depth of field

My hang up with my FZ-15 so far is getting good depth of field where the foreground is in focus and as you get further away it is blury.Anyone shed any light on this issue? I can send an example by email.

ps it is me not the camera

Plenty has been said on this subject which could be found with quick search. Basically the quick story is, digicams use a tiny sensor and also small focal lenght lenses (true focal length, not the 35mm equivalent). These two things together mean you aren't gonna get the shallow DOF like you would with a DSLR that uses a sensor several times larger than a Digicam's plus larger focal length lenses. Remember the FZ20 only has a 72mm lens. If you want a better, more in depth answer, you can do a search and probably find one.
--
Mike
http://www.pbase.com/mike_curtis

I'm not resourceful enough to insert a witty quip or intelligent quote here....

The best way to get a shallow(er) DOF is to use full zoom and move close to the subject.
--
Mike
http://www.pbase.com/mike_curtis

I'm not resourceful enough to insert a witty quip or intelligent quote here....

there are 3 routes you can go...

1 being a +1 diopter lens which allows you to focus at full zoom closer to the subject thus leaving the background rather blurry

the other being a tad bit mor work... put the lens right up close to something like printed text and at full wide angle focus on it then lock your focus and point hte camera at the subject then zoom in (yes that is right zoom in) until the subject becomes in focus (at this point you may want to do a little tweaking with manual focus to get it just right)

basically locking the focus on a really close object also limits the DOF to what you where focusing on and as you zoom in the DOF gets slightly larger

one last way is to make the bckgrouns more blurry in post processing

i hope this helps

Mike from Canada

An aperture setting of F2.8 at full zoom will maximize your DOF. Unfortunately, we cannot get the silky smooth backgrounds and small DOF that SLR's provide.

--
No place is boring if you've had a good night's sleep and have an FZ20!

Will
St. Louis, MO

You can use a telephoto extender and shoot at full zoom, maybe 10-15 feet from your subject. If the subject is sufficiently distant from the background, it can work like this (FZ1 + TCON-17) shot:



--
Just let a smile be your umbrella!

John Reed

Panasonic: EffZeeOneVeeTwo, EffZeeFifteen; Nikon: CPFortyFiveHundred

MightyMike said:

put the lens right up close
to something like printed text and at full wide angle focus on it
then lock your focus and point hte camera at the subject then zoom
in (yes that is right zoom in) until the subject becomes in focus
(at this point you may want to do a little tweaking with manual
focus to get it just right)

Click to expand...

Curious as to where this method came from as I have never even heard of this. Also wondering why you would even go through this trouble in the first place. DOF is controlled by aperture, focal length, and camera to subject distance. Focusing on something close isn't gonna change anything if light is bright and camera chooses a smaller aperture. Best way is to set Aperture priority on f/2.8 and zoom is as much as you can to still get the composition you want. Then if possible move your physical distance closer. The FZ can focus as close as 6 or 7 feet at full optical zoom (don't remember exactly), so the least amount of DOF is going to be obtained at full optical zoom using f/2.8 and being at the minimum focusing distance. Also, the background will be more blurred the farther away from the subject it is. The above is true if you aren't using a +1 dioptre lens as mentioned...

--
Mike
http://www.pbase.com/mike_curtis

I'm not resourceful enough to insert a witty quip or intelligent quote here....

StillWill said:

An aperture setting of F2.8 at full zoom will maximize your DOF.

Click to expand...

Your idea is correct, but your wording is incorrect. This will MINIMIZE your DOF, not maximize it.

--
Mike
http://www.pbase.com/mike_curtis

I'm not resourceful enough to insert a witty quip or intelligent quote here....

Very nice rose image, John. I guess the old timers on this forum just have to be patient and teach the newbies. They don't seem to be able to search the forum for the pertinent information.

geeno
FZ1v2

I came across it purely by accident while experimenting with the camera

here are 2 examples taken from the same spot... (and yes i'm sure F2.8 played a facter but it wasn't the only thing)

F2.8 25.3mm (4.2x zoom)



F2.8 28.9mm (4.8x zoom)



notice how shallow the DOF is! maybe you have an explanation for this? I thought i had one but you don't entirely agree.

Mike from Canada

Medic1210 said:

MightyMike said:

put the lens right up close
to something like printed text and at full wide angle focus on it
then lock your focus and point hte camera at the subject then zoom
in (yes that is right zoom in) until the subject becomes in focus
(at this point you may want to do a little tweaking with manual
focus to get it just right)

Click to expand...

Curious as to where this method came from as I have never even
heard of this. Also wondering why you would even go through this
trouble in the first place. DOF is controlled by aperture, focal
length, and camera to subject distance. Focusing on something
close isn't gonna change anything if light is bright and camera
chooses a smaller aperture. Best way is to set Aperture priority
on f/2.8 and zoom is as much as you can to still get the
composition you want. Then if possible move your physical distance
closer. The FZ can focus as close as 6 or 7 feet at full optical
zoom (don't remember exactly), so the least amount of DOF is going
to be obtained at full optical zoom using f/2.8 and being at the
minimum focusing distance. Also, the background will be more
blurred the farther away from the subject it is. The above is true
if you aren't using a +1 dioptre lens as mentioned...

--
Mike
http://www.pbase.com/mike_curtis

I'm not resourceful enough to insert a witty quip or intelligent
quote here....

Click to expand...

MightyMike said:

I came across it purely by accident while experimenting with the
camera

here are 2 examples taken from the same spot... (and yes i'm sure
F2.8 played a facter but it wasn't the only thing)

F2.8 25.3mm (4.2x zoom)



F2.8 28.9mm (4.8x zoom)



notice how shallow the DOF is! maybe you have an explanation for
this? I thought i had one but you don't entirely agree.

Mike from Canada

Click to expand...

The explanation is because you are so close to the object you are shooting. As mentioned, subject to camera distance is a big factor in DOF. The closer you are, the shallower the DOF. This is why when using the macro mode on the camera, the DOF is shallow, even at f/8 and full wide angle focal length, because you are so close to the subject. Again, not sure why you would go through the trouble of focusing close at wide angle and then adjust zoom until you achieve focus. Just set your f/stop to f/2.8, get as close as you can, and then zoom until the subject fills the frame. As long as you are within the minimum focus distance, your DOF will be as shallow as possible. If you cannot get closer than 6 or so feet, you need to use full zoom, to minimize DOF. Your method is basically using the minimum focusing distance for that particular focal length. If it works for you, then keep doing it. But know that you are making it harder than necessary.
--
Mike
http://www.pbase.com/mike_curtis

I'm not resourceful enough to insert a witty quip or intelligent quote here....

are you old timers professionals?

I was never speaking to its difficulty... i just came across it while experimenting and found it could achieve wonders at times... i do believe it is producing a better result then just setting it to f2.8... from what you said i think what i am doing is locking a macro mode (focus) DOF and instead of moving forward and backward i am adjusting the zoom for the same effect...

Mike from Canada

Alan J said:

My hang up with my FZ-15 so far is getting good depth of field
where the foreground is in focus and as you get further away it is
blury.

Click to expand...

There are four factors in the calculation of DOF: the maximum permissible size of circle of confusion (CoC), focal length, aperture, and focusing distance. The relationships are

(1) longer local length --> shallower DOF
(2) shorter focusing distance --> shallower DOF
(3) larger aperture (i.e., smaller f-number) --> shallower DOF
(4) larger CoC --> shallower DOF

Of these four factors, the fourth one is fixed when the camera is built. Therefore, to yield shallower DOF, we could use longer focal length, shorter focusing distance, and larger aperture. To increase focal length, one can add a teleconverter. To get shorter focusing distance, one can get to the subject closer. To get closer, if your subject is not a large one, we can add a close-up lens. However, adding a close-up lens has a significant drawback: one cannot focus at longer distance to infinity. It is very rare for a camera lens to preserve longer focusing distance, and, consequently, adding a close-up lens is in general not suitable for larger subjects such as portrait.

The fourth factor dictates the large DOF on virtually all consumer digicams. Consumer digicams have smaller to very small sensors, and the small the sensor is, the smaller CoC is. Therefore, smaller sensor implies smaller small CoC, which, in turns, implies larger DOF.

See the "Depth of Field" page of my Coolpix 4500 user guide for more technical details.

Alan J said:

ps it is me not the camera

Click to expand...

Thus, it is really the camera you use not you. Sometime we have to realize this fact.

CK
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam
Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500/5700 and Panasonic FZ-10 User Guides

DSLR's do this better, but it's not impossible with the FZ's. As someone else mentioned using full zoom helps, macro lenses, and putting the background further away from your subject helps, too.





--
Jan in CA - Panasonic FZ10

http://purrcat-jan.smugmug.com/Photography

I've really enjoyed this discussion and learned a lot, thanks, but what I really wanted to say was that I loved the images you all showed - Jan, I thought your second image was stunning, and I loved John's rose rose too.

Plus the DOF on the second model image. Mike, is what I'd like to be able to achieve. What are the details on the +1 diopter?

John

With regards to the models i didn't use a diopter but as for a standard diopter i usually describe them as a glorified magnifying glass... i use 3 cheap tiffen diopter lenses (+1, +2, +4) the +1 can allow you to focus on a subject approx 2 to 3 feet away at 12x zoom...

Mike from Canada

johners said:

I've really enjoyed this discussion and learned a lot, thanks, but
what I really wanted to say was that I loved the images you all
showed - Jan, I thought your second image was stunning, and I
loved John's rose rose too.
Plus the DOF on the second model image. Mike, is what I'd like to
be able to achieve. What are the details on the +1 diopter?

John

Click to expand...