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Future Sigma DSLRs and batteries

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Chris Rijk

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In a number of speculative and "wish list" posts about the SD11, or whatever Sigma's next DSLR will be called, there's been comments on the battery system.

Do you think Sigma should include RCR-V3 batteries (and charger) will the camera? Maybe just with the kit options (to keep the "body only" price low)?

Putting it another way, do you think Sigma should strongly encourage the use of CR-V3 and RCR-V3 batteries, or go for something completely different in future? Personally, I'd prefer Sigma to keep using existing standards, since that gives us more choice, and generally better value. I think in the long term, it may be particularly beneficial, especially as new technology comes to market.

--
New SLR user and Sigma owner in London.
See my profile for my equipment list
 
Hi Chris,

I usually do not post that much, but this is a subject that has the potential to upset me easily.

I am using the SD-10 for 1 1/2 years now, the only batteries I have ever used are NiMH AA's. They give me between 200 and 350 shots per charge, depending on the temperature.
I am using the GP brand, also the GP U-smart charger. http://www.gpbatteries.de

The oldest AA's I have are about 8 years (!) old, 1500 mAh, they are still working fine.

All the discussions I have read about AA problems with the SD-10 are related to cheap batteries and lousy chargers imho. I can charge four completely discharged 2300s in about half an hour, even on 12V (motorbike). All "slow" chargers which fry the batteries for hours will damage them immidiately. Another important thing is to never store fully charged NiMHs for a longer time, always discharge them to about 40% before storing.

So, IF Sigma decides to use a camera-specific LiIon or whatever, this will be the reason for me not to buy it, even if it has 20 MP! Rechargeable CRV3 for those who never learn how to properly handle NiMH AAs are OK, as long as I can continue to use my AAs.

I am not willing to pay hundreds of €'s for a special battery, nor will I accept the trouble with in-camera-only charging or beeing limited to the use of a mains plug.

raven
 
Hi, use a GP charger, too. But get less shots for each charged set.

use mostly Ansmann 2300. My GP ones were lost "in transit" between my children's Gameboys and MP3 players.....
Which GP batteries do you prefer/can you recommend.

greetings
klaus
raven said:
Hi Chris,

I usually do not post that much, but this is a subject that has the
potential to upset me easily.
I am using the SD-10 for 1 1/2 years now, the only batteries I have
ever used are NiMH AA's. They give me between 200 and 350 shots per
charge, depending on the temperature.
I am using the GP brand, also the GP U-smart charger.
http://www.gpbatteries.de
The oldest AA's I have are about 8 years (!) old, 1500 mAh, they
are still working fine.
All the discussions I have read about AA problems with the SD-10
are related to cheap batteries and lousy chargers imho. I can
charge four completely discharged 2300s in about half an hour, even
on 12V (motorbike). All "slow" chargers which fry the batteries for
hours will damage them immidiately. Another important thing is to
never store fully charged NiMHs for a longer time, always discharge
them to about 40% before storing.

So, IF Sigma decides to use a camera-specific LiIon or whatever,
this will be the reason for me not to buy it, even if it has 20 MP!
Rechargeable CRV3 for those who never learn how to properly handle
NiMH AAs are OK, as long as I can continue to use my AAs.
I am not willing to pay hundreds of €'s for a special battery, nor
will I accept the trouble with in-camera-only charging or beeing
limited to the use of a mains plug.

raven
Click to expand...
--



http://www.pbase.com/exaklaus
 
I wasn't attacking AA batteries. I mostly use them myself.

I think RCR-V3s and CR-V3s are better though. For a start they work well in the cold. They also last longer. They're rather tight to fit in though.

I think CR-V3s and RCR-V3s are superior, though currently more expensive to buy, and it's annoying not having RCR-V3 rechargers that can do two (or more) batteries at once. I think including these batteries with the camera would help - improve the "out of box" experiance.

I'm curious about what others think about what Sigma could do to improve things.

--
New SLR user and Sigma owner in London.
See my profile for my equipment list
 
raven said:
So, IF Sigma decides to use a camera-specific LiIon or whatever,
this will be the reason for me not to buy it, even if it has 20 MP!
Click to expand...
While I agree that NiMHs do work in these Cameras if handled properly and that this is the most flexible, cheapest and whatever it has inherent disadvantages and I don't agree to anything else you said.

Have a look at this issue from sigma's side, they have all the trouble of getting cameras back and having angry users because they can't handle their cells, NiMHs are pretty critical in the SD10, it is pretty easy to screw up in a way that only gives very small amount of images. And Sigma gets all the yelling and has to pay all the service for those people.

RCR-V3 are less critical and imho the best solution if you want to keep the system open, but as a matter of fact it would be much easier to have a dedicated battery system.

They could adjust the battery test of the camera better because you only have to deal with only one type of cell, this also avoids the problem many are complaining about that the Camera goes off even though the batteries would still be good for some shoots. Furthermore they would have way more control about the cells and the chargers used thereby avoiding the biggest problems.

I think Sigma learned a lesson from the mess around batteries with the SD9 and SD10 and we are not going to see AAs again in the future.

--
http://www.pbase.com/dgross (work in progress)
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

 
My hope is that they maintain the usability of the current system allowing both the NiMH AA cells and the (r)crv3 cells. If they want to add a proprietary battery that would be good too as long as they make it in a tray that is compatible with the current tray. That would make everyone happy.

Mike
 
docmaas said:
My hope is that they maintain the usability of the current system
allowing both the NiMH AA cells and the (r)crv3 cells. If they
want to add a proprietary battery that would be good too as long as
they make it in a tray that is compatible with the current tray.
That would make everyone happy.
Click to expand...
I think so, too. Make a tray like now that interchanges with a custom pack.

As for Dominic's suggestion about the AAs, a better solution is to fix the power supply circuits to accept a lower input voltage, or reduce the power consumption, such that NiMH and maybe even alkalines can work well enough.

j
 
I have at least 16 AA Rayovac 15min rechargables I use in my SD10. I have more sets for my ringlight, and other uses. In the US they are cheap, available at places like Walmart and Target and I have never had a problem with them. I usually carry 4 or 8 with me on a hike, but often never change them till I get back.

Before I leave I make sure they are fully charged (it takes 15 min). To me this is not an issue. Keep in mind there is a right way and a wrong way to put the AAs in the tray, and I suspect those who get very few pix have reversed polarity.

I frequently full a 1 gig and two 512 cards on one set of Rayovacs. If it aint broke dont fix it.
 
The best thing Sigma could do is provide an instruction manual that must be read and followed before the camera, flashes, lenses will operate properly!
Oh. Wait. They do that now.
td
 
Chris Rijk said:
Do you think Sigma should include RCR-V3 batteries (and charger)
will the camera? Maybe just with the kit options (to keep the "body
only" price low)?
Click to expand...
Personally, I think the best thing is to provide the option.

A new type of battery tray with a built-in Lithiium pack would be the simple answer, rather than having to remove the tight-fitting CRV3 batteries every time you need to charge them.

As for the argument over NiMHs. The problem I found when using them, was that as I don't use the camera every day, I often found that when I did want to use it, the cells were flat, or I'd just get one or two shots before they died. The cameras that I've had that used dedicated batteries never suffered from that problem, which is why I changed to using R-CRV3s.

Having said that, it's good to have the option to change to AA cells if needed. The Lithium AA cells, although expensive, worked fine in my SD9 (I've not tried them in the SD10).

--
Thanks,
Gary.
 
Tom Rowland said:
... Keep in mind there is a right
way and a wrong way to put the AAs in the tray, and I suspect those
who get very few pix have reversed polarity.
Click to expand...
With any cells reversed the voltage will be way too low to work at all ever. That can't be the source of the problem.

Badly-conditioned batteries are more often the problem. People say that NiMH batteries don't have a memory effect, but their performance is actually a strong function of their charge/discharge history. If you drain them all the way and recharge them a few times when new, and every so often after that, they'll work much better.

j
 
Someone mentioned, years ago (well it seems like it) an easy way to make a piece of equipment that would drain the batteries quickly - as opposed to putting the in something that would slowly drain them. Do you remember that or have any suggestions?

Thanks

R
--
It's a tough job living in paradise but someone has to do it

http://www.lightreflection.com/lenstests/matrix.htm
http://www.lightreflection.com
http://www.silveroaksranch.com
http://www.pbase.com/rickdecker
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_home
 
Agree with that but... have you ever run out of charge while being somewhere and had to resort to store-bought AA's for an emergency "fix"? This is one great advantage of having an AA-capable tray there right from the start.

And people who are muppets will generally remain so... regardless of what you let them have/don't have.

:-)
 
Actually, NiMH has superior capacity per volume compared to rcrv3. This fact does not help with a camera that can't utlize all the energy in the battery. something as simple as room for 5 cells would help a lot though.

rcrv3 have other advantages, like not loosing so much charge in storage. And 6v/7.2v/8.4v gives signigicantly better autofocus spees than 4.8v too.

Helge Hafting
 
Helge Hafting said:
Actually, NiMH has superior capacity per volume compared to rcrv3.
This fact
Click to expand...
Is not a fact.

Li-Ion (rcrv3) has a 20-30% advantage over NiMH in either energy (W-H) per unit volume (l) or unit mass (g).

--

Salvage troll posts! When you see a thread started by a troll, post something useful to it. It will drive the trolls up the wall. ;)

Ciao!

Joe

http://www.swissarmyfork.com
 
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