proactively addressing production issues is a cornesrstone of their manufacturing philosophy. The bottom line is that it may be possible, but it just ain't likely.

As for third-party manufacturers, while their limited access to camera makers' specifications can limit their features and performance, there should be no great cause for widespread variances among lenses of the same make. While some great third-party lenses exist for EOS mounts, I suspect that any compromises come from trying to servie too many masters and designing lenses that compliment all mounts, sensors, and body variances.

E.
wrx_sti said:
With 3rd party lenses, it can be a crapshoot, because the
Tamron/Sigma engineers do not have the same information as the
Canon engineers when desigjning and testing their lenses. Overall
however, I never had any issue with 3rd party lenses.

This forum would have you think that the odds are against you for
getting a "in-spec" L-series lens. Pish-posh!
Click to expand...
 
I have purchashed a total of 4 Canon lenses, two had problems. Maybe I just have bad luck.

I had to return a 100mm USM macro lens because the results were terrible and incredibly soft. My new one is great, no problems at all.

My 70-200 f/4L had to be recalibrated. It works fine now.

I bet it is about 50/50.

50% of people experience user error, while about 50% of the complainers are legit due to bad QC. Just a thought.
 
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