D7 vs E-10

Jens(Sweden) · Jul 5, 2001

Can’t wait any longer for the D7. Decided to go for the E-10 and
to be honest, I don’t regret it.

I’ve always been using Minoltas SRL cameras and I’ve been quite
happy with those, so the D7 is probably also a very good camera.
However the design and plastic feeling made me dissapoined.

I know a lot of you complains about the E-10 weight and shutter speed.

I don’t agree. All the professional SRL’s are heavy because of a solid
construction and it also makes the camera more stable in hand when
taking a photo.
Regarding the shutter speed. I tried the E-10 in both action and very light
situations. No problem at all !

Anyway, no matter you choose the E-10, D7 or any other camera, the main
thing must be to understand the cameras function and behavior in different

situations. Realizing that it’s not only the camera that decides if a picture will
be good or bad.

Good luck with your D7 !

Junjiro Saito said:
Did you see this
site? http://www.okimoto.ne.jp/muray/Lab/Work6/e10di7.html

You can compare D7 with E-10.

Robert Scultz · Jul 5, 2001

since the E-10 is useing a beam splitter, I would have expected to see less noise from the D7!!

that leaves me thinking , only the real SLR designs, where they use 10-12um pixels have the quality.
...than again the dust problem is serious too ...

handling:
D7 faster processer, startup, preview
manual focus zoom 4x for better focusing, and preview.
28-200mm lens, 1GB microdirve support,
and a real Flash, thank you,
now you can use a Minolta,Sunpak, Metz flash, with battery pack.
and higher resolution ccd.

conclusions: E-10 is noisy enough,
to just go for better handling and a litle resolution is questionable.

price is right, volume is right, hope they make good money on this one, to comeup with a pro digital camera, it will be inovative, again, but Nikon will and has already grabbed the market share!

what's next ?
speed up .... Nikon D1x frames/sec ...
zooms, glass,

slow down ... Rollei 6008 and scanning, at 4000dpi = 77Mpixel, downsample to 2000dpi to reduce grain,
still be 20Mpixel,
capture size matters, as does quality glass, .... and a tripod.

cheers, Robert Schultz
http://www.rs-plaza.com/photo/E-10/e-10.htm

Andreas P. · Jul 5, 2001

Robert,

Although i enjoy each information which i can get in aspect of the D7 there is one thing which i think should be taken into account.

The setting of the internal sharpening of the D7. It seems it is quite agressive.

Regards,

Andreas

abc · Jul 5, 2001

Actually, I find the D7 + B300 combination to be considerably vgnetted. This combo is certainly inferior to the Nikon 990 with a Nikon 2X +B300 combo, where there is no vgnetting at the max tele position and the overall optical clarity would appear to be considerably better. Once I get my D7, I will dod some side by side comparisons to see if my initial view changes when they are both used on the same subject with as nearly the same settings as is possible. But for now, I have no hesitation in saying that the 990 with X2 and B300 is clearly superior. I already have that combination which produces a 390 mm + focal length, so I too can live with the situation. I simply won't use the B300 on the camera. No point.

For anyone wanting more focal length, the Oly 1.45 x would certainly be a better buy.

dh

Joo said:
Seems to be some vignetting in the corners with the WCON-08 and the
B-300. A little dissappointing but I think I can live with it
considering the D7 has a 5MP sensor. Can still crop and get a
decent resolution photo.

Joo

Randy said:

Randy said:

Andrew Gtant said:

Having said all of the above, the D7 shots do have a little more
detail. I wouldn't loose too much sleep if I had an E-10 though.

Maxven said:

Junjiro Saito said:

Did you see this
site? http://www.okimoto.ne.jp/muray/Lab/Work6/e10di7.html

You can compare D7 with E-10.

Click to expand...

Being apparently the only person on this planet who cannot access
this website, could anyone please tell me what the overall
conclusion seems to be regarding the picture quality of the two
cameras?
Thanks!

~~Maxven~~

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Dimage 7 plus converter lenses
http://www.okimoto.ne.jp/muray/Lab/Work7/di7con.html

Click to expand...

http://www.okimoto.ne.jp/muray/Lab/labindex.html

Click to expand...

Andrew Grant · Jul 5, 2001

Robert Schultz said:
since the E-10 is useing a beam splitter, I would have expected to
see less noise from the D7!!

Well the D7 has the same size CCD as the E-10 but crams more pixels on to it.

Member said:
that leaves me thinking , only the real SLR designs, where they use
10-12um pixels have the quality.
...than again the dust problem is serious too ...

The dust problem varies depending on the SLR and how it is used. Seem to be less on the CMOS based D30. Could be the CMOS does not generate a static charge. You still have to be careful though.

Member said:
handling:
D7 faster processer, startup, preview
manual focus zoom 4x for better focusing, and preview.
28-200mm lens, 1GB microdirve support,
and a real Flash, thank you,

What wrong with the E-10 flash.

Member said:
now you can use a Minolta,Sunpak, Metz flash, with battery pack.
and higher resolution ccd.

conclusions: E-10 is noisy enough,
to just go for better handling and a litle resolution is questionable.

If you already have the E-10, I owuld agree that the upgrade is questionable.

Member said:
price is right, volume is right, hope they make good money on this
one, to comeup with a pro digital camera, it will be inovative,
again, but Nikon will and has already grabbed the market share!

What is really needed is a camera with a CCD size less than the "pro" SLRs (to reduce cost), but larger than the CCDs in the current consumer cameras.

Tegenfeldt · Jul 5, 2001

Jens said:
Can’t wait any longer for the D7. Decided to go for the E-10 and
to be honest, I don’t regret it.

...> However the design and plastic feeling made me dissapoined.

Just curious, do you even held a D7 in your own hands? If not, the "plastic feeling" may not be justified.

But, you are of course free to get the E10, whatever reasons you state. I am certain that it is a fine camera and that you can be satisfied with it.

Jens(Sweden) said:
I know a lot of you complains about the E-10 weight and shutter speed.
I don’t agree. All the professional SRL’s are heavy
because of a solid
construction and it also makes the camera more stable in hand when
taking a photo.

I have seen this many times, and I simply doesn´t get it.

If you hold something heavy your arms are tiring quite fast and trembles more and more. That won´t happen with a light camera that doesn´t put any strain on arm muscles. And by the way, this is in no way of saying weak or strong bodybuilder physics is a difference here, it is a static situation and the trembling is a subconcious and uncontrollable thing. You can learn to keep still for short periods of time, but it sure is easier with a smaller load!

A heavy tripod will have less vibrations than a light one, but I bet that with practice a light camera is easier to hold still than a heavy one! It may feel awkward at first, but practice some and see.

For me, a small weight and size area very important factors of a camera. It means that the camera is easy to carry along all the time, instead of sitting on a tripod in the studio...

Anyone want to comment on weight==steady? I don´t find that to be true (for me).

Leo Terminello · Jul 5, 2001

Jens said:
I’ve always been using Minoltas SRL cameras and I’ve
been quite
happy with those, so the D7 is probably also a very good camera.
However the design and plastic feeling made me dissapoined.

The D7 has magnesium alloy sub-frame, the same as my K2 inline skates(a top brand). I know you have seen what inline skates are put through. I would not equate weight with durability in this age of incredibly strong plastics and alloys.
I know a lot of you complains about the E-10 weight and shutter speed.
I don’t agree. All the professional SRL’s are heavy
because of a solid
construction and it also makes the camera more stable in hand when
taking a photo.
Regarding the shutter speed. I tried the E-10 in both action and
very light
situations. No problem at all !

Anyway, no matter you choose the E-10, D7 or any other camera, the
main
thing must be to understand the cameras function and behavior in
different
situations. Realizing that it’s not only the camera that
decides if a picture will
be good or bad.

Good luck with your D7 !

Junjiro Saito said:

Did you see this
site? http://www.okimoto.ne.jp/muray/Lab/Work6/e10di7.html

You can compare D7 with E-10.

Click to expand...

lilharley · Jul 5, 2001

I agree on the feel of E-10, in my hands, it feels like it was made for it. This was one of the selling points when I was first looking. The weight helps me stabilize it, not letting the my hands move around as much. I know it sounds a little contradictory, but it works for me. The E-10 may be a too much for the P&S crowd since it is a little big.

Now the D7 is what I am looking for my wife. She is a little intimated by the E-10, but loves its pictures. Hopefully, the D7 will come through the noise problem (yes, there is quite a bit of noise in some of the pictures I have seen so far) without it detering my buying decision for her. The size and weight would be a better fit for her I believe.
Mike D

Tegenfeldt said:
Jens said:

Can’t wait any longer for the D7. Decided to go for the E-10 and
to be honest, I don’t regret it.

Click to expand...

...> However the design and plastic feeling made me dissapoined.

Just curious, do you even held a D7 in your own hands? If not, the
"plastic feeling" may not be justified.

But, you are of course free to get the E10, whatever reasons you
state. I am certain that it is a fine camera and that you can be
satisfied with it.

Tegenfeldt said:

I know a lot of you complains about the E-10 weight and shutter speed.
I don’t agree. All the professional SRL’s are heavy
because of a solid
construction and it also makes the camera more stable in hand when
taking a photo.

Click to expand...

I have seen this many times, and I simply doesn´t get it.

If you hold something heavy your arms are tiring quite fast and
trembles more and more. That won´t happen with a light camera that
doesn´t put any strain on arm muscles. And by the way, this is in
no way of saying weak or strong bodybuilder physics is a difference
here, it is a static situation and the trembling is a subconcious
and uncontrollable thing. You can learn to keep still for short
periods of time, but it sure is easier with a smaller load!

A heavy tripod will have less vibrations than a light one, but I
bet that with practice a light camera is easier to hold still than
a heavy one! It may feel awkward at first, but practice some and
see.

For me, a small weight and size area very important factors of a
camera. It means that the camera is easy to carry along all the
time, instead of sitting on a tripod in the studio...

Anyone want to comment on weight==steady? I don´t find that to be
true (for me).

Thanasis Siozos · Jul 5, 2001

However, the signs are much more readable in the E10 pic. Look at the one on the left that reads "Summer Collection" and the red one on the bottom right that reads "LARKOne". These are hardly comprehensible in the DiMAGE pic.

Junjiro Saito said:
Did you see this
site? http://www.okimoto.ne.jp/muray/Lab/Work6/e10di7.html

You can compare D7 with E-10.

David J. Littleboy · Jul 5, 2001

Thanasis Siozos said:
However, the signs are much more readable in the E10 pic. Look at
the one on the left that reads "Summer Collection" and the red one
on the bottom right that reads "LARKOne". These are hardly
comprehensible in the DiMAGE pic.

Right. But much of that is because those are being imaged with a 35 mm lens on the E-10, and a 28 mm lens on the D7.

FWIW, though, my reading of the imaging-resources resolution test chart photos is that the S85 (which (I'm quite sure) uses the same sensor as the E-10) provides as good if not better resolution than the D7.

DJL

Rob Millenaar · Jul 5, 2001

Tegenfeldt said:
Tegenfeldt said:

I know a lot of you complains about the E-10 weight and shutter speed.
I don’t agree. All the professional SRL’s are heavy
because of a solid
construction and it also makes the camera more stable in hand when
taking a photo.

Click to expand...

I have seen this many times, and I simply doesn´t get it.

If you hold something heavy your arms are tiring quite fast and
trembles more and more. That won´t happen with a light camera that
doesn´t put any strain on arm muscles. And by the way, this is in
no way of saying weak or strong bodybuilder physics is a difference
here, it is a static situation and the trembling is a subconcious
and uncontrollable thing. You can learn to keep still for short
periods of time, but it sure is easier with a smaller load!

A heavy tripod will have less vibrations than a light one, but I
bet that with practice a light camera is easier to hold still than
a heavy one! It may feel awkward at first, but practice some and
see.

Well, basic physics says that something heavy has a larger moment of inertia than someting light. That means that it is easier to shake a light thing than a heavy thing. Many examples in daily life... Try taking a picture when you've been running to get at the action: You hold your breath but still you see your own hearbeat shaking the camera. A heavy camera will 'dampen' the motion because of it's large moment of inertia.

Heavy tripods do make sense. Likewise a heavy camera is easier to hold still. That is if you're strong enough to lift it

Ofcourse if you have to hold still for a long time the balance will tip and a light camera will have the advantage because tired muscles tend to get the 'shakes'. B.t.w. sports photographers use their heavy monsters with a monopod as support for that reason.
Rob

Hugo Martinez · Jul 6, 2001

David J. Littleboy said:
... the S85 (which (I'm quite sure) uses the same
sensor as the E-10) ...

The S85 does not use the same sensor - the E-10's is 2/3, the S85 is about 1/1.7 (or 1/1.8?).

Hugo
http://hugomartinez.com

Andrew Grant · Jul 6, 2001

The S85 is 1/1.8 same as the 3.3MP digicams. I think the E-10 is the only camera with a 2/3 4MP sensor.

Hugo Martinez said:
David J. Littleboy said:

... the S85 (which (I'm quite sure) uses the same
sensor as the E-10) ...

Click to expand...

The S85 does not use the same sensor - the E-10's is 2/3, the S85
is about 1/1.7 (or 1/1.8?).

Hugo
http://hugomartinez.com

Andrew Grant · Jul 6, 2001

What you are asking for is a D30 with a fixed lens. That would not be much cheaper than the D30 with the EF lens mount. Not sure who else would buy it, the EF lenses are a major advantage of the D30 (and major expense of course).

aee said:
Junjiro Saito said:

D30 is much better than D7, I think.

Click to expand...

I sure wish Canon would put the D30's imager in a camera like the
E-10 (minus the E-10's manual focus calibration problem). That
would be my dream camera. Well, a little big and heavy but I think
I could cope. Life is full of sacrifices.

Oh well. Back to reality (and Minolta).

aee · Jul 6, 2001

Andrew Grant said:
That would not be much cheaper than the D30

I know. Unless they cut corners (or their margin) it would probably cost MORE. There is no "business case" for producing such a camera. That's why fixed-lens cameras will continue to have rather sad imagers by comparison. Sigh. So much for my dream camera.

Andrew Grant27981 · Jul 6, 2001

Actually, rumors are surfacing of a digital Rebel for around $1000 to $1500. The only catch, it may be 2.1MP. I would still pick it over a D7.

aee said:
aee said:

That would not be much cheaper than the D30

Click to expand...

I know. Unless they cut corners (or their margin) it would
probably cost MORE. There is no "business case" for producing such
a camera. That's why fixed-lens cameras will continue to have
rather sad imagers by comparison. Sigh. So much for my dream
camera.

Tricia · Jul 6, 2001

Of course you would - you would pick anything that said Canon, Nikon (or possibly Contax?) on the body instead of Minolta. I believe that you've made that clear already...but keep saying it, maybe you can talk everyone interested in a D7 into getting a second mortgage to buy a camera and the lens that you recommend. It's certainly working on me...not! ;-)

Tricia

Andrew Grant said:
Actually, rumors are surfacing of a digital Rebel for around $1000
to $1500. The only catch, it may be 2.1MP. I would still pick it
over a D7.

Bob the Printer · Jul 6, 2001

Thanasis Siozos said:
However, the signs are much more readable in the E10 pic. Look at
the one on the left that reads "Summer Collection" and the red one
on the bottom right that reads "LARKOne". These are hardly
comprehensible in the DiMAGE pic.

They are BOTH 'comprehensible' to me! And remember that the D7 pic was taken from a wider zoom position than the E-10 was...

To me, these comparisons mean absolutely nothing. We have no idea of how much sharpening was used in either camera (it appears that the D7 has more sharpening applied to it though) for just one thing.

And remember that the E-10 still lists for about $500 more than the D7, so it SHOULD perform better eh? Not to say that it really does though.

And one comment about the noise in either picture. They are about eqaual in noise level in the sky I would say..

Now get on back to your Oly forum before they realize that you're gone!

Bob Dolson

lilharley · Jul 6, 2001

Bob,

I believe the topic is comparison between the D7 and the E-10. I would hope E-10 owners are allowed to voice their opinion on this topic.
Mike D

Bob Dolson said:
Thanasis Siozos said:

However, the signs are much more readable in the E10 pic. Look at
the one on the left that reads "Summer Collection" and the red one
on the bottom right that reads "LARKOne". These are hardly
comprehensible in the DiMAGE pic.

Click to expand...

They are BOTH 'comprehensible' to me! And remember that the D7 pic
was taken from a wider zoom position than the E-10 was...

To me, these comparisons mean absolutely nothing. We have no idea
of how much sharpening was used in either camera (it appears that
the D7 has more sharpening applied to it though) for just one thing.

And remember that the E-10 still lists for about $500 more than the
D7, so it SHOULD perform better eh? Not to say that it really does
though.

And one comment about the noise in either picture. They are about
eqaual in noise level in the sky I would say..

Now get on back to your Oly forum before they realize that you're
gone!

Bob Dolson

Andrew Grant27981 · Jul 7, 2001

I have no interest in "converting" you from Minolta. I am sure Minolta is thrilled with your loyalty. My previous camera was an Olympus, so I am not a Canon loyalist. If you are buying a self contained consumer digicam the name on the body does not really matter, unless you want to use an existing TTL flash system. It would be nice to be able to reuse the same memory cards though.

If you are buying an SLR (film or digital), I would recommend either Canon or Nikon. Buying an SLR because of the body's feature set is stupid. The system of lenses available is the most important thing. Canon and Nilkon have the best range and availabilty of lenses. Contax has nice lenses but they are very expensive and their range is very limited. So unless you are very rich, no I would not suggest a Contax.

You Trica might want to at least check out the Oly E-10, unless of course you will only buy something that says Minolta.

Tricia said:
Tricia

Andrew Grant said:

Actually, rumors are surfacing of a digital Rebel for around $1000
to $1500. The only catch, it may be 2.1MP. I would still pick it
over a D7.

Click to expand...

D7 vs E-10

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