Metz 70mz5 or SB800 for weddings ?

Hi All

I would like your advice…

I’m getting back into wedding photography after a long break. In the dim dark past I used a Mamiya 645 with Metz 60CT4. Having sold most of my gear (held onto my Nikon FA and lenses), this time I’m planning on buying the D2X as my principle camera (D70 as back-up) and I’m giving some thought to the flash.

I’m divided between going back to Metz or going with the SB800.

The 70MZ5 is handle mount (which I prefer to shoe-mount), is compatible with D-TTL, has I think around 0.5 to 1 stop more output, has a quick change battery pack system and is arguably more ‘substantial/professional’ in appearance (ie. big chunky flash that no amateur is likely to show up to the wedding with!).

Whereas, the SB800 has quicker cycle time, more flashes per battery charge, iTTL and wireless remote control of other SB600/800 units.

What do you think, if you were starting again, which way would you go?

Cheers
Mike

Mike,
I had the same problem.
I just went to Quatum T4.
And it has not been fun,I could shoot OK with TTL and the sb800.
Did not shoot auto or manual with sb800.
I needed some more power and a nicer light.
But the T4 does not work to well for Me with My D2h in TTL.
So I use auto( flash) and Manual.More time spent on setting then shooting.
And I sometimes miss a few.The Metz might work for you.
I would love to know.

Kenny

Mike005 said:

Hi All

I would like your advice…

I’m getting back into wedding photography after a long break. In
the dim dark past I used a Mamiya 645 with Metz 60CT4. Having sold
most of my gear (held onto my Nikon FA and lenses), this time I’m
planning on buying the D2X as my principle camera (D70 as back-up)
and I’m giving some thought to the flash.

I’m divided between going back to Metz or going with the SB800.

The 70MZ5 is handle mount (which I prefer to shoe-mount), is
compatible with D-TTL, has I think around 0.5 to 1 stop more
output, has a quick change battery pack system and is arguably more
‘substantial/professional’ in appearance (ie. big chunky flash that
no amateur is likely to show up to the wedding with!).

Whereas, the SB800 has quicker cycle time, more flashes per battery
charge, iTTL and wireless remote control of other SB600/800 units.

What do you think, if you were starting again, which way would you go?

Cheers
Mike

Click to expand...

--
NIKEN http://www.pbase.com/niken

Mike,

I also just decided on the Quantum system from the same choices. If for no other reason, I'm going with the Quantum because it seems that most wedding photogs either have it or would get it if it wasn't so expensive and I think that we all can't be wrong. I was just at a trade show today in Dayton, OH and talked with the Metz rep and the Quantum rep. The Quantum guy said that the i-TTL module for the Quantum T4d is in final testing and should be released soon. Additionally, I've read from many that they have good luck with it in auto mode and use that instead of the TTL mode. Personally, if I'm you and I've spent 5k on the body, and another 3k on lenses it only makes sense that I'd get the BEST light source available since getting the light right is arguably more important than the number of pixels in my shot. No sense in having 12.4 million underexposed megapixels.

Oh and the T4d recycles much faster, is much more powerful, and gets more shots per charge than a self powered SB-800. Unfortunately, the T4d and battery probably costs 3-4x the price of an SB-800 right now.

That's my 2 cents.
Shad

Niken said:

Kenny

Mike005 said:

Hi All

I would like your advice…

I’m getting back into wedding photography after a long break. In
the dim dark past I used a Mamiya 645 with Metz 60CT4. Having sold
most of my gear (held onto my Nikon FA and lenses), this time I’m
planning on buying the D2X as my principle camera (D70 as back-up)
and I’m giving some thought to the flash.

I’m divided between going back to Metz or going with the SB800.

The 70MZ5 is handle mount (which I prefer to shoe-mount), is
compatible with D-TTL, has I think around 0.5 to 1 stop more
output, has a quick change battery pack system and is arguably more
‘substantial/professional’ in appearance (ie. big chunky flash that
no amateur is likely to show up to the wedding with!).

Whereas, the SB800 has quicker cycle time, more flashes per battery
charge, iTTL and wireless remote control of other SB600/800 units.

What do you think, if you were starting again, which way would you go?

Cheers
Mike

Click to expand...

--
NIKEN http://www.pbase.com/niken

Click to expand...

Mike,

I love those Metzs'. Started with a 402 many years ago and used it with a Mamyia C330. Then a 60 CT1 and now the CT4. All great flashes.

When I got more serious with digital the photo store guy handed me Nikon 28dx something and I soon learned to use it in the A mode. I was hooked on the Nikon flashes.

Much better exposures than Metz, and easier to carry. I looking to get a D2h and sb800 soon and I may even use it in the TTL mode.

JS

Mike005 said:

Hi All

I would like your advice…

I’m getting back into wedding photography after a long break. In
the dim dark past I used a Mamiya 645 with Metz 60CT4. Having sold
most of my gear (held onto my Nikon FA and lenses), this time I’m
planning on buying the D2X as my principle camera (D70 as back-up)
and I’m giving some thought to the flash.

I’m divided between going back to Metz or going with the SB800.

Click to expand...

It is quite simple - if you need automation and speed, go with sb800 units, if you need raw power - get 70mz5, if you need power and some automation - get Quantum. All that probably matters more if you'll need a multi unut setup, for a single flash it's not such a big deal.

Quantum system requires bigger budget but probably is a best investment.

--
Best regards from UPVStudio Photography, http://www.upvstudio.com

I use SB800's with D100's and D2h's. Soon I'll use them with the D2x. The ability to use multiple SB800's without cords is great. One for the camera, 2 can be in an umbrella or placed in corners. More than enough power.

I use Metz flashes with my Leica gear, great flashes but nothing like using SB800's when you need TTL, i-TTL.

The SB800 does suck batteries down. But, I'd rather use AA's instead of a battery pack.

Chris
http://www.zoeicaimages.com

Mike005 said:

Hi All

I would like your advice…

I’m getting back into wedding photography after a long break. In
the dim dark past I used a Mamiya 645 with Metz 60CT4. Having sold
most of my gear (held onto my Nikon FA and lenses), this time I’m
planning on buying the D2X as my principle camera (D70 as back-up)
and I’m giving some thought to the flash.

I’m divided between going back to Metz or going with the SB800.

The 70MZ5 is handle mount (which I prefer to shoe-mount), is
compatible with D-TTL, has I think around 0.5 to 1 stop more
output, has a quick change battery pack system and is arguably more
‘substantial/professional’ in appearance (ie. big chunky flash that
no amateur is likely to show up to the wedding with!).

Whereas, the SB800 has quicker cycle time, more flashes per battery
charge, iTTL and wireless remote control of other SB600/800 units.

What do you think, if you were starting again, which way would you go?

Cheers
Mike

Click to expand...

I am simply amazed by how well my SB800 works. I used to use handle-mount systems, and I do sometimes miss the power, but the accuracy, recycle speed, and flexibility of the SB800 is much better than my old system.

And the thing that blows me away every time I use it is the iTTL wireless multi-flash system. I use an SB600 as a second light at weddings, and it is fantastic - I'm planning on adding one or two more.

Until Quantum/Metz offer this ability in their ittl module, I wouldn't even consider switching to them.

Thanks all for your replies.

The Quantum looks very good but at around AUS$4000, it is 3x the cost of the Metz and 4x the cost of the SB800, and with multiple flashes to buy to complete the lighting set, the extra cost would seriously implact my business plan.

I have a one or two months before I have to take the plunge, so I think I will give Metz a little longer to announce/release an iTTL compatible 70 series flash and then do a final pros & cons comparrison on all features. Failing this, I think I'll commit to the SB series.

Thanks again

Mike

Mike005 said:

Thanks all for your replies.

The Quantum looks very good but at around AUS$4000, it is 3x the
cost of the Metz and 4x the cost of the SB800, and with multiple
flashes to buy to complete the lighting set, the extra cost would
seriously implact my business plan.

I have a one or two months before I have to take the plunge, so I
think I will give Metz a little longer to announce/release an iTTL
compatible 70 series flash and then do a final pros & cons
comparrison on all features. Failing this, I think I'll commit to
the SB series.

Thanks again

Mike

Click to expand...

Mike:

I've recently updated my Metz 60 and 45 lineup to a 70MZ-5 and two 50MZ-5s. I shoot with a Mamiya 645 and a D70. The iTTL module for the D70 is the 3402 M3. Note: You MUST have the M3 version. Its the latest one and, the last I checked, wasn't even on the Metz website yet as an iTTL module. Nonetheless, it works perfectly for iTTL with the D70 and, I assume, the D2H etc.

I use the Metz 70 on the D70 and one of the 50's as a wireless slave for a second light. (I shoot everything but the candids with a two-light system)

You should be aware, however, that iTTL with the Metz system will NOT work with wireless slaves. It will ONLY work with a single camera-mounted flash.

When using a two-light system, you must switch to Auto mode on the Metz. This allows for one or more wireless slaves but, as I said, it won't be iTTL. The Auto mode actually works very well so this isn't much of a problem. The real downside of the system is that you CANNOT set up ratios with the wireless Auto mode. (A work-around that I use is to point the main light directly towards the subject and use a reflector card on the camera mounted fill flash. This will give you about a 3:1 lighting ratio)

So, if you need lots of light, go with the Metz. If you want easy and very versatile creative lighting, go with the SB800. Just be aware that you'll need more than just two for many wedding situations.

Incidently, the recharge rate of the Metz hasn't been a problem at all. I recently rebuilt the battery pack using the largest NiMHi batteries that I could get and the recharge time for a full power flash is 4 seconds. (You get nearly 200 full power flashes with these batteries too) Most of your shots won't be anywhere near full power so you can shoot pretty much as fast as you want and never worry about the recharge.

I shot a wedding last week with the Metz 70 mounted on the D70 and got just over 300 flashes on one battery pack. This varies, of course, with the specific lighting requirements encountered.

Hope this helps,

Larry

Thanks for that Larry, good news and much appreciated.

Its a shame about wireless TTL though. Would you mind letting me know about other features that are the same/different with the SB800. In particular, does it have High speed sync (for shutter speeds greater than camera sync speed)?

Cheers
Mike

Mike005 said:

Thanks for that Larry, good news and much appreciated.

Its a shame about wireless TTL though. Would you mind letting me
know about other features that are the same/different with the
SB800. In particular, does it have High speed sync (for shutter
speeds greater than camera sync speed)?

Cheers
Mike

Click to expand...

Hi Mike:

Can't help you much with the HSS. I,ve never had occasion to use it. I checked the manual for the 3402 module and it seems to indicate that it is possible but I can't get it to work. Could be operator trouble or ANOTHER mistake in the manual.

You should also be aware that the Metz and Nikon flashes will not talk to each other. Once you've chosen a system, your stuck with it.

I experimented recently with the wireless system outdoors as I have a sports shoot (athlete portraits) coming up soon. Again, I shoot most everything except candids with a two light sytem. It was necessary to turn the body of the slave toward the on camera controller flash in order to work. Once that was done, it worked extremely well, even with the sensor of the slave pointing almost directly at the sun.

I mention this becasue the ability to do outdoor shots using fill flash is critical to wedding photography, as you know. Also, the D70 is able to sync up to 1/500th of a second. This is allowed with the Metz system as well. I assume that the D2X will also sync at this speed, but you might want to check on that.

Regarding slaves: There are several Metz units which will function as wireless slaves with the 70MZ-5. Some need a wireless module, some do not. According to the 70's manual, those which do not need the module are the 50 MZ-5, the 70 MZ-5, and the 34 CS-2. There may be others which have been released subsequent to the printing of my manual-check the Metz web sight. I chose to go with the (no longer made) 50 MZ-5 because of it doesn't need the wireless module and, more importantly, its power. According to the 50 MZ-5's manual, it has exactly the same guide numbers as the 70. To use them as wireless slaves you simply unplug he controller and turn it on. On the controller, you select one of two channels and fire the flash once to establish communications with the slave.

I use two cameras at weddings, a MF film and the D70. Each camera has its own 50 or 70 mounted to it. The slave, mounted on a light stand, will then fire with either camera without needing to reprogram it. It is a system which works well, except for the inablility to set ratios.

Good luck in making your decision,

Larry

Thanks Larry much appreciated.

Mike005 said:

Thanks Larry much appreciated.

Click to expand...

You're most welcome. Let me know what you decide to go with.

Larry