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S2 IS, Why ?

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Good points bdery, and thanks for replying. I realize that my post may have come across as somewhat inflammitory, which wasn't really my intention.

Anway, I agree that the lcd is great for certain situations (especially if you have a swivel lcd).. mainly for the reasons you state below:
bdery said:
to show
it to others, to frame with the camera at ackward angles, and if it
swivels, to shoot at any angle at all. You can use it to shoot from
ground level, from overhead, from the side, and to make shots
impossible to do otherwise. You can't do any of those things with a
viewfinder, even a good one.
Click to expand...
Very much agreed.
bdery said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.
Click to expand...
You are probably quite correct, at least when it comes to other people. In my case however, I did have an slr camera about 20 years ago (man, I'm getting old!) that I used for a couple of years. But I only really got back into photography 4 years ago with a Canon Digital Elph S300 (great little camera btw). It had an optical viewfinder which didn't cover the full frame, so to me it was useless and I used the LCD for 3 years.

I got an Oly c770 a year ago, and I quickly switched over to using the EVF for the following reasons:
  • the EVF image seems very bright, clear and closeup, so I can more easily see if I am in focus.
  • also for some reason, it seems to help with my compositions (not sure why). It sounds kinda sillly, but I almost feel like I am taking the image more seriously when looking at it through the EVF, and it somehow enhances the photo taking experience for me.
  • sunlight is not as much of a factor
  • the camera is generally held steadier when using the EVF
Anyways, your right in that it is quite a subjective thing.

Regards,

Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n

 
as a happy S1 user willing to upgrade:

1.) no remote - i have one for the S1
2.) no CF and microdrive - i have both and they weren't cheap

3.) no 52 mm lenses, only 58 mm - i have an adaptor for the 52 mm lenses and a set of lenses, they would all become useless now if i replaced the S1

i can understand point 3 - maybe the new lens requires a new format. but why no CF? why no remote??
 
utomo said:
1. Why it did not offering MPEG or DIVX video compression ? is that
true that Canon still Can Not make it ? I doubt
Click to expand...
Sure, using MPEG-4 compression makes the movie a lot smaller in terms of filesize, but the quality goes downhill. This I don't like.
utomo said:
3. Why it only 12X zoom, instead of 15X ?
Click to expand...
Whoa.

The current record holder for the most optical zoom is Sony, at roughly 1.3 megapixels and 14X optical zoom. Unfortunately, the quality isn't comparable to even its first Mavica.

Also, with a longer zoom, the manufacturer will have to either increase the lens size (see Panasonic), decrease the sensor size, or worse, pushing the maximum aperture at the telephoto end beyond the F3.7 currently spec'ed on the S2.
utomo said:
And I hope that Canon learn from many review and critics regarding
their image which considered need little bit sharper. and hope also
they did not have PF problems.
Click to expand...
The pictures look soft, yes, but too much in-camera sharpening and you're screwed when it comes to post-processing. Not to mention the nasty sharpness-to-noise ratio associated with that.
 
utomo said:
Sorry, May I ask you, what is your first Digicam you use ? and when ?
I use http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/mavica/
http://www.epinions.com/elec-review-3864-50C8CAAE-3A550DF5-prod6
around 1997-1998
I know that it is now just like a toy, but at that time it is a
good digital camera.
Click to expand...
That's too new.

The first digital camera I've ever used was a Casio QV-10. Outputs 320x240, software extrapolation to 640x480 on computer, serial data transfer, takes 4x AA batteries and eats them like dinner, even though the LCD itself isn't all that good.

However, I had no complaints at that time, USB 1.0 didn't even exist back then. Heck, it had the functionality of the swivel-style Nikon Coolpix, sans flash.

Second one, and the first I've owned, is a G2. Then it's A40, S45, and now the S1 IS. In all of that I stuck to Compactflash.

If you follow the trend, you'll have to sell your CF cards and stock up on SD cards. :)
 
My 1-st dig.camera was Canon s300 -2MP that i use now in the housing when diving.My daughter use it also.The second camera is Canon S! IS that I have for more than a year.I enjoy verry mutch taking pictures with her and have printed up to 30x40 cm (12x16").
--
zeev
 
Just from looking at the placement of features on the S2, I have a pretty good guess as to why they removed the remote feature and changed to SD cards. Since the S2 really needed an AF assist lamp, they added it to the left of the camera (looking at the camera from the back), but that meant the digital outs had to be moved to make room, so they moved them to the right side of the camera. This new placement, along with the extra microphone at the right of the lens for stereo sound, means they didn't have room for a CF slot or a remote receiver, so they went with SD, which is smaller, and removed the remote receiver, which wasn't widely used anyway.

It seems like they were simply choices to prevent the camera from getting bigger and heavier.

--

Graefen Melengar
 
i can understand the reasoning behind the changes, but remote is such a neat little feature thats so easy to implement.

changing the lens thread from 52 to 58 mm is also annoying as i'd have to exchange all lenses i already own... the change to SD would also cost me a lot since i already own a 2 GB microdrive...
well, overall the S2 is still tempting.
 
bdery said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.

A camera with a good swiveling LCD will let you do things even a
DSLR won't.
Click to expand...
You've made some excellent points and maybe use of the viewfinder is part habit. But in most instances, I feel I have a more sold grip on the camera when using the viewfinder. This is particularly important when taking hand-held shots where camera shake might be an issue. In addition, if you live in a sunny place like I do, the LCD can be a pain. I have an articulating LCD on my Nikon and agree that it is useful for many, many shots.

Other than a dslr or a super tiny, sub-compact, carry-at-all-times digicam, I would never buy another digital camera without both a viewfinder or an articulating LCD.

--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm
 
Wayne N. said:
Anway, I agree that the lcd is great for certain situations
(especially if you have a swivel lcd).. mainly for the reasons you
state below:
Wayne N. said:
to show
it to others, to frame with the camera at ackward angles, and if it
swivels, to shoot at any angle at all. You can use it to shoot from
ground level, from overhead, from the side, and to make shots
impossible to do otherwise. You can't do any of those things with a
viewfinder, even a good one.
Click to expand...
Very much agreed.
Wayne N. said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.
Click to expand...
You are probably quite correct, at least when it comes to other
people. In my case however, I did have an slr camera about 20
years ago (man, I'm getting old!) that I used for a couple of
years. But I only really got back into photography 4 years ago
with a Canon Digital Elph S300 (great little camera btw). It had
an optical viewfinder which didn't cover the full frame, so to me
it was useless and I used the LCD for 3 years.

I got an Oly c770 a year ago, and I quickly switched over to using
the EVF for the following reasons:
  • the EVF image seems very bright, clear and closeup, so I can more
easily see if I am in focus.
Click to expand...
Probably depends on the camera, but when focus is easier to see, I fully agree with you. I'd do the same.
Wayne N. said:
  • also for some reason, it seems to help with my compositions (not
sure why). It sounds kinda sillly, but I almost feel like I am
taking the image more seriously when looking at it through the EVF,
and it somehow enhances the photo taking experience for me.
Click to expand...
That's personnal, and fully understandable too.
Wayne N. said:
  • sunlight is not as much of a factor
Click to expand...
Depends on the LCD quality and EVF brightness. Again, a case by case issue.
Wayne N. said:
  • the camera is generally held steadier when using the EVF
Click to expand...
that's true if the LCD doesn't swivel. My little Nikon SQ has a swivel body and most of the time I find myself shooting at hip level, the camera braced against my body. So in this case, the camera is very steady, and the composition is different from what you get at face level.
Wayne N. said:
Anyways, your right in that it is quite a subjective thing.
Click to expand...
And each case is different. With a fixed LCD, I'd probably use the EVF most of the time. With a swivel LCD (with IS) the camera can be braced against most surfaces, and framing is made easier.
Wayne N. said:
Regards,

Wayne
http://www.pbase.com/wayne_n

Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
http://community.webshots.com/user/beder12
 
gail said:
bdery said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.

A camera with a good swiveling LCD will let you do things even a
DSLR won't.
Click to expand...
You've made some excellent points and maybe use of the viewfinder
is part habit. But in most instances, I feel I have a more sold
grip on the camera when using the viewfinder. This is particularly
important when taking hand-held shots where camera shake might be
an issue. In addition, if you live in a sunny place like I do, the
LCD can be a pain. I have an articulating LCD on my Nikon and agree
that it is useful for many, many shots.
Click to expand...
Like I said to Wayne N. you're right, except if the swivel LCD allows you to brace the camera against a part of your body (often hip with my swivel-body SQ). And I've never not been able to see the LCD on that jewel (agreed, since there's no VF the LCD has been very well built)
Member said:
Other than a dslr or a super tiny, sub-compact, carry-at-all-times
digicam, I would never buy another digital camera without both a
viewfinder or an articulating LCD.
Click to expand...
I'd pass the VF is the LCD was good enough, but it HAS to swivel. Far too fun to use!
Member said:
--
gail ~ http://www.pbase.com/gailb
My digital camera BLOGs: Canon A510, Panasonic FZ3, Nikon 5400
http://www.digicamhelp.com/digital-camera-blogs/index.htm
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
http://community.webshots.com/user/beder12
 
With USB control of flash, I'm sure a wired remote (cheaper than wireless) could be made. Or a module that plugs into the USB port with a wireless remote to control it? Hmmmm. Anyone an electrical engineer? I have a business proposition for you...

The change to SD has already made me think I will get the S2 later than I would have if it had CF, but the change is inevitable and I'd rather be ahead of the curve than behind it. But, then again, if I could put off buying big SD cards until the prices come down more, then that would work... So I will just put off buying the S2 until my S1 gets smashed on a boulder, lost over a cliff or in a river.
stern said:
i can understand the reasoning behind the changes, but remote is
such a neat little feature thats so easy to implement.
changing the lens thread from 52 to 58 mm is also annoying as i'd
have to exchange all lenses i already own... the change to SD would
also cost me a lot since i already own a 2 GB microdrive...
well, overall the S2 is still tempting.
Click to expand...
--
MjN
 
You can sell your old CF on ebay and use the money plus some extra and buy SD.

so I think S@ IS is a good camera to invest, and the Card problems is only small things.
 
Yes, I'm sure it will be a good camera, but I'd only get a small part of my investment back from the CF cards on eBay. Plus, My S410 still uses them.

So my memory card commonality would end (no plans to replace the S410 yet - what would I replace it with?) even though I already have a couple of small SD cards for my PDA and Casio EX-S2 already.

So unless the S3 gets surpassed by another camera with the features I want , I'll probably get it after 6 or 9 months, but until then the S1 soldiers on admirably. I'm in no rush.
utomo said:
You can sell your old CF on ebay and use the money plus some extra
and buy SD.
so I think S@ IS is a good camera to invest, and the Card problems
is only small things.
Click to expand...
--
MjN
 
bdery said:
Good for you if you like EVFs, but why do you say they are better
than LCDs?
Click to expand...
When you use an EVF you have more stability (you hold the camera against your body and moreover at exactly your eye level).
bdery said:
A good LCD will give you as much resolution, as much
brightness, will allow you to see the image with both eyes, to show
it to others
Click to expand...
I do not know of many ocasions when I had to show the image to others. It always seemed funny to me when just after people take a picture everyone tries to watch it on the small low resolution LCD. And they had an opportunity to observe a much better quality with there own eyes just a second before that! What I want to say I usually take pictures for memories and not for viewing the nature or people through the LCD screen.
bdery said:
to frame with the camera at ackward angles, and if it
swivels, to shoot at any angle at all. You can use it to shoot from
ground level, from overhead, from the side, and to make shots
impossible to do otherwise. You can't do any of those things with a
viewfinder, even a good one.
Click to expand...
This is how I use the LCD.
bdery said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.
Click to expand...
S1 IS was my first camera ever. So I could not have been addicted to the VF earlier. Yes, you might be missing something.

--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/
 
vanyagor said:
bdery said:
Good for you if you like EVFs, but why do you say they are better
than LCDs?
Click to expand...
When you use an EVF you have more stability (you hold the camera
against your body and moreover at exactly your eye level).
Click to expand...
I do that by swiveling the LCD (or even camera with my Nikon) and resting it against my waist, hip, arm, whatever. That way, in addition to being steady, you have creative angles to shoot, uncommon prespective, a different image than what your eyes will see.
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
A good LCD will give you as much resolution, as much
brightness, will allow you to see the image with both eyes, to show
it to others
Click to expand...
I do not know of many ocasions when I had to show the image to
others. It always seemed funny to me when just after people take a
picture everyone tries to watch it on the small low resolution LCD.
And they had an opportunity to observe a much better quality with
there own eyes just a second before that! What I want to say I
usually take pictures for memories and not for viewing the nature
or people through the LCD screen.
Click to expand...
Well, I do, when I play with the settings, or take a shot of people and they want to see how it looks like, or whatever. Saying it's not useful to look at the pic afterward is like using only one arm, it,s one of the great advantages of digital photography.
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
to frame with the camera at ackward angles, and if it
swivels, to shoot at any angle at all. You can use it to shoot from
ground level, from overhead, from the side, and to make shots
impossible to do otherwise. You can't do any of those things with a
viewfinder, even a good one.
Click to expand...
This is how I use the LCD.
Click to expand...
Then we agree, at least on this.
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.
Click to expand...
S1 IS was my first camera ever. So I could not have been addicted
to the VF earlier. Yes, you might be missing something.
Click to expand...
Maybe I am, but by dismissing the LCD entirely, so are you.
vanyagor said:
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
http://community.webshots.com/user/beder12
 
bdery said:
vanyagor said:
bdery said:
Good for you if you like EVFs, but why do you say they are better
than LCDs?
Click to expand...
When you use an EVF you have more stability (you hold the camera
against your body and moreover at exactly your eye level).
Click to expand...
I do that by swiveling the LCD (or even camera with my Nikon) and
resting it against my waist, hip, arm, whatever. That way, in
addition to being steady, you have creative angles to shoot,
uncommon prespective, a different image than what your eyes will
see.
Click to expand...
I compose most of my shots at the eye level (or close to that), since my main goal is to catch the moment as I've seen it.

I need a different angle to shoot not that often and then I use the LCD of course.
bdery said:
bdery said:
bdery said:
A good LCD will give you as much resolution, as much
brightness, will allow you to see the image with both eyes, to show
it to others
Click to expand...
I do not know of many ocasions when I had to show the image to
others. It always seemed funny to me when just after people take a
picture everyone tries to watch it on the small low resolution LCD.
And they had an opportunity to observe a much better quality with
there own eyes just a second before that! What I want to say I
usually take pictures for memories and not for viewing the nature
or people through the LCD screen.
Click to expand...
Well, I do, when I play with the settings, or take a shot of people
and they want to see how it looks like, or whatever. Saying it's
not useful to look at the pic afterward is like using only one arm,
it,s one of the great advantages of digital photography.
Click to expand...
Ok, I should correct myself. It is not useful to me.
bdery said:
bdery said:
bdery said:
to frame with the camera at ackward angles, and if it
swivels, to shoot at any angle at all. You can use it to shoot from
ground level, from overhead, from the side, and to make shots
impossible to do otherwise. You can't do any of those things with a
viewfinder, even a good one.
Click to expand...
This is how I use the LCD.
Click to expand...
Then we agree, at least on this.
bdery said:
bdery said:
I find that people disregarding LCDs otfen are those used to work
with viewfinders for a long time. Maybe it's habit, maybe it's a
reactional feeling ("we did well enough without it") or maybe
there's something I'm missing.
Click to expand...
S1 IS was my first camera ever. So I could not have been addicted
to the VF earlier. Yes, you might be missing something.
Click to expand...
Maybe I am, but by dismissing the LCD entirely, so are you.
Click to expand...
Right. Sorry I was too agressive in my statements. I did not mean to.
bdery said:
bdery said:
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
http://community.webshots.com/user/beder12
Click to expand...
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/
 
snip> > > S1 IS was my first camera ever. So I could not have been addicted
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
to the VF earlier. Yes, you might be missing something.
Click to expand...
Maybe I am, but by dismissing the LCD entirely, so are you.
Click to expand...
Right. Sorry I was too agressive in my statements. I did not mean to.
Click to expand...
No offense taken. That's the problem with keyboards, they're not good at transmitting emotions...
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
vanyagor said:
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
http://community.webshots.com/user/beder12
Click to expand...
--
Regards,

Ivan
http://gordeli.fizteh.ru/foto/
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
http://community.webshots.com/user/beder12
 
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