new D30, why am I dissappointed

I got a new D30 with a 28-105 3.4-5.4 lens and I am dissappointed with the image quality. Is this because I am not using L lenses or are their other reasons. I am still thinking to get the D1h, but according the reviews tjhe D30 should have great image quality.

What should I try. I feel my pictures are not sharp, skin colors are not as good as my old Nikon Coolpix 950. Resolution is of course good, but I cannot accept that this is it. I can get better overall quality pictures with my Coolpix.

Rene

Rene vandochum said:

I got a new D30 with a 28-105 3.4-5.4 lens and I am dissappointed
with the image quality. Is this because I am not using L lenses or
are their other reasons. I am still thinking to get the D1h, but
according the reviews tjhe D30 should have great image quality.

What should I try. I feel my pictures are not sharp, skin colors
are not as good as my old Nikon Coolpix 950. Resolution is of
course good, but I cannot accept that this is it. I can get better
overall quality pictures with my Coolpix.

Rene

Click to expand...

Rene,

Post one of your images or provide a link and perhaps one of us can help figure out what you need to do.

Lin

Lin's right, Rene. It's quite likely your images are just fine once you learn how to adjust them.

You speak as if you have not seen any samples from the D30 -- do you like any of the images posted here or in the many other sites that feature D30 images (like, ahem, my site)? If you do, then the odds are great you just haven't learned how to use the camera.

This camera is quite different from your Nikon -- I had a Nikon 990 and the learning curve was steep but I would not now go back for any amount of money (and haven't touched the 990 since I got the D30). With simple adjustments in PS you can make your D30 images sing.

Could you please elborate? I only know a few about "unsharp mask" from Luminous Landscape but I am not sure about other simple tweaks.

Griffin.

Mike Kelley said:

This camera is quite different from your Nikon -- I had a Nikon 990
and the learning curve was steep but I would not now go back for
any amount of money (and haven't touched the 990 since I got the
D30). With simple adjustments in PS you can make your D30 images
sing.

Click to expand...

Lin was so kind to show me the difference between my picture and his after reworking it, it is a huge difference. For anybody interested see:



Now I got to find out how to do this and how to program the camera to do this when the picture gets taken.

Rene

Mike Kelley said:

Lin's right, Rene. It's quite likely your images are just fine
once you learn how to adjust them.

You speak as if you have not seen any samples from the D30 -- do
you like any of the images posted here or in the many other sites
that feature D30 images (like, ahem, my site)? If you do, then the
odds are great you just haven't learned how to use the camera.

This camera is quite different from your Nikon -- I had a Nikon 990
and the learning curve was steep but I would not now go back for
any amount of money (and haven't touched the 990 since I got the
D30). With simple adjustments in PS you can make your D30 images
sing.

Click to expand...

Can you please clarify the differences in the post camera adjustments that were made. I am relatively new and still learning. I have been able to improve on color and contrast but have not been able to adjust the sharpness this well. I just got PS6.0 today and I think there is a big improvement compared with 5.0LE. Mark

Rene vandochum said:

Now I got to find out how to do this and how to program the camera
to do this when the picture gets taken.

Rene

Mike Kelley said:

Lin's right, Rene. It's quite likely your images are just fine
once you learn how to adjust them.

You speak as if you have not seen any samples from the D30 -- do
you like any of the images posted here or in the many other sites
that feature D30 images (like, ahem, my site)? If you do, then the
odds are great you just haven't learned how to use the camera.

This camera is quite different from your Nikon -- I had a Nikon 990
and the learning curve was steep but I would not now go back for
any amount of money (and haven't touched the 990 since I got the
D30). With simple adjustments in PS you can make your D30 images
sing.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I am new too. I have a 28-135IS but I am not sure how much it could be better in terms of "image quality" but I am very satified the quality.

After over 800 test shots in these mere 2 weeks I find something I may wish to share, especially since I am also "graduated" from pro-sumer cameras.

1. Handshaking blur is more noticable in D30. I wasted a lot of good moments due to handshake blur. It is mostly due to the dramatic increase in weight. D30 + ST-E2 + Battery Grip + EF 28-135IS makes my good old Oly C2020Z feel like a feather. This is an old dog but for me, it could be a problem.

2. May be you turn off all in-camera tweaks (saturation/sharpening/contrast) for Canon made a good descision to miniize the tweaking and let the users adjust to their likeings.

3. From the point above, learn to post-process your image with photo re-touchng software like Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro. It is a must. One post makes an excellent anolog to photo lab jobs of 35mm photo. But now you take the full helm in your computer.

4. Since most "starter" lens is genrally "slower" than CP950 and C2020Z, you may wish to adjust the EV stop up a bit.

5. It is a little skin tone color problem. Mr. John Cowley has made an excellent tip on how to fix it in Photoshop
http://www.lonestardigital.com/D30_Colors.htm

I am still learning to use this camera and, not to mention, how to post-process with Photoshop. There are a lot of discussions here which tells you how to shoot and process.

I would also suggest you visit the D30 Tips page by Mr. Donald L. Cohen, MD at:
http://www.dlcphotography.net/D30Tips.htm

Enjoy!

"Welcome to the Real World"

Rene vandochum said:

I got a new D30 with a 28-105 3.4-5.4 lens and I am dissappointed
with the image quality. Is this because I am not using L lenses or
are their other reasons. I am still thinking to get the D1h, but
according the reviews tjhe D30 should have great image quality.

What should I try. I feel my pictures are not sharp, skin colors
are not as good as my old Nikon Coolpix 950. Resolution is of
course good, but I cannot accept that this is it. I can get better
overall quality pictures with my Coolpix.

Rene

Click to expand...

Rene vandochum said:

I got a new D30 with a 28-105 3.4-5.4 lens and I am dissappointed
with the image quality

Click to expand...

Mine arrived yesterday. Here's the very second photo I took with it, looking into a mirror (flipped in Photoshop 5.5). I used a CF card reader, so its not been anywhere near the Canon software. Lighting is a mixture of tungsten and bounced 550EX set to my normal -1 compensation. Colour looks pretty much bang on considering the lighting. I did a 50% unsharp mask after I'd shrunk it.



Lens is the 28-70/2.8 L - but I don't think the lens quality is causing your problems. Sensitivity was 800.

My immediate impressions:
Handles nicely
Very quiet (with no film to wind!)
Nice LCD display
Handy custom functions (turned off that white spotlight straight away!)

Not too happy about the shutter button - the first stage is too far down compared to my EOS1n.

I bought it from Ace Cameras in Bath, UK - just under 2000 UKP with grip.

Chris.
--
http://www.wildphotos.org/

Wow! We are now in growing group of users!

Chris said:

Mine arrived yesterday. Here's the very second photo I took with
it, looking into a mirror (flipped in Photoshop 5.5). I used a CF
card reader, so its not been anywhere near the Canon software.
Lighting is a mixture of tungsten and bounced 550EX set to my
normal -1 compensation. Colour looks pretty much bang on
considering the lighting. I did a 50% unsharp mask after I'd shrunk
it.

Click to expand...

mark kay said:

Can you please clarify the differences in the post camera
adjustments that were made

Click to expand...

Besides the adjustments that you mentioned, I am willing to bet that Lin applied the unsharp mask (Filter drop down menu). Most people use settings around 200, 1.5,2 or something like that. One you get the feel of it then you can adjust from there. There is a thing known as over sharpening and you can easily see that in a jpeg file if you take the slider bar all the way from 200 to 500. The effects are easily noticable.

Also, if you shoot in RAW and convert to either a 16 Bit or an 8 Bit (I use 8 bit to reduce the file size to about 8MB versus 16MB for the 16 Bit in TIFF) Tiff file you will find that you can sharpen it much more than in jpeg.

It is amazing how much this site has helped me and others figure out the little things. You are right, without the post processing that we didnt have to do with our early digital cameras the D30 images are very unsatisfying, but put the post processing in (like film) and WOW!

The unsharp mask is the key!

regards, Herb

Since you're a D30 newbie, it might be a good idea to use settings that are going to maximize image quality, while reducing post processing.

A good starting point for indoor flash pics would be to get used to using manual settings on your camera. This would enable you to use the lens at it's best, while giving you a shutter speed high enough to reduce shake.
The camera's E-TTL flash system will work just as well in manual mode( camera)

Set your camera's parameters to "Standard"
Don't shoot raw......yet. Use JPG.
Basically set your shutter speed to around 1/100 sec
Set aperture to f7.1 - f8
Set your ISO to 200

These are my "candid snapshot" settings.
Fast enough to reduce shake...and reduce ambient light
Aperture setting maximizes lens' abilities...

ISO 200 gives back some distance lost with higher fstop. ( may even want to consider 400 ISO)

After a while, you can start "backing out" of these settings to allow your creativity to take over.

Have fun.

I'm not trying to be critical here, but hopefully helpful. I think that it is possible to get a much better starting point picture with the D30. I don't want Rene to think that is it just about fixing it in Photoshop. It is possible to get a much better picture with a D30.

While I would agree that D30 pictures are remarkably save-able, just looking at the orginal it looks like something was done "wrong" in the original picture taking (hey, I mess up a lot and I have been using my D30 for 9 months).

Using an SLR is a bit trickier than a point an shoot. You have a lot more control which means you can take some very interesting pictures, but it also means you have the control to mess them up. Using a flash with an SLR compounds the problem as the camera indepently sets the Flash and Ambient exposure. A lot of people have this problem. On point and shoots they tend to take care of all of this for you and shoot at a high shutter speed and small aperture when taking a flash. With an SLR it is up to you to decide what you want.

It is hard to tell from the photos posted because I don't know if they are crops, what the F-number was and the focal length (these would all gives clues as to what might have caused some of the problems with the photo.

A virtue of the D30 is that you can often fix things when you mess up. But I think that with some experimenting and experience, much less fix up will be necessary.

Karl

Rene vandochum said:

Now I got to find out how to do this and how to program the camera
to do this when the picture gets taken.

Rene

Mike Kelley said:

Lin's right, Rene. It's quite likely your images are just fine
once you learn how to adjust them.

You speak as if you have not seen any samples from the D30 -- do
you like any of the images posted here or in the many other sites
that feature D30 images (like, ahem, my site)? If you do, then the
odds are great you just haven't learned how to use the camera.

This camera is quite different from your Nikon -- I had a Nikon 990
and the learning curve was steep but I would not now go back for
any amount of money (and haven't touched the 990 since I got the
D30). With simple adjustments in PS you can make your D30 images
sing.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thank you all, this was already an amzaing little trip. I would stil prefer to not have lot of touchup. For some pictures that is fine, but in general, overall staright out of the camera good shots are preferred to not spend time on touching up. Anyone on if Nikon D1X would be helpful?

By the way, my picture was taken with most auto settings, flash, shutter 60 and i believe F 4.0. iso was a bit high at 600

I havent been shooting for 20 years and I find an old problem not improoved, these cameras still need lots of light

Anthony said:

Since you're a D30 newbie, it might be a good idea to use settings
that are going to maximize image quality, while reducing post
processing.

A good starting point for indoor flash pics would be to get used to
using manual settings on your camera. This would enable you to use
the lens at it's best, while giving you a shutter speed high enough
to reduce shake.
The camera's E-TTL flash system will work just as well in manual
mode( camera)

Set your camera's parameters to "Standard"
Don't shoot raw......yet. Use JPG.
Basically set your shutter speed to around 1/100 sec
Set aperture to f7.1 - f8
Set your ISO to 200

These are my "candid snapshot" settings.
Fast enough to reduce shake...and reduce ambient light
Aperture setting maximizes lens' abilities...
ISO 200 gives back some distance lost with higher fstop. ( may even
want to consider 400 ISO)

After a while, you can start "backing out" of these settings to
allow your creativity to take over.

Have fun.

Click to expand...

Rene vandochum said:

Thank you all, this was already an amzaing little trip. I would
stil prefer to not have lot of touchup. For some pictures that is
fine, but in general, overall staright out of the camera good shots
are preferred to not spend time on touching up. Anyone on if Nikon
D1X would be helpful?

By the way, my picture was taken with most auto settings, flash,
shutter 60 and i believe F 4.0. iso was a bit high at 600

I havent been shooting for 20 years and I find an old problem not
improoved, these cameras still need lots of light
Anthony wrote:

Click to expand...

Rene,

First, the D1x is similar to the D30 in that you need to post process images for optimum performance. You can use your Canon software (connect your camera to your computer) to change the default settings. You may want to try changing the sharpness and saturation to their highest levels. Sharpness is best done in software rather than in-camera, but there are three levels of sharpness possible with the default being "normal," which is still very soft.

Do a search on the forum for "sharpness" and you will get many suggestions. The default "Unsharp Mask" in PhotoShop sharpens the entire image, but often you don't want to do that. Sharpening increases the perception of noise, so it's best to only sharpen those portions of the image which have detail rather than everything such as walls, sky, etc. There is a free PhotoShop "Action" available for sharpening which you will find in your search. You may want to try it. I would suggest also setting the ISO no higher than 200 until you get familiar with the camera and with using software to correct and enhance the image. Using higher ISO's (you mentioned ISO 600, but it was more likely ISO 800 because there isn't an ISO 600 ) will result in grainy images unless the lighting is very good. You internal flash will sync to 1/200th so you may want to shoot at faster shutter speeds to eliminate the possiblity of camera shake. An external flash would go a long way toward helping here. Also, get the 50mm F1.8 lens - it's very sharp and very inexpensive and will be quite an improvement for indoor shots. Using this much faster lens, will let you set the aperture to F8 for the sharpest images, while still giving you sufficient light to keep a reasonably fast shutter speed.

Lin

Griffin said:

Could you please elborate? I only know a few about "unsharp mask"
from Luminous Landscape but I am not sure about other simple tweaks.

Click to expand...

I avoid "plugging" my web site but it's far easier to be more verbose there. At http://www.kelleytown.com/D30.html you'll find some paths to tips and tricks, particularly the Photoshop for Beginning Photographers.

Rene later in this thread wonders if the Nikon would be better for him and Lin appropriately answers it will be about the same. The truth is that the higher end SLR cameras, just like higher end film SLRs, assume you want to take the time to do a little more in order to get the best image. If that's not what he wants (if he really wants more snapshots than images), I think Rene would be far happier upgrading his 950 to the Nikon 995.

Mike Kelley said:

I avoid "plugging" my web site but it's far easier to be more
verbose there. At http://www.kelleytown.com/D30.html you'll find
some paths to tips and tricks, particularly the Photoshop for
Beginning Photographers.

Click to expand...

http://www.kelleytown.com/canond30.html .

Griffin said:

1. Handshaking blur is more noticable in D30. I wasted a lot of
good moments due to handshake blur. It is mostly due to the
dramatic increase in weight. D30 + ST-E2 + Battery Grip + EF
28-135IS makes my good old Oly C2020Z feel like a feather. This is
an old dog but for me, it could be a problem.

Click to expand...

I hear you! My biggest problem with the D30. With the 950 you can get away with handholding, with the D30, and my cheap lenses, I'm in trouble.

Missed a few "coulda been great" wildlife shots thinking I was safe at 1/350 at 300mm. Ouch.

Steve

With the D30's 1.6X multiplier, a 300mm lens would have the hand shake blurr of a 480mm lens (there is a very long and confusing thread on the subject). Also this "rule" is just a guideline, and some would say a bare minimum. When you get a large and more unwieldy lens you need more.

I doubt one is really much better off with a smaller point and shoot. It is just that you normally don't get that much effective length, or so many other ways you can mess up a picture with aperture, shutter speed, and flash options with an SLR.

This is the reason, of course, that IS is such a desirable feature in longer lenses.

Karl

Steve Mason said:

Griffin said:

1. Handshaking blur is more noticable in D30. I wasted a lot of
good moments due to handshake blur. It is mostly due to the
dramatic increase in weight. D30 + ST-E2 + Battery Grip + EF
28-135IS makes my good old Oly C2020Z feel like a feather. This is
an old dog but for me, it could be a problem.

Click to expand...

I hear you! My biggest problem with the D30. With the 950 you can
get away with handholding, with the D30, and my cheap lenses, I'm
in trouble.
Missed a few "coulda been great" wildlife shots thinking I was safe
at 1/350 at 300mm. Ouch.

Steve

Click to expand...

Rene...

I've written on this before, so I'll repeat it in a shorter, simpler, fashion. If "print-ready" photos straight out of the camera are what you seek, I'm not sure the D30 is the camera for you. Most will need some tweaking and unsharp-masking is almost a necessity. Canon purposely chose not to apply this kind of action to the images in the camera, giving more flexibility to the photographer. Some may debate me on this point, but IMHO the Coolpix 99x line usually gives better out of the camera images. It's when a good editor knows what to do that the D30 pictures pull away from the pack.

That having been said, I sure wish Canon --had-- allowed a setting that --would-- apply in-camera sharpening if that's what you wanted. My Canon Pro-70 pictures didn't need the post-shooting tweaking the D30 pics take, so we know Canon knows how to do this. For those that insist on creative control, that mode could be switched off, no?

As for the plusses...I can say that in three letters - S-L-R. My D30 handles like a nice 35mm with TTL viewing, knob & button controls (not stuff buried in menus), and an awesome array of available lenses. The Coolpix line can't touch that.

I -do- wish the D30 had a real-time flip-out LCD like the Pro-70 or G-1 though... That design is so great when you wanna do waist level or over-the-head shots. When are these camera designers gonna built us a machine that combines the best of all current designs??

Just to add my 3 pence worth (UK)

I moved to the D30 from the CP990. Yes, images from my Nikon were ready for printing straight out of camera most of the time. Images from the D30 were dull by comparison, however -

I still have the CP990 as it is a very easy camera to carry around for the casual image. BUT I do find the images lacking in depth and quality by comparison with the D30. I shoot RAW and whilst it produces more work the quality (IMHO) is outstanding. Yes sharpening is required (I use Ultra-sharpen 5 Pro which cuts out a bit of the work) and levels which I find is not always needed.

I think it has lready been mentioned above, it is down to what YOU want out of your camera.

Bryan

Truelight said:

Rene...

I've written on this before, so I'll repeat it in a shorter,
simpler, fashion. If "print-ready" photos straight out of the
camera are what you seek, I'm not sure the D30 is the camera for
you. Most will need some tweaking and unsharp-masking is almost a
necessity. Canon purposely chose not to apply this kind of action
to the images in the camera, giving more flexibility to the
photographer. Some may debate me on this point, but IMHO the
Coolpix 99x line usually gives better out of the camera images.
It's when a good editor knows what to do that the D30 pictures pull
away from the pack.

That having been said, I sure wish Canon --had-- allowed a setting
that --would-- apply in-camera sharpening if that's what you
wanted. My Canon Pro-70 pictures didn't need the post-shooting
tweaking the D30 pics take, so we know Canon knows how to do this.
For those that insist on creative control, that mode could be
switched off, no?

As for the plusses...I can say that in three letters - S-L-R. My
D30 handles like a nice 35mm with TTL viewing, knob & button
controls (not stuff buried in menus), and an awesome array of
available lenses. The Coolpix line can't touch that.

I -do- wish the D30 had a real-time flip-out LCD like the Pro-70 or
G-1 though... That design is so great when you wanna do waist level
or over-the-head shots. When are these camera designers gonna
built us a machine that combines the best of all current designs??

Click to expand...