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To G1 Or Not To G1

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Bruce46914

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Hi,

I've read with great interest just about every post on this forum concerning the G1, as I'm strongly considering the purchase of this camera. To be honest though, although I've picked up a great deal of valuable info from all the posts, it's also left me a bit confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, in regard to how well the camera performs focus-wise in full auto and in macro modes. Metering problem stories also seem to be quite prevalent. I would like to be able to explore all the creative possibilities the G1 has to offer, but at the same time, I'd like it to perform reliably and consistantly in full auto. I do a lot of product shooting for eBay in natural light (a great deal of which is in macro mode). The swivel LCD would be a great help in this regard. Will the camera perform consistantly under these conditions?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bruce
 
The G1 can take awesome shots, however, it wasn't designed to be a point and shoot primarily. Because you can do everything manually, it is my belief that Canon didn't put much effort into fine-tuning the Auto mode. If you shoot in Auto, you can't use RAW, so why pay for all kinds of nifty features like RAW and extensive manual options?

Get a camera that is touted for having a superb Auto mode, specifically one that has matrix metering rather than the G1's center weighted metering. I think that center weighted metering is the primary cause of people’s problems with G1 metering. The camera will expose for the center, not the whole image. If the center is dim, it will over-expose, and the reverse is true for a bright center. Getting around this requires that you decide what you want to expose for in the image, and use AE lock after spot metering. This makes quick shots difficult to accomplish in complex lighting situations.

You will also want to look for excellent auto focus, which the G1 doesn't have. :) Once again you can get around this, but it isn't great for full Auto operation. You have to learn it's quirks, especially for macro work.

You can work around the flaws of the G1 by knowing its limitations and extensive use of it’s more advanced features. If you are taking shots primarily for the web, it’s overkill.

Bors
Bruce said:
Hi,

I've read with great interest just about every post on this forum
concerning the G1, as I'm strongly considering the purchase of this
camera. To be honest though, although I've picked up a great deal
of valuable info from all the posts, it's also left me a bit
confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, in
regard to how well the camera performs focus-wise in full auto and
in macro modes. Metering problem stories also seem to be quite
prevalent. I would like to be able to explore all the creative
possibilities the G1 has to offer, but at the same time, I'd like
it to perform reliably and consistantly in full auto. I do a lot of
product shooting for eBay in natural light (a great deal of which
is in macro mode). The swivel LCD would be a great help in this
regard. Will the camera perform consistantly under these conditions?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bruce
Click to expand...
 
When I show my favorite prints to people they all say WOW and asked me what camera I use. Ironically, I am NOT comfortable recommending the G1 to anyone who plan to point and shoot, even only half the time.

Most my good shots were taken in with manual flash in Av (with some compensation) or manual then color/level corrected in Photo Shop -- way too technical and slow for point & shoot folks.

If you're a seasoned photographer (or plan to be one) and are willing to spend countless hours learning how to deal with the G1's quirks, it's ISO 50 smoothness makes possible for great pictures other cams in the class can't match.

The G1 is the best in some way and worst in many other ways, so make sure you know what you want and how much time/effort you're willing to invest.

Michael
 
Hi Bors,

Of course shooting anything above 640 x 480 for the web is overkill. What would be nice would be having a camera that not only shoots reliably in auto for the web, but has enough manual options available to allow you to learn and grow and experience creative photography. I'm curious why you feel the G1 doesn't have excellent auto focus? Your metering explanation makes a lot of sense.

Would you also consider the Nikon 995 to be overkill? I would prefer to steer clear of Sony, due to the proprietary Memory Stick, and I haven't seen an Oly that I was impressed with. Would also prefer to stick with CF, not SM cards. Also, as Pete pointed out, the swivel LCD of the G1 would be of great benefit for getting different straight angle product shots without breaking your back.

Any other recommendations will certainly be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Bruce
Bors said:
Get a camera that is touted for having a superb Auto mode,
specifically one that has matrix metering rather than the G1's
center weighted metering. I think that center weighted metering is
the primary cause of people’s problems with G1 metering. The
camera will expose for the center, not the whole image. If the
center is dim, it will over-expose, and the reverse is true for a
bright center. Getting around this requires that you decide what
you want to expose for in the image, and use AE lock after spot
metering. This makes quick shots difficult to accomplish in
complex lighting situations.

You will also want to look for excellent auto focus, which the G1
doesn't have. :) Once again you can get around this, but it isn't
great for full Auto operation. You have to learn it's quirks,
especially for macro work.

You can work around the flaws of the G1 by knowing its limitations
and extensive use of it’s more advanced features. If you are
taking shots primarily for the web, it’s overkill.

Bors
Bruce said:
Hi,

I've read with great interest just about every post on this forum
concerning the G1, as I'm strongly considering the purchase of this
camera. To be honest though, although I've picked up a great deal
of valuable info from all the posts, it's also left me a bit
confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, in
regard to how well the camera performs focus-wise in full auto and
in macro modes. Metering problem stories also seem to be quite
prevalent. I would like to be able to explore all the creative
possibilities the G1 has to offer, but at the same time, I'd like
it to perform reliably and consistantly in full auto. I do a lot of
product shooting for eBay in natural light (a great deal of which
is in macro mode). The swivel LCD would be a great help in this
regard. Will the camera perform consistantly under these conditions?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bruce
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Bruce,

I didn't realize you were into exploring creative photography. :) The G1 is great for that! Regarding auto-focus, the auto-focus on the G1 is slow, so action photos, even of something a slow as a child walking can be difficult. It is also very sensitive to the level of contrast in the center of the frame. If there isn't enough contrast the camera won't focus at all. It tries three or four times, then gives up. This can be especially frustrating in macro work. Also, in macro it isn't at all clear when you need to switch to Macro focus mode. It is quite hard (impossible sometimes) to tell from the LCD whether something is in focus, or whether the foreground our background is being focused on. It takes actually listening to the motor as it focuses. Many retries let you know it's having problems, and you need to switch to (or out of) Macro focus mode. I solve the lack of contrast problem by placing something in the picture to create contrast where I want the focus to center.

What you really want is spot Auto-focus, and the G1 doesn't have it. 995 does have it, but there are a host of other compromises.

I haven't looked at the 995 in depth, but a cursory glance at Phil's comparison ( http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp995/page23.asp ) leads me still to the G1 for RAW, f8(though Phil's numbers on this confuse me, I think there are some typos in this section), IR remote, swivel-tilt LCD, microdrive support, and battery life.

However, the matrix metering, and multiple AF modes(spot!) of the 995 are sorely missed in my G1. x4 zoom is very nice too.

Given that the G1 is older, it's price is dropping nicely.

Bors
Bruce said:
Of course shooting anything above 640 x 480 for the web is
overkill. What would be nice would be having a camera that not only
shoots reliably in auto for the web, but has enough manual options
available to allow you to learn and grow and experience creative
photography. I'm curious why you feel the G1 doesn't have excellent
auto focus? Your metering explanation makes a lot of sense.

Would you also consider the Nikon 995 to be overkill? I would
prefer to steer clear of Sony, due to the proprietary Memory Stick,
and I haven't seen an Oly that I was impressed with. Would also
prefer to stick with CF, not SM cards. Also, as Pete pointed out,
the swivel LCD of the G1 would be of great benefit for getting
different straight angle product shots without breaking your back.

Any other recommendations will certainly be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Bruce
Bors said:
Get a camera that is touted for having a superb Auto mode,
specifically one that has matrix metering rather than the G1's
center weighted metering. I think that center weighted metering is
the primary cause of people’s problems with G1 metering. The
camera will expose for the center, not the whole image. If the
center is dim, it will over-expose, and the reverse is true for a
bright center. Getting around this requires that you decide what
you want to expose for in the image, and use AE lock after spot
metering. This makes quick shots difficult to accomplish in
complex lighting situations.

You will also want to look for excellent auto focus, which the G1
doesn't have. :) Once again you can get around this, but it isn't
great for full Auto operation. You have to learn it's quirks,
especially for macro work.

You can work around the flaws of the G1 by knowing its limitations
and extensive use of it’s more advanced features. If you are
taking shots primarily for the web, it’s overkill.

Bors
Bruce said:
Hi,

I've read with great interest just about every post on this forum
concerning the G1, as I'm strongly considering the purchase of this
camera. To be honest though, although I've picked up a great deal
of valuable info from all the posts, it's also left me a bit
confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, in
regard to how well the camera performs focus-wise in full auto and
in macro modes. Metering problem stories also seem to be quite
prevalent. I would like to be able to explore all the creative
possibilities the G1 has to offer, but at the same time, I'd like
it to perform reliably and consistantly in full auto. I do a lot of
product shooting for eBay in natural light (a great deal of which
is in macro mode). The swivel LCD would be a great help in this
regard. Will the camera perform consistantly under these conditions?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bruce
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Bors,

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to test drive the camera tomorrow.

Best regards,

Bruce
Bors said:
Bruce,

I didn't realize you were into exploring creative photography. :)
The G1 is great for that! Regarding auto-focus, the auto-focus on
the G1 is slow, so action photos, even of something a slow as a
child walking can be difficult. It is also very sensitive to the
level of contrast in the center of the frame. If there isn't
enough contrast the camera won't focus at all. It tries three or
four times, then gives up. This can be especially frustrating in
macro work. Also, in macro it isn't at all clear when you need to
switch to Macro focus mode. It is quite hard (impossible
sometimes) to tell from the LCD whether something is in focus, or
whether the foreground our background is being focused on. It
takes actually listening to the motor as it focuses. Many retries
let you know it's having problems, and you need to switch to (or
out of) Macro focus mode. I solve the lack of contrast problem by
placing something in the picture to create contrast where I want
the focus to center.

What you really want is spot Auto-focus, and the G1 doesn't have
it. 995 does have it, but there are a host of other compromises.

I haven't looked at the 995 in depth, but a cursory glance at
Phil's comparison (
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp995/page23.asp ) leads me
still to the G1 for RAW, f8(though Phil's numbers on this confuse
me, I think there are some typos in this section), IR remote,
swivel-tilt LCD, microdrive support, and battery life.

However, the matrix metering, and multiple AF modes(spot!) of the
995 are sorely missed in my G1. x4 zoom is very nice too.

Given that the G1 is older, it's price is dropping nicely.

Bors
Click to expand...
 
I'm not happy with my 7 months old G1 and intend to exchange it for Pro 90 IS. The metering system in Auto is very, very disapointing. The handling with the extending lens is not" my cup of tea". During my last trip to Europe, I took about 460 pictures in Program . Many of them were over or underexposed. I don't like it.

Adam
 
Adam said:
Adam Witkowski said:
I'm not happy with my 7 months old G1 and intend to exchange it for> Pro 90 IS. The metering system in Auto is very, very disapointing.> The handling with the extending lens is not" my cup of tea". During> my last trip to Europe, I took about 460 pictures in Program . Many> of them were over or underexposed. I don't like it.> > Adam
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Hi Adam,

You stated that "many" of your pictures taken by the G1 were either under or over - exposed. Do you think it could be the photographer and not the camera? The G1 takes a bit of time to get use to and can be a bit demanding of skill. Along with being intimidating to use for beginners because it can do SO much, and has SO many settings.

Even in auto or P mode without an external Speedlite flash you will get underexposed pics in indoor settings usually. But that can be said of any camera taking pics indoors without an external flash to bump up the lighting to prevent underexposed pics.

I don't know what you photography skill set is, and I am still learning myself. A nice site I found online was http://www.webslr.com .

Regards...
JLC
 
Adam, the Pro 90 IS has the same metering system, so going that route isn't going to change much. If you want good auto mode picture and don't mind trading camera then go for the Sony DSC-S75/85, Nikon 995 or Olympus 3040.

Both the Pro 90 and G1 uses Center Weight Averaging metering. This is rather primitive, thus the G1 over / under exposure in different circumstances. However, its behavior is rather predictable, allowing a seasoned photographer to anticipate and set compensation accordingly -- it's a lot easier to learn than film photography but still takes a lot of practice. That's why I'm very reluctant recommending the G1 to my friends and relative, knowing they're expecting to get decent pics by P&S.

Michael
Adam said:
I'm not happy with my 7 months old G1 and intend to exchange it for
Pro 90 IS. The metering system in Auto is very, very disapointing.
The handling with the extending lens is not" my cup of tea". During
my last trip to Europe, I took about 460 pictures in Program . Many
of them were over or underexposed. I don't like it.

Adam
Click to expand...
 
Bruce,

I'm a bit of a novice with the G1 but am thus far THRILLED with the results. I've had some troubles with focusing, but friends on this forum have explained the usefulness of the P mode... which is virtually identical to AUTO except that it lets you choose spot focus, flash on/off, and a few other handy features... so I've switched from AUTO (lazy me!) to P with even better results than before! Also, if you are shooting for Ebay stuff (my favorite is candid photos of people in foreign travel... no time to adjust the focus), you can also choose to manually focus till you get a sharp image.
Good luck on your choice, but for my money the G1 is hard to beat!
Bruce said:
Hi,

I've read with great interest just about every post on this forum
concerning the G1, as I'm strongly considering the purchase of this
camera. To be honest though, although I've picked up a great deal
of valuable info from all the posts, it's also left me a bit
confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, in
regard to how well the camera performs focus-wise in full auto and
in macro modes. Metering problem stories also seem to be quite
prevalent. I would like to be able to explore all the creative
possibilities the G1 has to offer, but at the same time, I'd like
it to perform reliably and consistantly in full auto. I do a lot of
product shooting for eBay in natural light (a great deal of which
is in macro mode). The swivel LCD would be a great help in this
regard. Will the camera perform consistantly under these conditions?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bruce
Click to expand...
 
Michael W. said:
Adam, the Pro 90 IS has the same metering system, so going that
route isn't going to change much. If you want good auto mode
picture and don't mind trading camera then go for the Sony
DSC-S75/85, Nikon 995 or Olympus 3040.
Click to expand...
According to Phil's review, Sony's S85 ALSO has the center weight metering system. Is this the major reason why you don't recommend the G1 for auto mode use? Or are there other gotchas in addition to this?

--Geri
 
Of course there are other cameras with center weigh metering, but the implementation on the G1 and Pro 90 is notorious for over exposing even in relatively easy situations -- that's why users here find that they often set compensation to -1/3 or -2/3 on outdoor shots (personally I set compensation depending on how bright and how much of the sky is in the picture).

Michael
geri said:
Michael W. said:
Adam, the Pro 90 IS has the same metering system, so going that
route isn't going to change much. If you want good auto mode
picture and don't mind trading camera then go for the Sony
DSC-S75/85, Nikon 995 or Olympus 3040.
Click to expand...
According to Phil's review, Sony's S85 ALSO has the center weight
metering system. Is this the major reason why you don't recommend
the G1 for auto mode use? Or are there other gotchas in addition to
this?

--Geri
Click to expand...
 
There are a whole lot more gotcha's. One, the focus system is
not reliable. Before anyone argues this, even the manual warns
about this. The metering is so bad that Auto is useless, and
p-mode takes knowing the camera to get good shots. If I told
you the camera you are about to buy needed p-mode, dim light,
and a full minus 2 EV to take a picture of a rose that still needs
serious editing to make it usable, would you consider that a gotcha?
The shutter is limited to 1/500th at anything but f-8. The flash
sync only works at slow speeds. In the end, you will have to
use p-mode and comp for every shot you take with the camera.
I often use manual settings as part of getting difficult shots.
That is normal. For that to be required by a modern digicam for
ever shot is inexcusable. After about 1000 shots now, I have
printed four of them. I printed more than that a day with the Casio.
This camera is for people that want to play photographer on every
shot, and are willing to accept that if they are wrong, the picture
will be useless.
Michael W. said:
Michael
geri said:
Michael W. said:
Adam, the Pro 90 IS has the same metering system, so going that
route isn't going to change much. If you want good auto mode
picture and don't mind trading camera then go for the Sony
DSC-S75/85, Nikon 995 or Olympus 3040.
Click to expand...
According to Phil's review, Sony's S85 ALSO has the center weight
metering system. Is this the major reason why you don't recommend
the G1 for auto mode use? Or are there other gotchas in addition to
this?

--Geri
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
This is how I do it. Not really spot focus, but pretty close: You turn on spot metering, point at the object you want in focus, hold the shutter button down half way, the camera focuses (and meters), then you recompose, and push the button the rest of the way down. Also works without using the spot meter mode.

Bors
Michael W. said:
Michael
MichaelJamesSchmidt wrote:
...it lets you choose spot
Michael w said:
focus, flash on/off, and a few other handy features...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
If you are looking for a camera that takes good quality photo's using full auto - then you will be sorely dissapointed with the G1.
Michael W. said:
http://www.botzilla.com/photo/G1focus.html

Bascially my experience agrees with everything said there.

Michael
Bors said:
Bors
Michael W. said:
Michael
MichaelJamesSchmidt wrote:
...it lets you choose spot
Michael w said:
focus, flash on/off, and a few other handy features...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hi Bruce, and Bors,

I never saw this in Phil's review - about the G1 giving up on focusing, I don't want to venture any crazy ideas here, but this is puzzling, considering Phil supposedly tests out cameras right down to their inner being.

I"m going to go back and check Phil's review on this.... if the G2 is like this,
this is scary !

Mark
Bors said:
I didn't realize you were into exploring creative photography. :)
The G1 is great for that! Regarding auto-focus, the auto-focus on
the G1 is slow, so action photos, even of something a slow as a
child walking can be difficult. It is also very sensitive to the
level of contrast in the center of the frame. If there isn't
enough contrast the camera won't focus at all. It tries three or
four times, then gives up. This can be especially frustrating in
macro work. Also, in macro it isn't at all clear when you need to
switch to Macro focus mode. It is quite hard (impossible
sometimes) to tell from the LCD whether something is in focus, or
whether the foreground our background is being focused on. It
takes actually listening to the motor as it focuses. Many retries
let you know it's having problems, and you need to switch to (or
out of) Macro focus mode. I solve the lack of contrast problem by
placing something in the picture to create contrast where I want
the focus to center.

What you really want is spot Auto-focus, and the G1 doesn't have
it. 995 does have it, but there are a host of other compromises.

I haven't looked at the 995 in depth, but a cursory glance at
Phil's comparison (
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikoncp995/page23.asp ) leads me
still to the G1 for RAW, f8(though Phil's numbers on this confuse
me, I think there are some typos in this section), IR remote,
swivel-tilt LCD, microdrive support, and battery life.

However, the matrix metering, and multiple AF modes(spot!) of the
995 are sorely missed in my G1. x4 zoom is very nice too.

Given that the G1 is older, it's price is dropping nicely.

Bors
Bruce said:
Of course shooting anything above 640 x 480 for the web is
overkill. What would be nice would be having a camera that not only
shoots reliably in auto for the web, but has enough manual options
available to allow you to learn and grow and experience creative
photography. I'm curious why you feel the G1 doesn't have excellent
auto focus? Your metering explanation makes a lot of sense.

Would you also consider the Nikon 995 to be overkill? I would
prefer to steer clear of Sony, due to the proprietary Memory Stick,
and I haven't seen an Oly that I was impressed with. Would also
prefer to stick with CF, not SM cards. Also, as Pete pointed out,
the swivel LCD of the G1 would be of great benefit for getting
different straight angle product shots without breaking your back.

Any other recommendations will certainly be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Bruce
Bors said:
Get a camera that is touted for having a superb Auto mode,
specifically one that has matrix metering rather than the G1's
center weighted metering. I think that center weighted metering is
the primary cause of people’s problems with G1 metering. The
camera will expose for the center, not the whole image. If the
center is dim, it will over-expose, and the reverse is true for a
bright center. Getting around this requires that you decide what
you want to expose for in the image, and use AE lock after spot
metering. This makes quick shots difficult to accomplish in
complex lighting situations.

You will also want to look for excellent auto focus, which the G1
doesn't have. :) Once again you can get around this, but it isn't
great for full Auto operation. You have to learn it's quirks,
especially for macro work.

You can work around the flaws of the G1 by knowing its limitations
and extensive use of it’s more advanced features. If you are
taking shots primarily for the web, it’s overkill.

Bors
Bruce said:
Hi,

I've read with great interest just about every post on this forum
concerning the G1, as I'm strongly considering the purchase of this
camera. To be honest though, although I've picked up a great deal
of valuable info from all the posts, it's also left me a bit
confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, in
regard to how well the camera performs focus-wise in full auto and
in macro modes. Metering problem stories also seem to be quite
prevalent. I would like to be able to explore all the creative
possibilities the G1 has to offer, but at the same time, I'd like
it to perform reliably and consistantly in full auto. I do a lot of
product shooting for eBay in natural light (a great deal of which
is in macro mode). The swivel LCD would be a great help in this
regard. Will the camera perform consistantly under these conditions?

Thanks in advance for any input.

Bruce
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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