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Women and the new Kodaks...

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Be careful here - the naturally risk averse nature of people in the mass market media means that the marketing is competing only with other equally mindless advertising.

If someone were to demonstrate the success of a campaign based on an entirely different premise, capitalism would ensure that within 6 months every other ad was almost identical...
George said:
krusadr said:
Women are constantly bombarded by stupid commercials that makes
women look so dumb: [snip]
I don't know what to say really. You don't hear too many women
complaining about it.
Click to expand...
From another viewpoint, if marketing companies keep using such
advs, this means that they have statistically documented their
effectiveness!
regards,
George
Click to expand...
 
The job of product advertising is to get noticed, and get over to as many potential customers as possible the USPs of the product as simply as possible, and to make sure they remember the product/brand name. To do this advertising agencies (us so called "creatives") sometimes adopt strange tactics, particularly in a crowded market with alot of confusing and competing similar-sounding and similar-looking products from which they need to differentiate.

Humor, sometimes overt, sometimes tongue-in-cheek, is a good method. So is surprise. So is controversy. Please credit both the advertising and the audience with a bit more sophistication and intelligence than saying they're simply relying on (or living up/down to) cultural and sexual stereotypes.

Men read the Kodak ad, women read the Kodak ad. They take in the information, not necessarily buying hook line and sinker into the stereotype. The lipstick and handbag references are there to raise a smile, to get noticed, to make the information more memorable.

If I think back on what camera ads I remember and why, do you know what tops the list? A Pentax ad for the K2, must be 25 years ago now. Why? because its opening spiel was so stupid, so preposterous, so hackle-raisingly irrelevant and market stereotyping, that I couldn't forget it. And that was for a serious camera.

--
IML

A camera is for life, not just for Christmas.
 
David Martin said:
Didn't mean to sound personally harsh - it is just that I seem to
have been at war for a number of years with others who in my view
are trying to determine what I should think and feel, and failure
to agree with them seems to indicate 'predjudice' to them, when
IMHO the predjudice is on the other foot, with a set of ready made,
centre-left opinions which are supposed to be the only acceptable
ones, like some ghastly Soviet art!
Click to expand...
Yah, it sure looks like I pushed a button. I hate that particular attitude myself -- I'm not one for ideological conformity or uniformity, as I'm sure you know. But sometimes the center-lefties get it right -- even if it's purely by accident. ;-)
Member said:
Interestingly, I work in an office with a lot of people in their
20's, and it seems these ideas are no longer fashionable, and women
are asserting their right to go pink and portable if they so
choose! Politically correct is pretty passe most places.
Click to expand...
I despise politically correct. I can't think of anything since Dr. Bowdler that has done so much damage to language -- it's deprived us of any number of rich and expressive words.
Member said:
What's airhead about choosing a camera that comes in hot pink? As
long as it does the job required, of course.
Click to expand...
Nothing. I've nothing against hot-pink cameras. (In fact, I think the Olympus Stylus Verves look pretty cool in different colors.) However, I do think it's rather condescending to tout hot-pink as a primary, defining characteristic of a camera.
Member said:
Most women have something better to do than adopt a faux-masculine,
trainspotter's mentality, methinks! To generalise again, the
reverse of that is guys buying the biggest, heaviest, least
portable camera they can manage, to look pro, and not carrying it
with them! A mistake most of us guys have fallen into at one time
or another, I guess.
Click to expand...
I agree, that's exactly as stupid. But then again cameras for men aren't marketed as "this beast will give you instant street cred: you'll have the look of the lean, mean picture-taking machine out to score the next Big One."

Then again, SUV's are marketed exactly like that -- and I find it rather ridiculous as well.

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]
 
And the Liberals on the bus go "wah wah wah"...

As an apparent citizen of "Boys Town" I am offended!

However, my point earlier was not that advertising can't be insulting to women (or anyone for that matter) Rather it was PS' choice of ad lines and companies to attack. Had Nikon produced these cameras and this tag line, I doubt PS would have been offended because Nikon is not an AMerican company. I know I can't prove it, but based on PS' posting history, his agenda is sorta like a dpReview version of Dan Rather or Newsweek or CNN - say anything to make America look bad. Period. So this fits that agenda. Ed of course always jumps onto the left side of the train, usually after it has left the station.

That said, there's an ad running on TV here in California that should be insulting to women. Whether there've been any complaints or not I don't know. I do know my own wife, who bailed out of a marketing career years ago because she got fed up with the BS, IS offended by the one I am about to describe while she is NOT offended by the Kodak tag line, in fact she says it makes perfect sense - most women, including her, WANT a camera that SIMPLY does what a camera should do and that's IT. Being stylish at the same time is just icing on the cake. A good example of this is the success for, what 15 or more years, of the Olympus Stylus.

Now, for the REAL offensive ad:

TV shows men in a super market filling their carts with cartons of milk, another guy breaks into the milk truck, grabs as much as he can and tosses all the money from his pocket on the seat, another man is shown carrying sackloads of milk into his front door along with a dozen red roses. THen on screen comes the trag line with a voice over (this is not an exact quote but is the gist): "Recent studies have shown that calcium can help lessen the symptoms of PMS. Got milk?"

Now, if I was a woman, I'd be offended by THAT. Thankfully for me and all mankind, I'm not.
Ed Leys said:
Ed Leys20479 said:
That's like something that's straight from the 1950's. Jeez!

Petteri
Click to expand...
Petteri,

Certainly you should know by now that all too many of the most
responsive dpreview forum members are those who assure themselves
that they are the gumdrop of social advancement...simply because
they own a digital camera. :^)

You are exactly right about the retrogradeness of the ad. But it
will be a long time before the local citizens of Boy's Town get
anything that could be mistaken for a clue.

Nevertheless, keep on keepin the faith,

Ed

--
http://www.blackmallard.com/cal_ls/
California Light and Structure

http://www.blackmallard.com/o_barn/
One Barn
Click to expand...
 
photosrme wrote:
Now, for the REAL offensive ad:
photosrme said:
TV shows men in a super market filling their carts with cartons of
milk, another guy breaks into the milk truck, grabs as much as he
can and tosses all the money from his pocket on the seat, another
man is shown carrying sackloads of milk into his front door along
with a dozen red roses. THen on screen comes the trag line with a
voice over (this is not an exact quote but is the gist): "Recent
studies have shown that calcium can help lessen the symptoms of
PMS. Got milk?"

Now, if I was a woman, I'd be offended by THAT. Thankfully for me
and all mankind, I'm not.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think the commercial you describe is hysterically funny! I am woman ( and am staight, if that matters ). Women, some more than others, do suffer from severe PMS and it can make them and those around them miserable.

I can see the humor in the ad, and some satire/sarcasm. It's funny. One need not find it offensive ( oh, maybe you men should be offended... how stupid of those men to think that milk will make everything all better).

--



http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/melaniekipp
 
Ads have always worked two ways with me. I just can't understand how they don't whith most people although I realise they don't.

The premise of advertising is that when they air an ad. if it appeals to a person they may gain custom, if it is a turn off then nothing lost. With me it just doesn't work. Neither does crass marketing tricks either (the flash animations on Oly's website for the E1 reminded me of the 'shine-molecules' on a shampoo ad). When I am bombarded by stupid ads by any particular manufacturer I rebel against that manufacturer and subconsiously boycot it.

Case in point, I will never even consider a Dodge product because the TV ads are aimed at pre-pubescent, testosterone-bound sports loving juvenilles with serious ***** envy. "Dodge, RAM, Charger, Big Tough" etc etc. Pathetic. I also observe that when I am ever tailgated aggressivly by a pickup truck it is 9 times out of ten a Dodge RAM (with a scowling, goateed, baseball-hat wearing driver). This has to my mind proved that the advertising does attract this type of immature driver.

Another example: Oxy-Clean. Those ads are so aggressive and intrusive on Tech-TV with that moronic guy shouting at the top of his voice all the way through that in the cleaning products isle I would never pickup the Oxy-Clean. It is thanks to those ads that I have discovered some great uses for Fantastik cleaner.

I really wish that the majority of people reacted to ads in the same way, it would improve standards on TV no end but it seems that most people have only positive to neutral reactions to advertising.
Ian Loveday said:
The job of product advertising is to get noticed, and get over to
as many potential customers as possible the USPs of the product as
simply as possible, and to make sure they remember the
product/brand name. To do this advertising agencies (us so called
"creatives") sometimes adopt strange tactics, particularly in a
crowded market with alot of confusing and competing
similar-sounding and similar-looking products from which they need
to differentiate.

Humor, sometimes overt, sometimes tongue-in-cheek, is a good
method. So is surprise. So is controversy. Please credit both the
advertising and the audience with a bit more sophistication and
intelligence than saying they're simply relying on (or living
up/down to) cultural and sexual stereotypes.

Men read the Kodak ad, women read the Kodak ad. They take in the
information, not necessarily buying hook line and sinker into the
stereotype. The lipstick and handbag references are there to raise
a smile, to get noticed, to make the information more memorable.

If I think back on what camera ads I remember and why, do you know
what tops the list? A Pentax ad for the K2, must be 25 years ago
now. Why? because its opening spiel was so stupid, so preposterous,
so hackle-raisingly irrelevant and market stereotyping, that I
couldn't forget it. And that was for a serious camera.

--
IML

A camera is for life, not just for Christmas.
Click to expand...
--

'Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.'
 
...but I do actually have other interests than trying to make America look bad. I don't hate America, remember?

In any case, it's clear that I've been doing something wrong lately. I've been getting into way too many scraps here, and there's currently a thread on photoSIG which appears to be largely dedicated to bashing yrs trly [ http://www.photosig.com/go/forums/read?id=223321 ].

I mean, some net.enemies are fine, but there are starting to be rather too many of them for me to handle. This is getting depressing. I'm going to try to be a good boy from now on: no politics, no brand wars, and if I really, truly feel I need to say something controversial, I'll do it on one of my two sites and not link to it from here.

[sigh]

Let's start with you, photosrme. I'm offering a truce. What would it take for you to accept?

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]
 
Petteri Sulonen said:
In any case, it's clear that I've been doing something wrong
lately. I've been getting into way too many scraps here, and
there's currently a thread on photoSIG which appears to be largely
dedicated to bashing yrs trly [
http://www.photosig.com/go/forums/read?id=223321 ].
Click to expand...
Gosh, what a lot of pretentious twaddle they write over there, and that's only in that thread!. I'd didn't even bother to take a peek at the rest of the site to ascertain how their critiquing system works, but the omens are discouraging....

The comment about DPreview having images as showcase to equipment specifications was spot on, after all that's what this site is about. They thought we'd be offended, but I didn't know that such images were inherently inferior, which just goes to demonstrate my ignorance.

I don't think I want to try and upskill and improve my creativity there, that thread suggests it's an egocentric cul de sac.

Bruce Hamilton
 
You attacked me a while ago and rather well I thought aat the time. We are all grown-ups (most people anyway) and it's all in good humour (mostly).

Stick around the place is better with you than without.
Petteri Sulonen said:
If it was only that, I probably would have. OTOH, perhaps it's good
that I didn't; I was actually spurred to re-think a few things as a
result, which can't be bad.

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]
Click to expand...
--

'Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.'
 
I accept wholeheartedly.

Your photographic wit and wisdom is well regarded by me. Your politics, .... well, there's a truce on so I'll say no more.

Personally, I know I say too much politically on this board. However, I think I can factually state that I am always responding to someone bashing Bush, the USA, Kodak etc. And, while I KNOW none of those 3 are perfect, I do take offense to it. And I will say that you are more cerebral and thoughtful with your bashing! Some others are merely knee-jerk loonies.

Have a beer on me. I'll pay up next time I'm in Helsinki ... or you're in California.
Petteri Sulonen said:
...but I do actually have other interests than trying to make
America look bad. I don't hate America, remember?

In any case, it's clear that I've been doing something wrong
lately. I've been getting into way too many scraps here, and
there's currently a thread on photoSIG which appears to be largely
dedicated to bashing yrs trly [
http://www.photosig.com/go/forums/read?id=223321 ].

I mean, some net.enemies are fine, but there are starting to be
rather too many of them for me to handle. This is getting
depressing. I'm going to try to be a good boy from now on: no
politics, no brand wars, and if I really, truly feel I need to say
something controversial, I'll do it on one of my two sites and not
link to it from here.

[sigh]

Let's start with you, photosrme. I'm offering a truce. What would
it take for you to accept?

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]
Click to expand...
 
Melanie Kipp said:
Melanie Kipp said:
TV shows men in a super market filling their carts with cartons of
milk, another guy breaks into the milk truck, grabs as much as he
can and tosses all the money from his pocket on the seat, another
man is shown carrying sackloads of milk into his front door along
with a dozen red roses. THen on screen comes the trag line with a
voice over (this is not an exact quote but is the gist): "Recent
studies have shown that calcium can help lessen the symptoms of
PMS. Got milk?"

Now, if I was a woman, I'd be offended by THAT. Thankfully for me
and all mankind, I'm not.
Click to expand...
Honestly, I think the commercial you describe is hysterically
funny!
Click to expand...
I certainly see the humor in it.
Melanie Kipp said:
I am woman ( and am staight, if that matters ).
Click to expand...
I've seen your self-photos and can only say I'm happy for your husband/boyfriend that you are. :> )
Melanie Kipp said:
Women,
some more than others, do suffer from severe PMS and it can make
them and those around them miserable.
Click to expand...
This is why I think, at least on some level, it's offensive. It's a pretty personal thing this PMS. Most women I know don't take it lightly and don't think it's something to joke about. At least they don't for about a week each month! :> )
Melanie Kipp said:
I can see the humor in the ad, and some satire/sarcasm. It's
funny. One need not find it offensive ( oh, maybe you men should
be offended... how stupid of those men to think that milk will make
everything all better).
Click to expand...
Yeah. I think the dozen roses may be a better bet!
Melanie Kipp said:
--



http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
http://www.pbase.com/melaniekipp
Click to expand...
 
Sure you lean that way and sure ... some people get a kick out of removign their toe nails.

You don't make marketing decisions based on a sample of 1, you interview hunderds of people with unbiased questions and form a marketing plan from there.
 
Sorry chicks like color and fasion. Why do you think they AREN"T represented in the sceinces and become primary scool teachers, social workers or psychotherapists instead?

As Larry Summers, president of our finest insitution of higher learning, Harvard, said: Do the math. Cause chicks cain't. Simple.

So Kodak is spot on. Hot pink anyone?
 
Ada Lovelace (Augusta Byron, Countess of Lovelace)

(1815-1852) - British - mathematician - The only legitimate daughter of Byron, the poet, her translation of an article on Charles Babbage's Analytical Engine includes notations (three-fourths of the translation!) that describe what later became known as a computer and as software. In 1980, the Ada computer language was named for her.

Charlotte Angas Scott

(1848-1931) - English, American - mathematician, educator - Raised in a supportive family that encouraged her education, Charlotte Angas Scott became the first head of the math department at Bryn Mawr College. Her work to standardize testing for college entrance resulted in the formation of the College Entrance Examination Board.

Sofia Kovalevskaya

(1850-1891) - Russian - mathematician - She escaped her parents' opposition to her advanced study by a marriage of convenience, moving from Russia to Germany and, eventually, to Sweden, where her research in mathematics included the Koalevskaya Top and the Cauchy-Kovalevskaya Theorem.

Alicia Stott

(1860-1940) - English - mathematician - She translated Platonic and Archimedean solids into higher dimensions, taking years at a time away from her career to be a homemaker.

Amalie Emmy Noether

(1882-1935) - German, Jewish, American - mathematician - Called by Albert Einstein "the most significant creative mathematical genius thus far produced since the higher education of women began,"

In the United States, 46% of the bachelor's degrees in mathematics go to women.But women earn only about 24% of the math Ph.D.'s and make up less than 6% of the full-time faculty at doctoral-granting American institutions, where fewer than 3% of them have earned tenure.
http://www.indiana.edu/~iupress/books/0-253-21119-0pr.html
dk brown said:
Sorry chicks like color and fasion. Why do you think they AREN"T
represented in the sceinces and become primary scool teachers,
social workers or psychotherapists instead?

As Larry Summers, president of our finest insitution of higher
learning, Harvard, said: Do the math. Cause chicks cain't. Simple.

So Kodak is spot on. Hot pink anyone?
Click to expand...
 
Petteri Sulonen said:
photosrme said:
I accept wholeheartedly.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Hey, if it holds, we can start discussing peace terms. ;-)
Click to expand...
In my best Churchillian baritone:

"I will accept nothing short of Unconditional Surrendah..." :> )
Petteri Sulonen said:
[snip]
Petteri Sulonen said:
Have a beer on me. I'll pay up next time I'm in Helsinki ... or
you're in California.
Click to expand...
Will do. But the second round's on me.

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]
Click to expand...
 
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