V1 Macro (Comment Needed)

V1 John

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Hi,

Just bought a no-brand tele adapter with 52mm thread for my V1. bought Hoya +4, +3 and +2 closeup.

I hope you can tell me what is wrong with my photo. I can't seems to get the object very sharp.

All three photos taken with +4, +3 and +2 stacked together, without flash, V1 maximum zoom, speed 1/125, F8.0 and the spiders and ant size is around 6-7mm, thanks.







regards
 
Hi John,

The second and third ones have a sharp plane in them. Are you using autofocus? The DOF is shallow when shooting macro, the greater the magnification, the narrower the DOF. If you look closely, you will see a focus range that is sharp, the rest being OOF, quite natural for this type of shot. As mentioned in this forum before, the focus normally should be on the eyes, if it has eyes. You may want to try manual focus, then rock back and forth till the eyes come into focus. It takes some practice to become proficient at this, but when you do, it's well worth it. Also, make sure your shutter speed is high enough to prevent hand shake because it's prevelent in macro.

Keep practicing and have fun,
Chris
--
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Comments are always welcome.

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Hello Chris,

Thanks for your comments. Those creature were moving very fast, I can't use autofocus. Using the manual move front and back method. I will practise more.

Was wondering if stacking too much will cause the image to degrade?

regards
John
 
Chris has excellent advice there.

It does look like too much stacking IMO. I had to go check what a V1 was :-)) and at 4x optical with just +3 or +4 by themselves should be ok for most people. Also.......and I better say IMHO, try digital zoom as well. The reason being that from what it looks like here, it will be better than stacking anyway. Some cameras and especially from Sony I've noticed, the digital zoom algorithms are better than cropping with software........better say IMHO again :-))

I would also suggest you save up and get a Nikon 6T. They are better corrected for CA. Again.....IMHO, gees ya gotta be careful here on STF :-))

All the best.

Danny.

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Hello Danny,

Thanks for your comments. Obviously I have not done much reading on the forum on how to take good macro. Will definately try out digital zoom and see how it comes out.

By the way, I did a search for 6T and found out that a lot of people obtained good results from it, since my adapter is 52mm, was wondering if 6T and 4T that has the same 2.9 power, leads to the same result?

Thanks again.

Regards
 
hello mxtrader,

thank you for your input. i saw your nice jelly fish in your album, was wondering where were the jelly fish? inside aquarium?

regards
 
Sorry, yes exactly the same lens. The 5T is less power but the 4T is exactly the same as the 6T, just smaller threads :-)). I'm still thinking of other cameras :-))

They are excellent twin element optics and IMO, well worth the cost. The Canon 250D is another superb, slightly higher powered version, but also a lot more expensive. The 4T/6T will do just fine IMHO.

All the best and good luck with it :-)) BTW, the V1 is a very nice camera from what I've just seen.

Danny.

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...........................

http://macrophotos.com

http://www.photomacrography.net
...........................
Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the box itself.
 
Yes, extra glass degrades an image, but I doubt that's your problem. I think Chris and mxTrader identified the biggest problem - there is an extremely shallow plane of focus in macro photagraphy. Part of each of your pictures is in sharp focus, it's just not the part that you want.

Second problem may be camera shake as Chris suggested. Use the fastest possible shutter speed to minimize this problem - which may mean adding more light if possible.

Third problem, maybe the most important issue in these photos - subject movement. Again, a fast shutter (and more light) will help.

If these guys are moving fast, at changing distance, in mediocre or poor light, then you may be tackling the near-impossible and should be quite pleased with what you've got.

If there is one spot or plane these guys cross, you might get good shots by pre-focusiing and then shooting a burst as they cross your focal plane, rather than trying to follow them and focus at changing distances.
Hello Chris,
Thanks for your comments. Those creature were moving very fast, I
can't use autofocus. Using the manual move front and back method.
I will practise more.

Was wondering if stacking too much will cause the image to degrade?

regards
John
 
Yes, it was in an aquarium, in fact, was the Boston Aquarium, they were having a special exhibition on jelly fishes and their implication for the fishermen, was very interesting.
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Yes, extra glass degrades an image, but I doubt that's your
problem. I think Chris and mxTrader identified the biggest problem
  • there is an extremely shallow plane of focus in macro
photagraphy. Part of each of your pictures is in sharp focus, it's
just not the part that you want.
Let me show an image for this point:



I have shown this pic before. At first instance it looks like blurried, but if you pay attention better see how well defined is my wife's ring, the camera did a great job, but that was me who focused somewhere else. I was intending for the buterfly.

In your case, your pics are much better than mine, since they are focusing what you wanted, the problem is the extremely tight DOF. I like your last two shots, they are perfect, considering the macro thing.

Macro is quite difficult, for me is a completely new grounds, so I'm still testing/learning.

--

http://francofoto.blogspot.com :: I update daily with new photos :: Thanks for browsing
http://www.hello.com :: Great FREE messenger for pictures my nickname 'mxtrader'

http://fotorecuerdo.com/exiframe :: A FREE Utility to put all the EXIF information inside a border in your pics.
 
really nice to hv u guys helping a beginner. now i have learned more from u and shall try practice and experiment more. any nice photo will post here.

cheers.
 
Some close up lenses work better on a particular camera than others. As Danny (a very accomplished macro shooter) suggests, one of the problems is the glass in front of the lens. It may take a bit of experimenting (or less costly research), to find which lenses will work for you.

The images you posted exhibit a fair amount of distortion and softness. Some of this may be caused by camera shake/motion blur (more on this later), some from ISO noise, and some from cropping. But some is certainly attributable to glass quality.

If you're stacking all 3 lenses (the strongest lens should go on first), then you have a total of 9 diopters. Switching to a high quality Nikon 6T will only net you 3 diopters. A Canon 250D only brings you up to 4 diopters. Stacking a pair of 250D's will net 8 diopters (at a cost of $175 or so), but will give you the magnification closest to what you currently have. I like to stack my 6T on my 250D for 7 diopters (it's a very versatile combination). And fortunately, stacking either of these lenses will still produce a high quality image (low distortion, high sharpness, contrast, and color fidelity).

If you're set on extreme macro (what I consider to be above 8 diopters), then another option would be to mount a lens Reversed on your camera. Usually a 45 - 55mm "normal" lens intended for a 35mm SLR is used (yielding a diopter value of about 15). They can usually be found used for well under $100 (get an f1.4 to minimize vignetting). In addition, I like to use a big "Enlarger" lens for a lot of my macro (about 7 diopters equiv).

Let me know if you want more info on those.

Now to address the possibility of camera shake/motion blur. 1/125 sec is Veeeeery slow for these magnifications. You need a LOT of light to shoot macro in available light. You're in a bit of a quandary, because if you up the ISO, noise will become very prominent. If you open up the shutter, you'll lose DOF. I'd suggest using flash until you get more comfortable handholding in available light. Flash has the advantage of all but eliminating camera shake and motion blur (leaving you to concentrate on focusing - a great challenge in itself).

I like using off-camera flash, but a flash mounted on-camera or on a bracket will work very well. Here's a pic of my setup (717, reversed 135mm f4.5 enlarging lens, makeshift hood, and a Sunpak 383 with a homemade softbox). Flashlight velcro'd to the lens barrel for focusing in low light (I love to shoot macro at night):



Try doing some testing using flash to see how sharp your lens(es) are (without camera shake/ subject blur as factors). Or use a spotlight so that you can get the shutter speed up to 1/1000 or faster @ f8.

One thing to note: the image quality problems here aren't due to narrow DOF (although narrow DOF is a factor that you'll have to deal with). Your V1 should produce some fine macro pics, and you yourself are obviously very capable!
R2

ps. Below is a pic taken last summer with my 717 and a single 250D (images is cropped a bit).



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Experience comes from bad judgment.

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hi guys,

by practising all the tips, method and skill that u hv tought me here...i tried to go low cost way first...i can't seems to find Nikon 6T and canon 250D here...maybe need to order online.

I tried the suggestion given by u guys here...

1. Flash Sony FX32 with a piece of white card board bounce the light to the subject. manual control to 1/8 flash power.

2. Bought a new Hoya +10 to reduce the stacking.

3. shoot at 1/1000 and F8.0

4. wanted to try burst (multiple) shots but sony v1 disable flash in burst mode.

here is the result



what do u guys think?

I would like to try out suggestion for reverse lens, hopefully R2D2 can provide some guide. I guess I need a male-male converter which one side mount to the 52mm tube and the other side mount to the reverse lens right? also if one can suggest a resonable lens...i shall go hunt for a used unit.

thanks...u guys at STF are great.

rgds
 
Looks great! Just takes some practice. And hanging around these experts for a few days! ; ) Also if you are manual focusing, your own eyesight can make a difference. Looked like the first shots were a little off on the focus is all. Or little higher f numbers and shutter speed too.
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DSC V1 Sony, Mavica FD88, Fuji s5000, Canon 20D
 
Excellent work. You are certainly on the right track.

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Busch

I have to take my photos seriously; no one else does!

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I would like to try out suggestion for reverse lens, hopefully R2D2
can provide some guide. I guess I need a male-male converter which
one side mount to the 52mm tube and the other side mount to the
reverse lens right? also if one can suggest a resonable lens...i
shall go hunt for a used unit.

thanks...u guys at STF are great.

rgds
How much difference practise makes. EXCELLENT !!!. Selective focus is right where it should be, on the eyes. Very well done.

As for lenses, well I don't really know enough about the V1. Based on what a friend used, Mark Plonsky, with the Canon G series, I would suggest a 50mm F/1.4. Any of the major brands should be fine.....Canon, Olympus, Minolta, Nikon, Pentax, etc, etc would be darn good optics.

My personal favourite is a Canon 100mm FD 2.8 std lens. You might end up with vignetting though on the V1. R2D2 or Mike would have a much better idea on that with Sony and the smaller zoom ranges.

I don't mount many lenses in reverse and I use an adaptor with a rear lens cap with the centre cut out to mount 90% of the lenses I use. That allows me to mount the added 35mm slr lenses, the normal way around.

This may help and it may not in your case. Have a look anyway and it might give you ideas on what you can get and do.

http://www.macrophotos.com/nzmacro/articles/pmacro.htm

Also check out Mark's site and his articles. Fantastic macro shooter IMHO.

http://www.mplonsky.com/photo/

All the best and a HUGE improvement in your shot :-)). Love it. :-))

Danny.

--
...........................

http://macrophotos.com

http://www.photomacrography.net
...........................
Worry about the image that comes out of the box, rather than the box itself.
 
hi guys,

it has been raining these few days, kinda boring and decide to test out combinez after reading Danny's website.

put a fishing fly on a vise and my sony V1 with a +10 on a stand. The first frame was focus on the hook eye, and shot by shot i change the manual focus 0.1, 0.2, 0.3 and so on.

total 14 frames was captured and put into CombineZ software to stack. the result came out satisfactory.

now i am puzzled...wait...i was using a stand to do it...if i were shooting bugs outdoor, can my hand control the camera to be so precise that the stacking will be clear and not out of alignment?

do u guys have a special skill or special practise that i shall learn? so that i can hand held my shots and be able to stack it without going out of alignment?

your advise is very much appreciated.

rgds
john
 
Hi John,

You're using the same technique I used on some of my closeup stacking shots. You seem to have ghosting like I did on mine, close to the foreground. I think I know what the problem is and here is how I plan to get around it. This only refers to your V1 and my V3 because we have a wheel to adjust the focus without too much camera movement. I don't know if other cameras have this (thumb wheel for adjustments). If you noticed, the focus field changes more dramatically from .1 to .2 than from 10' to 15'.
Technique to try:

I'll set the focus on infinity and move the object so the focus plane is on the most rear portion that I want in focus. Then I'll focus to about .8 and see if the nearest part is in focus that I want in focus. I'll have to adjust from there, but basically stay away from the .1 to .3 range if I can.

Now, here is what most macro stackers do, which is different from us. The mount their camera and object, take a shot, leave the focus where it is and move the object just slightly closer. Then do this all over again.

We, on the other hand, are not moving camera or object, but just adjusting the focus field.

I haven't had time to test this out, but am pretty sure this is the problem. We just have to attack the subject backwards from what we did. Here is an example of what I mean:



If you look at the 4th-5th row back, you will see a ghosting of the pins. I also saw this in the pink twine just past the needle hole in your shot. At first, I though this was a problem with CombineZ5, but the shot above is my second set to do the same thing.

As for bugs, our method would be very difficult to pull off and not sure how to do that.

It'll be a few days before I get the time to test this, so if I've been somewhat coherent in this post and you get a chance, I'd love to see a shot.

Chris
--
A picture is but words to the eyes.
Comments are always welcome.

http://www.pbase.com/higgmeister/
 
hi chris,

i think u are right. i followed your suggestion set to infinity and tried to do the focusing from the back and also stop at 0.8, just before the needle hole.

here is the result, looks much better than the first one i did.



I read about LANC protocol, when connedted the ACC port of the camera and will be able to receive control command. Wonder if the protocol can direct the camera to do a more precise focusing for example 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5, 0.6 and so on...will try to search for more info...

if u have any outcome pls post...thanks for your time.

rgds
John
 

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