new slr/n trouble

Hi Gang,

I just purchased an slr/n and I am seeing a problem that I hope one of you can address for me.

I was shooting a high key image and noticed a darker section at the top of the frame. now it is not light dropoff as I am lighting with a bunch of huge softboxes, so I know that my light is even.

I then did a test shooting just white seamless with the my 80-200 nikor lens. I have already followed all steps to let the camera know what lens I am using, and have shot at both auto and with the actual lens peramiters for the lens and see no difference. The darkness is subtle until you drop the exposre down.

I am in contact with kodak, but you never know how long they will take to help

I am attaching two images. one is at normal exposure and one with the exposure droped down to really show what I am talking aobut:





let me know if anyone has a suggestion.
Keith
--
For evil to triumph, good men need do absolutely nothing.

What is your shutter speed? Although sync is stated to be 125th in some situations, it is really less than this. Drop shutter speed to 90th second and see if you still get it.

John

Keithtr said:

Hi Gang,
I just purchased an slr/n and I am seeing a problem that I hope one
of you can address for me.

I was shooting a high key image and noticed a darker section at the
top of the frame. now it is not light dropoff as I am lighting
with a bunch of huge softboxes, so I know that my light is even.

I then did a test shooting just white seamless with the my 80-200
nikor lens. I have already followed all steps to let the camera
know what lens I am using, and have shot at both auto and with the
actual lens peramiters for the lens and see no difference. The
darkness is subtle until you drop the exposre down.

I am in contact with kodak, but you never know how long they will
take to help

I am attaching two images. one is at normal exposure and one with
the exposure droped down to really show what I am talking aobut:





let me know if anyone has a suggestion.
Keith
--
For evil to triumph, good men need do absolutely nothing.

Click to expand...

--
*********************
http://photos.johnfhill.com

John's hit it on the head... especially if you use a radio slave there's enough delay to give those resluts at 125.

Albert

jhill said:

John

Keithtr said:

Hi Gang,
I just purchased an slr/n and I am seeing a problem that I hope one
of you can address for me.

I was shooting a high key image and noticed a darker section at the
top of the frame. now it is not light dropoff as I am lighting
with a bunch of huge softboxes, so I know that my light is even.

I then did a test shooting just white seamless with the my 80-200
nikor lens. I have already followed all steps to let the camera
know what lens I am using, and have shot at both auto and with the
actual lens peramiters for the lens and see no difference. The
darkness is subtle until you drop the exposre down.

I am in contact with kodak, but you never know how long they will
take to help

I am attaching two images. one is at normal exposure and one with
the exposure droped down to really show what I am talking aobut:





let me know if anyone has a suggestion.
Keith
--
For evil to triumph, good men need do absolutely nothing.

Click to expand...

--
*********************
http://photos.johnfhill.com

Click to expand...

This looks like the one drawback to full frame sensors. The Canon has this to a degree as well. Something in the physics of light striking the sensor at a greater angle at the corner and edges of the frame results in a slight darkening.

I see this occurring very often with my SLR/n. As I'm a portrait guy, and very often vignette images anyway, it doesn't bother me. You can fight the effect, though, if you choose - by doing a lightening vignette on the image while converting from RAW in Adobe CS.

Jim Herndon

Keithtr said:

Hi Gang,
I just purchased an slr/n and I am seeing a problem that I hope one
of you can address for me.

I was shooting a high key image and noticed a darker section at the
top of the frame. now it is not light dropoff as I am lighting
with a bunch of huge softboxes, so I know that my light is even.

I then did a test shooting just white seamless with the my 80-200
nikor lens. I have already followed all steps to let the camera
know what lens I am using, and have shot at both auto and with the
actual lens peramiters for the lens and see no difference. The
darkness is subtle until you drop the exposre down.

I am in contact with kodak, but you never know how long they will
take to help

I am attaching two images. one is at normal exposure and one with
the exposure droped down to really show what I am talking aobut:





let me know if anyone has a suggestion.
Keith
--
For evil to triumph, good men need do absolutely nothing.

Click to expand...

guys,
I was using the 125 shutter speed. and I am using a quantum radio slave.
Did not try it slower. I'll try slower tomorrow.

Even tho I am a portrait guy as well, I dont want to have to make this correction on every dang image I shoot from now on!
I have kodak working on it..

Any other suggestions?
Keith

Hi Keith

Had this prblem myself. Had Kodak/Fixation supply a new camera. A slight improvement @ 125th, but still evident. Now shoot @ 90th and problem very rarely evident.

They got me to buy a wein 'safesync' and use a flash lead ( old hat or what ) before they agreed to exchange the body. In my opinion if enough of us complain about this, maybe they will try a firmware resolve? ( If possible ).

By the way the answer I got from Kodak was 'it was a well know problem with the Nikon N80 body and was not their problem as I should have been aware of the problem!' As you can imagine, that did not wash with me and I pointed out their advertised flash sync speed with no mention of drop off! I also stated that 125th was not exactly pushing the limits with current camera technology. They eventually placated!

The camera still performs well in it's niche area - studio 160asa or good daylight. These days I even accept the image quality at 320asa in commercial PR images.

Best of luck with Kodak.

Keithtr said:

guys,
I was using the 125 shutter speed. and I am using a quantum radio
slave.
Did not try it slower. I'll try slower tomorrow.
Even tho I am a portrait guy as well, I dont want to have to make
this correction on every dang image I shoot from now on!
I have kodak working on it..

Any other suggestions?
Keith

Click to expand...

--
John Cooper

Keithtr said:

guys,
I was using the 125 shutter speed. and I am using a quantum radio
slave.
Did not try it slower. I'll try slower tomorrow.
Even tho I am a portrait guy as well, I dont want to have to make
this correction on every dang image I shoot from now on!
I have kodak working on it..

Any other suggestions?
Keith

Click to expand...

--

shoot studio sync @ 1/90

Rob

Keith

I would like to suggest that you run a simple test to assure that it is not a lighting issue.

Try the same picture with the camera rotated 90 degrees and 180 degree.
If it is the camera, the dark area will stay in the top of the image.

Paul Smargiassi

studiomk said:

By the way the answer I got from Kodak was 'it was a well know
problem with the Nikon N80 body and was not their problem as I
should have been aware of the problem!'

Click to expand...

Yeah, I've heard that one before - and it's really disturbing. Kodak has chosen to use F80 body, so they should not try to pass all the blames to Nikon - and for a couple of times they have done it falsely (like in the case of combining longer mode and mirror pre-release).

--
Jouko Vierumäki
http://galleria.vierumaki.com/

Paul Smargiassi said:

Keith

I would like to suggest that you run a simple test to assure that
it is not a lighting issue.

Try the same picture with the camera rotated 90 degrees and 180
degree.
If it is the camera, the dark area will stay in the top of the image.

Paul Smargiassi

Click to expand...

Paul,

great minds think alike.. I already did the test you are suggesting, and came up with the same results... the dark area followed the turning of the camera. It is definatly not light fall off. I really believe it is a shutter issue as suggested by the others. When I get in the stucio on saturday AM I am going to try the slower shutter and see what happens... I'll post the results.

Thanks for the input!
Keith

--
For evil to triumph, good men need do absolutely nothing.

In my experience as Kodak UK support, some studio flashes are slower to trigger hence using 1/90th sync is a good move. Not all studio flashes are like this. There is no reason why a cordless trigger should not be used but the Wien unit is good though.

For Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss studioMK - I do not think you spoke to me, and I would not have anwered with ref to any limitations of the F80 body. Nobody else in Kodak UK is qualified to comment on that aspect of performance so I wonder just who you did speak to in "Kodak".

My answer to you would have been as above.
regards, Martin.

studiomk said:

Had this prblem myself. Had Kodak/Fixation supply a new camera. A
slight improvement @ 125th, but still evident. Now shoot @ 90th and
problem very rarely evident.

They got me to buy a wein 'safesync' and use a flash lead ( old hat
or what ) before they agreed to exchange the body. In my opinion if
enough of us complain about this, maybe they will try a firmware
resolve? ( If possible ).

By the way the answer I got from Kodak was 'it was a well know
problem with the Nikon N80 body and was not their problem as I
should have been aware of the problem!' As you can imagine, that
did not wash with me and I pointed out their advertised flash sync
speed with no mention of drop off! I also stated that 125th was not
exactly pushing the limits with current camera technology. They
eventually placated!

The camera still performs well in it's niche area - studio 160asa
or good daylight. These days I even accept the image quality at
320asa in commercial PR images.

Best of luck with Kodak.

Keithtr said:

guys,
I was using the 125 shutter speed. and I am using a quantum radio
slave.
Did not try it slower. I'll try slower tomorrow.
Even tho I am a portrait guy as well, I dont want to have to make
this correction on every dang image I shoot from now on!
I have kodak working on it..

Any other suggestions?
Keith

Click to expand...

--
John Cooper

Click to expand...

--
Martin Wood

Guys,

I just ran the shutter speed check at the studio. I shot 180th sec thru 60th sec.

at 90th sec the darkness does go away.

This appears to be a shutter sync issue. why Kodak says 125th is sync is beyond me. I had enough trouble swallowing the 125th sec sync and now I have to slip down to 90th?!

I am not sure how much of a problem this is going to be... for most in camera room portrait work it should not be an issue, but outdoors it may be.

any one having issues with flash sync outdoors at 90th?

Keith

Keith, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I doubt very much if you will notice it outdoors. In fact I doubt it will occurr at all with a portable unit. It is just studio flashes that can be slow to trigger and have relatively slow burn times. Outdoors or with a TTL flash just use at 1/125th as specified and do not worry.

Martin

Keithtr said:

Guys,
I just ran the shutter speed check at the studio. I shot 180th sec
thru 60th sec.

at 90th sec the darkness does go away.

This appears to be a shutter sync issue. why Kodak says 125th is
sync is beyond me. I had enough trouble swallowing the 125th sec
sync and now I have to slip down to 90th?!

I am not sure how much of a problem this is going to be... for most
in camera room portrait work it should not be an issue, but
outdoors it may be.

any one having issues with flash sync outdoors at 90th?

Keith

Click to expand...

--
Martin Wood

Martin Wood said:

Martin

Keithtr said:

Guys,
I just ran the shutter speed check at the studio. I shot 180th sec
thru 60th sec.

at 90th sec the darkness does go away.

This appears to be a shutter sync issue. why Kodak says 125th is
sync is beyond me. I had enough trouble swallowing the 125th sec
sync and now I have to slip down to 90th?!

I am not sure how much of a problem this is going to be... for most
in camera room portrait work it should not be an issue, but
outdoors it may be.

any one having issues with flash sync outdoors at 90th?

Keith

Click to expand...

zz1
--
Martin Wood

Click to expand...

Try it hard wired to your studio flash. It could be a slow response to the radio slave. I know I get occasional 1/2 frames with my Quantum 4i if the batteries are low or pushing the edge of its range.

Modern studio flashes do not use a high trigger voltage but if you are concerned get the Wein SafeSync. The Kodak manual states the voltage limit is 250VDC.
Greg

1reeves said:

Martin Wood said:

Martin

Keithtr said:

Guys,
I just ran the shutter speed check at the studio. I shot 180th sec
thru 60th sec.

at 90th sec the darkness does go away.

This appears to be a shutter sync issue. why Kodak says 125th is
sync is beyond me. I had enough trouble swallowing the 125th sec
sync and now I have to slip down to 90th?!

I am not sure how much of a problem this is going to be... for most
in camera room portrait work it should not be an issue, but
outdoors it may be.

any one having issues with flash sync outdoors at 90th?

Keith

Click to expand...

zz1
--
Martin Wood

Click to expand...

Try it hard wired to your studio flash. It could be a slow
response to the radio slave. I know I get occasional 1/2 frames
with my Quantum 4i if the batteries are low or pushing the edge of
its range.
Modern studio flashes do not use a high trigger voltage but if you
are concerned get the Wein SafeSync. The Kodak manual states the
voltage limit is 250VDC.
Greg

Click to expand...

-----

i seem to get this sort of thing when i use a zoom lens,used at the wide angle end.

George Richardson

tabloid said:

i seem to get this sort of thing when i use a zoom lens,used at the
wide angle end.

George Richardson

Click to expand...

What you are seeing is probably lens fall off. This happens most often with zooms at the wide end.
1reeves

Fall off is almost certainly vignetting George. Use Photosop CS and use the vignetting tool to remove.

I had a photographer at Focus with this He was blaming the camera as he has done for the last year for every error and mistake he has made.

This time it was "lines" down the side. It was only vignetting and I showed him how to deal with it.

Problem is that although this guy takes photos - he has no idea how the photography thing works nor does he "do" computers.

He has plagued me for a year! And its Him every time!!!!

There that's off my chest.
Martin

1reeves said:

1reeves said:

i seem to get this sort of thing when i use a zoom lens,used at the
wide angle end.

George Richardson

Click to expand...

What you are seeing is probably lens fall off. This happens most
often with zooms at the wide end.
1reeves

Click to expand...

--
Martin Wood

Martin Wood said:

I had a photographer at Focus with this He was blaming the camera
as he has done for the last year for every error and mistake he has
made.
This time it was "lines" down the side. It was only vignetting and
I showed him how to deal with it.
Problem is that although this guy takes photos - he has no idea how
the photography thing works nor does he "do" computers.

He has plagued me for a year! And its Him every time!!!!

There that's off my chest.
Martin

Martin Wood said:

Martin Wood said:

i seem to get this sort of thing when i use a zoom lens,used at the
wide angle end.

George Richardson

Click to expand...

What you are seeing is probably lens fall off. This happens most
often with zooms at the wide end.
1reeves

Click to expand...

--
Martin Wood

Click to expand...

thank you for that.

GR

Keithtr said:

Guys,
I just ran the shutter speed check at the studio. I shot 180th sec
thru 60th sec.

at 90th sec the darkness does go away.

This appears to be a shutter sync issue. why Kodak says 125th is
sync is beyond me. I had enough trouble swallowing the 125th sec
sync and now I have to slip down to 90th?!

Click to expand...

There are two issues:

1. What is the maximum speed at which the entire image area is exposed
by the shutter?

2. How soon after trigger (by the camera) does the flash actually go off?

So if you have 1/125 as the answer to #1, but the wrong answer to #2,
you still have a problem. I don't know the tolerance here, but it seems
that some flashes, especially studio units at the end of a chain of devices
(e.g. radio slaves, etc.) are a bit beyond it.

[snip]

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

Martin,

'Studio MK' - name is John ( Mr! ).

The problem with the sync speed is not acceptable for a camera sold to professionals. Nikon or Kodaks problem is not the problem of the photographer. Kodak advertised 125th! Not exactly pushing the sound barrier these days. And the camera does not deliver.

Fixation where I puirchased the camera, contacted Kodak. In fact they may have contacted Germany, I don't remember. But Kodak told Fixation that it was a known fault with the F80/N80 Nikon body, not their problem. Blamed my use of 'old studio flash units!' These are Bowens traveller and quad packs, mono heads as well.

Now I don't remember anywhere in the advertising for the camera any mention that all studios purchasing this camera should haver top spend thousands on tht latest studio flash units on the off chance you may get a 125th flash sync. Also that the camera may require a wein safe sync unit - if the camera is anymore sensitive to electronic fluctuations, build it into the camera for god sake!

Luckily for me the majority of my work is studio tabletop, and location architecture. Here, apart from 'cronic' moire problems - sometimes resolved through PD but with a long processing time in comparison to ACR. Also highlights are handled better in ACR.

SLR/N - when its good its great!!!

Martin Wood said:

For Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss studioMK - I do not think you spoke to me, and I
would not have anwered with ref to any limitations of the F80 body.
Nobody else in Kodak UK is qualified to comment on that aspect of
performance so I wonder just who you did speak to in "Kodak".

My answer to you would have been as above.
regards, Martin.

studiomk said:

Had this prblem myself. Had Kodak/Fixation supply a new camera. A
slight improvement @ 125th, but still evident. Now shoot @ 90th and
problem very rarely evident.

They got me to buy a wein 'safesync' and use a flash lead ( old hat
or what ) before they agreed to exchange the body. In my opinion if
enough of us complain about this, maybe they will try a firmware
resolve? ( If possible ).

By the way the answer I got from Kodak was 'it was a well know
problem with the Nikon N80 body and was not their problem as I
should have been aware of the problem!' As you can imagine, that
did not wash with me and I pointed out their advertised flash sync
speed with no mention of drop off! I also stated that 125th was not
exactly pushing the limits with current camera technology. They
eventually placated!

The camera still performs well in it's niche area - studio 160asa
or good daylight. These days I even accept the image quality at
320asa in commercial PR images.

Best of luck with Kodak.

Keithtr said:

guys,
I was using the 125 shutter speed. and I am using a quantum radio
slave.
Did not try it slower. I'll try slower tomorrow.
Even tho I am a portrait guy as well, I dont want to have to make
this correction on every dang image I shoot from now on!
I have kodak working on it..

Any other suggestions?
Keith

Click to expand...

--
John Cooper

Click to expand...

--
Martin Wood

Click to expand...

--
John Cooper