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Asif
Well-known member
I think the original post was referring to Microsoft Windows XP, the operating system. Some posts in this thread are confusing it with Office XP, the office suite, which is already available.
My $0.02 -
I think ME is a bit too flaky, but Win 2000 is as good as we can expect from MS. I'm sticking to it.
XP's lockout shouldn't be a problem, whilst there are PC's there will be hacks for PC software. A hack will be out as soon as XP OS is released.
The main beef is that Windows 2000 was supposed to be the 'final' evolution where Windows for home merged with Windows NT. The home products (3.1, 95, 98) were supposed to converge with the office products (3.11, NT 3.51, NT4) to produce one definitive OS for all users - ie Win2000. However, during late development it was realised that this was not viable yet so up sprung the interim solution - Windows ME. This feels like it was thrown together fairly quickly, which it was, and therefore I don't like it. It crashes alot and drivers have not been written to support older hardware.
I think SA's and Users are just very peeved that they have to do another upgrade when the last one was supposed to cover this new evolution.
My $0.02 -
I think ME is a bit too flaky, but Win 2000 is as good as we can expect from MS. I'm sticking to it.
XP's lockout shouldn't be a problem, whilst there are PC's there will be hacks for PC software. A hack will be out as soon as XP OS is released.
The main beef is that Windows 2000 was supposed to be the 'final' evolution where Windows for home merged with Windows NT. The home products (3.1, 95, 98) were supposed to converge with the office products (3.11, NT 3.51, NT4) to produce one definitive OS for all users - ie Win2000. However, during late development it was realised that this was not viable yet so up sprung the interim solution - Windows ME. This feels like it was thrown together fairly quickly, which it was, and therefore I don't like it. It crashes alot and drivers have not been written to support older hardware.
I think SA's and Users are just very peeved that they have to do another upgrade when the last one was supposed to cover this new evolution.
D
David Birkin
Guest
i agree. only reason i jumped from winNT to win2k was mainly for usb support. win xp offers nothing new..except some headaches.Subject says it all.
Jim Hawthorne
Member
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2 reason whi I won't.
I have a laptop and a dektop. Whatever the legalities / niceties of the situation I have W2K installed on both machines from the same CD I purchased. I don't care what M$ says -- as an individual user it is nonsense to talk about buying a separate copy of Windows for my laptop and desktop and I bet most of you out there do the same thing -- I am not a corporate running a huge Network nor am I trying to swindle Microsoft.
With XP you have to register per machine -- reason nr 1.
Reason nr 2. I am sure all of you for one reason or another have re-installed Windows 2000 (or W95 or W98 or Wme) on your machine. Either you've got new hardware, you just want to clean up or the system has crashed so badly only a new install will fix it. With windows XP any significant change (Microsoft's words) you have to re-register
So what happens if you wipe your hard disk clean and re-install
forget it.
I can understand Piracy issues but in this case it's ordinary individuals who will suffer. Can you imagine EXXON phoning up microsoft to get a license key every time its help desk has to re-install windows on any of it's 10,000 or more world wide PC networks - rubbish. Microsoft should go after the organised pirating gangs in the far East and on the warez sites!!
Anyway so long as Photoshop works I will stick with W2K. Otherwise I might have to learn The Gimp and go to LINUX
D
Dick-
Guest
BS your a scammer...you have had three names in the past three weeks...lamer...
Jim Hawthorne
Member
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Hi there
Hope you weren't referring to me -- I always post under my own name --if one is too afraid to say something then one should keep one's trap firmly shut
Not trying to start a war here but please reply to the correct person to avoid misunderstandings
and I most certainly do NOT work for Microsoft nor have I on this board or anywhere else on the internet called myself Ionuti whoever eh / she is
rick23035
Leading Member
Pasha:
As a computer tech I'm looking forward to the massive increase in revenues Windows XP is going to bring my business.
rick
and what happens on phone call eleven?
As a computer tech I'm looking forward to the massive increase in revenues Windows XP is going to bring my business.
rick
E
Eugene Powers
Guest
And maybe we all going to be asking Stanton how to build MAC clones in the future.
Eugene Powers
Eugene Powers
C Sprec
Well-known member
stanton
Senior Member
As many of you know, I'm a long time Mac user who just installed my first PC. Yes, its finally running fine and has finally had some enjoyable moments. I know that a lot of my intial frustration was due to hardware issues, but as "friendly" as y'all think Win2K is, its not as friendly as I've been used to. There's only one word that describes Microsoft- PREDATOR.
Microsoft and Bill Gates has become more powerful than the United States government. Microsoft virtually ignored the original anti-trust settlement and have continued to violate the law with impunity . Until now Microsoft might have been considered a "benevolent dictator" but Microsoft is only emboldened by recent court decisions in which the Appellate Court reversed a lower court's decision, not based on the merits of the case, but on statements considered to be prejudicial. The lawyering, not the law, supported Microsoft, which I believe may ultimately impact world history.
Without an OS and applications to run it, the computer on you desk is a worthless pile-o-parts. Bill Gates has always known that and is playing a masterful game to exploit it. High speed internet access for the masses has eliminated his last hurdle for controlling what is in your PC and making sure he extracts his "tribute"...and that can be whatever price he names. $300 for Win2k? And you thought that was ludicrous? You think you're ultimately going to get off that cheap with XP Subscriptions? Hell no. Gates knows how long one amortizes an OS before updating to the next OS... I can see it now. The next step is to only offer XP to new computer manufacturers...(with a year's free subscription, you say?).
Microsoft's whole philosophy and approach to the world has been to create and maintain a monopoly. Ever try to access a web page with Netscape that was created with FrontPage? Half the content is missing. FrontPage writes code that only Explorer can see. Accident? I think not. MS Word- Every version has new "stuff" that requires an updated version to read. You are tacitly coerced into upgrading, simply because Microsoft software is so prolific. People buy their crap because of name recognition, not because of quality programming and intuitive interface. Microsoft isn't stupid, and has gotten away with murder for years- with total impunity. Cross platform compatibility? Forgetaboutit. You want cross platform, you go buy another piece of software that creates a workaround for it.
You have to hand it to Microsoft. They are brilliant. They have created a niche market where they are the only game in town. They have eliminated any competition though any legal and illegal means required. And they want you to pay... and pay...and pay. You think you own your computer? You'll only be leasing it from Microsoft, regardless of where the hardware comes from. Microsoft has taken a great lesson from the US government. Like the goverment it makes you think you own your money and your property, and has figured out how to make you contribute on a continous basis and non-voluntary basis... And the sick thing is, they make you think you have a choice.
I had always wondered what the PC world was like. The PC world IS Microsoft, and the more I see, the less I like. XP? Only kicking and screaming.
Sincerely,
Stanton
stanton
Senior Member
As soon as I clicked the POST button on my message, I saw this...
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0107/01070301kodakvsmicrosoft.asp
Amazing...but no surprise.
Stanton
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0107/01070301kodakvsmicrosoft.asp
Amazing...but no surprise.
Stanton
TonyK_in_Texas
Senior Member
Mind if I roast a few marshmellow over the flames to follow?
Pasha
Leading Member
well...
i have upgraded two companies with office XP in the last month... total of 400 users... i know it's not winxp but the activation process is the same...
i have not had to make one phone call... the activation was done through the internet...
my former company is a software development shop and we were working on integrating team services feature of office xp using sharepoint server and the office xp suite... we crashed and burned a lot of times and had to reinstall the product a LOT... not once did we have to call microsoft...
the 10 activations are all unique, each time you reinstall on the same system you will get the same key... no need to even call up or do it through the net... if you did not upgrade your hardware the same key you used before will work fine... if you do upgrade something you should get a different key, ms will give you (unofficially) 10 of those... there's no reason to ever pick up the phone, just let the software do it through the net... obviously the same goes for when you try to install on a different machine...
microsoft themselves are not yet sure how they want to handle the future activations of winxp... there's a huge backlash against the whole procedure, but they have to do something to prevent the widespread piracy... i recently went to russia whre you can buy any ms product bootleg for $5 in any computer store... piracy of their products is rampant... and i'm sure that there's a lot of people here that also use their "friend's" version of windows...
i hate to be the one defending ms... i think of them as nothing more than an evil monopoly... however, as a developer who has been working with their products for a long time, i can certainly understand why they're trying to do this...
overall winxp should be a great platform... it's a multikernel os, which should combine all the best features of the networking (win2k) and personal (winme) versions... it should be a great product sometime around this new year, when they work out all the release bugs...
sometime ago, when win2k came out, people were trashing it too, calling it the worst platform ever... i don't think that's the concensus anymore...
i have upgraded two companies with office XP in the last month... total of 400 users... i know it's not winxp but the activation process is the same...
i have not had to make one phone call... the activation was done through the internet...
my former company is a software development shop and we were working on integrating team services feature of office xp using sharepoint server and the office xp suite... we crashed and burned a lot of times and had to reinstall the product a LOT... not once did we have to call microsoft...
the 10 activations are all unique, each time you reinstall on the same system you will get the same key... no need to even call up or do it through the net... if you did not upgrade your hardware the same key you used before will work fine... if you do upgrade something you should get a different key, ms will give you (unofficially) 10 of those... there's no reason to ever pick up the phone, just let the software do it through the net... obviously the same goes for when you try to install on a different machine...
microsoft themselves are not yet sure how they want to handle the future activations of winxp... there's a huge backlash against the whole procedure, but they have to do something to prevent the widespread piracy... i recently went to russia whre you can buy any ms product bootleg for $5 in any computer store... piracy of their products is rampant... and i'm sure that there's a lot of people here that also use their "friend's" version of windows...
i hate to be the one defending ms... i think of them as nothing more than an evil monopoly... however, as a developer who has been working with their products for a long time, i can certainly understand why they're trying to do this...
overall winxp should be a great platform... it's a multikernel os, which should combine all the best features of the networking (win2k) and personal (winme) versions... it should be a great product sometime around this new year, when they work out all the release bugs...
sometime ago, when win2k came out, people were trashing it too, calling it the worst platform ever... i don't think that's the concensus anymore...
E
Eugene Powers
Guest
Anybody who flames his post is absolutely STUPID.
Stanton is right on all counts.
The only people who can break MS are us.
If nobody buys XP (that would be the day) MS would have no choice but to remove registration.
Unfortunately Apple is also stupid by not allowing to clone their MACs.
If they do now I bet a lot of people would switch to MAC.
Eugene Powers
Stanton is right on all counts.
The only people who can break MS are us.
If nobody buys XP (that would be the day) MS would have no choice but to remove registration.
Unfortunately Apple is also stupid by not allowing to clone their MACs.
If they do now I bet a lot of people would switch to MAC.
Eugene Powers
D
Dick-
Guest
Check the thread hiarchy...I was responding to ionuti or whatever he/she calls himself today...
stanton
Senior Member
Eugene,
As you recall, Apple did, albeit for a short time, allow clones. Actually they were pretty good. I remember working on a UMAX and recall no problems. Power Computing also had a decent clone, as did eMachines and a couple other lesser known companies. It was around 1995 or so, if memory serves.
Unfortunately, this was one of Apple's bleakest financial periods. I remember having heated arguements with some of my friends working IT jobs for large companies. "Don't buy Apple. They'll be out of business soon", they said. Though I didn't think it was that bleak, I couldn't help but be concerned at the time.
Shortly thereafter Apple rehired Steve Jobs, discontinued the clone licensing and set out to make the iMac. And though Apple has not had the fianacial success of Microsoft or Intel, they have been on fairly stable footing. I wish I knew why they discontinued the clone. It obviously wasn't working for them and they needed a different plan. Steve Jobs has a vision for Apple, though you and I really have no idea what it is. It couldn't possibly be quite as grandiose and totally self serving in scope as Bill Gates' plan.
IMO its not such a horrible thing not to have clones. Keeping the hardware and OS as part of a single package has allowed Apple to be freer in the OS development and implementation. Apple KNOWS that the OS will be used on THEIR machine and structure the price accordingly. They don't build in booby traps to insure that you don't take the OS that you got with machine X and attempt to put it in machine Y. FWIW, my Mac 7100 (circa 1994) came with OS 7.6, but has had OS 8.0, 8.1 and is now on 8.6. I could put 9.0 or 9.1 on it if I thought it would be stable. Additionally, you won't have to look through 6 sets of device drivers to find the correct one when you add a new device, though OS 9 and later did require different drivers because of the addition of Carbon.
I wish I knew why Apple discontinued licensing of their OS to clones, but it may be important to note that Apple's existance benefits PC users as well as Mac users. As long as you potentially have another choice, Bill Gates has to exercise some restraint. If Apple were out of the picture, theres no telling how much you'd have to pay for a Microsoft OS and how often you'd have to pay it.
Sincerely,
Stanton
As you recall, Apple did, albeit for a short time, allow clones. Actually they were pretty good. I remember working on a UMAX and recall no problems. Power Computing also had a decent clone, as did eMachines and a couple other lesser known companies. It was around 1995 or so, if memory serves.
Unfortunately, this was one of Apple's bleakest financial periods. I remember having heated arguements with some of my friends working IT jobs for large companies. "Don't buy Apple. They'll be out of business soon", they said. Though I didn't think it was that bleak, I couldn't help but be concerned at the time.
Shortly thereafter Apple rehired Steve Jobs, discontinued the clone licensing and set out to make the iMac. And though Apple has not had the fianacial success of Microsoft or Intel, they have been on fairly stable footing. I wish I knew why they discontinued the clone. It obviously wasn't working for them and they needed a different plan. Steve Jobs has a vision for Apple, though you and I really have no idea what it is. It couldn't possibly be quite as grandiose and totally self serving in scope as Bill Gates' plan.
IMO its not such a horrible thing not to have clones. Keeping the hardware and OS as part of a single package has allowed Apple to be freer in the OS development and implementation. Apple KNOWS that the OS will be used on THEIR machine and structure the price accordingly. They don't build in booby traps to insure that you don't take the OS that you got with machine X and attempt to put it in machine Y. FWIW, my Mac 7100 (circa 1994) came with OS 7.6, but has had OS 8.0, 8.1 and is now on 8.6. I could put 9.0 or 9.1 on it if I thought it would be stable. Additionally, you won't have to look through 6 sets of device drivers to find the correct one when you add a new device, though OS 9 and later did require different drivers because of the addition of Carbon.
I wish I knew why Apple discontinued licensing of their OS to clones, but it may be important to note that Apple's existance benefits PC users as well as Mac users. As long as you potentially have another choice, Bill Gates has to exercise some restraint. If Apple were out of the picture, theres no telling how much you'd have to pay for a Microsoft OS and how often you'd have to pay it.
Sincerely,
Stanton
Does is matter what name I call myself, "****"? Has any of my information or posts been inappropriate to that topic? Have I started any flame wars? I had the understanding that people in this forum were mature adults. Perhaps there is a teenager thread where you can rant.
If you call for help with Windows 2000, don't be surprised if you get me on the line. I don't like what MS management is trying to do with .Net or Windows XP. Therefore, I would definitely stick to Windows 2000, besides the fact that it has the features and stability needed and none of the "die open-source" junk marketing and mangement are cramming down the world's throat. XP is a domination move, not an OS imrpovement.
Lamer
If you call for help with Windows 2000, don't be surprised if you get me on the line. I don't like what MS management is trying to do with .Net or Windows XP. Therefore, I would definitely stick to Windows 2000, besides the fact that it has the features and stability needed and none of the "die open-source" junk marketing and mangement are cramming down the world's throat. XP is a domination move, not an OS imrpovement.
Lamer
BJN
Veteran Member
Apple's OSX with a Unix foundation doesn't need to be tied to a specific hardware platform. If Apple finally decides to really offer an alternative to Microsoft, they'll have to offer it up to the rest of us who don't want to pay Apple prices for hardware. Does Jobs have the huevos to really take up to battle or will Apple continue to offer a niche alternative that will always have limited success because of the pairing of harware and OS?
D
Dick-
Guest
I just don't believe you...as far as addressing the issue...HELL NO! And I work for Microsoft. ....what the hell does that address.
Ionuti
Ionuti
C Sprec
Well-known member
Here, Here,
Couldn’t put it better. Thanks bill for all that you've done for the PC but now you've got your fortune B----- O-- and leave us with a decent system ordered by merit not meritocracy.
Couldn’t put it better. Thanks bill for all that you've done for the PC but now you've got your fortune B----- O-- and leave us with a decent system ordered by merit not meritocracy.
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