DSL a-comin'

Doug Kerr said:

I nust thought I'd let you know that Carla and I have decided to
spring for high-speed Internet access here at World Headquarters,
via an AT&T/Covad DSL.

We made all the necessary local wiring arrangements here over the
weekend (e have an elaborate telephone distribution situation here,
with two central office lines, 9 two-line telephones, a security
system transmitter, a fax machine with its own coded ring, etc.,
all connected via a mini Main Distributing Frame in the attic), and
we received notice that the central office work for the DSL was
completed on Friday.

The trunk for the family room skylight makes access to the mini-MDF

• located on the ridge beam in the attic, sited before the

installation of the skylight - difficult, and I'm not as agile a
"frame monkey" as I was a few years ago!

We now await the arrival of our DSL modem and filter kit, which
AT&T sent on Thursday via 3-day UPS service ("Brown Barge", Carla
calls it)! So much for high-speed access!

We'll first go online with only the server machine here, and then
if that seems to work, we'll introduce our new LinkSys DSL router
so that Carla's workstation and the laptop will also get into the
act. (The three are currently connected together just via an
Ethernet hub.)

I'm sure configuring all this will be very character-bulilding.

But now we'll no longer cuss when one of you posts 6 images in a
message!

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--

There has not been open-wire subscriber loop plant in this part of Dallas since long before my time.

Best regards,

Doug

but I live to far from the closest station or that's what they tell me, can't get cable either.

Doug Kerr said:

I nust thought I'd let you know that Carla and I have decided to
spring for high-speed Internet access here at World Headquarters,
via an AT&T/Covad DSL.

We made all the necessary local wiring arrangements here over the
weekend (e have an elaborate telephone distribution situation here,
with two central office lines, 9 two-line telephones, a security
system transmitter, a fax machine with its own coded ring, etc.,
all connected via a mini Main Distributing Frame in the attic), and
we received notice that the central office work for the DSL was
completed on Friday.

The trunk for the family room skylight makes access to the mini-MDF

• located on the ridge beam in the attic, sited before the

installation of the skylight - difficult, and I'm not as agile a
"frame monkey" as I was a few years ago!

We now await the arrival of our DSL modem and filter kit, which
AT&T sent on Thursday via 3-day UPS service ("Brown Barge", Carla
calls it)! So much for high-speed access!

We'll first go online with only the server machine here, and then
if that seems to work, we'll introduce our new LinkSys DSL router
so that Carla's workstation and the laptop will also get into the
act. (The three are currently connected together just via an
Ethernet hub.)

I'm sure configuring all this will be very character-bulilding.

But now we'll no longer cuss when one of you posts 6 images in a
message!

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Its not perfest all of the time, but its beats the heck out of dialup.

PaulyOly said:

Doug Kerr said:

I nust thought I'd let you know that Carla and I have decided to
spring for high-speed Internet access here at World Headquarters,
via an AT&T/Covad DSL.

We made all the necessary local wiring arrangements here over the
weekend (e have an elaborate telephone distribution situation here,
with two central office lines, 9 two-line telephones, a security
system transmitter, a fax machine with its own coded ring, etc.,
all connected via a mini Main Distributing Frame in the attic), and
we received notice that the central office work for the DSL was
completed on Friday.

The trunk for the family room skylight makes access to the mini-MDF

• located on the ridge beam in the attic, sited before the

installation of the skylight - difficult, and I'm not as agile a
"frame monkey" as I was a few years ago!

We now await the arrival of our DSL modem and filter kit, which
AT&T sent on Thursday via 3-day UPS service ("Brown Barge", Carla
calls it)! So much for high-speed access!

We'll first go online with only the server machine here, and then
if that seems to work, we'll introduce our new LinkSys DSL router
so that Carla's workstation and the laptop will also get into the
act. (The three are currently connected together just via an
Ethernet hub.)

I'm sure configuring all this will be very character-bulilding.

But now we'll no longer cuss when one of you posts 6 images in a
message!

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...

--
http://pbase.com/teppy/galleries

I have direcway satellite, and it's great. I only have the one-way system, because I rarely up-load that much. I live too far out to get cable, or DSL, so this is all I can go with. When we get snow, it will sometimes build up on the dish, so there I am hanging out the 2nd floor window, with my sons supersoaker filled with hot salt water, shooting onto the dish. Believe it or not, it works and I'm usually back up in no time.....

m~
--
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about!
Photo Gallery @ http://www.Digitalmike.smugmug.com

Hi Doug,

I had RSN cable (TV) installed about a month ago and decided to go with cable internet too. They installed a Motorola 7mps cable modem...the thing is a screamer. I ordered a Vonage (voice over IP) phone adapter and cancelled my regular phone service, saving $30-$40/month, sounds just like a regular phone. I also set up a wireless network for my printers and laptop. I could not be happier with the speed/reliability and I can use the laptop anywhere in the house with the wireless card and print to either printer. The whole thing took about an hour to set up with a little help from Netgear customer service. Good luck with yours, you'll love it. High speed is definately the way to go!

:::alf
visit my mini gallery http://www.pbase.com/asap/10d



Run, romp and play daily

Alf Sapperstein said:

Hi Doug,
I had RSN cable (TV) installed about a month ago and decided to go
with cable internet too. They installed a Motorola 7mps cable
modem...the thing is a screamer. I ordered a Vonage (voice over
IP) phone adapter and cancelled my regular phone service, saving
$30-$40/month, sounds just like a regular phone. I also set up a
wireless network for my printers and laptop. I could not be
happier with the speed/reliability and I can use the laptop
anywhere in the house with the wireless card and print to either
printer. The whole thing took about an hour to set up with a little
help from Netgear customer service. Good luck with yours, you'll
love it. High speed is definately the way to go!

:::alf
visit my mini gallery http://www.pbase.com/asap/10d



Run, romp and play daily

Click to expand...

--
:::alf
visit my mini gallery http://www.pbase.com/asap/10d



Run, romp and play daily

Jason said:

There's lots of people that will tell you how they're getting 5Mb/s
downloads from their cable internet service. What they're not
telling you is every once in awhile that drops to 768Kb/s or slower
during peak load. At least with Comcast around Chicago that's the
case. They've oversold and overextended their architecture, so
most of the time you're paying $50/month for internet service
that's the same speed as the $25/month DSL. As always, your
mileage may vary. Cable is almost always variable and shared
bandwidth, whereas DSL is usually locked into a Class of Service
restriction for just your line where you don't get any less than
3/4 of your allocated bandwidth, nor do you get more than what they
say your top cap is. I like getting what I pay for, and I don't
need much more than 768Kb down anyway.

Click to expand...

Wow. YM really, REALLY MV.

I was on Verizon DSL (with a third-party ISP) for several years here in central NC, USA. Our service agreement stated that we were capped at 768K down, 128K up, but that we were absolutely guaranteed a minumum data rate of, um, well, 16K in each direction. That's right -- for our $50 a month (then), we could be sure of a connection at least half as fast as a 33.6K modem. Unless, of course, the service was down.

Glad to hear not everyone has such ludicrous service agreements these days. But, during the six months or so that we had both RoadRunner cable and DSL, I never saw a time when cable wasn't faster than DSL, and I don't think there were more of a handful of times when we saw much less than the advertised 2Mbit downstream on our cable.

Oh, and I also noticed that when I was shipping a lot of data upstream on DSL (approaching the 128K capacity), downstream capacity plummeted, probably approaching the 16K lower limit. I don't know whether this was a limit of the DSL hardware we had, incompetence on Verizon's part, or inherent in the operation of DSL.

Now, a few years later, we're up to 5Mbit downstream on our cable service (at the same price), and I'm usually seeing at least 4Mbit when I meter a large download. (At this point, I'm probably limited by my 802.11b wireless LAN, not by the cable link's capacity.) I know Verizon has faster service classes available, but RoadRunner still absolutely stomps them on price/performance, at least in my experience. (For that matter, RoadRunner also has faster service classes available.)

I understand things are a little better for our neighbors on BellSouth, because they get a much wider choice of third-party ISPs. With Verizon, most of the good ones weren't available.

Jason198448 said:

Also, in my experience, the packet latency is much higher in cable
networks due to aforementioned overselling. DSL round trip ping
times to the local Point of Presence tend to be about 1/3 the times
of most of my buddies' Comcast cable runs. Doesn't matter how big
the pipe is if things are moving through at a snail's pace.

Click to expand...

I don't think I ever saw a latency much less than 80ms to anything outside of Verizon's local infrastructure. I haven't tested RoadRunner latency in ages, but when last I did, it was much better.

Jason198448 said:

Anyway, sorry to babble on. Get yourself a good DSL
Router/Firewall (Linksys aren't bad, just read the manual and
change the default passwords and settings when you get it) and you
should have no worries.

Click to expand...

I concur. And even the worst DSL or cable is so much better than the best dialup, you'll never, ever go back...

I thought I checked with direct TV and I couldn't get satellite connection either. How much does it cost you including the cost of the dish?

stephanie gaspard said:

PaulyOly said:

Doug Kerr said:

I nust thought I'd let you know that Carla and I have decided to
spring for high-speed Internet access here at World Headquarters,
via an AT&T/Covad DSL.

We made all the necessary local wiring arrangements here over the
weekend (e have an elaborate telephone distribution situation here,
with two central office lines, 9 two-line telephones, a security
system transmitter, a fax machine with its own coded ring, etc.,
all connected via a mini Main Distributing Frame in the attic), and
we received notice that the central office work for the DSL was
completed on Friday.

The trunk for the family room skylight makes access to the mini-MDF

• located on the ridge beam in the attic, sited before the

installation of the skylight - difficult, and I'm not as agile a
"frame monkey" as I was a few years ago!

We now await the arrival of our DSL modem and filter kit, which
AT&T sent on Thursday via 3-day UPS service ("Brown Barge", Carla
calls it)! So much for high-speed access!

We'll first go online with only the server machine here, and then
if that seems to work, we'll introduce our new LinkSys DSL router
so that Carla's workstation and the laptop will also get into the
act. (The three are currently connected together just via an
Ethernet hub.)

I'm sure configuring all this will be very character-bulilding.

But now we'll no longer cuss when one of you posts 6 images in a
message!

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...

--
http://pbase.com/teppy/galleries

Click to expand...

--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Doug

Doug,

That Linksys BEFSR41 unit is a good one. I bought the BEFSW41, it's the same but with a wireless access point built in. I abandonned by Linux firewall since I knew I was never actually reading my firewall logs and never updating it on a timely basis anyway. Shoemaker's kids going unshod an all that...

I think the only thing you really have to worry about is making sure the "allow remote management" checkbox isn't checked. That would allow someone to get into the management interface from the DSL side of things. Other than that just pick a strong password (numbers, letters, and symbols) and if you're as prone to forgetting things as I am, just write it down on a post-it and tape it to the bottom of the unit. My thought is that if someone breaks into my house, compromising my DSL is the last thing I'm worried about them doing.

Thanks,
Jason

--
--The good ones are accidents, the rest I come by naturally
http://www.nightyear.net/gallery

While your downstream connection is 1.5 mbps, the best you can expect to get is about 1.2 due to the TCP/IP overhead, and that is only if the other end and all the pipes inbetween can support that speed. The card in the CO is not different, its provisioned to provide you a 1.5 Mbps downstream through software. The CO cards are actually capable of delivering 7 megs down and 1.5 up, but telcos don't sell that speed as it would steal folks away from their cash cow T1s. Additionally, to get that kind of speed using DSL, your the length of your copper loop would have to be fairly short, you would have to be within one mile or less of the Central Office. IMHO, you should really go with the 384 kbps up and 3.0 mbps downstream for $10 more. This is especially true since you are hosting websites. The kbps is kilo bits per second, not kilo bytes per second (8 bits per byte), so when you divide the 128 by 8, if only one person is surfing one of your web sites at a time, the max they can get is about 14 bytes per second download throughput. Try surfing one of your sites from the other side and you will see how slow it is, especially on a broadband connection.

Yes, I work on in a Central Office and work on circuits from DSL to OC-192 (10 gigabit per second fiber optics). I installed DSL the first year I worked for an ILEC. The one filter method mentioned is the best by far. Each filter will knock off a little DSL signal. Go into your Network settings and get rid of the dialup TCP/IP completely and it won't try to kick in.

--
Regards,
John
http://www.johnferguson.net

I pay 39.99 a month for one way. If you get a good view of the southern sky, you should be able to get it. Direcway.com can help you find it. I think the dish and modem were free after rebate at BestBuy. You can usually find a deal.

m~

PaulyOly said:

stephanie gaspard said:

PaulyOly said:

Doug Kerr said:

I nust thought I'd let you know that Carla and I have decided to
spring for high-speed Internet access here at World Headquarters,
via an AT&T/Covad DSL.

We made all the necessary local wiring arrangements here over the
weekend (e have an elaborate telephone distribution situation here,
with two central office lines, 9 two-line telephones, a security
system transmitter, a fax machine with its own coded ring, etc.,
all connected via a mini Main Distributing Frame in the attic), and
we received notice that the central office work for the DSL was
completed on Friday.

The trunk for the family room skylight makes access to the mini-MDF

• located on the ridge beam in the attic, sited before the

installation of the skylight - difficult, and I'm not as agile a
"frame monkey" as I was a few years ago!

We now await the arrival of our DSL modem and filter kit, which
AT&T sent on Thursday via 3-day UPS service ("Brown Barge", Carla
calls it)! So much for high-speed access!

We'll first go online with only the server machine here, and then
if that seems to work, we'll introduce our new LinkSys DSL router
so that Carla's workstation and the laptop will also get into the
act. (The three are currently connected together just via an
Ethernet hub.)

I'm sure configuring all this will be very character-bulilding.

But now we'll no longer cuss when one of you posts 6 images in a
message!

Best regards,

Doug

Click to expand...

--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...

--
http://pbase.com/teppy/galleries

Click to expand...

--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root

Click to expand...

--
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about!
Photo Gallery @ http://www.Digitalmike.smugmug.com

Hi, John,

Chief said:

While your downstream connection is 1.5 mbps, the best you can
expect to get is about 1.2 due to the TCP/IP overhead, and that is
only if the other end and all the pipes inbetween can support that
speed.

Click to expand...

Indeed.

Chief said:

The card in the CO is not different, its provisioned to
provide you a 1.5 Mbps downstream through software.

Click to expand...

Indeed.

Chief said:

The CO cards
are actually capable of delivering 7 megs down and 1.5 up

Click to expand...

Didn;t know that was the potential.

Chief said:

but
telcos don't sell that speed as it would steal folks away from
their cash cow T1s.

Click to expand...

My daughter lives out int eh boonies, and when her conpany set her up to office at her house, they sprung for a DS1!

Chief said:

Additionally, to get that kind of speed using
DSL, your the length of your copper loop would have to be fairly
short, you would have to be within one mile or less of the Central
Office.

Click to expand...

9.5 kft here.

Chief said:

IMHO, you should really go with the 384 kbps up and 3.0
mbps downstream for $10 more. This is especially true since you
are hosting websites.

Click to expand...

We might indeed do that.

However, my sites are not hosted here - they are hosted at the ISP (AT&T).

Chief said:

The kbps is kilo bits per second, not kilo
bytes per second (8 bits per byte) . . .

Click to expand...

Which would be kB/s . . .

Chief said:

so when you divide the 128 by
8, if only one person is surfing one of your web sites at a time,
the max they can get is about 14 bytes per second download
throughput.

Click to expand...

Chief said:

Try surfing one of your sites from the other side and
you will see how slow it is, especially on a broadband connection.

Yes, I work on in a Central Office and work on circuits from DSL to
OC-192 (10 gigabit per second fiber optics). I installed DSL the
first year I worked for an ILEC.

Click to expand...

Wow! Sounds interesting. SONET is neat.

Last time I really worked in a CO was in 1957!

Chief said:

The one filter method mentioned
is the best by far. Each filter will knock off a little DSL
signal.

Click to expand...

Yes, and much handier from a standpoint of ISP tidyness!

Chief said:

Go into your Network settings and get rid of the dialup
TCP/IP completely and it won't try to kick in.

Click to expand...

Well, I like to to keep the protocol binding in place so I can use the dialup if I need to. But I have theh connection sharing neutered! (We use the Sygate package.)

Thanks so much for writing. I'm looking forward to our keeping in touch.

Best regards,

Doug

I am paid large amounts of money to work on this stuff...some of your statements are misleading / uninformed.

hockeynut said:

And, if you want to get down to brass tacks, DSL has offered 5meg,
7meg, and 10meg for much of the past 5 years. Very few people
order it because it's more expensive to offer, but it is available.

Click to expand...

Incorrect...Central Office DSLAM cards output a maximum of 7 megs downstream. I work in a large Central Office and part of what I do is work on DSLAMs. The cards in Remote terminals like LiteSpan 2000s http://www.alcatel.com and UMC1000s http://www.afc.com Advanced Fiber Communications / Tellabs have a maximum of 7 meg downstream. The cards have to be certified by the FCC and higher power cards don't meet FCC requirements. Most Telcos offer a max of 5 megs. I built LiteSpan 2000 and UMC 1000 remote terminals for over a year before working in the Central Office...trust me on this or go to the manufacturers website for more information.

hockeynut said:

Perhaps some of you Comcast cable modem customers are wondering why
you can't run a web server at home? Comcast, in their infinite
wisdom, has decided that due to the Code Red virus (from years
ago), they are going to block port 80. Forever. Yes. You got
it. Who's got Code Red today? Anyone? Yet Comcast still blocks
port 80 to every subscriber. It's truly one of the dumbest things
I've ever heard of. But Comcast insists that it's for our
protection. Cable modem, you don't get a choice of your ISP. In
fact, if the power fails in your neighborhood, your cable modem
will lose signal even though you might have generators or battery
backup.

Click to expand...

Wrong again, its all about the Benjamins. Cable modems are provisioned with the MAC address of the NIC in your computer and if they detect more than one MAC address, they won't allow it to pull an IP address. You can get all the IPs you want, as long as you pay for them.

hockeynut said:

DSL, if your neighborhood loses power, you will still get DSL
signalling... so if you are on battery backup, you won't lose your
DSL line.

Click to expand...

How many people have thier Computer, Monitor, and DSL modem on a UPS? How long will that UPS last? Long enough to save your work and turn off your system. Do you think the Cable Company uses the same power as your house? Nope.

hockeynut said:

And for those that confuse speed with bandwidth, DSL again beats
the tar out of cable modem. DSL is frequently used with ATM as the
underlying transport protocol. For those unfamiliar with ATM, it
is the Ferrari of packet transport protocols.

Click to expand...

Both Cable and DSL use ATM 55 byte packets, that is the internet standard. DSL does not have exclusivity on ATM this...yuk yuk yuk...

hockeynut said:

With DSL, I can get ping times of 9 milliseconds to the Internet
backbone, and 20 or 30 milliseconds to either the east or west
coast. Cable modem, I'm lucky to get 60-90 milliseconds to the
backbone, and 160 to 250 milliseconds to the east or west coasts.
How much does this affect the typical home user? Not much. But
with the recent success of VoIP phones, you might guess which one
does better with VoIP.

Click to expand...

While true that DSL typically has much better ping times, Cable has a higher top speed. Ping is king when playing games like Quake, the lower your ping the faster you move. Think of it this way...in day to day surfing, DSL is faster as it is quicker off the line, but downloading large files, Cable wins as you get more bandwidth overall. DSL wins the quarter mile race, but Cable has a much higher top end and once up to speed, Cable leaves DSL in the dust. Many DSL providers require PPPoE, which was poorly implemented before WinXP. Alarm systems interfere with DSL. Unless you live within 2 miles of a Central Office or remote terminal, you won't get 1.5 Mbps downstream, making your DSL speed (if it is even available) dependant on the length of your copper loop. Both technologies have their pluses and minuses.

Given a choice, I would choose DSL, however, even though I work for a company that sells DSL I have cable...because DSL is not available where I live. With cable, I get 4 megs downstream, 256k upstream, and true DHCP TCP/IP. they have great customer service, less than a minute wait 24/7 to talk to a human who knows what they are doing and is not in India with English as a third language reading a dumbo script.

My telecom job allowed me to purchase this new toy a week ago...



--
Regards,
John
http://www.johnferguson.net

Hi, Jason,

Jason said:

Doug,

That Linksys BEFSR41 unit is a good one. I bought the BEFSW41,
it's the same but with a wireless access point built in. I
abandonned by Linux firewall since I knew I was never actually
reading my firewall logs and never updating it on a timely basis
anyway. Shoemaker's kids going unshod an all that...

Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth!

Jason198448 said:

I think the only thing you really have to worry about is making
sure the "allow remote management" checkbox isn't checked.

Click to expand...

Yes, I'll confirm that. Thanks.

Jason198448 said:

That
would allow someone to get into the management interface from the
DSL side of things. Other than that just pick a strong password
(numbers, letters, and symbols) and if you're as prone to
forgetting things as I am, just write it down on a post-it and tape
it to the bottom of the unit. My thought is that if someone breaks
into my house, compromising my DSL is the last thing I'm worried
about them doing.

Click to expand...

I had thought that password only pertained to local access for reconfiguration. Does it also protect against some type of mischief from "outside"?

After I had the router working OK with two workstations, I looked at the configuration screen system for the DSL modem (a Broadxent 8012-V) and saw a check box for "I am accessing this thing through a router". It was unchecked, so I checked it.

After that, everything worked really screwy for those apps that used SSL access (mainly Eudora, my e-mail handler). So I just unchecked the box, and now everything seems to be working OK again. (The check box supposedly indicated whether the modem would be hearing from the computer or the router with regard to starting the TCP/IP connection.)

Thanks for the tips.

Best regards,

Doug

Doug Kerr said:

9.5 kft here.

Click to expand...

That distance should go 3 megs downstream reliably, probably not make 5 unless you have zero bridgetap and mostly 22/24 guage loop. 6 kft was the 5 meg limit when I installed DSL.

Doug Kerr said:

However, my sites are not hosted here - they are hosted at the ISP
(AT&T).

Click to expand...

aha! fat fiber pipes there...I misunderstood and thought that you were doing your own hosting.

Doug Kerr said:

Last time I really worked in a CO was in 1957!

Click to expand...

Was it Dallas Taylor by chance? That place is HUGE!!!

Regards,
John

Hi, John,

Chief said:

How many people have thier Computer, Monitor, and DSL modem on a
UPS?

Click to expand...

Moi. Also the desk lamp (really shakes up the neighbors when we have an outage!)

Carla's workstation is on a second one.

Would be nicer is all this stuff ran from CO battery!

(My house in Middletown Township, New Jersey had a 48 V battery plant! It was mostly for the PBX.)

Best regards,

Doug

Probably because your copper loop was too long. Many of the telcos have built remote terminals fed by fiber to shorten that copper loop. Some telcos are going to feed their customers by fiber in the near future, that will allow you to get all the speed / entertainment you want.

You made the right choice.

The only thing I ever do on the internet that takes significant time is uploading pictures to my web-site. It sometimes takes 20-30 minutes at 1.5Mbs upload speed (I have symmetrical 1.5 DSL from Qwest). In my area, Comcast offers 4Mbs download but only 384k upload. That would make my current 20 minute upload on DSL take an hour and 20 minutes on cable!

Lee Jay