Pool 300 users - How Long?

This is mostly amined at the 300 users since you all have been around longer. If the 300 was your 1st SLR how long did it take before you became comfortable with the camera and were satisfied with the pics you were taking?

I see a lot of 350 users are unhappy, perhaps if you could give us newbies a resonable expectation of what it takes to get half way decent there would not be so many complaints!

Thanks,

--
Alex

An American in Japan, DSLR Newbie

300 is my first SLR, digital or otherwise. Still have it, still happy with it(and hack). Still learning.

I've had my 300 for about 11 months now. I was comfortable with it on day one, thanks to the "green square" shooting mode.

I now shoot mostly AV mode, got to that point after about 4 months.

Alex,

I got my 300d in December 2003. My first attempts were quite awful.

My shots seemed blurry and very flat and lifeless. So I got a couple of IS lenses - that helped a bit with the blur but they were still flat and lifeless.

6 months later, practice had helped a bit it was then a voice from on high said "GO RAW YOUNG MAN" so I went raw, couldn't do anything about the age though. From that point on the pictures got significantly better.
Over the last 12 months I am getting better still but hopefully still learning.
The things that helped me:

Practice taking shots with your longest lens at a slowish shutter speed - this will teach you to tuck your elbows in to your sides, breathe properly, get a good stable stance.
Shoot raw especially if you have a good raw processor.
Select manual mode for most situations. Learn to jiggle the settings.
Get a good tripod.
Get a tripod.
Oh did I mention the tripod?
Put the hack on.

Landscapes are the easiest to start with as they don't move much, this will give you the opportunity to learn to shoot-to-the-right. Go into menu and set you camera up to show INFO automatically for about 4 secs.

Take a shot and check that you can get the histgram as far to the right without blowing the highlights (which will flash). Being in manual mode helps as you can easily make adjustments (what I referred to as jiggling above) this is easier than trying to adjust the EV settings in Av and Tv modes.

Oh Always make a point of checking your ISO setting before a days shoot. There is nothing worse than taking a heap of shots at 400+ when 100 would have been better.

Anyway judge for yourself if my images are OK at
http://members.iinet.net.au/~pennard/

Cheers Peter
--

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

I'm a newbie but have had my d300 for a couple of months now. Without knowing a lot about processing yet, I'm amazed at the quality of the iimages from the camera. I lurk around here and other forums an am learnig a lot from the more experianced members. --
Bob

As with driving, it takes some longer than others. A bit like asking how long is a piece of string really.

Enjoy your camera - I'm a very happy 300D owner and won't upgrade yet and even when I do it definitely won't be to a 350D.

Regards, David

got mine for 1.5 years now....still learning and enjoying it.

i had no complaints, primarily because i came from a far too inferior p&s camera. but this was my first slr camera...so any error was because of operator's fault.

my advice is to keep practising and get out of the auto modes and use the creative modes...e.g. av/tv first and then m mode at later point. it is cheap and you won't be wasting film.

-----
http://www.pbase.com/antidote3

MadRussian said:

This is mostly amined at the 300 users since you all have been
around longer. If the 300 was your 1st SLR how long did it take
before you became comfortable with the camera and were satisfied
with the pics you were taking?

Click to expand...

I did my steep learning curve bit with my previous camera, the Fuji 602, that was the one I had an uneasy start with, it was the first digital I had with manual control - which was what I wanted and I'd used a film SLR extensively over 20+ years, but the progression to digital wasn't as transparent as I expected, it took some time to apply what I already knew, but differently. I had to get my head into the right type of thinking.

But having gone through that process, the 300D transition was much smoother - I was happy from the outset, then it was simply a case of getting to know the camera controls so I could use it without thinking in the field. Don't underestimate that process, getting to the stage where you work instinctively, is a critical stage to get to and for some it's quicker than others.

MadRussian said:

I see a lot of 350 users are unhappy, perhaps if you could give us
newbies a resonable expectation of what it takes to get half way
decent there would not be so many complaints!

Click to expand...

I think some of the problem is that these cameras are pretty inexpensive compared to what we were looking at a handful of years ago and consequnetly are owned by a lot more people than they would if they were twice the price - they have mass appeal and mass-affordability Consequently, a lot of people buy them that haven't necessarily progressed through other models and therefore get these cameras with a lot of learning to do - I came at the 300D more gradually. Despite their relatively modest prices, they are sophisticated pieces of kit that ten years ago, only pros would have considered owning, but today's owners don't have that level of knowledge.

I've been taking photographs for over 30 years and know very little in the scheme of things and learn daily, so anyone buying these models as first cameras will have a very steep learning curve ahead of them in order to get the best they can from them, but if you enjoy it and are prepared to learn and invest some effort will find it very rewarding.

If I had a single piece of advice it would be to keep taking pictures, learn about the principles of photography, really learn your camera, don't use the automatic modes, so you can experiement and learn from your mistakes if you have to - do all this before spending money on expensive accessories - one of the most oft asked questions here is about what lens to buy and some wag will always suggest the only way they'll get decent pictures is to drop 1500 pounds/dollars on L quality glass.

Cobblers. The best way to learn the camera is to keep taking pictures - just experiment with things to see how they effect the outcome. After a shoot when you have a pile of pictures taken, decide what you like about some, what you don't like with others and apply what you learn from it, next time. Get to know why/how some don't work and how/why others do - then you're making progress.

--
So many photos, so little time . . .
http://www.peekaboo.me.uk - general portfolio & tutorials
http://www.boo-photos.co.uk - live music portfolio
http://imageevent.com/boophotos/ - most recent images

Please do not amend and re-post my images unless specifically requested or given permission to do so.

A couple of months to feel comfortable. Just keep trying until you get
a routine that works for you.

I got my 300D as soon as it came available and to answer your question, i became happy with it when i figured out that my monitor needed calibrated. I ditched the first few hundred shots because they were dark, but someone figured out that it was my monitor and not the pictures. I become happier the more i learn about post processing also. Going on 2 years and i'm still on the honeymoon stage so i'm happy.
--
***********************************************************
Rudi - Phounder Of The Phart ... CATS member #100 > ^..^
My Pharts: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman/pharts
Favorites: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman/my_favorites
Alaskan Cruise 2004: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman/alaska
Everything in my galleries, God Made. Its just my job to show them.
***********************************************************

Satisfied, quite quickly due to the Camera excellent auto options, Comfortable competely, never...

I've got two years of shooting under my belt (not long i know, but i've read much and study its intensely) and the 300D sure has a lot of room to expand. First learning the right appitures and shutters speeds for sharpness, the move onto balancing that with the correct ISO. Whitebalance follows soon after that. On from WB you begin to play with the copensation and stopping down. After that, we begin to bracket and use the tripod more, expirement with new lenses. Oh then suddenly you discover the Color space, and how much that can help Post Processing. Wow Adobe RGB or sRGB whens the right time to use those? Wow I can set those settings with a custom menu! Hmm how sharp is to sharp, whats the right setting. Then you move onto shooting it RAW and applying many of these settings afterwards. When will i remember all these settings and know instantly the best balance of all of them in every situation, maybe never. But hopefully in time. (hey theres always photoshop to fill in the cracks) So its bassically as long of a process to get comfortable as you want it to be. You could become a great shooter without ever learning to use RAW or the custom colorspace settings. Or you could dive in.

Well, so far I have two observations 1

1 - Perhaps I would have had better response spelling "Poll" correctly ;-)

2 - Looks my bull headed stubbornness is finally going to come in handy.

I can't say I am unhappy, just impatient I guess. Once I think I got things figured out a little I open another door that adds a ton of new variables. I am trying to keep so many things straight in my head and I keep blowing the little things. Today was a prime example, a rare and wonderfully clear day so I took some pics of Mt. Fuji only later to note I had left the ISO set to 800 from the previous day. After cropping I was left with tons of noise. Well, off I go to figure out Noise Ninja….

Thanks to everyone and your encouragement.

I own a Digital Rebel from november and this is my first digital SLR.

Before DR i had an old fashin Pentacon Exacta RTL1000 (around 1960s) and learned alot a about apperture and shutter speed. The only problem that i had by jumpin into digital was the ISO parameter. the digital was not the same as the manual camera so that is why my first shots were mostly in AV and TV.
After one month i jumped into Manual and since that time i shoot 99.9% manual.

Not always i get the effect that i want but i have photoshop to help me correct the mistake. But my philosophy is to create and compose a great image with your camera and not afterwards with photoshop. I try to avoid this!!!
You must control your camera, and not to be controled by the camera.
I make mistakes, but we will always learn until we leave this life forever....

Had my 300 for about 8 months. Have been shooting manual and Auto SLRs for several years.

Is it as good as my EOS30 Film camera? No.

Is it a better tool to learn with than a film camera? Yes.

Is it better than any P&S I have used? Definately.

Last weekend I spent watching the Paralympic World Cup in Manchester. For the first time I actually started to get the quality of shots that I have got from my 30.

Still can't get the flash results I am after, even with my Sigma super DG 500. That is going to have to be more practice.

Still shooting with the 3 kits lenses (the one off the 300d and the two off the 30) and a 50 F1.8 mk2. All are very cheap. When I am rich, I will buy better lenses but they are good enough to cover most requirements.

Basically, its a good camera that takes a bit of work to make it a really good camera. Still the best option that I could suggest for learning to shoot SLR with. The number of wasted shots I have made learning to drive SLRs over the years and now you don't care. Delete the file and try again rather than keeping my local photo processing shop in business.

When I can get my website up and running, I will post a few shots.

Sponge.

Hi there,

I will add my controversial answer to your question. Most people disagree with me but I can live with that.

I have used film SLR's in a "touristy" way for many years and looked forward to getting my 300D in December 2003

For the 1st Month I got it I regretted wasting the money on it, pictures were NOT as good as my little Nikon 995 which gave brilliant pics from the 1st day I bought it.

I persevered and learnt some lessons....

On the 300D that I have the green auto mode, and in fact ALL of the basic modes DO NOT WORK. It is as simple as that.

The camera had the flash crippled by setting it much too dark with no ability to compensate. This was fixed by downloading an illegal hack and setting the camera permanently on +2/3rds I rarely change it from this.

The stupid 7 point autofocus is worthless. Immediately change it to the centre spot and stick to that. Just point at the bit you need in focus, half press, reframe and take pic, same as I used to with my old film Canon SLR.

If you get a tricky metering problem the AE lock or whatever it is called, the * button on the camera is very useful as it takes the reading from the very centre (roughly)

I also learnt the pleasures of RAW. I use the Phase one, C1 LE software and would never consider anything else, personnal choice but I think it is totally awesome. I own a full copy of Photoshop 7 and when it comes to "developing photos" it doesn't come close.

I mentioned the green button doesn't work?

For all outdoor photos I normally use the "P" mode as it does work, does allow RAW and you can easily adjust aperuture or shutter speed.

The real trick is flash photographs - READ THIS BIT - on all modes (I think) except manual the inbuilt flash automatically sets itself to 1/60th second (too slow) and the lowest aperture on the camera (F3.5 etc) which means you have no depth of field. You can't change much of this....

If you go to manual mode you can change the aperture AND shutter speed to anything you want and the flash will AUTOMATICALLY compensate. I find it bizarre that the only setting that AUTOMATICALLY adjusts the power of the flash to what you want is the MANUAL setting!!!

I take most of my flash stuff on 1/125th and F8 which works well for indoor family shots with the kit lens.

How did I learn most of this? Trial and error!

Would I get rid of the damn camera now?

NO It is an excellent camera, WHEN you download illegal hacks and find ways around all the things that don't work on it.

MANY people will have taken offence by now and disagree with everything I have said. You are of course entitled to your opinions, I am merely stating what I have found.

Good luck

Andy

Alex, it took me a good while to believe that I could get some good shots with my 300D. My first shots were quite awful! Too dark, too fuzzy, too orange, too out of focus, too everything bad. I bought my camera December 31, 2004 and after a month of reading the manual and pointing and shooting everything in site, I took the camera to a local camera store and asked them to check it out as I was sure it was broken. Then I discovered this forum and things just started to come together and I learned that taking good photographs requires learning-and shooting-continuously. I now use every form of learning available,classes, books, magazines but my most helpful learning comes from this forum.

So how long dose it take? I dunno, I'm still learning...and enjoying! Best wishes for a great capture! it will happen!

Rich

and I'm not joking. I also have fairly high expectations.

I am not saying that all 350 users who are having problems are wrong. Sometimes individual cameras have issues.

In some (possibly many) cases, the users themselves are actually the problem.

I will say that I had the advantage of owning a good lens right from the start with the 70-200 F4L. I did end up replacing the kit lens as I was not satisfied with its performance for my uses (got the 17-40 F4L which I love).

--

Please respect my copyright and do not repost my images. This includes edits that show possible improvements. I appreciate your thoughts and ideas but I want to retain control of how and when my images are seen. Thanks!

It is easier to blame the firmware than the wetware.

For a gallery of my photographs, see:
http://www.pbase.com/ratphoto

See my profile for my equipment

I failed to take note of the 1st SLR part. This was my first D-SLR. I have used SLRs for 25 years.

--

Please respect my copyright and do not repost my images. This includes edits that show possible improvements. I appreciate your thoughts and ideas but I want to retain control of how and when my images are seen. Thanks!

It is easier to blame the firmware than the wetware.

For a gallery of my photographs, see:
http://www.pbase.com/ratphoto

See my profile for my equipment

I read far too many thread with people that use the auto modes. Maybe that's where the new 350D users are having problems. There is a thread going on right now that complains about the XT not showing preview on the LCD! A lot of people are jumping into the DSLR expecting it will be as easy as using a P&S.

In order to get make decent picture I'd say one has to start in Manual and stick with it. Quite frankly I don't even know how the other creative modes look like. It is hard at first, you'll miss good shots but it will get to you. RAW is a good way to go too.

... then when you are ready you go and spend all your money on some L lens.

PS: that was my first DSLR. was using my dad old SLR and a small 2MP (!!!) PS.
--
Matthieu

http://www.pbase.com/psgblues

Immediately for me too, but prior to buying the 300D October 03, I used a Minolta D7 for a couple of years, and before that I'd been into photography for over 40 years