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Hmm, my latest Sanyo HR-3U cells arrived in consumer packaging.

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Harvey Fishman

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I had placed an order several weeks ago with The Battery Station, but it did not get shipped when I expected as HE was away on vacation. He actually has TNR Technical drop-ship for him, and by the time they shipped I was on vacation. So the package was kicking around UPS for a week. Tonight we finally got together.

I had ordered a dozen cells and another Maha MH-C204F charger. When I opened the package, out fell 6 blister packs of two cells each marked GE Sanyo 1600 mAH. The cells have shiny silver shrink film rather than the matte green of the older ones, and are marked with the HR-3U and AA1600. So not only the industrial cells are available.

Last time that I had purchased (again from The Battery Station and drop shipped by TNR Technical), they were the green ones. I am also pretty sure that the Kodak cells are also Sanyo as the set that I have (came with my DC290) are stamped HR on the negative ends as are the 12 I just bought and the 8 that I had bought previously.

Eight of the cells are sitting on charge now in the two Maha chargers. Last time it took four hours for the initial charge; we shall see...

Harvey
 
Harvey,

Maybe the higher cost at http://www.ripvan.com is because those ARE the industrial version.

At least that's how they've come to me -- non-consumer green sleeves and all.

David
 
DF said:
Thanks for the link. I'm sure you must be right that it's the same
cell.

The only marking on my green ones is: FCH JAPAN

No mention of HR-3U.

Was that true of your green ones, as well?
Click to expand...
That FCH is undoubtedly a date code. My green ones are marked EKH Japan. Look on the negative end of the cell - it should be stamped HR in the metal that is exposed. Stamped into the metal, not a rubber stamp like the markings on the sleeve.

Harvey
 
Harvey Fishman said:
Harvey Fishman wrote:
That FCH is undoubtedly a date code. My green ones are marked EKH
Japan. Look on the negative end of the cell - it should be stamped
HR in the metal that is exposed. Stamped into the metal, not a
rubber stamp like the markings on the sleeve.

Harvey
Click to expand...
Yep, my green Sanyos are stamped HR on the negative pole.

And so are my two sets of Olympus brand 1600s (one set came with the C2100uz, the other set came with an Olympus charger).

So, does this mean that the Olympus brand is actually the Sanyo HR-3U also? (Surely it suggests that the Olympus cells are manufactured by Sanyo?)

And if so, how come the green Sanyos' charge clearly lasts longer than the Olympus brand, even though both are rated at 1600 mah?

Is it possible that, indeed, Sanyo makes two or more "HR" cells, not just the HR-3U? That would explain the disparity between the green cells and the Olympus brand, even though both are stamped with HR.

BTW, my GP 1800s are NOT stamped with HR.

David
 
DF said:
Yep, my green Sanyos are stamped HR on the negative pole.

And so are my two sets of Olympus brand 1600s (one set came with
the C2100uz, the other set came with an Olympus charger).

So, does this mean that the Olympus brand is actually the Sanyo
HR-3U also? (Surely it suggests that the Olympus cells are
manufactured by Sanyo?)

And if so, how come the green Sanyos' charge clearly lasts longer
than the Olympus brand, even though both are rated at 1600 mah?

Is it possible that, indeed, Sanyo makes two or more "HR" cells,
not just the HR-3U? That would explain the disparity between the
green cells and the Olympus brand, even though both are stamped
with HR.

BTW, my GP 1800s are NOT stamped with HR.
Click to expand...
I cannot say what Olympus did, but I ran a search on the Sanyo site for NiMH cells in 15 mm or smaller size. I have sent you email with a PDF of the results of the search.

Basicly it says that Sanyo has two cells at about 1600 mAHr. - the HR-3U and the HR-AAU. The HR-AAU has a flat top designed for welded tabs to allow the cells to be assembled into battery packs. The HR-3U has a button top for applications such as cameras and flashes &c.

So I STRONGLY suspect that the Olympus cells are the same HR-3U cells. As to why you have seen poor performance, I cannot say. I would suggest that you run them through several deep discharge/charge cycles. I have some 1300 mAHr. Quest cells that were not performing as well as I expected, and when I talked of that here someone suggested deep cycling them and that very definitely improved the performance by a tremendous amount. Deep cycling is relatively easy for me as the Maha chargers have this capability built in.

Harvey
 
Hey there Harvey,

I'll check out the info in the email a little later.

You are probably right that Sanyo only makes the two varieties of AA NiMh cells (one with button top, one without).

And perhaps my observations of the relative performance of the Olympus and "Sanyo green" flavors are faulty -- I don't have any equipment to do a true measured test.

But I have put both the Olympus brand and the Sanyo greens through several deep discharge cycles. (I have the MAHA C-204F also, as well as 4 other chargers.) And all of them have been through multiple tours of duty in the various cameras.

It sure seems to me that the green ones last longer -- but, as I say, I haven't measured this scientifically. And it's not that the Olympus brand give poor performance; they actually do quite well. It's just that the others seem to last clearly longer.

Despite what your literature search may suggest, my suspicious side clings somewhat to the notion that Sanyo may be producing two variants of the button-top HRs: one consumer-grade that it provides for manufacturers to label as their own (for example, the Olympus brand and those GE - Sanyos that you just received), and the second an industrial grade that are supplied with no label, just the green sleeve.

Call me a "conspiracy theorist" if you will!

David
 
Harvey,

Thanks for the email.

I just did a close visual inspection of the Sanyo green and Olympus brand cells side by side. It sure appears that they are identical, save for the cosmetics. In addition to having the HR stamped on the negative end, they both have identical looking coloration and metallic patterns on the positive end. (Very different from other brands I looked at to compare.)

So......perhaps Olympus really is supplying the same industrial strength cells, manufactured by Sanyo of course.

David
 
It could also be that the cells are tested and "graded" as is done with most microprocessors, better performers get a better rating and get the "STARKIST" label, while slightly lesser performers, which still meet the published specs, are sent off in the other packages to play with "Charlie the tuna..." :-)

Or, maybe manufacturing tolerances from one batch to another just causes minor performance differences and as long as the cells exceed the published specs they go out the door anyhow, under whichever packaging is required. It seems some people were saying the cells seemed to be more like 1800maH despite the published specs, so maybe some batches just happen to perform better?
 
Ah Gerald,

A very reasonable hypothesis! That makes a lot of sense. Plus, it gives a plausible explanation for all the issues in contention. I'm with you on that.

David
Gerald M. Payne said:
It could also be that the cells are tested and "graded" as is done
with most microprocessors, better performers get a better rating
and get the "STARKIST" label, while slightly lesser performers,
which still meet the published specs, are sent off in the other
packages to play with "Charlie the tuna..." :-)

Or, maybe manufacturing tolerances from one batch to another just
causes minor performance differences and as long as the cells
exceed the published specs they go out the door anyhow, under
whichever packaging is required. It seems some people were saying
the cells seemed to be more like 1800maH despite the published
specs, so maybe some batches just happen to perform better?
Click to expand...
 
I've been following this thread with interest. My Sanyo 'greens' have HR stamped on the negative terminal, as do my Olympus 1450 mAHr. The two 'brands' are also dimensionally and visually identical, save for the color of the insulation.

The Sanyos exhibited a steep forming curve. I got six shots out of a set after the first charge, about a dozen after the second charge, and (so far) over 80 on the third. I have high hopes for the forth.
Paul B
Harvey Fishman said:
Harvey Fishman said:
The cells that came with the GE Sanyo marking and blister packs> have an explicit 5 year warranty. Something that I did not have> with the green cells.> > Harvey
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Harvey Fishman said:
The cells that came with the GE Sanyo marking and blister packs
have an explicit 5 year warranty. Something that I did not have
with the green cells.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good reason to buy the name brand cells, but I wonder how one goes about warranting a product whose life span is dependent on charge cycles rather than time? Are they, in effect, saying, "our batteries are actually so good they will withstand possibly being recharged once a day which could end up meaning a lifetime of over 1800 cycles?" Now, that might be worth an extra penny or two... :-)
 
Paul B said:
The Sanyos exhibited a steep forming curve. I got six shots out of
a set after the first charge, about a dozen after the second
charge, and (so far) over 80 on the third. I have high hopes for
the forth.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should try turning the camera off, waiting a few seconds to a minute for them to "bounce back" and then turning the camera back on again to drain them a bit further, for a few times. I think you really need to bottom them out a few times to get them to really suck up a charge, those first two performances sounded kind of fishy? I've noticed that if my camera shuts down, I can usually turn it back on in a few seconds to a minute and get another couple of shots. Maybe the low starting charge and the camera were conspiring to keep the batteries from getting low enough to really take a good charge?
 
Here's a link to those GE Sanyo cells, at the Greenbatteries site. It does indeed mention the 5 year warranty.

http://store.yahoo.com/greenbatteries-store/aasan16mahni.html

Still unresolved is whether those cells, all dressed up in consumer clothing, were sorted and given a lower manufacturer grade than the green ones Sanyo distributes for industrial use.

FWIW, my personal favorite NiMH is the GP 1800, which presumably is not made by Sanyo.

David
 
Gerald M. Payne said:
Paul B said:
The Sanyos exhibited a steep forming curve. I got six shots out of
a set after the first charge, about a dozen after the second
charge, and (so far) over 80 on the third. I have high hopes for
the forth.
Click to expand...
Maybe you should try turning the camera off, waiting a few seconds
to a minute for them to "bounce back" and then turning the camera
back on again to drain them a bit further, for a few times. I
think you really need to bottom them out a few times to get them to
really suck up a charge, those first two performances sounded kind
of fishy? I've noticed that if my camera shuts down, I can usually
turn it back on in a few seconds to a minute and get another couple
of shots. Maybe the low starting charge and the camera were
conspiring to keep the batteries from getting low enough to really
take a good charge?
Click to expand...
Gerald,

Good thought. Maybe I'll try sucking the juice out of them through a low Ohm resistor for a while and monitor the on-load voltage.
Paul B
 
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