E-10 vs. D7 point by point psycho analysis

BrianP · Aug 1, 2001

Olympus E-10 vs. Minolta Dimage 7 comparison

I am about to purchase a slick, new, digital camera for general purpose
shooting (parties, portraits, landscapes, close-ups, ...) and have boiled
the decision down to a few critical comparison points. I am curious about
how enlightened, current users weight these differences.

I also own an F5 and can use it for any serious shooting I need to do.
But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys) and I have little
patience for substandard engineering.

I can't find a D7 in Austin so I may ask some dumb questions which could
be answered by a cursory examination. The E10 was quite impressive
and others I know who own one love them.

Just to lob a bit of napalm on the fire, here are the main differences I
have found so far:

D7 = 4.9 MPix, E10 = 3.7 MPix. 33% difference! Since they both use a 2/3
CCD, is this difference significant or can I just resize an E10 picture
in Photoshop (or use Genuine Fractals) and achieve the same picture size?
Is it a real difference or just a marketing trick? On the resolution tests
(rescharts), the D7 shows much more moire patterns possibly indicating
that the results are interpolated?

D7 = 12 bit ADC, E10 = 10 bit? Does the D7 actually have 4x the ability to
differentiate colors?

D7 ISO = (100, 200, 400, 800), E10 = (80, 160, 320). From what I have seen
in noise tests, the D7's ISO 800 is pretty noisy. Is it worth using?
If not, do the other 3 ISO speeds for each compare more or less
equally?

D7 = 28 mm - 200 mm w/7x zoom, E10 = 35 mm - 140 mm w/4x zoom. This seems
like the single biggest advantage to the D7. Are the lenses of comparable
quality? Does the increased E10 speed (f2.0 vs. f2.8) make up for this?

D7 has digital 2x zoom, E10 has none. How do the pictures look with the
digital zoom (at 14x)? Is it useful?

D7 = F2.8 - F3.5, E10 = F2.0 - F2.8. This seems like the biggest
advantage to the E10. Is this increased speed more important than more
zoom range?

D7 has "Flex Focus Point", E10 doesn't seem to. If this works, I would
like to have it. IS it useful?

D7 min shutter time = 1/2000 sec, E10 = 1/640. This seems like a
significant advantage to the D7, especially in very bright light or with
fast action.

D7 max shutter time = 4 sec, E10 = 2. Since both can be bulbed to 30
seconds, does this matter?

D7 metering has 300 segment metering, E10 has "ESP Digital". My F5 has
1005 segments so naturally I like many segments. How does ESP compare
to 300 segment? Which camera has better metering (and I am used to F5
accuracy)?

D7 has +-2EV +-1/3 exposure adjustment, E10 has +-3EV +-1/3. Can't you
just adjust time or aperture to make this point mute?

D7 has 3 image bracketing in .3, .5, or 1.0 EV steps. E10 has .3, .7,
1.0. With accurate metering, I never use 1.0. Wouldn't 2 small steps
(.3 and .5) be better than one small and a medium (.3 and .7). Very
small real difference?

D7 can also bracket on color saturation and contrast. I don't see this
feature on the E10. Is this better done in software later?

D7 has auto, custom, daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and cloudy white
balance, E10 has "One-Touch" WB. Can I just carry around a white sheet of
paper to set the white balance with the E10? Do the D7 presets work well?

D7 shoots 1.1 FPS for 4 images, E10 shoots 3 FPS. This seems like a big
advantage for the E10 (my F5 shoots 8 FPS). I have also read that the D7
autofocus is slow. It seems as though the slow continuous shooting rate
and slow AF are 2 of the least desirable features in the D7.

How fast are the relative auto focus rates of the D7 and E10. I am used
to my F5 snapping nearly instantaneously into perfect focus. Murray Z,
today, found the D7 unusable for this slowness. Is this a killer?

How do the LED displays compare?

D7 = 603 g, E10 = 1050 g. The one think I least like about the F5 is
that it feels like I am toting a bowling ball while mountain climbing
with it. This seems like a significant, ergonomic advantage to the D7.

D7 = battery hog, E10 = less hoggish. I have read horror stories of 75
minutes battery life with the D7 and a 1 GB drive. Is the E10
significantly less voracious?

How do the image viewer utilities compare?

How do the flashes and add on lenses compare?

I have heard horror stories about the reliability of 1 GB microdrives.
Numerous people have recommended that I buy 3, 256+ MB, CF cards and
rest easier. I sure would like to shoot 72 TIFs at once!

The reviewer in http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/page21.asp
(Jul 9 2001) rates the D7 as Recommended Prosumer but lists the E10
(Jan 16, 2001) as Highly Recommended Professional. Have 6 months of
digicam evolution raised the bar to make the D7 meet a higher standard?

What else have I missed?

Thank you,

BrianP
--BrianP

F.J. · Aug 1, 2001

Yikes! I like to quantify too, but...

At least you do this sensibly, unlike some other posts that we've had.

Anyway, I don't have a D7, so I can only comment on some E10 stuff, and not many of your points, either. I'll cut out those I can't comment upon. But, if it helps...

BrianP said:
Olympus E-10 vs. Minolta Dimage 7 comparison

I am about to purchase a slick, new, digital camera for general
purpose
shooting (parties, portraits, landscapes, close-ups, ...) and have
boiled
the decision down to a few critical comparison points. I am curious
about
how enlightened, current users weight these differences.

I also own an F5 and can use it for any serious shooting I need to do.
But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys) and I have little
patience for substandard engineering.

Well we've established that you like the best. Good. (For purposes of promoting peace and harmony, the F5 and The EOS1 are both
"the best"--- BTW I'm a Nikonophile, too.)

In general, the E10 is considered exceptionally well engineered and laid out. It is not built like an F5, but it is respectable when compared. A pro who posts here won't touch a D7 because he says it's built like a consumer camera.

The E10 was quite impressive

BrianP said:
and others I know who own one love them.

---Oh Yes--

BrianP said:
Just to lob a bit of napalm on the fire, here are the main
differences I
have found so far:

D7 = 4.9 MPix, E10 = 3.7 MPix. 33% difference! Since they both use
a 2/3
CCD, is this difference significant or can I just resize an E10
picture
in Photoshop (or use Genuine Fractals) and achieve the same picture
size?
Is it a real difference or just a marketing trick? On the
resolution tests
(rescharts), the D7 shows much more moire patterns possibly indicating
that the results are interpolated?

More pixels are better, if you rule out all other factors -- but you can never do that. Ressing up can do wonders, but its not a catch-all. How big do you need to go?

BrianP said:
D7 = 28 mm - 200 mm w/7x zoom, E10 = 35 mm - 140 mm w/4x zoom. This
seems
like the single biggest advantage to the D7. Are the lenses of
comparable
quality? Does the increased E10 speed (f2.0 vs. f2.8) make up for
this?

Digitals LOVE light. As fighter pilots say "Speed is life" I'd stick a noct-nikkor f1.2 on my oly if I could... (we can dream)

Also, both will blur backgrounds less (due to characteristics of chip size) so faster will give you more blur, if that's important to you.

BrianP said:
D7 has digital 2x zoom, E10 has none. How do the pictures look with
the
digital zoom (at 14x)? Is it useful?

Digital zoom is worthless. If you want to do that, take the shot at max. optical zoom, then interpolate (with GF or Photoshop), enlarge, and crop on your PC -- More control.

If you want to "reach out and touch someone" with the oly, get the TCON 300S -- 420mm, f/2.8, $480.00 or so.

BrianP said:
D7 = F2.8 - F3.5, E10 = F2.0 - F2.8. This seems like the biggest
advantage to the E10. Is this increased speed more important than more
zoom range?

Mentioned above. Extension lenses will get you farther with E-10 (defeating some of the greater zoom issue), but you can never get faster with a D7, though it does have a higher Iso, so you'd need to directly compare images. Use Phil's comparisons at this site. Under Buying Guide, side-by-side.

BrianP said:
D7 has "Flex Focus Point", E10 doesn't seem to. If this works, I would
like to have it. IS it useful?

Daft if I know. To me, it seems that I would have to select which one I want to use -- which wouldn't work for spur-of-the-moment. E10 has tight spot focus, so you focus, then recompose and shoot. Simple. Quick.

BrianP said:
D7 min shutter time = 1/2000 sec, E10 = 1/640. This seems like a
significant advantage to the D7, especially in very bright light or
with
fast action.

In those situations, it is, alll other things being equal (which they aren't) of course. ND filters can somewhat make up for the bright light issue.

BrianP said:
D7 max shutter time = 4 sec, E10 = 2. Since both can be bulbed to 30
seconds, does this matter?

E-10 on manual can go to eight sec with accurate metering. At bulb, you're on your own. I wouldn't go much longer than that on a digital - get more noise.

BrianP said:
D7 metering has 300 segment metering, E10 has "ESP Digital". My F5 has
1005 segments so naturally I like many segments. How does ESP compare
to 300 segment? Which camera has better metering (and I am used to F5
accuracy)?

Neither is anywhere near 3d Matrix. Most of us use "traditional" center-weighted or the Spot- Spot again- Compensate method.

BrianP said:
D7 has +-2EV +-1/3 exposure adjustment, E10 has +-3EV +-1/3. Can't you
just adjust time or aperture to make this point mute?

Yes, but it is COMPENSATION off of whatever mode you're shooting in - in case you think you won't be spot-on. Your F5 must have EV comp, so you know what it's for.

BrianP said:
D7 has 3 image bracketing in .3, .5, or 1.0 EV steps. E10 has .3, .7,
1.0. With accurate metering, I never use 1.0. Wouldn't 2 small steps
(.3 and .5) be better than one small and a medium (.3 and .7). Very
small real difference?

.3 and .7 more evenly divide up 1 EV. But, I don't use it too often.

BrianP said:
D7 can also bracket on color saturation and contrast. I don't see this
feature on the E10. Is this better done in software later?

I would do it in Post Processing. More control. Digitals really need a little tweaking to be at their best

BrianP said:
D7 has auto, custom, daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and cloudy white
balance, E10 has "One-Touch" WB. Can I just carry around a white
sheet of
paper to set the white balance with the E10?

Yes.

Also note that e-10 has 5 preset WBs plus auto, as well.

BrianP said:
D7 shoots 1.1 FPS for 4 images, E10 shoots 3 FPS. This seems like a
big
advantage for the E10 (my F5 shoots 8 FPS). I have also read that
the D7
autofocus is slow. It seems as though the slow continuous shooting
rate
and slow AF are 2 of the least desirable features in the D7.

I'd agree. E-10 focus is fast. I like that. Also, I like the burst, I's not bad - not a Nikon C, though.

BrianP said:
How fast are the relative auto focus rates of the D7 and E10. I am
used
to my F5 snapping nearly instantaneously into perfect focus. Murray Z,
today, found the D7 unusable for this slowness. Is this a killer?

Read Phil's reviews for accurate specs. Under the Timings & File Sizes pages. Just click the page you want from the dropdown on the main review page.

BrianP said:
How do the LED displays compare?

E-10 is a little jerky during live preview, fine in review.
Can the D7 do live preview?

BrianP said:
D7 = 603 g, E10 = 1050 g. The one think I least like about the F5 is
that it feels like I am toting a bowling ball while mountain climbing
with it. This seems like a significant, ergonomic advantage to the D7.

C'mon. You know that lighter isn't better. Seriously, E10 really isn't heavy, and seems lighter than film SLRs. (to me)

BrianP said:
D7 = battery hog, E10 = less hoggish. I have read horror stories of 75
minutes battery life with the D7 and a 1 GB drive. Is the E10
significantly less voracious?

E-10 does great on 1800 mAh NiMh's. Run a search for "nuclear cores" in this forum and you'll find a testimonial.

BrianP said:
How do the image viewer utilities compare?

Oly's is passable. Most of us use third party of one sort or another ACDsee is popular.

BrianP said:
How do the flashes and add on lenses compare?

The Fl40 is great. the popup is pretty good. Using them together has novel aspects, too.

I don't have any of the extensions, but they are of excellent quality, from what is reported here.

BrianP said:
I have heard horror stories about the reliability of 1 GB microdrives.
Numerous people have recommended that I buy 3, 256+ MB, CF cards and
rest easier. I sure would like to shoot 72 TIFs at once!

Use CF's. Take no chances.

BrianP said:
What else have I missed?

Will think about it and post if I come up with anything. You are rather thorough.

BrianP said:
Thank you,

BrianP
No sweat. Hope it was of marginal help.

Take Care, Take Pictures, enjoy life,

F.J.

BrianP said:
--
BrianP

Jaja · Aug 1, 2001

Hello BrianP,

Well, every decision is a difficult one ...
After over 26.000 images, I can share my E-10 experiences ...

BrianP said:
D7 = 4.9 MPix, E10 = 3.7 MPix. 33% difference! Since they both use
a 2/3
CCD, is this difference significant or can I just resize an E10
picture
in Photoshop (or use Genuine Fractals) and achieve the same picture
size?
Is it a real difference or just a marketing trick? On the
resolution tests
(rescharts), the D7 shows much more moire patterns possibly indicating
that the results are interpolated?

It isn't all wabout pixels. The E-10 has a lot more pixels than my former Nikon CP990, but that wasn't the main reason for buying the E-10.

BrianP said:
D7 = 12 bit ADC, E10 = 10 bit? Does the D7 actually have 4x the
ability to differentiate colors?

The E-10 is known for it's remarkable colours, especially "the in between colours" (just forgot the right name for that - I'm a Belgian who tries to write in English

BrianP said:
D7 ISO = (100, 200, 400, 800), E10 = (80, 160, 320). From what I
have seen in noise tests, the D7's ISO 800 is pretty noisy. Is it worth using?
If not, do the other 3 ISO speeds for each compare more or less
equally?

To be honnest, I always shoot using ISO80, exceptionally ISO160 when there's no other choise. The E-10 images contain some noise, but it never has bothered me, and in prints, the noise isn't visible.

BrianP said:
D7 = 28 mm - 200 mm w/7x zoom, E10 = 35 mm - 140 mm w/4x zoom. > This seems like the single biggest advantage to the D7. Are the lenses of

comparable quality? Does the increased E10 speed (f2.0 vs. f2.8) make up for this?

The standard lenses are different at this point. But, Olympus has some high quality extra lenses that make the range from 28mm up to 610mm.

Even at 610mm tele, f/2.8 can be used ... and that for an affordable price.

BrianP said:
D7 has digital 2x zoom, E10 has none. How do the pictures look with
the digital zoom (at 14x)? Is it useful?

Forget all about digital zoom, it's a marketing trick, just blowing up the pixels, that's all ...

BrianP said:
D7 = F2.8 - F3.5, E10 = F2.0 - F2.8. This seems like the biggest
advantage to the E10. Is this increased speed more important than more
zoom range?

The E-10 offers even f/2.8 at 610mm tele - as mentioned above.

I do take 610mm handhold teleshots at 1/80 sec ...

BrianP said:
D7 has "Flex Focus Point", E10 doesn't seem to. If this works, I would
like to have it. IS it useful?

The E-10 has 3 autofocussing modes but no "flex". So, I can't comment on that. I think the Nikon CP990 has that to, but I never used it.

It's much more easy to focus and recompose ... or do you mean anything else?

BrianP said:
D7 min shutter time = 1/2000 sec, E10 = 1/640. This seems like a
significant advantage to the D7, especially in very bright light or
with fast action.

A high shutterspeed can be an advantage and I have "missed" some shots because of 1/640, but out of 26.000 photos, that would be 10 ...

BrianP said:
D7 max shutter time = 4 sec, E10 = 2. Since both can be bulbed to 30
seconds, does this matter?

E-10 has a maximum of 8 sec, but when we're talking about long shutterspeeds, bulb is most often used.

I don't think this is that important except for those who do a lot of nightshootings, but in that case, 2 sec is often more than enough.

BrianP said:
D7 metering has 300 segment metering, E10 has "ESP Digital". My F5 has

1005 segments so naturally I like many segments. How does ESP compare to 300 segment? Which camera has better metering (and I am used to F5 accuracy)?

Sorry, I can't comment on that. I only experienced that the E-10 measument is pretty accurate. I mostly use center weighted average ùetering and that does a great job in my case.

BrianP said:
D7 has +-2EV +-1/3 exposure adjustment, E10 has +-3EV +-1/3. Can't you just adjust time or aperture to make this point mute?

As I shoot often in P-mode (Perfect , I use a lot the EV settings.

Most of the time, I use up to EV -1.0 or + 1.0.
For sundowns, EV -3.0 in P-mode is easy ...

BrianP said:
D7 has 3 image bracketing in .3, .5, or 1.0 EV steps. E10 has .3, .7,
1.0. With accurate metering, I never use 1.0. Wouldn't 2 small steps
(.3 and .5) be better than one small and a medium (.3 and .7). Very
small real difference?

Since the E-10 measuring is pretty accurate, I never use bracketing ...

BrianP said:
D7 can also bracket on color saturation and contrast. I don't see this
feature on the E10. Is this better done in software later?

I do all post-processing afterwards. I like it better when I have it in control rather than the camera ...

BrianP said:
D7 has auto, custom, daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and cloudy white
balance, E10 has "One-Touch" WB. Can I just carry around a white
sheet of paper to set the white balance with the E10? Do the D7
presets work well?

The E-10 autowhitebalance does a great job, and when needed there's the quick reference mode (a white sheet of paper in front of the E-10).

BrianP said:
D7 shoots 1.1 FPS for 4 images, E10 shoots 3 FPS. This seems like a
big advantage for the E10 (my F5 shoots 8 FPS). I have also read that
the D7 autofocus is slow. It seems as though the slow continuous
shooting rate and slow AF are 2 of the least desirable features in the D7.

You can indeed shoot 4 images on a row (3/sec) with the E-10, but afterwards, it has to empty it's "buffer" and you will have to wait untill that's finished. That made me "loose" some shots when shooting fast sequences ... but the D7 will me more slowly I presume ...

That's one of the things I would change on the E-10: a larger buffer.
But in most situations, the E-10 does a perfect job.

BrianP said:
How fast are the relative auto focus rates of the D7 and E10. I am

used to my F5 snapping nearly instantaneously into perfect focus. Murray > Z, today, found the D7 unusable for this slowness. Is this a killer?

The E-10 autofocus is very fast. I even use autofocus for 610mm tele action shots ...

BrianP said:
How do the LED displays compare?

Well, I had a Canon pro 70 and that was a display!

The E-10 is fine for monitoring or occasionaly composing, but it's better in play than record mode - but it's not "bad".

BrianP said:
D7 = 603 g, E10 = 1050 g. The one think I least like about the F5 is
that it feels like I am toting a bowling ball while mountain climbing
with it. This seems like a significant, ergonomic advantage to the D7.

Forget that argument ...

The E-10 is a very well balanced camera. If a camera allows to shoot 610mm handheld teleshots at 1/80 sec, it must be very well balanced.

Forget that kind of shots wityh a "light" camera, you even can't think about it. With the standard lens, the E-10 allows handheld shots up to 1/15 sec - after some practicing of course.
Forget those shutterspeeds with a light camera ...

BrianP said:
D7 = battery hog, E10 = less hoggish. I have read horror stories of 75
minutes battery life with the D7 and a 1 GB drive. Is the E10
significantly less voracious?

The E-10 performs great regarding battery usage.

I manage to shoot nearly two 128MB CF-cards on one set of 1800MaH's ...

BrianP said:
How do the image viewer utilities compare?

Not that important. I don't know the Minolta software. I only use the Oly Camedia software to see some Exif-info ...

BrianP said:
How do the flashes and add on lenses compare?

Olympus has an excellent flash (FL-40) which works perfectly together with the E-10 build-in flash - they can be used together and perform perfectly in automatic mode - one don't has to adjust anything ...

Regarding extra lenses, Olympus has some great lenses.
Wcon-08B = 28mm wide (f/2.0)
Tcon-14B = 200mm tele (zoom from about 160 - 200mm) (f/2.0)
Tcon-300 = 410 mm tele with no zoom (f/2.8)
Tcon-300 and Tcon-14B can be used together using a 49-62mm step up ring (f/2.8)
Mcon-35 = macro lens

BrianP said:
I have heard horror stories about the reliability of 1 GB microdrives.
Numerous people have recommended that I buy 3, 256+ MB, CF cards
and rest easier. I sure would like to shoot 72 TIFs at once!

I don't use a microdrive, and have a lot of CF-cards. I never had have any faillure using CF-cards, so I will only use that kind of memory ...

BrianP said:
The reviewer in http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/page21.asp
(Jul 9 2001) rates the D7 as Recommended Prosumer but lists the E10
(Jan 16, 2001) as Highly Recommended Professional. Have 6 months of
digicam evolution raised the bar to make the D7 meet a higher
standard?

I think Phil has a reason: the E-10 performs like a "pro" and is build like a "pro". I have shot over 26.000 images since December 1th last year without any faillure or problem. Since I use a CF-cardreader, how many times will I have changed the CF-cards? Just an illustration of the build quialities of the E-10 ...

How many times should I have screwed an extra lens in front? (the black colour of the front "ring" has dissapeared

How many times would I have changed batteries?
And the E-10 still performs and operates as new ...

BrianP said:
What else have I missed?

Shooting comfort ...

The E-10 is a very comfortable camera to use. Every control is reached very quick (and that goes for the settings also).

You also missed Belgium Digital

I've put online some thousands of E-10 shots in various albums.
Take a look at those and you will know why I love the E-10 ...

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Dr. Gonzo · Aug 1, 2001

Here we go! Replies below:

BrianP said:
I also own an F5 and can use it for any serious shooting I need to do.
But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys) and I have little
patience for substandard engineering.

You've come to the right place!

BrianP said:
I can't find a D7 in Austin so I may ask some dumb questions which
could
be answered by a cursory examination. The E10 was quite impressive
and others I know who own one love them.

There are no dumb questions, only dumb people. hehe

BrianP said:
D7 = 4.9 MPix, E10 = 3.7 MPix. 33% difference! Since they both use
a 2/3
CCD, is this difference significant or can I just resize an E10
picture
in Photoshop (or use Genuine Fractals) and achieve the same picture
size?

All things being equal, more is better, of course.

BrianP said:
Is it a real difference or just a marketing trick?

Both. The difference is real insomuch as the D7 has more actual (sensed) pictures and they will show up in your final image size. The question, then, is whether the lens can resolve detail down to the level at which these pixels come into their own. Phil didn't think so. I don't know either way.

BrianP said:
On the
resolution tests
(rescharts), the D7 shows much more moire patterns possibly indicating
that the results are interpolated?

D7 = 12 bit ADC, E10 = 10 bit? Does the D7 actually have 4x the
ability to
differentiate colors?

I think the jury is still split on this issue, some say the D7 renders better color (after running through the Minolta utility, of course) while others say it doesn't. Either way, it's not clear whether this is due to the differences in bit depth anyway.

Another thing to add to the mix: the limitations of the file format you are using. Both of these cameras are really the most practical in JPEG mode, which AFAIK is limited to 24-bit color (8/channel).

BrianP said:
D7 ISO = (100, 200, 400, 800), E10 = (80, 160, 320). From what I
have seen
in noise tests, the D7's ISO 800 is pretty noisy. Is it worth using?
If not, do the other 3 ISO speeds for each compare more or less
equally?

The lower ISO ratings of the E-10 are due to the split prism design that allows the CCD and viewfinder to get the image at the same time. The numbers are pretty much true to life, as far as I can tell.

AS for the usability of the higher ISOs -- in general, especialyl with digitals, you run the lowest ISO you can get away with. But then do you break out the high ISO? Two cases with film, a long, somewhat slow zoom lens, and for fast action in low light. The slow zoom lens is a problem with neither camera, and fast action is something the D7 doesn't do well anyway, so the point may be moot. In simple low light situations without fast action, it's much preferable to use a slower shutter with a lower ISO anyway.

BrianP said:
D7 = 28 mm - 200 mm w/7x zoom, E10 = 35 mm - 140 mm w/4x zoom. This
seems
like the single biggest advantage to the D7. Are the lenses of
comparable
quality?

It is the single biggest advantage to the D7. Apparently, the lenses are both excellent optically.

BrianP said:
Does the increased E10 speed (f2.0 vs. f2.8) make up for
this?

Someone in the Minolta forum posted that when all factors are considered, the two cameras are about the same "speed". (e.g. the lower ISO ratings of the E10, the smaller wide aperture of the D7, etc.)

BrianP said:
D7 has digital 2x zoom, E10 has none. How do the pictures look with
the
digital zoom (at 14x)? Is it useful?

Digital zoom is a non-feature as far as anyone who is concerned with image quality is concerned.

BrianP said:
D7 = F2.8 - F3.5, E10 = F2.0 - F2.8. This seems like the biggest
advantage to the E10. Is this increased speed more important than more
zoom range?

See above.

BrianP said:
D7 has "Flex Focus Point", E10 doesn't seem to. If this works, I would
like to have it. IS it useful?

I personally don't think I would find it more useful and certianly not faster than either autofocusing and re-composing or manual focusing. There has been some recent posting in the Minolta forum about the exposure metering following the flex focus, which would seem useful, however it apparently only works this way in matrix mode, so a tight, spot metering on the object you pick out with flex focus is not possible. I would submit that focus-locking and AE-locking on your subject and recomposing with the E-10 is still faster and more effective, because you can use spot or centerweight metering with that method. The situations in which the D7 flex focus truly does something worthwhile are very, very limited.

BrianP said:
D7 min shutter time = 1/2000 sec, E10 = 1/640. This seems like a
significant advantage to the D7, especially in very bright light or
with
fast action.

Well in practice, the very bright light factor is the only real concern of these two (people talk about ND filters, but it is always easier to just be able to achieve the right exposure without screwing on a filter). Fast action, so it is coming to light, is not a strong point of the D7.

Also the D7's max F8 - F9.5 slighty helps mitigate the shutter speed issue (The E-10's max is F11)

BrianP said:
D7 max shutter time = 4 sec, E10 = 2. Since both can be bulbed to 30
seconds, does this matter?

Someone else answered this.

BrianP said:
D7 metering has 300 segment metering, E10 has "ESP Digital". My F5 has
1005 segments so naturally I like many segments. How does ESP compare
to 300 segment? Which camera has better metering (and I am used to F5
accuracy)?

Without using all three, I can't comment.

BrianP said:
D7 has +-2EV +-1/3 exposure adjustment, E10 has +-3EV +-1/3. Can't you
just adjust time or aperture to make this point mute?

Yes, the shutter speed and aperture are essentially fully adjustable on both cameras.

BrianP said:
D7 has 3 image bracketing in .3, .5, or 1.0 EV steps. E10 has .3, .7,
1.0. With accurate metering, I never use 1.0. Wouldn't 2 small steps
(.3 and .5) be better than one small and a medium (.3 and .7). Very
small real difference?

Not enough experience with bracketing to answer this one.

BrianP said:
D7 can also bracket on color saturation and contrast. I don't see this
feature on the E10. Is this better done in software later?

Most would argue yes. The E-10's great dynamic range allows quite a bit of latitude in contrast and saturation that is best done with Photoshop or the like.

BrianP said:
D7 has auto, custom, daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and cloudy white
balance, E10 has "One-Touch" WB. Can I just carry around a white
sheet of
paper to set the white balance with the E10? Do the D7 presets work
well?

Yes, the E-10 one-touch WB works the way you say. It also has 7 presets (vs. D7's 4) and auto.

BrianP said:
D7 shoots 1.1 FPS for 4 images, E10 shoots 3 FPS. This seems like a
big
advantage for the E10 (my F5 shoots 8 FPS). I have also read that
the D7
autofocus is slow. It seems as though the slow continuous shooting
rate
and slow AF are 2 of the least desirable features in the D7.

Hard to argue with that. Yes, the E-10's drive mode is quite good up until you hit the buffer limit (4 frames). And the E-10's AF is apparently much faster, allowing certain types of shots users of D7 report trouble with or sheer inability.

BrianP said:
How fast are the relative auto focus rates of the D7 and E10. I am
used
to my F5 snapping nearly instantaneously into perfect focus. Murray Z,
today, found the D7 unusable for this slowness. Is this a killer?

I would consider it so. Without actually trying the D7 myself I can't say with 100% certainty, but reports seem to say the D7 averages 1 second for AF. My E-10 is usually at least twice that fast (

BrianP said:
How do the LED displays compare?

I suspect the D7's is better, the E-10s (in preview mode) is only really useful for framing and general evaluation of state of focus. However, the D7's LCD seems to hack the batteries especially hard.

BrianP said:
D7 = 603 g, E10 = 1050 g. The one think I least like about the F5 is
that it feels like I am toting a bowling ball while mountain climbing
with it. This seems like a significant, ergonomic advantage to the D7.

I think the E-10 is lighter than an F5, but certainly the D7 is a good bit lighter still. This is a matter of personal preference, and to me, the relatively (for a digicam) heavy weight is both a pro and a con.

BrianP said:
D7 = battery hog, E10 = less hoggish. I have read horror stories of 75
minutes battery life with the D7 and a 1 GB drive. Is the E10
significantly less voracious?

Apparently so.

BrianP said:
How do the image viewer utilities compare?

I am not sure because I don't use the Oly image viewing utility, and I would suggest that if you have standalone editing and cataloging software, you don't need to either. But if you buy Minolta you will have to use their viewing software or you won't be getting the full color capabilities out of the camera.

BrianP said:
How do the flashes and add on lenses compare?

Functionally, probably similar. However sheer availability and versatility goes, hands down, to the E-10. There are more lens accessories available for the E-10 (even if you count out the ones that are taken up by the D7's added focal length ranges), it uses a standard hot shoe, you can get a portrait grip/battery pack, the built in flash can be used with an external flash, you can use a hard-bodied underwater housing for the E-10 (no telescoping lens, I don't think the D7 would work in such a case). I'm sure there are more that I'm leaving out.

BrianP said:
I have heard horror stories about the reliability of 1 GB microdrives.
Numerous people have recommended that I buy 3, 256+ MB, CF cards and
rest easier. I sure would like to shoot 72 TIFs at once!

The consensus seems to be that the 1GB works fine in the D7, but not always in the E10. The 340MB seems to work in both.

BrianP said:
The reviewer in
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/page21.asp
(Jul 9 2001) rates the D7 as Recommended Prosumer but lists the E10
(Jan 16, 2001) as Highly Recommended Professional. Have 6 months of
digicam evolution raised the bar to make the D7 meet a higher
standard?

IMO, the D7 does not even reach the E-10's standard, and I think that's the bottom line. The D7 has a bunch of features the E-10 does not, but most are of dubious value, and the E-10 definitely "has it" where it counts -- in down-and-dirty basics such as speed of operation.

BrianP said:
What else have I missed?

Asside from the afforementioned F-stop differential, not much that I can think of right now.

Clif48131 · Aug 1, 2001

Hey Brian

I just got off the phone with Cole over at Precision Camera. He remembered that I was looking at the D7 but forgot I bought an E-10 from him instead about two months ago. He told me he had a D7 if I wanted it. I don't. Perfectly happy with my decision to go with the E-10 over the D7. So, if you want it, tell him Clif Moore sent you. And we'll miss you. Otherwise, get the E-10 and we'll talk. Maybe you, me and Ron Sprouse (an old-timer on this forum) can start our own Austin chapter.

Good luck with your decision.

Clif

Joe Hoddinott · Aug 1, 2001

As most folks here have the E-10 and not a D7 I'll comment on the few things not covered. I own an E-10 and I spent about half an hour with the D7 - keep this in mind. I'll try not to reiterate any previously posted info.

BrianP said:
AF

The D7 took as long as 1.5 seconds to attain focus on a STILL subject. ONE AND A HALF SECONDS!!!! This is unacceptable in my book, as sometimes my subjects move (ie- children, pets, etc.) Having used an F5 (and awaiting my D1x) I'm sure that you will find this AF to be a joke as well, unless you're shooting exclusively landscapes. While the E-10's AF is not on the same playing field as F5, it's deffinitely fast and accurate.

BrianP said:
WB

The E-10's white balance has the standard seven presets, auto, and the one touch. I didn't see anyone mention the seven presets in their prevoius posts. These are more than adequite.

BrianP said:
EVF

The D7 has an LCD viewfinder, not optical, whereas the E-10 allows the user to see TTL like an SLR but with the assistance of a mirror and prism.

This makes for comfortable MF with the E-10, and heightens the film to digital comfort curve. The negative thing about the E-10's prism viewfinder is that it allows light to enter via the viewfinder. If I can offer one tip, it's remember to close off the eyepiece (lower-left side of eyepiece - shown in the image below.) when shooting through the LCD.

That's my 2 cents....good luck in your decision.

Jono Slack29833 · Aug 1, 2001

Hi Brian

I'm not going to go through all the details, as others have done it really well. Just a couple of things I would say in favour of the E-10 (well, you have come to the OLY forum).

1. The real optical viewfinder - some have said that they miss the split prism, but I really like this bright viewfinder, and would be very loth to swap it for an electric one.

2. Build quality:
you say

BrianP said:
BrianP said:

But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys)

Click to expand...

I owned a Nikon F100 and various Contax cameras prior to the E-10, but my first digital was an OLY 3030 - I was gobsmacked by the results, but I HATED fiddling about with the nasty plastic thing. The E-10 may not feel as good as the F100, but it's so close as not to matter - really - this is a fabulous camera ergonomically, and a pleasure to use.

I'd love a 28-200 lense . . . but I know I wouldn't be happy with somthing which is as plasticky as the D7 for more than a week or so.

hope this helps
kind regards
jono slack
http://www.slack.co.uk

BrianP said:
snip

Tom Cheswick · Aug 1, 2001

I am also considering the d-7 and e-10. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that one advantage that the e-10 has is that it has a usable RAW format.

I know that both cameras have a RAW format, but with the d-7, you get one shot, the screen then goes black for about 30 seconds until the file has been written. You can not take another RAW format shot until the camera writes the first file. On the e-10, you can do a 4 shot burst in RAW mode, but then you have to wait for the buffer to clear. This is a huge advantage for the e-10. I want to take portraits of a family at the highest quality. I can take a few shots with the e-10 and only one with the d-7. People are not going to hold a pose for 30 seconds while a camera is writing a file.

Am I correct, or am I missing something. Please let me know.

Thanks for any help,

Tom Cheswick
http://www.cheswickphoto.com

Dr. Gonzo said:
Another thing to add to the mix: the limitations of the file format
you are using. Both of these cameras are really the most practical
in JPEG mode, which AFAIK is limited to 24-bit color (8/channel).

Dr. Gonzo · Aug 1, 2001

I just tried it out and here are the findings:

1) You can shoot in RAW mode in normal single shot OR drive mode. Both work just the same as in JPEG mode up to the 4 shot buffer limit.

2) You don't have to wait for the entire buffer to clear before taking the next shot, you just have to wait for one frame to clear out.

Tom Cheswick said:
I know that both cameras have a RAW format, but with the d-7, you
get one shot, the screen then goes black for about 30 seconds until
the file has been written. You can not take another RAW format
shot until the camera writes the first file. On the e-10, you can
do a 4 shot burst in RAW mode, but then you have to wait for the
buffer to clear. This is a huge advantage for the e-10. I want to
take portraits of a family at the highest quality. I can take a
few shots with the e-10 and only one with the d-7. People are not
going to hold a pose for 30 seconds while a camera is writing a
file.

Am I correct, or am I missing something. Please let me know.

Thanks for any help,

Tom Cheswick
http://www.cheswickphoto.com

Tom Cheswick said:

Another thing to add to the mix: the limitations of the file format
you are using. Both of these cameras are really the most practical
in JPEG mode, which AFAIK is limited to 24-bit color (8/channel).

Click to expand...

Jono Slack29833 · Aug 1, 2001

Hi Tom

dunno if you're right about the D-7, but you certainly are right about the E-10 . . . though many of us cloth-eyes can't tell the difference between raw and JPEG!

kind regards
jono slack

think - quick focus - optical viewfinder - ergonomics - build quality.

or

great zoom range - more pixels

that's about it as far as I can see.

Tom Cheswick said:
I know that both cameras have a RAW format, but with the d-7, you
get one shot, the screen then goes black for about 30 seconds until
the file has been written. You can not take another RAW format
shot until the camera writes the first file. On the e-10, you can
do a 4 shot burst in RAW mode, but then you have to wait for the
buffer to clear. This is a huge advantage for the e-10. I want to
take portraits of a family at the highest quality. I can take a
few shots with the e-10 and only one with the d-7. People are not
going to hold a pose for 30 seconds while a camera is writing a
file.

Am I correct, or am I missing something. Please let me know.

Thanks for any help,

Tom Cheswick
http://www.cheswickphoto.com

Tom Cheswick said:

Another thing to add to the mix: the limitations of the file format
you are using. Both of these cameras are really the most practical
in JPEG mode, which AFAIK is limited to 24-bit color (8/channel).

Click to expand...

Jaja · Aug 1, 2001

Hello Jono,

That's how we know you: a man who don't need many words ...

))

OR

The photos say it all ...

BTW, shouldn't we go to sleep now?

))

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Jono Slack said:
kind regards
jono slack

think - quick focus - optical viewfinder - ergonomics - build quality.

or

great zoom range - more pixels

that's about it as far as I can see.

Tom Cheswick said:

I know that both cameras have a RAW format, but with the d-7, you
get one shot, the screen then goes black for about 30 seconds until
the file has been written. You can not take another RAW format
shot until the camera writes the first file. On the e-10, you can
do a 4 shot burst in RAW mode, but then you have to wait for the
buffer to clear. This is a huge advantage for the e-10. I want to
take portraits of a family at the highest quality. I can take a
few shots with the e-10 and only one with the d-7. People are not
going to hold a pose for 30 seconds while a camera is writing a
file.

Am I correct, or am I missing something. Please let me know.

Thanks for any help,

Tom Cheswick
http://www.cheswickphoto.com

Jono Slack29833 said:

Another thing to add to the mix: the limitations of the file format
you are using. Both of these cameras are really the most practical
in JPEG mode, which AFAIK is limited to 24-bit color (8/channel).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Jono Slack29833 · Aug 1, 2001

Hi Jaja
Well - around here everyone says that I talk too much!

as for sleep, we certainly should do - I was here at 8 this morning:

have a good sleep
jono

Jaja - Belgium Digital said:
That's how we know you: a man who don't need many words ... ))

OR

The photos say it all ...

BTW, shouldn't we go to sleep now? ))

Jaja
http://www.belgiumdigital.com

Jono Slack said:

kind regards
jono slack

think - quick focus - optical viewfinder - ergonomics - build quality.

or

great zoom range - more pixels

that's about it as far as I can see.

Tom Cheswick said:

I know that both cameras have a RAW format, but with the d-7, you
get one shot, the screen then goes black for about 30 seconds until
the file has been written. You can not take another RAW format
shot until the camera writes the first file. On the e-10, you can
do a 4 shot burst in RAW mode, but then you have to wait for the
buffer to clear. This is a huge advantage for the e-10. I want to
take portraits of a family at the highest quality. I can take a
few shots with the e-10 and only one with the d-7. People are not
going to hold a pose for 30 seconds while a camera is writing a
file.

Am I correct, or am I missing something. Please let me know.

Thanks for any help,

Tom Cheswick
http://www.cheswickphoto.com

Member said:

Another thing to add to the mix: the limitations of the file format
you are using. Both of these cameras are really the most practical
in JPEG mode, which AFAIK is limited to 24-bit color (8/channel).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Frank B · Aug 2, 2001

I held the Dimage 7 in my hands for the first time today. Whatever, it's merits I simply could not live with the EVF viewfinder.

Frank B

BrianP said:
Olympus E-10 vs. Minolta Dimage 7 comparison

I am about to purchase a slick, new, digital camera for general
purpose
shooting (parties, portraits, landscapes, close-ups, ...) and have
boiled
the decision down to a few critical comparison points. I am curious
about
how enlightened, current users weight these differences.

I also own an F5 and can use it for any serious shooting I need to do.
But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys) and I have little
patience for substandard engineering.

I can't find a D7 in Austin so I may ask some dumb questions which
could
be answered by a cursory examination. The E10 was quite impressive
and others I know who own one love them.

Just to lob a bit of napalm on the fire, here are the main
differences I
have found so far:

D7 = 4.9 MPix, E10 = 3.7 MPix. 33% difference! Since they both use
a 2/3
CCD, is this difference significant or can I just resize an E10
picture
in Photoshop (or use Genuine Fractals) and achieve the same picture
size?
Is it a real difference or just a marketing trick? On the
resolution tests
(rescharts), the D7 shows much more moire patterns possibly indicating
that the results are interpolated?

D7 = 12 bit ADC, E10 = 10 bit? Does the D7 actually have 4x the
ability to
differentiate colors?

D7 ISO = (100, 200, 400, 800), E10 = (80, 160, 320). From what I
have seen
in noise tests, the D7's ISO 800 is pretty noisy. Is it worth using?
If not, do the other 3 ISO speeds for each compare more or less
equally?

D7 = 28 mm - 200 mm w/7x zoom, E10 = 35 mm - 140 mm w/4x zoom. This
seems
like the single biggest advantage to the D7. Are the lenses of
comparable
quality? Does the increased E10 speed (f2.0 vs. f2.8) make up for
this?

D7 has digital 2x zoom, E10 has none. How do the pictures look with
the
digital zoom (at 14x)? Is it useful?

D7 = F2.8 - F3.5, E10 = F2.0 - F2.8. This seems like the biggest
advantage to the E10. Is this increased speed more important than more
zoom range?

D7 has "Flex Focus Point", E10 doesn't seem to. If this works, I would
like to have it. IS it useful?

D7 min shutter time = 1/2000 sec, E10 = 1/640. This seems like a
significant advantage to the D7, especially in very bright light or
with
fast action.

D7 max shutter time = 4 sec, E10 = 2. Since both can be bulbed to 30
seconds, does this matter?

D7 metering has 300 segment metering, E10 has "ESP Digital". My F5 has
1005 segments so naturally I like many segments. How does ESP compare
to 300 segment? Which camera has better metering (and I am used to F5
accuracy)?

D7 has +-2EV +-1/3 exposure adjustment, E10 has +-3EV +-1/3. Can't you
just adjust time or aperture to make this point mute?

D7 has 3 image bracketing in .3, .5, or 1.0 EV steps. E10 has .3, .7,
1.0. With accurate metering, I never use 1.0. Wouldn't 2 small steps
(.3 and .5) be better than one small and a medium (.3 and .7). Very
small real difference?

D7 can also bracket on color saturation and contrast. I don't see this
feature on the E10. Is this better done in software later?

D7 has auto, custom, daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and cloudy white
balance, E10 has "One-Touch" WB. Can I just carry around a white
sheet of
paper to set the white balance with the E10? Do the D7 presets work
well?

D7 shoots 1.1 FPS for 4 images, E10 shoots 3 FPS. This seems like a
big
advantage for the E10 (my F5 shoots 8 FPS). I have also read that
the D7
autofocus is slow. It seems as though the slow continuous shooting
rate
and slow AF are 2 of the least desirable features in the D7.

How fast are the relative auto focus rates of the D7 and E10. I am
used
to my F5 snapping nearly instantaneously into perfect focus. Murray Z,
today, found the D7 unusable for this slowness. Is this a killer?

How do the LED displays compare?

D7 = 603 g, E10 = 1050 g. The one think I least like about the F5 is
that it feels like I am toting a bowling ball while mountain climbing
with it. This seems like a significant, ergonomic advantage to the D7.

D7 = battery hog, E10 = less hoggish. I have read horror stories of 75
minutes battery life with the D7 and a 1 GB drive. Is the E10
significantly less voracious?

How do the image viewer utilities compare?

How do the flashes and add on lenses compare?

I have heard horror stories about the reliability of 1 GB microdrives.
Numerous people have recommended that I buy 3, 256+ MB, CF cards and
rest easier. I sure would like to shoot 72 TIFs at once!

The reviewer in
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/page21.asp
(Jul 9 2001) rates the D7 as Recommended Prosumer but lists the E10
(Jan 16, 2001) as Highly Recommended Professional. Have 6 months of
digicam evolution raised the bar to make the D7 meet a higher
standard?

What else have I missed?

Thank you,

BrianP

--
BrianP

Ger Bee · Aug 2, 2001

BrianP said:
I also own an F5 and can use it for any serious shooting I need to do.
But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys) and I have little
patience for substandard engineering.

Have read no further - P* O and BUY the D1X
Moron.

Glenn Anderson · Aug 3, 2001

One item that you left out of your list was the Optiical viewfinder of the E-10 vs
the LCD one of the D7.

I had a chance to quickly look through the D7's LCD viewer and was quite

disappointed. It lacked the resolution/quality of the optical viewfinder. Areas were
washed out in bright light. It took a long while to adjust when moved from
a dark area (under deep shade) to a bright sunny area.

Also it was very jerky in it's updates, about the same level as the E-10 LCD viewfinder.

JohanP · Aug 3, 2001

Hi

I saw that you currently owns a F5. Nothing compares to that cam, autofocus, build quality or exposure.. keep it and buy a Coolscan. I have owned an E10, very good cam, but I sold it and bought a F100 + Coolscan IVed and I think that this works better for me. The obvious choice for you ought to be a D1X, but the price is a drawback.
Best regards
Johan

BrianP said:
Olympus E-10 vs. Minolta Dimage 7 comparison

I am about to purchase a slick, new, digital camera for general
purpose
shooting (parties, portraits, landscapes, close-ups, ...) and have
boiled
the decision down to a few critical comparison points. I am curious
about
how enlightened, current users weight these differences.

I also own an F5 and can use it for any serious shooting I need to do.
But I do appreciate finely crafted tools (toys) and I have little
patience for substandard engineering.

I can't find a D7 in Austin so I may ask some dumb questions which
could
be answered by a cursory examination. The E10 was quite impressive
and others I know who own one love them.

Just to lob a bit of napalm on the fire, here are the main
differences I
have found so far:

D7 = 4.9 MPix, E10 = 3.7 MPix. 33% difference! Since they both use
a 2/3
CCD, is this difference significant or can I just resize an E10
picture
in Photoshop (or use Genuine Fractals) and achieve the same picture
size?
Is it a real difference or just a marketing trick? On the
resolution tests
(rescharts), the D7 shows much more moire patterns possibly indicating
that the results are interpolated?

D7 = 12 bit ADC, E10 = 10 bit? Does the D7 actually have 4x the
ability to
differentiate colors?

D7 ISO = (100, 200, 400, 800), E10 = (80, 160, 320). From what I
have seen
in noise tests, the D7's ISO 800 is pretty noisy. Is it worth using?
If not, do the other 3 ISO speeds for each compare more or less
equally?

D7 = 28 mm - 200 mm w/7x zoom, E10 = 35 mm - 140 mm w/4x zoom. This
seems
like the single biggest advantage to the D7. Are the lenses of
comparable
quality? Does the increased E10 speed (f2.0 vs. f2.8) make up for
this?

D7 has digital 2x zoom, E10 has none. How do the pictures look with
the
digital zoom (at 14x)? Is it useful?

D7 = F2.8 - F3.5, E10 = F2.0 - F2.8. This seems like the biggest
advantage to the E10. Is this increased speed more important than more
zoom range?

D7 has "Flex Focus Point", E10 doesn't seem to. If this works, I would
like to have it. IS it useful?

D7 min shutter time = 1/2000 sec, E10 = 1/640. This seems like a
significant advantage to the D7, especially in very bright light or
with
fast action.

D7 max shutter time = 4 sec, E10 = 2. Since both can be bulbed to 30
seconds, does this matter?

D7 metering has 300 segment metering, E10 has "ESP Digital". My F5 has
1005 segments so naturally I like many segments. How does ESP compare
to 300 segment? Which camera has better metering (and I am used to F5
accuracy)?

D7 has +-2EV +-1/3 exposure adjustment, E10 has +-3EV +-1/3. Can't you
just adjust time or aperture to make this point mute?

D7 has 3 image bracketing in .3, .5, or 1.0 EV steps. E10 has .3, .7,
1.0. With accurate metering, I never use 1.0. Wouldn't 2 small steps
(.3 and .5) be better than one small and a medium (.3 and .7). Very
small real difference?

D7 can also bracket on color saturation and contrast. I don't see this
feature on the E10. Is this better done in software later?

D7 has auto, custom, daylight, tungsten, fluorescent and cloudy white
balance, E10 has "One-Touch" WB. Can I just carry around a white
sheet of
paper to set the white balance with the E10? Do the D7 presets work
well?

D7 shoots 1.1 FPS for 4 images, E10 shoots 3 FPS. This seems like a
big
advantage for the E10 (my F5 shoots 8 FPS). I have also read that
the D7
autofocus is slow. It seems as though the slow continuous shooting
rate
and slow AF are 2 of the least desirable features in the D7.

How fast are the relative auto focus rates of the D7 and E10. I am
used
to my F5 snapping nearly instantaneously into perfect focus. Murray Z,
today, found the D7 unusable for this slowness. Is this a killer?

How do the LED displays compare?

D7 = 603 g, E10 = 1050 g. The one think I least like about the F5 is
that it feels like I am toting a bowling ball while mountain climbing
with it. This seems like a significant, ergonomic advantage to the D7.

D7 = battery hog, E10 = less hoggish. I have read horror stories of 75
minutes battery life with the D7 and a 1 GB drive. Is the E10
significantly less voracious?

How do the image viewer utilities compare?

How do the flashes and add on lenses compare?

I have heard horror stories about the reliability of 1 GB microdrives.
Numerous people have recommended that I buy 3, 256+ MB, CF cards and
rest easier. I sure would like to shoot 72 TIFs at once!

The reviewer in
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/page21.asp
(Jul 9 2001) rates the D7 as Recommended Prosumer but lists the E10
(Jan 16, 2001) as Highly Recommended Professional. Have 6 months of
digicam evolution raised the bar to make the D7 meet a higher
standard?

What else have I missed?

Thank you,

BrianP

--
BrianP

Dr. Gonzo · Aug 4, 2001

Although this almost a strict D7 issue, I'm going to append it to this post because I'll just be flamed if I post in the Minolta forum no matter how lightly I try to put it:

I am just not impressed with the D7 shots I have seen so far. I don't understand what it is. The D7 has more pixels than just about anything, supposedly has good clarity and color reproduction .... but for some reason, everything I've seen so far has left me flat.

Granted, it seems the level of general user over in the Minolta forum is substantially lower in terms of what they demand of their photographic equipment ...heck, they picked D7's

... and I must say that Phil was able to get some decent results with the D7. So I expected to see much more of the same. But so far, it hasn't materialized.

I can't put my finger on it. A lot of shots have lens flare (is that an issue with the D7? it seems downright difficult to get lens flare on an E-10) but others are clean and still don't have the "something" I'm used to seeing in photos posted in this forum. Maybe it's the blue/purple shift issue?

I also notice a lot of blown out highlights, maybe this is the dynamic range issue manifesting itself?

I am especially disappointed in the shots that have been run through the Minolta image viewer utility. They seem to be unrealistically contrasty and saturated to the point of ugliness. Phil's photos aside, I have seen only one nice flower shot from the D7, and it was a set shot. (I consider flowers fairly easy to get "nice" shots of.)

When I first came to this forum, there were postings by newbies as well as pros and 'old hands' too. What impressed me about the E-10 was that it was equally capable of stunning results in a newbie's hands or those of a more experienced photog.

I'd be interested to see what other E-10ers think. Have a look around the Minolta forum at the sample galleries that have been posted and think back about when you first got your E-10. Is it comparable? Am I hallucinating? Or is it really that hard to get nice results from the D7?

I am starting to see why Phil gave the D7 the image quality rating he did, yet did not in his review to specifically state why it rated the way it did vs other consumer cams. It's almost too subtle for words, but it makes a lot of difference to the eyes.

DF · Aug 4, 2001

Dr. Gonzo said:
Dr. Gonzo wrote:
Although this almost a strict D7 issue, I'm going to append it to
this post because I'll just be flamed if I post in the Minolta
forum no matter how lightly I try to put it:

Wise choice! You've become rather a persona non grata over there, haven't you, you naughty boy.

Dr. Gonzo said:
I am just not impressed with the D7 shots I have seen so far. I
don't understand what it is.

I know what you mean.......and I think that the subtle "je ne sais quoi" which makes the D7 images less appealing than the E-10's may well be largely a matter of dynamic range. If you compare Phil's measurements for the two (at normal sharpening, ISO = 100 for D7, 80 for E-10), there is a huge difference: D7 = 289:1 E-10 = 545:1

I suspect the eye compensates quickly for differences in hue and saturation, but perceptually I think there's a very large unconscious reaction to the presence or absence of a wide dynamic range. A wide DR creates a subtle but dramatic psychological impact on the viewer. D7 images just fall flat in this regard.

Just my theory...

Anyway, stay clear of those Minolta folks, Doctor -- you've become the scapegoat for their disappointment in their camera.

David

Ger Bee · Aug 4, 2001

Dr. Gonzo said:
I'd be interested to see what other E-10ers think. Have a look
around the Minolta forum at the sample galleries that have been
posted and think back about when you first got your E-10. Is it
comparable? Am I hallucinating? Or is it really that hard to get
nice results from the D7?

I more or less agree with all you say.

But I have no interest in wading through rubbish to confirm it is so - link a few - no more than 3 that you have found and I'll looksee as those. Thanks.

Frank B · Aug 4, 2001

You "took the words out of my mouth". I've had the same feeling when looking at Dimage 7 photos. However, I agree that Phil's samples are quite good and I am reserving judgment until I have seen a lot more photos.

Frank B

Dr. Gonzo said:
Although this almost a strict D7 issue, I'm going to append it to
this post because I'll just be flamed if I post in the Minolta
forum no matter how lightly I try to put it:

I am just not impressed with the D7 shots I have seen so far. I
don't understand what it is. The D7 has more pixels than just about
anything, supposedly has good clarity and color reproduction ....
but for some reason, everything I've seen so far has left me flat.

Granted, it seems the level of general user over in the Minolta
forum is substantially lower in terms of what they demand of their
photographic equipment ...heck, they picked D7's ... and I must
say that Phil was able to get some decent results with the D7. So I
expected to see much more of the same. But so far, it hasn't
materialized.

I can't put my finger on it. A lot of shots have lens flare (is
that an issue with the D7? it seems downright difficult to get lens
flare on an E-10) but others are clean and still don't have the
"something" I'm used to seeing in photos posted in this forum.
Maybe it's the blue/purple shift issue?
I also notice a lot of blown out highlights, maybe this is the
dynamic range issue manifesting itself?

I am especially disappointed in the shots that have been run
through the Minolta image viewer utility. They seem to be
unrealistically contrasty and saturated to the point of ugliness.
Phil's photos aside, I have seen only one nice flower shot from the
D7, and it was a set shot. (I consider flowers fairly easy to get
"nice" shots of.)

When I first came to this forum, there were postings by newbies as
well as pros and 'old hands' too. What impressed me about the E-10
was that it was equally capable of stunning results in a newbie's
hands or those of a more experienced photog.

I'd be interested to see what other E-10ers think. Have a look
around the Minolta forum at the sample galleries that have been
posted and think back about when you first got your E-10. Is it
comparable? Am I hallucinating? Or is it really that hard to get
nice results from the D7?

I am starting to see why Phil gave the D7 the image quality rating
he did, yet did not in his review to specifically state why it
rated the way it did vs other consumer cams. It's almost too subtle
for words, but it makes a lot of difference to the eyes.

E-10 vs. D7 point by point psycho analysis

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