Most good, some quirks, the killer is Autofocus Sucks!!

After 2 days of playing with the D7 here is my impression:

Image quality is great. The manual zoom is nice as is the manual focus. (takes some getting used too though)

Build quality seems okay. Not any worse then the Nikon 990 that I looked at the other day. After awhile it starts to feel like it actually won't disintigrate in your hands.

The EVF in low light is fantastic! If the subject is not moving or manual focus is used then you will be very happy with it. You can see everything when the evf gains up.

Good exposures as well as flash exposures. The flash is slow recycling though. It sucks that there is no pc connection.
It is a battery hog! It helps greatly to keep the lcd off.

Some software quirks such as magnification in playback mode does not work all the time. I have to shut the camera off and turn it back on for it to work.

It crashed a number of times today. Turning it off did not help as it stayed powered up. I had to remove the batteries.

I like the small size. Macro is great. The lcd is good even in sunlight. I did not see any of the blurred corners in the EVF that others have mentioned. I did notice that if you were not looking DIRECTLY right into the EVF that the side might seem blurred, but this has to do with your angle of view. If you actually look around the evf closely with your eye right up against it, I did not see any blurring at all. To the contrary it was sharp corner to corner. I did find that the resolution was not there for critical focusing. If you use manual focus and the evf with the 2x magnify function, then it seems to be okay, BUT when you release the shutter there is a delay where the camera switches out of the magnify mode to the regular view before the actual photo is taken. This is enough of a delay to almost certainly miss a shot if the subject is moving even slightly.

Now the autofocus. Man am I glad that I have a two week return on this sucker! This is a confirmation of my original viewing of the camera in the store. This was my biggest concern and why this camera is no good for me. Maybe it is faster or as good as other prosumer digitals (I don't know), but it is so far away from my Nikon 35mm that it is unuseable to me. It is slow. There are many times where I get focus confirmation and I can see that the image is out of focus in the EVF and after taking the photo the playback confirms this. It does not matter if I use regular autofocus mode or spot focus. Inside or outdoors in bright light or a darkroom, it doesn't matter. I know that it wasn't just this camera as I had the same problem with the first store demo that I tried.

If your subject is stationary and if you don't mind waiting for the camera to find focus (such as landscapes and vacation snapshots) then the camera is fine. I like to shoot portraits and my kids at 200mm and wide open and this is definitely not the camera for this. Quick candids of even slightly moving kids are out of the question. By the time the camera has found focus, the moment is gone. Between that and shutterlag I would get the back of heads or blurred photos. (not what I had framed in the viewfinder with prefocusing even).

It is too bad as the other things I could live with, but the autofocus issues kill it for me. Otherwise, if you don't shoot candids of people then it would be a great carry everywhere camera.I will probably play with it for a few more days and then pack it up and return it.

Drat!! Looks like nothing short of a D1X is going to do it for me. The D7 I could slip by the wife, but a D1X is another story!
Murray Z.

Murray Z said:

Now the autofocus. Man am I glad that I have a two week return on
this sucker! This is a confirmation of my original viewing of the
camera in the store. This was my biggest concern and why this
camera is no good for me. Maybe it is faster or as good as other
prosumer digitals (I don't know), but it is so far away from my
Nikon 35mm that it is unuseable to me. It is slow. There are many
times where I get focus confirmation and I can see that the image
is out of focus in the EVF and after taking the photo the playback
confirms this. It does not matter if I use regular autofocus mode
or spot focus. Inside or outdoors in bright light or a darkroom, it
doesn't matter. I know that it wasn't just this camera as I had the
same problem with the first store demo that I tried.
If your subject is stationary and if you don't mind waiting for the
camera to find focus (such as landscapes and vacation snapshots)
then the camera is fine. I like to shoot portraits and my kids at
200mm and wide open and this is definitely not the camera for this.
Quick candids of even slightly moving kids are out of the question.
By the time the camera has found focus, the moment is gone. Between
that and shutterlag I would get the back of heads or blurred
photos. (not what I had framed in the viewfinder with prefocusing
even).

It is too bad as the other things I could live with, but the
autofocus issues kill it for me. Otherwise, if you don't shoot
candids of people then it would be a great carry everywhere
camera.I will probably play with it for a few more days and then
pack it up and return it.

Click to expand...

It is interesting to read of the differing experiences with this camera. Perhaps Murray, with due respect, it might indeed be just that you have little experience with digicams?

For a different view, see Bryan Biggers comments on the D7 Autofocus ( http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/review.html ).

Perhaps you might like to send in another comment after playing with it for a few days to let us know if your feelings about it have remained unchanged?

Cheers,

Alan

Alan Hogg wrote:
Hi Alan,

I'm approaching it from the digicam side, and Murray is coming from the 35mm side. What seems like a pretty fast digital camera to me probably seems like a very slow piece of 35mm equipment to Murray. It has been years since I've shot film, and the only camera I ever really used extensively was my old Nikormat FT which was no speed demon; shoot, crank, shoot crank....
Bryan

Alan_Hogg said:

For a different view, see Bryan Biggers comments on the D7
Autofocus
( http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/review.html ).

Perhaps you might like to send in another comment after playing
with it for a few days to let us know if your feelings about it
have remained unchanged?

Cheers,

Alan

Click to expand...

Alan_Hogg said:

It is interesting to read of the differing experiences with this
camera. Perhaps Murray, with due respect, it might indeed be just
that you have little experience with digicams?

For a different view, see Bryan Biggers comments on the D7
Autofocus
( http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/review.html ).

Perhaps you might like to send in another comment after playing
with it for a few days to let us know if your feelings about it
have remained unchanged?

Cheers,

Alan

Click to expand...

***************************

I have played with it extensively the last 2 days. Yes, I am comparing it to a Nikon 35mm and the kind of photography that I was doing with that camera. I mentioned in my impression that it may very well have as good or even better autofocus as other consumer digicams, but it in NO WAY compares to the Nikon 35mm slr which is my frame of reference. I want to shoot candids and my kids and this is not the camera for it. If you look around this forum for D7 comments you will see that the biggest complaint on this camera is the autofocus. If I played with the camera for the next 2 weeks or 3 years this fact would not change!

Image quality is great. This is funny because people were all worried about image quality and noise before the camera was released and now the biggest real complaint is autofocus as was mentioned by Phil as well in his review. No one is really complaining about noise or image quality.

Murray

OTOH, this is why Andreas got rid of his. And Andreas is a VERY experienced digicam user. He mentioned both AF and shutter lag.
So did Phil, A pro, especially in digicams.

Face it, MOST digicams are not suitable for "action" shots.......and some are not as good as others.

The disappointing thing is that Minolta hyped the fact that the D7 uses phase detection (Like their 35MM stuff) and raised expectations that it would be faster and more solid than Contrast detection types.
However for many people it is a non issue. And there are LOTS of workarounds.

Hopefully there will be a Download avail someday to address this as I have never heard any complaints of Minolta 35s (using the same system) being slow or not solid on AF.

Sorry it is not to your satisfaction Murray, but it is more important that you get the right camera rather than a particular camera.

Homer

Alan Hogg said:

Murray Z said:

Now the autofocus. Man am I glad that I have a two week return on
this sucker! This is a confirmation of my original viewing of the
camera in the store. This was my biggest concern and why this
camera is no good for me. Maybe it is faster or as good as other
prosumer digitals (I don't know), but it is so far away from my
Nikon 35mm that it is unuseable to me. It is slow. There are many
times where I get focus confirmation and I can see that the image
is out of focus in the EVF and after taking the photo the playback
confirms this. It does not matter if I use regular autofocus mode
or spot focus. Inside or outdoors in bright light or a darkroom, it
doesn't matter. I know that it wasn't just this camera as I had the
same problem with the first store demo that I tried.
If your subject is stationary and if you don't mind waiting for the
camera to find focus (such as landscapes and vacation snapshots)
then the camera is fine. I like to shoot portraits and my kids at
200mm and wide open and this is definitely not the camera for this.
Quick candids of even slightly moving kids are out of the question.
By the time the camera has found focus, the moment is gone. Between
that and shutterlag I would get the back of heads or blurred
photos. (not what I had framed in the viewfinder with prefocusing
even).

It is too bad as the other things I could live with, but the
autofocus issues kill it for me. Otherwise, if you don't shoot
candids of people then it would be a great carry everywhere
camera.I will probably play with it for a few more days and then
pack it up and return it.

Click to expand...

It is interesting to read of the differing experiences with this
camera. Perhaps Murray, with due respect, it might indeed be just
that you have little experience with digicams?

For a different view, see Bryan Biggers comments on the D7
Autofocus
( http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/review.html ).

Perhaps you might like to send in another comment after playing
with it for a few days to let us know if your feelings about it
have remained unchanged?

Cheers,

Alan

Click to expand...

Alan.

I understand clearly what you are saying, however if you give it some thought, you as an experienced photog can overcome the obstacles that you see now. For example, when I shot candids in the old days, I would never have to focus. A lot of light and a small apeture would keep a lot of things in focus. In cases where the preceeding were not possible I would pre focus on an object of equal distance. Then I could see everything that was in range, and when someone walked into my "trap", bang. A good basket ball player can make his shot or close to it every time, a good golfer can judge distance also, so can I and so can you. I would not give up the ship, give it some time.
Go for it and tell us how you are doing!
Leo

My exact thoughts and experience: Manual focus is underrated; with the large depth of field, and with the D7 manual focus showing distance in meters / feet, it is not a problem to prefocus or estimate the distance (the large DOF gives a lot of latitude). The first day I used the D7, I was taking pictures if flying seagulls this way: At 200 mm zoom (distance set to 30 meters = 100 feet). I event "chased" driving cars on the highway this way. Pictures came out sharp!

Geir Ove

snip

Leo Terminello said:

old days, I would never have to focus. A lot of light and a small
apeture would keep a lot of things in focus. In cases where the
preceeding were not possible I would pre focus on an object of
equal distance. Then I could see everything that was in range, and
when someone walked into my "trap", bang. > >

Click to expand...

Geir Ove said:

My exact thoughts and experience: Manual focus is underrated; with
the large depth of field, and with the D7 manual focus showing
distance in meters / feet, it is not a problem to prefocus or
estimate the distance (the large DOF gives a lot of latitude). The
first day I used the D7, I was taking pictures if flying seagulls
this way: At 200 mm zoom (distance set to 30 meters = 100 feet). I
event "chased" driving cars on the highway this way. Pictures came
out sharp!

Click to expand...

++++++++++++++++++++++++

Well duh! I prefer as shallow a depth of field as possible. I shoot portraits wide open. I would not use manual focus at anything other than 3.5 on the D7. It does not work this way. Also, I like to be able to pick up the camera for a quick grab shot when the moment arises -zoom to frame, focus instantly wide open and grab the shot before it's gone. You can't prefocus when you do not even know where your shot will be. The D7 CANNOT do that period! You guys can stop defending the D7 if it works for you. Obviously for some more demanding users it will not.

Murray

Umm, Murray...they were just trying to help you. Hope you find a camera that meets your expectations.

Tricia

Murray Z said:

Well duh! I prefer as shallow a depth of field as possible. I shoot
portraits wide open. I would not use manual focus at anything other
than 3.5 on the D7. It does not work this way. Also, I like to be
able to pick up the camera for a quick grab shot when the moment
arises -zoom to frame, focus instantly wide open and grab the shot
before it's gone. You can't prefocus when you do not even know
where your shot will be. The D7 CANNOT do that period! You guys
can stop defending the D7 if it works for you. Obviously for some
more demanding users it will not.

Murray

Click to expand...

Murray Z said:

Now the autofocus. Man am I glad that I have a two week return on
this sucker! This is a confirmation of my original viewing of the
camera in the store. This was my biggest concern and why this
camera is no good for me. Maybe it is faster or as good as other
prosumer digitals (I don't know), but it is so far away from my
Nikon 35mm that it is unuseable to me. It is slow. There are many
times where I get focus confirmation and I can see that the image
is out of focus in the EVF and after taking the photo the playback
confirms this. It does not matter if I use regular autofocus mode
or spot focus. Inside or outdoors in bright light or a darkroom, it
doesn't matter. I know that it wasn't just this camera as I had the
same problem with the first store demo that I tried.
If your subject is stationary and if you don't mind waiting for the
camera to find focus (such as landscapes and vacation snapshots)
then the camera is fine. I like to shoot portraits and my kids at
200mm and wide open and this is definitely not the camera for this.
Quick candids of even slightly moving kids are out of the question.
By the time the camera has found focus, the moment is gone. Between
that and shutterlag I would get the back of heads or blurred
photos. (not what I had framed in the viewfinder with prefocusing
even).

Click to expand...

OK, I don't have my D7 yet. So I can't actually comment on the autofocus on the D7, but I can comment on your use of autofocus. I have used manual focus 35mm (and larger) cameras for years. I can certainly shoot portraits and moving subject very well. I focus once and then using depth of field I can keep the subject in focus without refocusing.

In fact for a few years I used a Minox 35mm camera which just had distance marks on the dial, so I had to focus by guessing the distance. There was no rangefinder. That camera took fantastic pictures and they were always sharp as a tack. It had an excellent lens. Unfortunately the camera broke and I never could get it repaired.

So in cases where you need fast focus just set to manual, set the focus once, and then shoot away. If the subject moves, set a narrower appeture to provide for a better depth of field.

daveh said:

OK, I don't have my D7 yet. So I can't actually comment on the
autofocus on the D7, but I can comment on your use of autofocus. I
have used manual focus 35mm (and larger) cameras for years. I can
certainly shoot portraits and moving subject very well. I focus
once and then using depth of field I can keep the subject in focus
without refocusing.

In fact for a few years I used a Minox 35mm camera which just had
distance marks on the dial, so I had to focus by guessing the
distance. There was no rangefinder. That camera took fantastic
pictures and they were always sharp as a tack. It had an excellent
lens. Unfortunately the camera broke and I never could get it
repaired.

So in cases where you need fast focus just set to manual, set the
focus once, and then shoot away. If the subject moves, set a
narrower appeture to provide for a better depth of field.

Click to expand...

++++++++++++++++
Dave

You obviously never read my last post in this thread. I am very familiar with manual focus and depth of field. Once again, I like SHALLOW depth of field (wide open) at max zoom.

MZ

Any particular reason you aren't considering an E-10? From the D7 reports I've been seeing, the AF speed is far faster. It may have the "pro features" you are looking for without the "pro price." You should have no problem capturing your kids at shallow DOF, and the price factor might be easier for your wife to take -- depending on where you are, it can be pretty close to the D7 in price. Any way you cut it, it's about 1/3 the price of a D1x.

Murray Z said:

Drat!! Looks like nothing short of a D1X is going to do it for me.
The D7 I could slip by the wife, but a D1X is another story!
Murray Z.

Click to expand...

I think what everyone is telling you is the same thing. I will say
it plain. Short of spending 10,000 bucks, this is as good as it
gets. Users have already stated it is faster than the 990 as
far as AF is concerned. The no focus has pretty much been
hammered out as camera movement at the longer focal
lengths. The sports AF issue was plainly misunderstood by
several people, even possibly Phil. For quick shots with a
digicam, you prefocus and snap. For candids, you prefocus
and snap. If that is not good enough, then good luck.
We all use these methods. I have shots of successive
roller coaster seats, and they are the right seats, using the
QV3000's continuous mode prefocused. Just the normal
boot time of the digitals kills the grab and snap option
before you even consider AF. This is one of the differences
between digital and film, and it will be for a while unless
you are willing to buy very expensive pro equipment.

Dr. Gonzo said:

Murray Z said:

Drat!! Looks like nothing short of a D1X is going to do it for me.
The D7 I could slip by the wife, but a D1X is another story!
Murray Z.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

bob,

First off, that post was meant for Murray, but I appreciate your concern. Unfortunately, what you say is untrue. The E-10 is the exception to that "$10,000 rule". The AF and general shooting speed (in normal or burst mode) is fast enough to do action, even though there is no continuous focus mode. Prefocusing (for the type of photo Murray wants) is unnecessary.

Disclaimer: I'm not posting this here to hack on the D7, I am directing this specifically at Murray, who finds the D7's focus speed inadequate.

Dr. G.

Got to agree with most of what's been said. Coming from a Nikon 950 the focusing is fine. coming from a Minolta 8000i it's poor. As an experiment last night I grabbed the 35mm and reminded myself of how well the AF worked at 200mm - instant.

As you say it's a shame tht Minolta couldn't have reproduced this level of AF responsiveness in the D7 and users who were hoping for 35mm speeds are going to be disappointed.

Personally I tend to work in different modes when working 35mm or Digital to compensate for the Digital's lack of responsiveness.

DaveR

Homer said:

Sorry it is not to your satisfaction Murray, but it is more
important that you get the right camera rather than a particular
camera.

Homer

Alan Hogg said:

Murray Z said:

Now the autofocus. Man am I glad that I have a two week return on
this sucker! This is a confirmation of my original viewing of the
camera in the store. This was my biggest concern and why this
camera is no good for me. Maybe it is faster or as good as other
prosumer digitals (I don't know), but it is so far away from my
Nikon 35mm that it is unuseable to me. It is slow. There are many
times where I get focus confirmation and I can see that the image
is out of focus in the EVF and after taking the photo the playback
confirms this. It does not matter if I use regular autofocus mode
or spot focus. Inside or outdoors in bright light or a darkroom, it
doesn't matter. I know that it wasn't just this camera as I had the
same problem with the first store demo that I tried.
If your subject is stationary and if you don't mind waiting for the
camera to find focus (such as landscapes and vacation snapshots)
then the camera is fine. I like to shoot portraits and my kids at
200mm and wide open and this is definitely not the camera for this.
Quick candids of even slightly moving kids are out of the question.
By the time the camera has found focus, the moment is gone. Between
that and shutterlag I would get the back of heads or blurred
photos. (not what I had framed in the viewfinder with prefocusing
even).

It is too bad as the other things I could live with, but the
autofocus issues kill it for me. Otherwise, if you don't shoot
candids of people then it would be a great carry everywhere
camera.I will probably play with it for a few more days and then
pack it up and return it.

Click to expand...

It is interesting to read of the differing experiences with this
camera. Perhaps Murray, with due respect, it might indeed be just
that you have little experience with digicams?

For a different view, see Bryan Biggers comments on the D7
Autofocus
( http://webpages.charter.net/bbiggers/DCExperiments/html/review.html ).

Perhaps you might like to send in another comment after playing
with it for a few days to let us know if your feelings about it
have remained unchanged?

Cheers,

Alan

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dr. Gonzo said:

Any particular reason you aren't considering an E-10? From the D7
reports I've been seeing, the AF speed is far faster.

Click to expand...

Presuming of couse that you can get the e10 to fucus in the first place, and ,unlike the poster on the oly forum, don't have to go through three I repeat three cameras to find one that functions correctly!

Dennis

Dr. Gonzo said:

bob,

First off, that post was meant for Murray, but I appreciate your
concern. Unfortunately, what you say is untrue. The E-10 is the
exception to that "$10,000 rule". The AF and general shooting speed
(in normal or burst mode) is fast enough to do action, even though
there is no continuous focus mode. Prefocusing (for the type of
photo Murray wants) is unnecessary.

Click to expand...

I've only used an E-10 for a short time in a shop, and just outside the door in the street. Speeds were again pretty much what I'd expect from a digicam - slightly quicker perhaps - but if Murray is looking for 35mm responsiveness I don't think he'll find it there either.

Out of interest, have you had experience of using the E-10 with a tele-converter (B-300 or whatever). I was wondering what effect these had on the E-10's AF performance out beyond 150mm.

Homer40784 said:

I have never heard any complaints of Minolta 35s (using the same
system) being slow or not solid on AF.

Click to expand...

I can assure you that the AF system in the D7 and the Maxxum camereas is not the same at all.
They may both be called phase detection but that is where the similarity ends.

Classical SLR using phase detection have separator lenses in the optical path that sample the incoming light beam at different angles and project it on different CCDs, then they compare the image position on both CCDs

Since the D7 can not have separator lenses in its optical path, the focus detection must be done in software from the imager information, and this is another principal altogether than what SLRs use.

The read-out speed of a 5MP CCD is also a lot slower than the dedicated line sensor CCDs used in SLR land which only have a few thousand pixels.

IMHO a pure software autofocussing solution will not match the speed of a dedicated hardware solution for the next few years.

This will only be the case when CCDs and CPUs in cameras have become so fast that the only limiting factor is the mechanical part.

I haven't used any of the really long tele-extenders, but with the TCON-14b, 200mm equivalent, there is negligible effect on focusing speed.

Dave Race said:

I've only used an E-10 for a short time in a shop, and just outside
the door in the street. Speeds were again pretty much what I'd
expect from a digicam - slightly quicker perhaps - but if Murray is
looking for 35mm responsiveness I don't think he'll find it there
either.

Out of interest, have you had experience of using the E-10 with a
tele-converter (B-300 or whatever). I was wondering what effect
these had on the E-10's AF performance out beyond 150mm.

Click to expand...

For your sake, or anyone's sake, I hope you have the experience of this poster in the Oly forum, who has never had focus problems with his first and only E-10.

Dennis P O'Neil said:

Presuming of couse that you can get the e10 to fucus in the first
place, and ,unlike the poster on the oly forum, don't have to go
through three I repeat three cameras to find one that functions
correctly!

Dennis

Click to expand...