The *ist DS review has been posted

That the low AF speed everyone has been complaining about wasn't mentioned.

It also really states Pentax's philosophy, a camera is simple to use and get started with but if you want to go further the controls are there.

Pity about the image processor, I hope it is fixed for any upgrades, specially the D upgrade when it comes along. Good JPG should be able to be produced from in camera. The quality is there in the raw so the camera should be able to use it.

It would surprise me if the processor is that significantly inferior to the D. My theory is that Pentax over-reacted to criticism of lack of saturation in the D jpegs. This is particularly unfortunate because of the Sony sensor's greatest shortcoming -- loss of detail at high saturation settings (especially red).

As a D user, I can't confirm the theory from experience. But it is the same sensor, after all. If I was a DS user, I would be a little put off by Phil's assertion that most DS users will be novices not interested in RAW. I suspect that most DS users are just like me -- experienced longtime SLR users who were waiting for a dSLR that could use existing, quality Pentax glass. The DS buyer waited for a better price, or couldn't afford the D in the first place.

In any event, all you DS users -- I hope those of you who depend exclusively on jpegs are feeling pushed into using RAW. No matter how good the in-camera conversion (or bad in the case of the DS), the difference is like night and day when you make the RAW transition for two key reasons: 1) significantly greater exposure latitude (and accompanying forgiveness for minor exposure errors); and 2) the ability to precisely correct white balance (especially with quality software such C1).

JNR

C1 doesn't yet support the DS does it???

------------
Joel - *ist DS/P30n/ME

Agreed. Phil did his usual good job with the review, and I agree with most of his points. The *ist DS is definately a photographic tool that's a all-round solid performer. However, could a firmware update address some of the JPEG processing issues? I wondering if that's actually possible...

Anyways, by reading the review, I realized a couple of things:

First, I think I wasted a bit of money buying a Sandisk Extreme III card. It looks like the *ist DS didn't take advantage of the extra speed. Isn't the Lexar 'high-speed' line cheaper than the Extreme IIIs?

Second, I should fork over some money and get myself Photoshop Elements 3. It's RAW processing capabilities seem very nice.

mpixel said:

I really like that you go the extra mile to see what can be done to
get the best image quality out of the camera, even testing it with
third party software like ACR (this was especially important for
the S3 review).

The images posted in the gallery look pretty good, which is great
because it seems that a lot of people have only been looking at the
ones on Steve's site.

The kit lens doesn't look too bad either.

Thanks again

mpixel said:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/05033106istdsreview.asp

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ah, there's the rub. Pentax Lab has made great strides with the recent upgrade. C1 is notoriously slow in moving forward with their updates, but you should see it soon (next major update scheduled for April -- which probably means May). Nothing wrong with Elements 3 and the RAW plug-in, as well.

JNR

My only problem with the raw plugin for CS is the time involved, correct me if I am wrong but there is no way to batch process a whole group of files... But if I have 20 similar photos (same area/lighting etc) I would prefer to batch process the group, rather than one at a time.... This is the only thing that really stops me using RAW full time, that and needing extra storage...

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Joel - *ist DS/P30n/ME

As always a good review by Phil. Looks like I need to upgrade my computer so I can do RAW.

Steinmueller (very reputable) puts Bibble 4.1 right up there with C1. I have C1LE ($99) - limits batch to 20 images at a time (not much of a problem for my workflow). Not sure how the Bibble version are set up, but the Lite version is $69, Pro $129. Probably worth a trial. Lite supports Elements 2 as a plug in (I have Elements on a disk, but never bothered to install -- pretty much stick with Picture Window Pro due to full 16-bit support and feature set.)

Hope this helps.

JNR

Get this book

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/032127878X/qid=1112330731/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/104-8100885-7896764?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

you certainly can do RAW batch conversions in CS. This book really opened my eyes up to the power of CS RAW.

Joele said:

My only problem with the raw plugin for CS is the time involved,
correct me if I am wrong but there is no way to batch process a
whole group of files... But if I have 20 similar photos (same
area/lighting etc) I would prefer to batch process the group,
rather than one at a time.... This is the only thing that really
stops me using RAW full time, that and needing extra storage...

------------
Joel - *ist DS/P30n/ME

Click to expand...

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

Douglas Film said:

As always a good review by Phil. Looks like I need to upgrade my
computer so I can do RAW.

Click to expand...

The upgrade is continual !
It is an inconvenience of the data processing.

I suppose, after the publication so asked, that a big number of owners of DS must be disappointed by Phil Askey's article.

The only permanent positive point is in the quality of the optics.

--
itev

*istD

You can batch process RAW file in CS using Dr Browns image processor plug-in (free). You just tag the files in the browser and specify what you want the processor to do, it has several settings. Then click and go and have a cup of tea! - My kind of workflow!

Dead easy.

Rgds
--
Richard Day - 'Carpe Diem!'
Gloucester UK

And it will process many times faster then the pentax software, and a couple of times faster then ACR.

It also won't produce the artifacts that were shown on phils resolution chart.

You can download a free fully functional trial on our website at :

http://www.bibblelabs.com

Eric

Thanks, I will be trying out bibble and rawshooter over the weekend...

------------
Joel - *ist DS/P30n/ME

I thought the review was quite positive, the biggest nit he had with the DS was jpg quality, I always shoot RAW, and frankly, I just don't understand why anybody would not. RAW gives you ultimate final input; it is the digital negative.

itev said:

The upgrade is continual !
It is an inconvenience of the data processing.

I suppose, after the publication so asked, that a big number of
owners of DS must be disappointed by Phil Askey's article.

The only permanent positive point is in the quality of the optics.

--
itev

*istD

Click to expand...

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

snow4ever said:

itev said:

The upgrade is continual !
It is an inconvenience of the data processing.

I suppose, after the publication so asked, that a big number of
owners of DS must be disappointed by Phil Askey's article.

The only permanent positive point is in the quality of the optics.

--
itev

*istD

Click to expand...

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

Click to expand...

Agree!

It took me between 50-100 jpegs before I changed to RAW only shooting but I'm a slow learner.

bazz.

snow4ever said:

itev said:

The upgrade is continual !
It is an inconvenience of the data processing.

I suppose, after the publication so asked, that a big number of
owners of DS must be disappointed by Phil Askey's article.

The only permanent positive point is in the quality of the optics.

--
itev

*istD

Click to expand...

--
Kristian Farren
http://kf3.net/gallery/

Click to expand...

I visited your gallery, I like very much your photos.

--
itev

*istD

Hi!

tycfung said:

However, could a firmware
update address some of the JPEG processing issues? I wondering if
that's actually possible...

Click to expand...

I think it would be. Limited due to processor speed, it might make the camera a bit slower, if more complicated algorithms need to be done. However (I am guessing here) I would not expect such an update, I never saw similar stuff addressed in normal firmware updates (but I haven't looked too closely - anyone with more insight?). But still, it would be possible, I am sure.

tycfung said:

First, I think I wasted a bit of money buying a Sandisk Extreme III
card.

Click to expand...

Well, maybe now, but you might be very happy once you buy your next camera. Cameras are getting faster. Ok, cards are getting cheaper...
Oh, and if you use a fast card reader, you already have an advantage today!

CU
Jens

sir_bazz said:

It took me between 50-100 jpegs before I changed to RAW only
shooting but I'm a slow learner.

bazz.

Click to expand...

I always was accustomed to improving the photos jpeg this is why I do not have difficulty in use RAW. But I can think that some would like to exempt this exercise.

--
itev

*istD

As it appears, Phil used default settings ("bright") for all the jpegs comparison (ISO, sharpening...) shots. it's perfectly normal as "target" audience will probably use the camera with those defaults settings, at least at the begining (I believe they'll eventually either go back to a P&S if they don't get the photo bug or use RAW if they do).

However, I was wondering if most part of the loss of quality in jpeg couldn't be attributed to this "bright" mode. I'm really not very fond of it: it gives overprocessed pics with grain even at ISO 200.

When shooting jpegs, I usually use the "normal" mode with -1 in contrast and saturation and -2 in sharpness and get very 'natural' results with no grain at ISO 200.

I then sharpen it for output in CS and the results look good.

I guess I'll try to compare outputs from both methods just for the fun of it as I'm convinced that neither of them can match RAW processing.

Excellent review I think: "fair and balanced" (from where did I get this expression?...)

Try RawShooter Essential, it's free and I find it very capable and easy to use.