Women and the new Kodaks...

Women are constantly bombarded by stupid commercials that makes women look so dumb:

Typical Tampax ad...

"Suzy, how could you work eight hours a day and look so young and fresh and vibrant?"

Suzy: "Stay-Free maxipads!"

"Err, did you hear the question I just asked you?"

I don't know what to say really. You don't hear too many women complaining about it.

Petteri Sulonen said:

I have to say that if I was a woman, I would be offended by Kodak's
marketing spiel. "The new EASYSHARE V-Series cameras make it
incredibly simple to take and share videos and pictures, while
being chic, fashionable and small enough to slip into the newest
designer handbag." Plus more about it coming in "the season’s
hottest colors -- Absolute Pink, Red Shimmer, Midnight Black and
Silver Essence."

That's like something that's straight from the 1950's. Jeez!

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

Click to expand...

--

'Silence! What is all this insolence? You will find yourself in gladiator school vewy quickly with wotten behaviour like that.'

Kodak is not going after the hard-core "gotta-have-the-latest and greatest" photo enthusiast market; rather, they design and market their products to to the "I'd like a digital camera, but I'm afraid I don't know what I'm doing market", for this I applaud them and wish them well in the future, some people just want things as simple as possible, they don't want to debate the pro's and con's of one system vs. another, they just want to take and share digital photos with the least learning curve available.

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

snow4ever wrote:
some people just want things as

kristian2000 said:

simple as possible, they don't want to debate the pro's and con's
of one system vs. another, they just want to take and share digital
photos with the least learning curve available.

Click to expand...

I would say that is probably about 90% of the population. Not too many women are geeks either, they don't even want to marry them!, unless they are already rich like Bill Gates.

You would not want to make the mistake of thinking that the type of person on this forum is typical.

Brian

Yes, it is all very simple if you would like to put it like this.

But, there are things beyond marketing that are of interest (at least to a few people), but that is a thing you might propably not understand (I mean that it is of interest).

Just do your abc if it works for you...

David, do you seriously think that most women are airheads who buy a camera because it comes in hot pink?

Perhaps they are. In that case, I must hang out with the wrong kind of women.

I certainly didn't intend to get into a gender-issues fight, although looking back at that post it was probably unavoidable, and it would've been better not to post it. Sorry for the inconvenience everyone.

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

Didn't mean to sound personally harsh - it is just that I seem to have been at war for a number of years with others who in my view are trying to determine what I should think and feel, and failure to agree with them seems to indicate 'predjudice' to them, when IMHO the predjudice is on the other foot, with a set of ready made, centre-left opinions which are supposed to be the only acceptable ones, like some ghastly Soviet art!

Interestingly, I work in an office with a lot of people in their 20's, and it seems these ideas are no longer fashionable, and women are asserting their right to go pink and portable if they so choose! Politically correct is pretty passe most places.

What's airhead about choosing a camera that comes in hot pink? As long as it does the job required, of course.

Most women have something better to do than adopt a faux-masculine, trainspotter's mentality, methinks! To generalise again, the reverse of that is guys buying the biggest, heaviest, least portable camera they can manage, to look pro, and not carrying it with them! A mistake most of us guys have fallen into at one time or another, I guess.

Regards as always!

Petteri Sulonen said:

David, do you seriously think that most women are airheads who buy
a camera because it comes in hot pink?

Perhaps they are. In that case, I must hang out with the wrong kind
of women.

I certainly didn't intend to get into a gender-issues fight,
although looking back at that post it was probably unavoidable, and
it would've been better not to post it. Sorry for the inconvenience
everyone.

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

krusadr said:

Women are constantly bombarded by stupid commercials that makes
women look so dumb: [snip]
I don't know what to say really. You don't hear too many women
complaining about it.

Click to expand...

From another viewpoint, if marketing companies keep using such advs, this means that they have statistically documented their effectiveness!
regards,
George

I must say that I have seen better replies to a thread opener than this one, photosrme...

photosrme said:

Your real target here is America. Kodak, an American company, is
just a convenient middleman.

Take a hike.

And, BTW, if u were a woman, most men would be offended.

Petteri Sulonen said:

I have to say that if I was a woman, I would be offended by Kodak's
marketing spiel. "The new EASYSHARE V-Series cameras make it
incredibly simple to take and share videos and pictures, while
being chic, fashionable and small enough to slip into the newest
designer handbag." Plus more about it coming in "the season’s
hottest colors -- Absolute Pink, Red Shimmer, Midnight Black and
Silver Essence."

That's like something that's straight from the 1950's. Jeez!

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

acuberos said:

In a resume I consider the cameras good, but the ad not.

Click to expand...

If it's stupid but it works, it ain't stupid. Complain all you want, Kodak will be laughing all the way to the bank. And if 50s advertising style is back upon us, who are we to complain? If it appeals to most people, why not, especially if it doesn't offend the minority as well?

Mike

I think you miss the point slightly.

No there is nothing wrong with deliberately targetting a market segment (say, young, trendy females);

But, you can do so in a way that doesn't imply that:

a) All women like about a product is the appearance
b) Only women care about a product's appearance
c) All women are too thick to understand a product unless it is dumbed down
d) Only women are too thick to understand a product unless it is dumbed down.

It (like most other marketing and advertising) relies on stereotypes and (to create another stereotype) this is because most people working in advertising and marketing are selfish morons with no understanding of human nature and no subtley at all. Of course, my previous comment could just have been a little joke...

Seriously, the problem with marketing is that is a self contained little world of assumptions and cliches that are not really properly tested (despite all the polling and focus groups) and as long as everyone in the club keeps peddling the same approach the chances of truthful, honest and sensible advertising that appeals to sensible rational people is non existent...

PalmsWestPhoto said:

should all commercials for female products stop using females in
them as it implies that females should buy the product

what a bunch of BS. They market the product to a specific segment.
Simple marketing 101

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com

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I think the point I've learned about techincal products is that the technicalities do appeal to a proportion of people who like that sort of thing but this group is smaller than those who would rather the product did everything for them.

Nothing wrong with that but the marketing is promulgating the thought that the majority group is exclusively women (and of course implying that this group is superficial and mindless).

It wouldn't be offensive in anyway if it recognised that men are exactly as mindless and superficial as women...

brianj said:

I think it is brilliant marketing. All the women I know have
bought their camera for its case colour. Not everyone is dribbling
over technical details like many of the people on this forum.

Brian

Click to expand...

Petteri Sulonen said:

David, do you seriously think that most women are airheads who buy
a camera because it comes in hot pink?

Perhaps they are. In that case, I must hang out with the wrong kind
of women.

Click to expand...

Not really, you just hang out with the 1% that is actually interested in photography or the 1% that is conscious about spending their money (regardless of what they say, most women are spendthrifty). The rest doesn't care that much (if at all). That 2% is going to look into available options more, choose the one that suits them best, even if they have to pay a small premium for the choice. However, it's exactly identical for men. There is only 1% of those genuinely interested in photography, and 1% who are conscious about the money they spend. The rest wants a toy to show off, and often doesn't care about the cost or highest quality. Naturally, most of the dpreview.com forum audience are in that 1%, and only that 2% frequent dpreview itself for the comparisons or reviews.

Petteri Sulonen said:

I certainly didn't intend to get into a gender-issues fight,
although looking back at that post it was probably unavoidable, and
it would've been better not to post it. Sorry for the inconvenience
everyone.

Click to expand...

Not a problem, although if you haven't reacted, this might have been a master troll post. And even if it offends you, or some of the people around here it's because of the attitude (look above), not because of the actual ad's contents. Digital cameras are a sensitive subject here (by definition), so we tend to look at them from all sides, not just boxes with a button on the top that miraculously takes pictures, and the difference between them comes down to megapixels and colour of the casing. Believe me, the rest of the market has the latter approach, and nothing is going to change it. Kodak's (or anyone else's) reaction is just natural...

DMillier said:

Nothing wrong with that but the marketing is promulgating the
thought that the majority group is exclusively women (and of course
implying that this group is superficial and mindless).

Click to expand...

Not really. They have a dumbed-down product. If they have two versions of it, one in shiny, chic, casing, and another in a more bulky one, it's only logical they market the former to women. Women are more likely to accept two facts:
1. that they are ignorant in some topics;
2. that someone wishes to lend them a hand in that topic.

DavidMillier said:

It wouldn't be offensive in anyway if it recognised that men are
exactly as mindless and superficial as women...

Click to expand...

Well, Kodak could try to market a dumbed-down camera to men soon as well... But men do not take kindly to critique, but they will listen to "advice" that acknowledges their aptitude.

No they're not.

Although your comment is very true, it misses the point that the advertising isn't just saying: " Hey there are lots of people out there who only care about superficial fashion consciousness and who are too lazy/stupid/bored to learn how to use even the simplest instrument" - if it was that would be rude (although true) but it wouldn't be reinforcing stereotypes because it wouldn't be discriminating.

But what the advertising is doing is actually implying is that there is a selective group - women - about which this is especially true. That is stereotyping!

martin.racer said:

please bear in mind that lots of people out there just are not
techies or photo freaks like us ,they just want a simple camera
that takes nice sharp trouble free shots of their friends
,relatives kids boyfriends ,girl friends etc places they have
visited .My wife likes her "simple " Kodak but uses my 10D plus
L lenses if I set it up for her ,charge the battery ,and download
everything ,she is not stupid, just is not interested in the
process of taking photographs only the result .Kodak are bang on

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I'm not sure it is for you (or me for that matter) to attribute specific characters to women and men that are simply more examples of stereotyping in defence of stereotyping!

toughluck said:

DMillier said:

Nothing wrong with that but the marketing is promulgating the
thought that the majority group is exclusively women (and of course
implying that this group is superficial and mindless).

Click to expand...

Not really. They have a dumbed-down product. If they have two
versions of it, one in shiny, chic, casing, and another in a more
bulky one, it's only logical they market the former to women. Women
are more likely to accept two facts:
1. that they are ignorant in some topics;
2. that someone wishes to lend them a hand in that topic.

toughluck said:

It wouldn't be offensive in anyway if it recognised that men are
exactly as mindless and superficial as women...

Click to expand...

Well, Kodak could try to market a dumbed-down camera to men soon as
well... But men do not take kindly to critique, but they will
listen to "advice" that acknowledges their aptitude.

Click to expand...

DM

DavidMillier said:

I think you miss the point slightly.

Click to expand...

Actually i think you do

DavidMillier said:

a) All women like about a product is the appearance

Click to expand...

Dont see where they say all women do. This is something you are implying

DavidMillier said:

b) Only women care about a product's appearance

Click to expand...

Same thing here. I dont see anything that says men wouldnt care or that all women do

DavidMillier said:

c) All women are too thick to understand a product unless it is
dumbed down

Click to expand...

Dont see that either

DavidMillier said:

d) Only women are too thick to understand a product unless it is
dumbed down.

Click to expand...

Neither do i see this

The problem is in the person interpreting things in a bad way.

Interestingly the group that they are marketing too isnt the one complaining it is the group that as i mentioned earlier see everthing in a bad way. That same group cant see nude pictures because they are porn and stuff like that.

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com

Not Kodak, they're just going with the flow. If you look at it, all women's magazines are much more guilty in this regard than Kodak will ever be.

Same kind of advertising as in fashion, in accessories, in house decoration, in everything! If you're so keen on battling it, then onwards, you knight in shining armour, you. Just don't come crying back when you realise it's a fight with windmills.

David

I have read some of these posts with interest and I think I understand your objection to having your thoughts corrected - in a way this can be worse or at least as bad as some of the original problems.

But it seems to me that there are really two aspects that need to be addressed. One is doing something to actively combat discrimination where this exists - and it does - and this seems to be the real motivation behind excessive zeal in political correctness gone mad.

The other aspect is the one that bothers me. And that is a lot of people seem to have views based on untested and often ill founded assumptions.

In other words it is not a long distance to travel between sensible and realistic generalisations about the world and unwarranted and lazy prejudices and sterotypes - and this can be a very bad thing when it comes to social matters. In cases like this, I think excessive zeal in pointing out the flawed thinking and trying to get people to think about things from the perspective of "the victim" is a reasonable approach. Wouldn't you agree?

David Martin said:

Regards as always!

Petteri Sulonen said:

David, do you seriously think that most women are airheads who buy
a camera because it comes in hot pink?

Perhaps they are. In that case, I must hang out with the wrong kind
of women.

I certainly didn't intend to get into a gender-issues fight,
although looking back at that post it was probably unavoidable, and
it would've been better not to post it. Sorry for the inconvenience
everyone.

Petteri
--
Me on photography: [ http://www.prime-junta.tk/ ]
Me on politics: [ http://p-on-p.blogspot.com/ ]

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

Click to expand...

You need to be careful about how you interpret the resistance (or lack of) of groups who are on the receiving end of stereotypes. Sometimes the stereotype can be so successful that it works and trains the target to think like the stereotype...but that doesn't mean this is a good thing.

PalmsWestPhoto said:

PalmsWestPhoto said:

I think you miss the point slightly.

Click to expand...

Actually i think you do

PalmsWestPhoto said:

a) All women like about a product is the appearance

Click to expand...

Dont see where they say all women do. This is something you are
implying

PalmsWestPhoto said:

b) Only women care about a product's appearance

Click to expand...

Same thing here. I dont see anything that says men wouldnt care or
that all women do

PalmsWestPhoto said:

c) All women are too thick to understand a product unless it is
dumbed down

Click to expand...

Dont see that either

PalmsWestPhoto said:

d) Only women are too thick to understand a product unless it is
dumbed down.

Click to expand...

Neither do i see this

The problem is in the person interpreting things in a bad way.

Interestingly the group that they are marketing too isnt the one
complaining it is the group that as i mentioned earlier see
everthing in a bad way. That same group cant see nude pictures
because they are porn and stuff like that.

--
Michael Salzlechner
http://www.PalmsWestPhoto.com

Click to expand...

It isn't really acceptable argumentation to attempt to defend a point of view about stereotypes by invoking MORE stereotypes!!

"regardless of what they say, most women are spendthrifty" - what is this ludicrous, ridiculous comment if nothing but the most sexist and stereotyped viewpoint!