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Your opinion - Future of Memory Sticks compared to SD cards

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zxcvar

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Hi! I may be wrong but it seems that SD memory cards will replace all other memory cards in future. It seems all the new Nikon and Canon cameras are using SD cards instead of CF cards. [I use one camera which uses SD cards. I also have a Sony camera which uses Infolithium Memory Stick Pro cards.] The prices SD cards are cheaper than Memory Stick Pro cards. How long people are going to pay extra prices for Memory Stick pro cards? Moreover if one uses SD cards, one can switch between different cameras without loosing the money invested in memory cards. My 2cents. With thanks.
 
Sony seems to be the only manufacturer that still uses this format, and it appears to be a good little profit center for them. I doubt they're going to change anytime soon. Besides, Sony cameras are reasonably popular and people aren't complaining (too much) about Memory sticks, so I'd imagine they'll be here for a while.
 
zxcvar said:
Hi! I may be wrong but it seems that SD memory cards will replace
all other memory cards in future. It seems all the new Nikon and
Canon cameras are using SD cards instead of CF cards. [I use one
camera which uses SD cards. I also have a Sony camera which uses
Infolithium Memory Stick Pro cards.] The prices SD cards are
cheaper than Memory Stick Pro cards. How long people are going to
pay extra prices for Memory Stick pro cards? Moreover if one uses
SD cards, one can switch between different cameras without loosing
the money invested in memory cards. My 2cents. With thanks.
Click to expand...
Yeah, memory stick cards are going to go away, if for no other reason than because nobody other than Sony's got much buy-in.

It's mostly indiciative of the problems with Sony, I'd say.

SD isn't the end of the road. The SD-ish form factor may still have some legs, but eventually we'll be using some card that's shaped like an SD card but much faster and higher capacity and such.

On the other hand, switching between different cameras without loosing the money invested in memory cards is less of an issue than you think. Given that memory cards are taking full advantage of transistor densities, you won't think about it. You'll have a few 128 or 256 meg memory stick cards and then, all of the sudden, buy a 2 gig SD stick for a reasonable amount of money and completely ignore the 2 gigs of memory in memory sticks that you have already. We're only starting to approach the point where you can buy something and have it wear out before being made completely obselete.
 
Memory stick is one indication of sony's inflated self image. One reason I avoid their products.

My opinion: I can only HOPE they go away as sony's market share diminishes and they finally figure out MS is part of the reason, but they still make lots of money off the people sucked into the sony reputation. When that is gone, they will start to switch.

I read a prediction on one of the photo sites a while ago that MS would dissappear, but that may take a while.
zxcvar said:
Hi! I may be wrong but it seems that SD memory cards will replace
all other memory cards in future. It seems all the new Nikon and
Canon cameras are using SD cards instead of CF cards. [I use one
camera which uses SD cards. I also have a Sony camera which uses
Infolithium Memory Stick Pro cards.] The prices SD cards are
cheaper than Memory Stick Pro cards. How long people are going to
pay extra prices for Memory Stick pro cards? Moreover if one uses
SD cards, one can switch between different cameras without loosing
the money invested in memory cards. My 2cents. With thanks.
Click to expand...
--
MjN
 
tinrobot said:
Sony seems to be the only manufacturer that still uses this format,
and it appears to be a good little profit center for them. I
doubt they're going to change anytime soon. Besides, Sony cameras
are reasonably popular and people aren't complaining (too much)
about Memory sticks, so I'd imagine they'll be here for a while.
Click to expand...
Sony has ALWAYS been the only one to use this format. They invented it, because they can't be bothered to use a format others are using. Same thing with Minidisks, and same thing with many other formats in history.

--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
 
wirehead said:
SD isn't the end of the road. The SD-ish form factor may still
have some legs, but eventually we'll be using some card that's
shaped like an SD card but much faster and higher capacity and such.
Click to expand...
Maybe. Who knows? Olympus tried that with the xD, but since they forgot to respect the SD form factor, it's not popular
wirehead said:
On the other hand, switching between different cameras without
loosing the money invested in memory cards is less of an issue than
you think. Given that memory cards are taking full advantage of
transistor densities, you won't think about it. You'll have a few
128 or 256 meg memory stick cards and then, all of the sudden, buy
a 2 gig SD stick for a reasonable amount of money and completely
ignore the 2 gigs of memory in memory sticks that you have already.
We're only starting to approach the point where you can buy
something and have it wear out before being made completely
obselete.
Click to expand...
I think it,s an important thing to have a standard format, since even though memory is cheaper than it was, it's still expensive. At least in Canada it is.

--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
 
Microsoft puts out just as many proprietary formats as Sony does, if not more so.

Back to Sony though, they've got a long list of losers in the consumer sector.

Betamax-respected in professional work, not consumer.
Minidisc-not a bad format, just not licensed to any other significant players
Memorystick-probably will lose
UMD-this will die too
ATRAC compression-will die

Problem with Sony that doesn't exist with Microsoft is that they don't have customer lockin with consumer electronics like you do with Operating Systems. Sony can't realistically lock you into these formats without considerable help from both the people producing content on the media, and other vendors of consumer electronics. Help they rarely get, due to not licensing, or wanting exhorbitant licensing fees.

Consumer electronics arm of sony has been bleeding for years while being propped up by their videogame stuff. They let their brand loyalty/recognition for their monitors, televisions, and midfi audio erode a long time ago imho.

Kind of a shame, some of the stuff they came up with was very nice tech, but by keeping it propietary in markets they didn't dominate prevented it from really catching on.
Mark N said:
Memory stick is one indication of sony's inflated self image. One
reason I avoid their products.
My opinion: I can only HOPE they go away as sony's market share
diminishes and they finally figure out MS is part of the reason,
but they still make lots of money off the people sucked into the
sony reputation. When that is gone, they will start to switch.

I read a prediction on one of the photo sites a while ago that MS
would dissappear, but that may take a while.
Click to expand...
 
But not with digital cameras.

Their recent portable gaming device, PSP, makes use of the small Duo version of the Memory Stick. Also, they've shown interest in pushing this memory format on the Playstation gaming console (one version of the PS2 released in Japan has an MS slot). Lots of rumors that the PS3 will use Memory Sticks. Considering that the video game industry is much bigger than the digital camera industry that's saying a lot.

As far as SD cards replacing CF - not likely. The Nikon and Canon cameras that use SD are only the lower end consumer models. SD capacity and speed falls far behind CF (physical size alone will always make it lag beind in capacity). That elminates SD from serious consideration as primary storage for Pro equipment.
zxcvar said:
Hi! I may be wrong but it seems that SD memory cards will replace
all other memory cards in future. It seems all the new Nikon and
Canon cameras are using SD cards instead of CF cards. [I use one
camera which uses SD cards. I also have a Sony camera which uses
Infolithium Memory Stick Pro cards.] The prices SD cards are
cheaper than Memory Stick Pro cards. How long people are going to
pay extra prices for Memory Stick pro cards? Moreover if one uses
SD cards, one can switch between different cameras without loosing
the money invested in memory cards. My 2cents. With thanks.
Click to expand...
--
Joe
 
Pyogenes said:
But not with digital cameras.

Their recent portable gaming device, PSP, makes use of the small
Duo version of the Memory Stick. Also, they've shown interest in
pushing this memory format on the Playstation gaming console (one
version of the PS2 released in Japan has an MS slot). Lots of
rumors that the PS3 will use Memory Sticks. Considering that the
video game industry is much bigger than the digital camera industry
that's saying a lot.
Click to expand...
It will still be limited to the gaming world, and I'm not so sure it's bigger than the photography world. Add the cell phones industry, and the PDA industry, and suddenly the gamers seem to be pretty alone. And there are other machines in that world too : Xbox, Nintendo, etc. So again, Sony are using a proprietary format in a fastly expanding market.
Pyogenes said:
As far as SD cards replacing CF - not likely. The Nikon and Canon
cameras that use SD are only the lower end consumer models. SD
capacity and speed falls far behind CF (physical size alone will
always make it lag beind in capacity). That elminates SD from
serious consideration as primary storage for Pro equipment.
Click to expand...
SD are much faster than most CF, and don't use power from the camera to work (or I should say, use much less power). And as capacity is concerned, SD are becoming almost as "big" as CF (except for the microdrives)

I think what's happening in the proumer market is a good example. Many new cameras have two slots (Sony even made a MS and a CF slot... thy know they can't win with their MS) and some other cameras have had a CF and SD slot. On the consumer market, where huge size aren,t necessary (1 GB is enough) SD will come to dominate completely. Pros often have many CF cards already, and don't want to part with them.
Pyogenes said:
zxcvar said:
Hi! I may be wrong but it seems that SD memory cards will replace
all other memory cards in future. It seems all the new Nikon and
Canon cameras are using SD cards instead of CF cards. [I use one
camera which uses SD cards. I also have a Sony camera which uses
Infolithium Memory Stick Pro cards.] The prices SD cards are
cheaper than Memory Stick Pro cards. How long people are going to
pay extra prices for Memory Stick pro cards? Moreover if one uses
SD cards, one can switch between different cameras without loosing
the money invested in memory cards. My 2cents. With thanks.
Click to expand...
--
Joe
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
 
Pyogenes said:
As far as SD cards replacing CF - not likely. The Nikon and Canon
cameras that use SD are only the lower end consumer models. SD
capacity and speed falls far behind CF (physical size alone will
always make it lag beind in capacity). That elminates SD from
serious consideration as primary storage for Pro equipment.
Click to expand...
Personally, I like the Memory Stick form factor. It's like SD but with a longer tail. Easier to hold on to, but not too big. SD's are too easy to drop.

CF is ugly in many ways (too big, pins susceptable to damage, card can be physically inserted sideways). The one nice thing about CF is that it is basically a shrunken PCMCIA card, electrically it is identical. So if you have a laptop with a PCMCIA slot (and all laptops do), then a CompactFlash adapter is trivial -- it is just a hollowed out PCMCIA card with CF socket, with each pin on the CF socket connecting to a pin on the PCMCIA card. This was a huge thing in the mid '90s when CF first came out, because there was no other easy and fast method to hook up a card reader.

However, Memory Stick isn't going to win. Neither is CF. SD seems like a sure thing.

High end SLRs are starting to use SD, including the Canon 1D mk2 and 1Ds mk2, Kodak SLR/c and SLR/n. And any CF camera can use SD with an adapter. SD speed is not a problem, see http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-7344 and http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-7345 for evidence of that. SD capacity is catching up to CF, too -- 2GB is available. If physical size is everything, then why is 3 1/2" the current standard for hard drives, even in big fast servers. 5 1/4" hard drives are gone, 8" is long gone.
 
bdery said:
Pyogenes said:
But not with digital cameras.

Their recent portable gaming device, PSP, makes use of the small
Duo version of the Memory Stick. Also, they've shown interest in
pushing this memory format on the Playstation gaming console (one
version of the PS2 released in Japan has an MS slot). Lots of
rumors that the PS3 will use Memory Sticks. Considering that the
video game industry is much bigger than the digital camera industry
that's saying a lot.
Click to expand...
It will still be limited to the gaming world, and I'm not so sure
it's bigger than the photography world. Add the cell phones
industry, and the PDA industry, and suddenly the gamers seem to be
pretty alone. And there are other machines in that world too :
Xbox, Nintendo, etc. So again, Sony are using a proprietary format
in a fastly expanding market.
Click to expand...
PDA's are a niche market now (sales are dropping by double digit percentages each year). In other words, unimprtant for the flash memory market.

A few cell phone manufactueres use Memory Sticks. Sony Ericson of course, as well as Samsung, Mitsubishi, and NEC. Not big players in North America, but they are in Asia where the cell phone market is stronger.

As far as the video game industry, Sony dominates by a long shot. If they were to use Memory Sticks for all of their future devices it would be the LEAST proprietary memory format used by the major players.
bdery said:
bdery said:
As far as SD cards replacing CF - not likely. The Nikon and Canon
cameras that use SD are only the lower end consumer models. SD
capacity and speed falls far behind CF (physical size alone will
always make it lag beind in capacity). That elminates SD from
serious consideration as primary storage for Pro equipment.
Click to expand...
SD are much faster than most CF, and don't use power from the
camera to work (or I should say, use much less power). And as
capacity is concerned, SD are becoming almost as "big" as CF
(except for the microdrives)
Click to expand...
SD faster? Hardly. Fastest SD available is the Extreme III from SanDisk which is the same speed as the fastest CF. I didn't know the Extreme III SD was out when I said CF was faster, so I stand corrected on that count - they are the same speed.

CF will always have a capacity advantage over SD. It's just a matter of physical size. Given the same memory density, larger volume means larger capacity. Take a look at what is available today - largest SD cards are what? 1GB? Meanwhile you can buy non-microdrive 4GB CF cards (or Memory Sticks for that matter).
bdery said:
I think what's happening in the proumer market is a good example.
Many new cameras have two slots (Sony even made a MS and a CF
slot... thy know they can't win with their MS) and some other
cameras have had a CF and SD slot. On the consumer market, where
huge size aren,t necessary (1 GB is enough) SD will come to
dominate completely. Pros often have many CF cards already, and
don't want to part with them.
Click to expand...
You'll also notice Sony only uses CF on their high end cameras. The basic consumer models still make up the vast majority of their sales. Seeing as how they are a top 2 manufacturer of digital cameras every year, I don't think the format is really losing.

I do agree that SD fits nicely in the consumer market. Nice small size allows for more compact cameras, and it meets the needs for casual photographers. Pros and serious amateurs still will want the much higher capactiy of other formats.

Now what does this all mean? There's a niche market for the various formats.

Sony is likely to dominate the video game market since they currently have the only format that is used outside of gaming. (of course this might change if Nintendo or Microsoft adopt CF, SD, etc.)
SD is likely to gain dominance over consumer goods where size is important.
CF is king where capacity is necessary.

I leave you with one last bit of trivia to help digest all that:
SanDisk developed the following memory formats:
Memory Stick Pro - in conjunction with Sony of course
Compact Flash (CF) - by themselves
Secure Digital (SD) - in conjunction with Toshiba and Matsushita (Panasonic)

The so-called competition doesn't really exist. Each format exists to fill a specific need.

--
Joe
 
nickleback said:
However, Memory Stick isn't going to win. Neither is CF. SD seems
like a sure thing.
Click to expand...
See the last portion of my post above. There really isn't any competition - it's just consumer perceived. All three formats are designed by SanDisk who has stated the formats are not meant to replace each other but rather compliment.
nickleback said:
High end SLRs are starting to use SD, including the Canon 1D mk2
and 1Ds mk2, Kodak SLR/c and SLR/n.
Click to expand...
Good point.
nickleback said:
And any CF camera can use SD
with an adapter.
Click to expand...
I have yet to see an adapter (other than CF to PCMCIA) that didn't slow down transfer speeds.
nickleback said:
SD speed is not a problem, see
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-7344 and
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-7345 for
evidence of that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was mistaken about speed. I didn't realize the faster cards already came out.
nickleback said:
SD capacity is catching up to CF, too -- 2GB is
available.
Click to expand...
Out of curiousity, where are you finding 2GB SD cards? I've only seen 1GB. However, I wouldn't really call 2GB catching up - 8GB is just around the corner for CF. SD capcity seems to be staying at 25%-50% of CF capacity (again, physical size advantage).
nickleback said:
If physical size is everything, then why is 3 1/2" the
current standard for hard drives, even in big fast servers. 5 1/4"
hard drives are gone, 8" is long gone.
Click to expand...
Comparing solid state media to moving parts is not a fair comparison. Larger format harddrives required far more power to keep the disks spinning and were also more prone to failure. 3 1/2" was a compromise of capacity, speed, efficiency, and reliablility.

--
Joe
 
Pyogenes said:
SD faster? Hardly. Fastest SD available is the Extreme III from
SanDisk which is the same speed as the fastest CF. I didn't know
the Extreme III SD was out when I said CF was faster, so I stand
corrected on that count - they are the same speed.
Click to expand...
Extreme cards are about the same speed, but the standard SD is fastr than the standard CF.
Pyogenes said:
CF will always have a capacity advantage over SD. It's just a
matter of physical size. Given the same memory density, larger
volume means larger capacity. Take a look at what is available
today - largest SD cards are what? 1GB? Meanwhile you can buy
non-microdrive 4GB CF cards (or Memory Sticks for that matter).
Click to expand...
I agree that size relates directly with capacity, except for one thing. A CF card needs a controller, while a SD does not. So SD has some advantage on that regard.
Pyogenes said:
Now what does this all mean? There's a niche market for the
various formats.
Sony is likely to dominate the video game market since they
currently have the only format that is used outside of gaming. (of
course this might change if Nintendo or Microsoft adopt CF, SD,
etc.)
SD is likely to gain dominance over consumer goods where size is
important.
CF is king where capacity is necessary.
Click to expand...
I agree that there's a dual market for CF and one other player, but not three. And SD has the general favor because of all the qualities you mentionned. MS has no advantage over SD (except for capacity, but that's changing... there are 2 GB SD) and MS is more expensive.

--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
 
SanDisk doesn't just manufacture them - they DESIGNED them. They share ownership of the patents. They have stake in the success of the format.

Again, Sony is not the only company to use MS. Konica Minolta does for cameras as does Samsung. NEC, Samsung and Mitsubishi use them in camera phones. Just because you don't see these products in the US doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't important.
bdery said:
Pyogenes said:
bdery said:
Pyogenes said:
bdery said:
Sony has ALWAYS been the only one to use this format.
Click to expand...
--
Joe
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
Click to expand...
--
Joe
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
Click to expand...
--
Joe
 
bdery said:
bdery said:
SD faster? Hardly. Fastest SD available is the Extreme III from
SanDisk which is the same speed as the fastest CF. I didn't know
the Extreme III SD was out when I said CF was faster, so I stand
corrected on that count - they are the same speed.
Click to expand...
Extreme cards are about the same speed, but the standard SD is
fastr than the standard CF.
Click to expand...
Oh, come on now. Comparing the slowest cards to determine which is faster is silly. If someone is concerned with speed they aren't going to buy a standard card.
bdery said:
bdery said:
CF will always have a capacity advantage over SD. It's just a
matter of physical size. Given the same memory density, larger
volume means larger capacity. Take a look at what is available
today - largest SD cards are what? 1GB? Meanwhile you can buy
non-microdrive 4GB CF cards (or Memory Sticks for that matter).
Click to expand...
I agree that size relates directly with capacity, except for one
thing. A CF card needs a controller, while a SD does not. So SD has
some advantage on that regard.
bdery said:
Now what does this all mean? There's a niche market for the
various formats.
Sony is likely to dominate the video game market since they
currently have the only format that is used outside of gaming. (of
course this might change if Nintendo or Microsoft adopt CF, SD,
etc.)
SD is likely to gain dominance over consumer goods where size is
important.
CF is king where capacity is necessary.
Click to expand...
I agree that there's a dual market for CF and one other player, but
not three. And SD has the general favor because of all the
qualities you mentionned. MS has no advantage over SD (except for
capacity, but that's changing... there are 2 GB SD) and MS is more
expensive.
Click to expand...
No advantage? That was the entire point of bringing up the video game industry. Neither CF nor SD has a strong presence, but MS is already growing. Did you know there's a huge supply shortage of MS Pro Duo right now due to the recent release of the PSP? Only places you can find them right now are horribly overpriced.

Other advantage? Sony's digital camera marketshare. As long as they are one of the top players, there is no reason to ever drop the format.

--
Joe
 
Pyogenes said:
No advantage? That was the entire point of bringing up the video
game industry. Neither CF nor SD has a strong presence, but MS is
already growing. Did you know there's a huge supply shortage of MS
Pro Duo right now due to the recent release of the PSP? Only
places you can find them right now are horribly overpriced.

Other advantage? Sony's digital camera marketshare. As long as
they are one of the top players, there is no reason to ever drop
the format.
Click to expand...
I meant no advantage for the actual format. Put them all on a table, compare them, and you'll understand what I mean. MS does nothing the SD can't do, and it's overpriced.

Just because the PSP is popular doesn't mean the MS is a bette format. Sony cold have used any other format to do the same thing, but they can't cope with the fact that someone else developped a product they want to use, so they just develop an equivalent and sell it at higher prices.

If MS was soooo good, most companies would have adopted it by now.
Pyogenes said:
--
Joe
Click to expand...
--
bdery

Québec city, Canada
Cool,pix S Q
 
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