Help needed with 20D creative mode.

Only had one response on the 20D Forum, so I thought I might as well post here as well:
I previously posted about problems with severe over exposure while set on P.

I was caught a little by my lack of understanding of some control features on the camera but I have since gone over the manual as closely as I can.

The problem was that on a bright and sunny day, in Full Auto mode, the flash kept popping up, while trying to photograph outdoors, on a long distance swimming event.

So,I changed the setting to P, as was my habit on my EOS film bodies. Result was that everything was then severely over exposed.

I have checked the settings since, shooting a fixed subject in day time, and find that in full auto, if the flash decides not to pop up, (which is rare, even on a bright sunny day) the settings might be 1/250 at f/11.

Change to P and the settings are invariably vastly different - say 1/40 at f/5.6. The Full Auto result is ok The P result is severely washed out.
What is going on?

And why is the flash popping up, even in full sunshine that is coming from behind?
Why is there such a difference in the two auto programme modes?

Looking at the photo information after the ISO reading varies from 100-400. Does the ISO change in Auto mode too?
Is this 20D a dud, or is it me?
Can anyone assist?
Will B

Act

will baillieu said:

Only had one response on the 20D Forum, so I thought I might as
well post here as well:
I previously posted about problems with severe over exposure while
set on P.
I was caught a little by my lack of understanding of some control
features on the camera but I have since gone over the manual as
closely as I can.
The problem was that on a bright and sunny day, in Full Auto mode,
the flash kept popping up, while trying to photograph outdoors, on
a long distance swimming event.

Click to expand...

you were probably facing the sun. try to get the sun behind you if possible.

will baillieu said:

So,I changed the setting to P, as was my habit on my EOS film
bodies. Result was that everything was then severely over exposed.

Click to expand...

again probably your lighting was bad..in those case you have 2 options..either change your position or use a fill in flash.

will baillieu said:

I have checked the settings since, shooting a fixed subject in day
time, and find that in full auto, if the flash decides not to pop
up, (which is rare, even on a bright sunny day) the settings might
be 1/250 at f/11.
Change to P and the settings are invariably vastly different - say
1/40 at f/5.6. The Full Auto result is ok The P result is severely
washed out.

Click to expand...

P is auto mode as well.. I don't use that ever. I use AV or TV and in difficult lighting condition like you had..I use M mode.

will baillieu said:

What is going on?
And why is the flash popping up, even in full sunshine that is
coming from behind?

Click to expand...

really? that's wierd. I woudl expect that to happen only in backlit subject.

will baillieu said:

Why is there such a difference in the two auto programme modes?

Click to expand...

no clue. I never use either and I don't recommand using it.

will baillieu said:

Looking at the photo information after the ISO reading varies from
100-400. Does the ISO change in Auto mode too?
Is this 20D a dud, or is it me?
Can anyone assist?
Will B

Act

Click to expand...

--



Please do not start new thread for private message to me but send them to me via email instead! thanks.

I'll try and help with my (limited) experiance. In auto mode the camera sets everything how it thinks will get you a good picture; in creative modes it only sets the aperture and/or shutter speed.

The important thing here is that other options such as ISO and exposure compensation are not changed and will be set however you left them. If you are not very familiar with changing these options it is quite easy to press a button and dial up a setting without being aware of what is really happening, especially exposure comp. when the power dial is in the top position.

If you want a full answer for why your pics were over exposed post the full exif data here and I'm sure the problem will stand out.

will baillieu said:

Only had one response on the 20D Forum, so I thought I might as
well post here as well:
I previously posted about problems with severe over exposure while
set on P.
I was caught a little by my lack of understanding of some control
features on the camera but I have since gone over the manual as
closely as I can.
The problem was that on a bright and sunny day, in Full Auto mode,
the flash kept popping up, while trying to photograph outdoors, on
a long distance swimming event.
So,I changed the setting to P, as was my habit on my EOS film
bodies. Result was that everything was then severely over exposed.
I have checked the settings since, shooting a fixed subject in day
time, and find that in full auto, if the flash decides not to pop
up, (which is rare, even on a bright sunny day) the settings might
be 1/250 at f/11.
Change to P and the settings are invariably vastly different - say
1/40 at f/5.6. The Full Auto result is ok The P result is severely
washed out.
What is going on?
And why is the flash popping up, even in full sunshine that is
coming from behind?
Why is there such a difference in the two auto programme modes?
Looking at the photo information after the ISO reading varies from
100-400. Does the ISO change in Auto mode too?
Is this 20D a dud, or is it me?
Can anyone assist?
Will B

Act

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback.
I am going to run some side by side tests with another camera today.
I'll see what exactly is happening.
I suspect that mine is a dud camera, sadly.

I have 15 years experience with EOS Canons. I use the controls instinctively, and this is the first time anything like this has happened.

I often use Full Auto for "one handed" shooting in difficult situations. Results have been outstanding.
I use the "P" mode to avoid unwanted auto flash.

What puzzles me is the vastly different settings selected by the camera in Full Auto compared to P. They should be the same.
Thanks,
Will B

What works for me:

I have really come to like shooting sports in M (manual) mode. Make sure the on/off switch is flipped up all the way to the second position (has a sort of check mark) as this will allow you to adjust both the aperture and shutter speed. Also change to AI Servo, center-point focus and multi-exposure mode.

Don't be afraid to click off a few frames at a time. You have to keep checking your settings , but it keeps you in tune with your shooting. Look at the histogram too and see if you are too far to one side or another. Pretty soon you get used to checking and adjusting while looking through the viewfinder. Sometimes you may find that shots come out better when you are consistently one or two marks off center.

You might also experiment with center-weight averaging. Sometimes this helps when I get consistent over-exposures.

will baillieu said:

Only had one response on the 20D Forum, so I thought I might as
well post here as well:
I previously posted about problems with severe over exposure while
set on P.
I was caught a little by my lack of understanding of some control
features on the camera but I have since gone over the manual as
closely as I can.
The problem was that on a bright and sunny day, in Full Auto mode,
the flash kept popping up, while trying to photograph outdoors, on
a long distance swimming event.
So,I changed the setting to P, as was my habit on my EOS film
bodies. Result was that everything was then severely over exposed.
I have checked the settings since, shooting a fixed subject in day
time, and find that in full auto, if the flash decides not to pop
up, (which is rare, even on a bright sunny day) the settings might
be 1/250 at f/11.
Change to P and the settings are invariably vastly different - say
1/40 at f/5.6. The Full Auto result is ok The P result is severely
washed out.
What is going on?
And why is the flash popping up, even in full sunshine that is
coming from behind?
Why is there such a difference in the two auto programme modes?
Looking at the photo information after the ISO reading varies from
100-400. Does the ISO change in Auto mode too?
Is this 20D a dud, or is it me?
Can anyone assist?
Will B

Act

Click to expand...

I agree with arbuthnot.

Acknowledging that you have 15 years experience with EOS cameras, there are some subtle differences in the controls of the 20D compared to previous models, including the 3-position switch (all off/on QCD off/QCD on) for activating the Quick Control Dial v. the prior 2-position (on/off), and the method for selecting the metering mode.

There is a significant difference between the functioning of the film and digital SLRs with respect to ISO. In film cameras it is set to a single, unchanging value regardless of the exposure mode. Whether set automatically with the film can DX code, or dialed in manually, it will not change with lighting conditions or shooting mode.

In the digital cameras the green box and other full automodes will automatically vary the ISO setting based on the lighting conditions. It will vary from 100 to 400 and you can't directly check what the camera is setting (press ISO and it'll just display "AUTO"). When you switch to the creative modes (P, Tv, Av, M) the ISO will change to whatever the user has previously set.

Double check that Partial or Centerweighted metering has not been set in the Creative modes. Check the exposure scale when switching from green box to P. If exposure compensation has been set inadvertently, it will point to "0" in green box, but to a + (or -) value when switched to P.

will baillieu said:

Thanks for the feedback.
I am going to run some side by side tests with another camera today.
I'll see what exactly is happening.
I suspect that mine is a dud camera, sadly.
I have 15 years experience with EOS Canons. I use the controls
instinctively, and this is the first time anything like this has
happened.
I often use Full Auto for "one handed" shooting in difficult
situations. Results have been outstanding.
I use the "P" mode to avoid unwanted auto flash.
What puzzles me is the vastly different settings selected by the
camera in Full Auto compared to P. They should be the same.
Thanks,
Will B

Click to expand...

I only got a few replies, but putting them all together allows me to run some tests.

So far things look ok, but I think I need to get back on the water to try to replicate the conditions that we had when all shots were extremely over exposed.

I do shoot in M quite often, but over the years I have grown to trust my EOS cameras, and found that the green square is 95% right. This makes for great shooting when I really only have one hand free (like hanging out of a light aircraft or a helicopter)
Moving to P allows me some control over the auto mode.

I am now also using the Cancel Flash function at the far end of the dial, while in Auto.
Today's shoot seems ok so far. I am eliminating things one by one.

I have looked at WB, Exposure Compensation settings, the different Lenses and ISO, but I have not shot on water again. I will try to do that this afternoon.
I really should find out how to post on here, so I can show you the progress.
Thank you everyone, particularly Lemming51 whose reasoning was probably right.
The problem was that I was not the one shooting that day. It was my wife.

I set the camera up for her, and she just blazed away. It's not her fault, but she feels bad about the results.

But I need to eliminate all possibilities before I blame the camera, and return it.
Thanks again,
Will B

will baillieu said:

Only had one response on the 20D Forum, so I thought I might as
well post here as well:
I previously posted about problems with severe over exposure while
set on P.
I was caught a little by my lack of understanding of some control
features on the camera but I have since gone over the manual as
closely as I can.
The problem was that on a bright and sunny day, in Full Auto mode,
the flash kept popping up, while trying to photograph outdoors, on
a long distance swimming event.
So,I changed the setting to P, as was my habit on my EOS film
bodies. Result was that everything was then severely over exposed.
I have checked the settings since, shooting a fixed subject in day
time, and find that in full auto, if the flash decides not to pop
up, (which is rare, even on a bright sunny day) the settings might
be 1/250 at f/11.
Change to P and the settings are invariably vastly different - say
1/40 at f/5.6. The Full Auto result is ok The P result is severely
washed out.
What is going on?
And why is the flash popping up, even in full sunshine that is
coming from behind?
Why is there such a difference in the two auto programme modes?
Looking at the photo information after the ISO reading varies from
100-400. Does the ISO change in Auto mode too?
Is this 20D a dud, or is it me?
Can anyone assist?
Will B

Act

Click to expand...