Auto WB and Photoshop

There have been numerous discussions on the auto white balance issue of the 995. The key complaints are 1. Orange cast under incadescent light, 2. Blue cast under bright sunlight. For me, the only time the auto white balance ever works is under flash or cloudy conditions. I have been trying to use predefined settings to "solve" the problem but I do not think this is a 100% (or even 90%) foolproof solution either. Lighting conditions change even for the same light source (the sun). For example, I took a shot late in the afternoon few days ago. The Cloudy setting gave me slightly reddish cast but the auto white balance was right on. So, I can't win. Sure, I could return the camera, but after months of research before I took the plunge, this is not a solution either. I could carry a white card around and preset every time but I am sure my wife would think that I am nuts. (She already does based on the amount of time I spend on this site.)

Here comes the question: How do I (or Can I) remove the blue cast in Photoshop without affecting the rest of the colors? I read it in other forums that the WB can be adjusted in Photoshop if one shoots in RAW. Unfortunately, this is not available on the 995 and I use JPEG.

Thanks,

Shii

Hi Shii:
Try this site .
Don.
http://www.digitalsecrets.net/secrets/iCC2.html

Shii said:

There have been numerous discussions on the auto white balance
issue of the 995. The key complaints are 1. Orange cast under
incadescent light, 2. Blue cast under bright sunlight. For me, the
only time the auto white balance ever works is under flash or
cloudy conditions. I have been trying to use predefined settings to
"solve" the problem but I do not think this is a 100% (or even 90%)
foolproof solution either. Lighting conditions change even for the
same light source (the sun). For example, I took a shot late in the
afternoon few days ago. The Cloudy setting gave me slightly reddish
cast but the auto white balance was right on. So, I can't win.
Sure, I could return the camera, but after months of research
before I took the plunge, this is not a solution either. I could
carry a white card around and preset every time but I am sure my
wife would think that I am nuts. (She already does based on the
amount of time I spend on this site.)

Here comes the question: How do I (or Can I) remove the blue cast
in Photoshop without affecting the rest of the colors? I read it in
other forums that the WB can be adjusted in Photoshop if one shoots
in RAW. Unfortunately, this is not available on the 995 and I use
JPEG.

Thanks,

Shii

Click to expand...

Shii,

Your situation sounds just like mine....and your wife sounds like mine too

I too have experienced ALL of the same white balance issues that you have. Auto only works under some conditions. 98% of the time it gives a blue cast. The "Sunny" white balance gives me a green cast in direct sunlight. Manual is the only way to get reasonably acurate colors.

I called Nikon earlier today to ask if my camera was defective because of this...I can still return mine. The tech support guy told me:

"We know about the blue cast and that there are problems with the auto white balance. Manual works better than the auto WB right now. It will be fixed with the first firmware update. Usually 1-2 months after the camera is released. They are working on it in Japan."

I hope this guy is right! If I didn't get such a sale price on mine, I would probably return it and buy it again after it is fixed just to be sure.

Thomas

Shii said:

There have been numerous discussions on the auto white balance
issue of the 995. The key complaints are 1. Orange cast under
incadescent light, 2. Blue cast under bright sunlight. For me, the
only time the auto white balance ever works is under flash or
cloudy conditions. I have been trying to use predefined settings to
"solve" the problem but I do not think this is a 100% (or even 90%)
foolproof solution either. Lighting conditions change even for the
same light source (the sun). For example, I took a shot late in the
afternoon few days ago. The Cloudy setting gave me slightly reddish
cast but the auto white balance was right on. So, I can't win.
Sure, I could return the camera, but after months of research
before I took the plunge, this is not a solution either. I could
carry a white card around and preset every time but I am sure my
wife would think that I am nuts. (She already does based on the
amount of time I spend on this site.)

Here comes the question: How do I (or Can I) remove the blue cast
in Photoshop without affecting the rest of the colors? I read it in
other forums that the WB can be adjusted in Photoshop if one shoots
in RAW. Unfortunately, this is not available on the 995 and I use
JPEG.

Thanks,

Shii

Click to expand...

Shii,

About color balancing! Remember that all color balancing systems are in fact only comparators. They try to match to a known standard and as stated earlier that only using a calibrated grey/white scale card or reading the light source (incident light reading) will get you very close to "on". In some lighting situations like a warm tungston light you don't have enough of a percentage of the other colors get a properly balanced shot. Hence if you try to correct out the heavy yellow from this light, your shadows go blue and still the picture looks bad.

As humans, our brain can correct for color because it knows before hand what it s supposed to look like.
Color and its interpation is an endless and compliacated area.
Good luck
Jere Hock

Don Schultz said:

Shii said:

There have been numerous discussions on the auto white balance
issue of the 995. The key complaints are 1. Orange cast under
incadescent light, 2. Blue cast under bright sunlight. For me, the
only time the auto white balance ever works is under flash or
cloudy conditions. I have been trying to use predefined settings to
"solve" the problem but I do not think this is a 100% (or even 90%)
foolproof solution either. Lighting conditions change even for the
same light source (the sun). For example, I took a shot late in the
afternoon few days ago. The Cloudy setting gave me slightly reddish
cast but the auto white balance was right on. So, I can't win.
Sure, I could return the camera, but after months of research
before I took the plunge, this is not a solution either. I could
carry a white card around and preset every time but I am sure my
wife would think that I am nuts. (She already does based on the
amount of time I spend on this site.)

Here comes the question: How do I (or Can I) remove the blue cast
in Photoshop without affecting the rest of the colors? I read it in
other forums that the WB can be adjusted in Photoshop if one shoots
in RAW. Unfortunately, this is not available on the 995 and I use
JPEG.

Thanks,

Shii

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Don,

Thanks. I will try the technique out once I have my Photoshop in a few days.

Thansk again,

Shii

Don Schultz said:

Shii said:

There have been numerous discussions on the auto white balance
issue of the 995. The key complaints are 1. Orange cast under
incadescent light, 2. Blue cast under bright sunlight. For me, the
only time the auto white balance ever works is under flash or
cloudy conditions. I have been trying to use predefined settings to
"solve" the problem but I do not think this is a 100% (or even 90%)
foolproof solution either. Lighting conditions change even for the
same light source (the sun). For example, I took a shot late in the
afternoon few days ago. The Cloudy setting gave me slightly reddish
cast but the auto white balance was right on. So, I can't win.
Sure, I could return the camera, but after months of research
before I took the plunge, this is not a solution either. I could
carry a white card around and preset every time but I am sure my
wife would think that I am nuts. (She already does based on the
amount of time I spend on this site.)

Here comes the question: How do I (or Can I) remove the blue cast
in Photoshop without affecting the rest of the colors? I read it in
other forums that the WB can be adjusted in Photoshop if one shoots
in RAW. Unfortunately, this is not available on the 995 and I use
JPEG.

Thanks,

Shii

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thomas,

When you said "Manual is the only way to get reasonably acurate colors" I assume you mean carrying a white card around and take a preset reading every time. If so, I will have to agree with you. Just to check if the predefined settings work any better than auto white balance, I did an experiment today. I took 3 photos each in 3 separate sessions, morning, noon and late afternoon. In each session, I took photos with white balance set at AUTO, Cloudy and Sunny. Today, it was sunny with blue sky but lots of white clouds. I should not have set the WB to cloudy but I just wanted to make sure I had all the grounds covered. Guess what? Each one of these WB settings was good at one of the shooting sessions. In other word, there is no obvious choice for WB setting even for a nice sunny day like today. In one session, the Sunny setting was more blue than Auto. I am afraid I will have to be carrying the white card around, hope Nikon can fix the problem soon or return the camera. The problem is, if I return it, what else can I buy?

Shii

Thomas said:

Shii,

Your situation sounds just like mine....and your wife sounds like
mine too

I too have experienced ALL of the same white balance issues that
you have. Auto only works under some conditions. 98% of the time
it gives a blue cast. The "Sunny" white balance gives me a green
cast in direct sunlight. Manual is the only way to get reasonably
acurate colors.

I called Nikon earlier today to ask if my camera was defective
because of this...I can still return mine. The tech support guy
told me:

"We know about the blue cast and that there are problems with the
auto white balance. Manual works better than the auto WB right
now. It will be fixed with the first firmware update. Usually 1-2
months after the camera is released. They are working on it in
Japan."

I hope this guy is right! If I didn't get such a sale price on
mine, I would probably return it and buy it again after it is fixed
just to be sure.

Thomas

Click to expand...

I have not experienced the second problem (blue cast in sunlight) but the first and larger problem (strong orange cast in incandescent) is vastly improved jusy by manually selecting incandescent. I have not had to resort to full manual with a grey card yet.
John

Shii said:

When you said "Manual is the only way to get reasonably acurate
colors" I assume you mean carrying a white card around and take a
preset reading every time. If so, I will have to agree with you.
Just to check if the predefined settings work any better than auto
white balance, I did an experiment today. I took 3 photos each in 3
separate sessions, morning, noon and late afternoon. In each
session, I took photos with white balance set at AUTO, Cloudy and
Sunny. Today, it was sunny with blue sky but lots of white clouds.
I should not have set the WB to cloudy but I just wanted to make
sure I had all the grounds covered. Guess what? Each one of these
WB settings was good at one of the shooting sessions. In other
word, there is no obvious choice for WB setting even for a nice
sunny day like today. In one session, the Sunny setting was more
blue than Auto. I am afraid I will have to be carrying the white
card around, hope Nikon can fix the problem soon or return the
camera. The problem is, if I return it, what else can I buy?

Shii

Thomas said:

Shii,

Your situation sounds just like mine....and your wife sounds like
mine too

I too have experienced ALL of the same white balance issues that
you have. Auto only works under some conditions. 98% of the time
it gives a blue cast. The "Sunny" white balance gives me a green
cast in direct sunlight. Manual is the only way to get reasonably
acurate colors.

I called Nikon earlier today to ask if my camera was defective
because of this...I can still return mine. The tech support guy
told me:

"We know about the blue cast and that there are problems with the
auto white balance. Manual works better than the auto WB right
now. It will be fixed with the first firmware update. Usually 1-2
months after the camera is released. They are working on it in
Japan."

I hope this guy is right! If I didn't get such a sale price on
mine, I would probably return it and buy it again after it is fixed
just to be sure.

Thomas

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Shii #47521 said:

Shii #47521 said:

Shii #47521 said:

Here comes the question: How do I (or Can I) remove the blue cast
in Photoshop without affecting the rest of the colors? I read it in
other forums that the WB can be adjusted in Photoshop if one shoots
in RAW. Unfortunately, this is not available on the 995 and I use
JPEG.

Thanks,

Shii

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Shii, try PS image> adjust> hue and saturation. Move the hue slider in the RGB mode . Also try Image> adjust> curves in the blue channel and drag the mid-point down slightly, and move the midpoint up slightly in the red channel.
FJBrad

Shii,

Yes, by "Manual", I meant to say the preset white balance. I have done a number of tests with the preset WB, auto WB, and Sunny WB. I have also tested the fine tuning adjustments for Sunny. My Sunny pictures always come out too green. Preset WB was the only way. It's frustrating, as most of my pictures are outdoor pictures. This my first digicam, but I've been using Nikon 35mm cameras for 11 years.

I really want to keep the camera, but I'm worried that if they don't fix the problem I will be stuck with a fantastic camera that I will force me to use a white card for every picture or color correct (which I'm not that good at) each photo after I take it. Of course if they tech support is right, the problem will be fixed in a month or two.

Otherwise I really love the camera. There really aren't any other good options for me. I don't think that I would be happy with the Canon G1 and Sony S85. The Minolta D7 doesn't seem worth the money to me.

Thomas

Shii said:

When you said "Manual is the only way to get reasonably acurate
colors" I assume you mean carrying a white card around and take a
preset reading every time. If so, I will have to agree with you.
Just to check if the predefined settings work any better than auto
white balance, I did an experiment today. I took 3 photos each in 3
separate sessions, morning, noon and late afternoon. In each
session, I took photos with white balance set at AUTO, Cloudy and
Sunny. Today, it was sunny with blue sky but lots of white clouds.
I should not have set the WB to cloudy but I just wanted to make
sure I had all the grounds covered. Guess what? Each one of these
WB settings was good at one of the shooting sessions. In other
word, there is no obvious choice for WB setting even for a nice
sunny day like today. In one session, the Sunny setting was more
blue than Auto. I am afraid I will have to be carrying the white
card around, hope Nikon can fix the problem soon or return the
camera. The problem is, if I return it, what else can I buy?

Shii

Thomas said:

Shii,

Your situation sounds just like mine....and your wife sounds like
mine too

I too have experienced ALL of the same white balance issues that
you have. Auto only works under some conditions. 98% of the time
it gives a blue cast. The "Sunny" white balance gives me a green
cast in direct sunlight. Manual is the only way to get reasonably
acurate colors.

I called Nikon earlier today to ask if my camera was defective
because of this...I can still return mine. The tech support guy
told me:

"We know about the blue cast and that there are problems with the
auto white balance. Manual works better than the auto WB right
now. It will be fixed with the first firmware update. Usually 1-2
months after the camera is released. They are working on it in
Japan."

I hope this guy is right! If I didn't get such a sale price on
mine, I would probably return it and buy it again after it is fixed
just to be sure.

Thomas

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Thomas,

It seems that we both went through a similar selection process before we bought the 995 and we both have the same dissatisfaction in color qualiy of this otherwise wonderful camera.

One concern I do have is the possibility of Nikon can actually come up with a firmware fix for the problem. The reason why I am wondering is because image processing is a high speed operation and it is highly likely that most, if not all, of the operations is "hard wired" in the electronics. For example, magenta cast of the Canon G1 has been a known problem and the biggest complaint among G1 users for some time. Recently, it was "discovered" that the magenta cast does not exist in RAW. It only happens in FINE which is a light JPEG compression. I believe the compression is done on the DSP chip. If this is something that can be fixed by a firmware upgrade, I am sure Canon would have done it long time ago. Would the Nikon "blue cast" in daylight and "orange cast" in incadescent light be in the same category? I wonder.

What bugs me the most is that I thought the 995 was supposed to be the 3rd (or 4th?) generation camera in the 9XX series and most bugs should have been worked out. Besides, I was told that white balance did work on the 990. How and why Nikon screwed it up? I am sure color quality is a key consideration in any camera. Why would Nikon even let the camera on the market? They are not blind, they must have seen it. (especially the orange cast). I cannot classify this problem as a bug because a bug is something that does not show up under normal testing. Orange case is definitely not in this category.

On a more positive note, thanks to all the wonderful people who replied to my original question, fixing the problem using Photoshop or any other photo editing package is really easy.

Shii

Thomas said:

Yes, by "Manual", I meant to say the preset white balance. I have
done a number of tests with the preset WB, auto WB, and Sunny WB.
I have also tested the fine tuning adjustments for Sunny. My
Sunny pictures always come out too green. Preset WB was the only
way. It's frustrating, as most of my pictures are outdoor
pictures. This my first digicam, but I've been using Nikon 35mm
cameras for 11 years.

I really want to keep the camera, but I'm worried that if they
don't fix the problem I will be stuck with a fantastic camera that
I will force me to use a white card for every picture or color
correct (which I'm not that good at) each photo after I take it.
Of course if they tech support is right, the problem will be fixed
in a month or two.

Otherwise I really love the camera. There really aren't any other
good options for me. I don't think that I would be happy with the
Canon G1 and Sony S85. The Minolta D7 doesn't seem worth the
money to me.

Thomas

Shii said:

When you said "Manual is the only way to get reasonably acurate
colors" I assume you mean carrying a white card around and take a
preset reading every time. If so, I will have to agree with you.
Just to check if the predefined settings work any better than auto
white balance, I did an experiment today. I took 3 photos each in 3
separate sessions, morning, noon and late afternoon. In each
session, I took photos with white balance set at AUTO, Cloudy and
Sunny. Today, it was sunny with blue sky but lots of white clouds.
I should not have set the WB to cloudy but I just wanted to make
sure I had all the grounds covered. Guess what? Each one of these
WB settings was good at one of the shooting sessions. In other
word, there is no obvious choice for WB setting even for a nice
sunny day like today. In one session, the Sunny setting was more
blue than Auto. I am afraid I will have to be carrying the white
card around, hope Nikon can fix the problem soon or return the
camera. The problem is, if I return it, what else can I buy?

Shii

Thomas said:

Shii,

Your situation sounds just like mine....and your wife sounds like
mine too

I too have experienced ALL of the same white balance issues that
you have. Auto only works under some conditions. 98% of the time
it gives a blue cast. The "Sunny" white balance gives me a green
cast in direct sunlight. Manual is the only way to get reasonably
acurate colors.

I called Nikon earlier today to ask if my camera was defective
because of this...I can still return mine. The tech support guy
told me:

"We know about the blue cast and that there are problems with the
auto white balance. Manual works better than the auto WB right
now. It will be fixed with the first firmware update. Usually 1-2
months after the camera is released. They are working on it in
Japan."

I hope this guy is right! If I didn't get such a sale price on
mine, I would probably return it and buy it again after it is fixed
just to be sure.

Thomas

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...