So , what is the truth ?

Mike51892

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Hi

I was reading the Minolta official DImage7 brochure at :

http://www.dimage.minolta.com/d7d5/page02.html

where it says about the Macro ability :

"The DiMAGE 7 has a maximum magnification of 0.7X, and covers a wide imaging area of approx. 4 x 5 cm (1.6 x 2 inches)"

BUT...

reviewers claim different numbers , like the one in Imaging-Resource :
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70P.HTM

where it says :

"Activated by a small switch on the lens barrel, a macro focusing mode allows you to focus in on objects as close as 5 inches (13 cm) from the lens surface. A mechanical interlock prevents the Macro mode switch from being thrown unless the camera is at maximum telephoto. The minimum macro area covered at closest focus is a fairly small 1.93 x 1.44 inches (48.9 x 36.7 mm)"

so , which is it 4x5 cm or 48.9x36.7 ?

can the DImage7 give the coolpix a fight in the macro department or is still Nikon's domain ?

thanks for your help...
 
You're kidding right? I'm gonna cut ya some slack, cause I don't know ya, and ya might just be brighter than you look. Look at the numbers again - one's "cm" the other's "mm". There's a less than 10% difference - you get cheated more on a box of corn flakes. For absolute magnification the Nikon wins - for usability the Minolta trounces the Nikon.

Wayne
Hi

I was reading the Minolta official DImage7 brochure at :

http://www.dimage.minolta.com/d7d5/page02.html

where it says about the Macro ability :

"The DiMAGE 7 has a maximum magnification of 0.7X, and covers a
wide imaging area of approx. 4 x 5 cm (1.6 x 2 inches)"

BUT...

reviewers claim different numbers , like the one in Imaging-Resource :
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70P.HTM

where it says :

"Activated by a small switch on the lens barrel, a macro focusing
mode allows you to focus in on objects as close as 5 inches (13 cm)
from the lens surface. A mechanical interlock prevents the Macro
mode switch from being thrown unless the camera is at maximum
telephoto. The minimum macro area covered at closest focus is a
fairly small 1.93 x 1.44 inches (48.9 x 36.7 mm)"

so , which is it 4x5 cm or 48.9x36.7 ?

can the DImage7 give the coolpix a fight in the macro department or
is still Nikon's domain ?

thanks for your help...
 
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
Wayne
Hi

I was reading the Minolta official DImage7 brochure at :

http://www.dimage.minolta.com/d7d5/page02.html

where it says about the Macro ability :

"The DiMAGE 7 has a maximum magnification of 0.7X, and covers a
wide imaging area of approx. 4 x 5 cm (1.6 x 2 inches)"

BUT...

reviewers claim different numbers , like the one in Imaging-Resource :
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70P.HTM

where it says :

"Activated by a small switch on the lens barrel, a macro focusing
mode allows you to focus in on objects as close as 5 inches (13 cm)
from the lens surface. A mechanical interlock prevents the Macro
mode switch from being thrown unless the camera is at maximum
telephoto. The minimum macro area covered at closest focus is a
fairly small 1.93 x 1.44 inches (48.9 x 36.7 mm)"

so , which is it 4x5 cm or 48.9x36.7 ?

can the DImage7 give the coolpix a fight in the macro department or
is still Nikon's domain ?

thanks for your help...
 
Umm....how much money you got....????

I have a Kodak pro camera that with 60mm Nikon micro puts a 1:1 image on the CCD. (The image on the CCD is the same size as the original).

Or with a D30 you can do the same or even make it bigger.

But I assume you're talking only prosumer cameras.

We have a couple old Sony DKC-ID1s here at work. They focus to 1/2" away.

But with a Dimage 7 you can throw away almost 50% if the pixels and be at the same resolution as the 990....sooooo......

BC
Hi

I was reading the Minolta official DImage7 brochure at :

http://www.dimage.minolta.com/d7d5/page02.html

where it says about the Macro ability :

"The DiMAGE 7 has a maximum magnification of 0.7X, and covers a
wide imaging area of approx. 4 x 5 cm (1.6 x 2 inches)"

BUT...

reviewers claim different numbers , like the one in Imaging-Resource :
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70P.HTM

where it says :

"Activated by a small switch on the lens barrel, a macro focusing
mode allows you to focus in on objects as close as 5 inches (13 cm)
from the lens surface. A mechanical interlock prevents the Macro
mode switch from being thrown unless the camera is at maximum
telephoto. The minimum macro area covered at closest focus is a
fairly small 1.93 x 1.44 inches (48.9 x 36.7 mm)"

so , which is it 4x5 cm or 48.9x36.7 ?

can the DImage7 give the coolpix a fight in the macro department or
is still Nikon's domain ?

thanks for your help...
 
I don't think that other makers see a benefit in offering that feature. At a working distance of 1cm you're not going to be photographing anything that doesn't really, really want to be photographed. Mostly inanimate and dead things I suppose. Also the short focal lengrh combined with the short working distance will give you distortion and "interesting" perspective. Also, don't try to get any lights inbetween the lens and the subject (maybe LED's). Working distance is where it's at, you can never have too much. You can add diopter lenses to any camera with filter threads (and also those without with some fiddling), they will get you closer and deliver a bigger image. But since the Minolta uses a longer focal length lens to begin with you will always get a more magnified image at the same lens to subject distance when compared against the Nikon. I'm starting out with a Minolta #2 diopter (+3.8) and a Hoya +10 diopter - I'll see where they lead me first.

Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
well , maybe it's because I am a beginner that I ask that but it seems to me that users and many reviewers rave the 995 for its macro capabilities ,now why would they do that if it is not important ? for example if I want to shot insects and fill the entire frame with the inscet body , wouldnt the nikon be a better choice for me ? since the nikon can fill the frame with just 4x5 mm ...

please educate me .... thanks
Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
Well, for one the pin holding the insect to the table is going to bump into the lens when you try to focus. Think about it. When was the last time you got any part of you within 1cm of an insect that wasn't dead or sucking your blood? The Nikon is the "Mosquito Shooter's Special", don't know what else I'd use it for. Believe me (any other supporting opinions are welcome guys) the longer focal length of the Minolta is much more practical. Trying to hold focus on a moving subject that is 1cm away might be fun to watch - but you'll not have fun doing it. I don't know what else I can say. Cruise the net and get more information for yourself. Try someone's camera if you can. As to why reviewers do what they do? I dunno, it's way beyond my comprehension.

Wayne
please educate me .... thanks
Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
I recently read on another thread that there is a accessory lense for the Nikon coolpix 950,990,995 that increases the macro side by a factor of 3X.
Will
I have a Kodak pro camera that with 60mm Nikon micro puts a 1:1
image on the CCD. (The image on the CCD is the same size as the
original).

Or with a D30 you can do the same or even make it bigger.

But I assume you're talking only prosumer cameras.

We have a couple old Sony DKC-ID1s here at work. They focus to 1/2"
away.

But with a Dimage 7 you can throw away almost 50% if the pixels and
be at the same resolution as the 990....sooooo......

BC
Hi

I was reading the Minolta official DImage7 brochure at :

http://www.dimage.minolta.com/d7d5/page02.html

where it says about the Macro ability :

"The DiMAGE 7 has a maximum magnification of 0.7X, and covers a
wide imaging area of approx. 4 x 5 cm (1.6 x 2 inches)"

BUT...

reviewers claim different numbers , like the one in Imaging-Resource :
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/D7/D70P.HTM

where it says :

"Activated by a small switch on the lens barrel, a macro focusing
mode allows you to focus in on objects as close as 5 inches (13 cm)
from the lens surface. A mechanical interlock prevents the Macro
mode switch from being thrown unless the camera is at maximum
telephoto. The minimum macro area covered at closest focus is a
fairly small 1.93 x 1.44 inches (48.9 x 36.7 mm)"

so , which is it 4x5 cm or 48.9x36.7 ?

can the DImage7 give the coolpix a fight in the macro department or
is still Nikon's domain ?

thanks for your help...
 
O.K. this isn't funny anymore (actually it is but then I'm pretty warped) when are you going to get your act together? P-O-S-T good! U-N-D-O bad!

Wayne

The Man wrote:
 
Hey, i'm having a bad day. LOL
O.K. this isn't funny anymore (actually it is but then I'm pretty
warped) when are you going to get your act together? P-O-S-T good!
U-N-D-O bad!

Wayne

The Man wrote:
 
You think you're having a bad day! I'm still scrounging for a D7 - it might be ANOTHER two weeks.

Wayne
O.K. this isn't funny anymore (actually it is but then I'm pretty
warped) when are you going to get your act together? P-O-S-T good!
U-N-D-O bad!

Wayne

The Man wrote:
 
for example if I want to shot insects and fill the
entire frame with the inscet body , wouldnt the nikon be a better
choice for me ? since the nikon can fill the frame with just 4x5 mm
Be careful what you're comparing, Mike -- I wonder if that 4x5 mm that's in your mind came from Lin Evans' response to your "Help me!" thread. He mentioned a 1/4" subject width (6.3 mm), and he was just giving you a ready example: it would be achievable only via a supplementary lens (I would guess an accessory from Nikon's popular range). If you read Phil's review, you'll find that the minimum subject width for the CP995 with its nomal, built-in lens at minimum focussing distance (i.e. "native" macro capability) is 19 mm not 5. It's clearly evident from a shot of a steel rule.

OK, that's about twice the native maximum "magnification" of the Minolta D5, which is slightly higher in turn than the D7. But to achieve the maximum capability of the CP995 you will be working at about 20 mm or less from your subject. As others have pointed out, that is extremely close in practical terms, and has its own disavantages such as subject interference, potential difficulty with lighting, and accentuated perspective.

We can all only throw in our own individual ways of looking at this. In my case, I'll be going for the D7 when it arrives. I think that the built-in capabilities of the 7x zoom with its native macro performance (albeit less than that of the CP995) is the more versatile package for my purposes . A supplementary closeup lens or two should close the remaining gap, against the native 995 capability, to give me all the macro performance I'll ever need; i.e. I'll be heading in the same direction as Wayne (below). A big plus I feel is that it achieves its maximum macro performance at a lens-to-subject distance vastly greater than a CP995 set for the scame subject scale factor. I'm guessing, obviously, but for the same 49 mm frame fill on the 995 (to match the D5), it's still going to be uncomfortably close to the subject. Having said that, who's going to complain about Lin's bee shots? (Although he did make the point that the bees were more placid at that time of year!)

I also have an extremely high aversion to chromatic aberration, and the D5 and D7 appear to have a sizeable advantage here. But that's not to say that I don't respect the CP995 as a bloody good camera from all that I've read! You run the possibility of bugs and the occasional total lemon in even the best brands. You've been given assurances about this by seasoned CP9xx users, and I believe you can buy a 995 with confidence if its feature set fills your needs.

While other cameras most certainly can take advantage of supplementary lenses, Lin's biggest point for the 995 was perhaps that, in addition to its impressive native macro capability, this camera is known to interface very well with microscope and telescope eyepieces -- largely because of its unusually small lens barrel diameter but presumably also because of its internal design. There's an interesting and, I think, rather entertaining thread going at the moment to do with this:

"Canada Goose at 440 feet"
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&page=1&message=1285445

In the end it's your decision as to what combination of built-in features, versus what you can do with accessories, represents the most practical package for the bulk of your shooting. I honestly believe the reliability issue is a long way down the list. The important thing here is to buy -- whatever your choice -- from a reputable dealer who will be on-side should you be unlucky enough to have problems.

MF
Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
I use the very close macro of my 990 for slide copying off a light table. It is a great feature. However, having that in a 990 makes me rather indifferent to the ordinary macro capability fo the D7. But, if I really want to use it , I will stick my Schneider Componon-S 150 mm on the end of the D7 and really have some closeup magnification capacity--now that I can not do with my 990.

dh
Wayne
please educate me .... thanks
Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
I was thinking the same thing (I also have a 150 S) but that is only a +7 diopter, and rather heavy (probably weighs more than the 990). So I bought the Minolta +3.8 and Hoya +10 diopters. Now... I also have a Nikon 80mm (+12.5) a Nikon and a Componon 50 (+20) AND have purchased and am waiting for a Pentax110 24mm (+42) and a Pentax110 18mm (+55)! I was looking for the Minolta 30mm f/2.8 but the seller never got back to me. Vignetting may be a problem with the 110 lenses, but if it is I'll see if spacers will allieviate it. I'm set for > 2:1 if everything works out o.k. The good thing about the 110 lenses is that they are retrofocus - I'll have more working distance. As to the slide copying with the 990 I would expect that field curvature would be a problem. This is so much easier in 35mm!

Wayne
I use the very close macro of my 990 for slide copying off a light
table. It is a great feature. However, having that in a 990 makes
me rather indifferent to the ordinary macro capability fo the D7.
But, if I really want to use it , I will stick my Schneider
Componon-S 150 mm on the end of the D7 and really have some closeup
magnification capacity--now that I can not do with my 990.

dh
 
Hi Mike,

well you got me there , I am really confused , this is my first digicam and I am getting so much information that I really cant figure it out.

Macro seem to important , since most the beautifull pictures are macro , but how close is too close , I think you are right getting 2cm from a insect in nature (unless I kill it first) is not practicale , I would probably like to get better zoom and stand 100cm from it (if I only I can fill the frame with its body?) , when shoting objects and flowers this is not relevant , so I guess this is where the 995 really kicks in ...

Nikon 995 is a very good camera , with a unique macro ability , but :
  • It's lens are not as good nowdays
  • lots of chroma
  • vibrating body
  • bad LCD in sunlight
  • noticable Barrel and Pincushion Distortion
  • battery that requeires 6.5 hours to charge (europe)
  • constant hunting for focus
etc
etc

from the last reviews I have read there simply seems to be better cameras out there and more are coming (right?) so if I am to buy one today would'nt I be better off waiting to see what new models are coming? sure the coolpix is considered one of the best now , but in 3-4 months it is not match for the better camera with better lens and features and less buggy body and firmware. this is just my "beginner" assessment of the situation, am I wrong ?

thanks for your advice
for example if I want to shot insects and fill the
entire frame with the inscet body , wouldnt the nikon be a better
choice for me ? since the nikon can fill the frame with just 4x5 mm
Be careful what you're comparing, Mike -- I wonder if that 4x5 mm
that's in your mind came from Lin Evans' response to your "Help
me!" thread. He mentioned a 1/4" subject width (6.3 mm), and he was
just giving you a ready example: it would be achievable only via a
supplementary lens (I would guess an accessory from Nikon's popular
range). If you read Phil's review, you'll find that the minimum
subject width for the CP995 with its nomal, built-in lens at
minimum focussing distance (i.e. "native" macro capability) is 19
mm not 5. It's clearly evident from a shot of a steel rule.

OK, that's about twice the native maximum "magnification" of the
Minolta D5, which is slightly higher in turn than the D7. But to
achieve the maximum capability of the CP995 you will be working at
about 20 mm or less from your subject. As others have pointed out,
that is extremely close in practical terms, and has its own
disavantages such as subject interference, potential difficulty
with lighting, and accentuated perspective.

We can all only throw in our own individual ways of looking at
this. In my case, I'll be going for the D7 when it arrives. I think
that the built-in capabilities of the 7x zoom with its native macro
performance (albeit less than that of the CP995) is the more
versatile package for my purposes . A supplementary closeup lens
or two should close the remaining gap, against the native 995
capability, to give me all the macro performance I'll ever need;
i.e. I'll be heading in the same direction as Wayne (below). A big
plus I feel is that it achieves its maximum macro performance at
a lens-to-subject distance vastly greater than a CP995 set for the
scame subject scale factor. I'm guessing, obviously, but for the
same 49 mm frame fill on the 995 (to match the D5), it's still
going to be uncomfortably close to the subject. Having said that,
who's going to complain about Lin's bee shots? (Although he did
make the point that the bees were more placid at that time of year!)

I also have an extremely high aversion to chromatic aberration, and
the D5 and D7 appear to have a sizeable advantage here. But that's
not to say that I don't respect the CP995 as a bloody good camera
from all that I've read! You run the possibility of bugs and the
occasional total lemon in even the best brands. You've been given
assurances about this by seasoned CP9xx users, and I believe you
can buy a 995 with confidence if its feature set fills your needs.

While other cameras most certainly can take advantage of
supplementary lenses, Lin's biggest point for the 995 was perhaps
that, in addition to its impressive native macro capability, this
camera is known to interface very well with microscope and
telescope eyepieces -- largely because of its unusually small lens
barrel diameter but presumably also because of its internal design.
There's an interesting and, I think, rather entertaining thread
going at the moment to do with this:

"Canada Goose at 440 feet"
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&page=1&message=1285445

In the end it's your decision as to what combination of built-in
features, versus what you can do with accessories, represents the
most practical package for the bulk of your shooting. I honestly
believe the reliability issue is a long way down the list. The
important thing here is to buy -- whatever your choice -- from a
reputable dealer who will be on-side should you be unlucky enough
to have problems.

MF
Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
Patience? Patience? To hell with patience I want my camera. This sounds like something Confucius might have said (not a shot - don't even try to be offended). At this point $100 or so means nothing - I'll get that much enjoyment out of the camera in the first week. I just WANT it.

Wayne
Joo
You think you're having a bad day! I'm still scrounging for a D7 -
it might be ANOTHER two weeks.

Wayne
 
Hi Mike,

Well, I think that you are overreacting to some things that you heard about the 995. Don't forget that the 995 cost is half what the Minolta D7 would cost (I assume you are interested in that camera because you are in the Minolta forum). The 995 is a great camera; there is a reason that it always comes up in any camera comparision discussion. See below.
Hi Mike,

Nikon 995 is a very good camera , with a unique macro ability , but :
  • It's lens are not as good nowdays
I woud disagree. It is very sharp (look at the resolution numbers), has a 4X zoom, and has less than averager chromatic aberration.
  • lots of chroma
It is actually less than some other cameras.
  • vibrating body
Eh? Are you talking about the continuous focus mode? First, it isn't as bad as you make it out to be, second, most people just turn it off and use single autofocus mode.
  • bad LCD in sunlight
Again, it is about as good as any of them in sunlight. I doubt that the LCD on the D7 is any better.
  • noticable Barrel and Pincushion Distortion
Actually, better than average. Actually,about the same as the D7.
  • battery that requeires 6.5 hours to charge (europe)
True.
  • constant hunting for focus
This is the same as your previous point, again, turn it off if you don't like that.
etc
etc

from the last reviews I have read there simply seems to be better
cameras out there and more are coming (right?) so if I am to buy
one today would'nt I be better off waiting to see what new models
are coming? sure the coolpix is considered one of the best now ,
but in 3-4 months it is not match for the better camera with better
lens and features and less buggy body and firmware. this is just my
"beginner" assessment of the situation, am I wrong ?
You know, that will always be the case. In 6 months there will be better cameras, but the 995 will still hold it's own if you are comparing 3mpixel cameras. People are still buying the CP950, a three year old camera, and it has held its value as well as any camera that age has.

Bryan
thanks for your advice
for example if I want to shot insects and fill the
entire frame with the inscet body , wouldnt the nikon be a better
choice for me ? since the nikon can fill the frame with just 4x5 mm
Be careful what you're comparing, Mike -- I wonder if that 4x5 mm
that's in your mind came from Lin Evans' response to your "Help
me!" thread. He mentioned a 1/4" subject width (6.3 mm), and he was
just giving you a ready example: it would be achievable only via a
supplementary lens (I would guess an accessory from Nikon's popular
range). If you read Phil's review, you'll find that the minimum
subject width for the CP995 with its nomal, built-in lens at
minimum focussing distance (i.e. "native" macro capability) is 19
mm not 5. It's clearly evident from a shot of a steel rule.

OK, that's about twice the native maximum "magnification" of the
Minolta D5, which is slightly higher in turn than the D7. But to
achieve the maximum capability of the CP995 you will be working at
about 20 mm or less from your subject. As others have pointed out,
that is extremely close in practical terms, and has its own
disavantages such as subject interference, potential difficulty
with lighting, and accentuated perspective.

We can all only throw in our own individual ways of looking at
this. In my case, I'll be going for the D7 when it arrives. I think
that the built-in capabilities of the 7x zoom with its native macro
performance (albeit less than that of the CP995) is the more
versatile package for my purposes . A supplementary closeup lens
or two should close the remaining gap, against the native 995
capability, to give me all the macro performance I'll ever need;
i.e. I'll be heading in the same direction as Wayne (below). A big
plus I feel is that it achieves its maximum macro performance at
a lens-to-subject distance vastly greater than a CP995 set for the
scame subject scale factor. I'm guessing, obviously, but for the
same 49 mm frame fill on the 995 (to match the D5), it's still
going to be uncomfortably close to the subject. Having said that,
who's going to complain about Lin's bee shots? (Although he did
make the point that the bees were more placid at that time of year!)

I also have an extremely high aversion to chromatic aberration, and
the D5 and D7 appear to have a sizeable advantage here. But that's
not to say that I don't respect the CP995 as a bloody good camera
from all that I've read! You run the possibility of bugs and the
occasional total lemon in even the best brands. You've been given
assurances about this by seasoned CP9xx users, and I believe you
can buy a 995 with confidence if its feature set fills your needs.

While other cameras most certainly can take advantage of
supplementary lenses, Lin's biggest point for the 995 was perhaps
that, in addition to its impressive native macro capability, this
camera is known to interface very well with microscope and
telescope eyepieces -- largely because of its unusually small lens
barrel diameter but presumably also because of its internal design.
There's an interesting and, I think, rather entertaining thread
going at the moment to do with this:

"Canada Goose at 440 feet"
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&page=1&message=1285445

In the end it's your decision as to what combination of built-in
features, versus what you can do with accessories, represents the
most practical package for the bulk of your shooting. I honestly
believe the reliability issue is a long way down the list. The
important thing here is to buy -- whatever your choice -- from a
reputable dealer who will be on-side should you be unlucky enough
to have problems.

MF
Wayne
Wow! I can't believe I missed that, I guess my eyes are not what
they used to be...

so , again , no camera can go head to head with the nikon , why is
that , what is so special about nikon that ONLY they can get so
close ?

is there a way to make other cameras to get closer ?

thanks
 
... Don't forget that the 995 cost is half what
the Minolta D7 would cost ...
Not here in the Uk -- the price of the 995 is about £750 to £799, whilst the price of the D7 is about £950 to £999. Not a huge difference.
 

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