I am sure those who mastered their camera and technique would be glad for a new model regardless of whether they need it or not...but those who is yet know how to get a decent pictures out of their 1ds would not be glad...
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Why I am glad there is no new Sigma SD on the matket?
- Thread starter Lubomir
- Start date
Lubomir
Member
Lillrobert,
My practical point is that if I spend $1500 on new body is not because I want to use it for only 1-2 years and then try to sell it for 1/3 the orig. price just because there is a new model out.
My emotional point is that we should enjoy more our great Sigmas. Study them and use them as often you can.
I know this is hard for most of us but please try to understand, better camera (digital or film) does not make You a better photographer.
My practical point is that if I spend $1500 on new body is not because I want to use it for only 1-2 years and then try to sell it for 1/3 the orig. price just because there is a new model out.
My emotional point is that we should enjoy more our great Sigmas. Study them and use them as often you can.
I know this is hard for most of us but please try to understand, better camera (digital or film) does not make You a better photographer.
I would rather compare Sigma with Apple computers.
http://www.studiolipov.com
Petros35
Senior Member
I really don't give a rat's a$$ whether Canon users jump over to Sigma or not. If they were serious about their photography in a quality sense, they would already own a Sigma - and many do.
I can't speak for the others, but I'll say this - I don't regret my decision (made in July, 2004) to buy an SD9. Why? Because I believed then, and know now that in my case this camera already replaces film. I can use it for offset printing and for bigger enlargements than I can even get done locally (A4).
In answer to the other question, I would say that there are many Canon users who were disappointed with their cheaper/older Canons once the EOS-1Ds Mk.II was released. That's part of what makes me feel good about owning a Sigma. They're not making my camera obsolete every time some photo magazine farts a "What's new for 200x" issue.
--
Peter Argyropoulos
Tom Rowland
Veteran Member
I agree. I was hoping to get a new Sigma with a bigger better sensor, faster frame rate, faster ISO, and the ability to use 2 or 10 sec delay with MLU. These are real features that would allow me to take better pix, even if I still have the same lousy photography skills I have now.
Dont kid yourself, the 120-300 was a great lens for me to buy. Not because it made me a better photographer, but because it allowed me to capture better pix with the skills I already have.
I am very happy with the images my SD10 produces, but I have missed images of quickly moving wildlife that a faster frame rate would have allowed me to capture. I have some soft images that would be sharper if I could bump up the ISO in dusk or dawn conditions. I have some soft images of the moon that would be sharper if I could select MLU and then use a 10 sec delay and the remote release.
I suspect I would have better images with a bigger Foveon sensor because my meager PS skill would not be taxed more.
If you do a forum search you can find post by Lin that not only praise Sigmas, but also point out images from a 1D that a Sigma would never be able to capture. And I have seen plenty of Lins images that convince me he has photography skills I can only dream about.
The SD10 is a great camera, but it could be much better; and that is what I want. And I want it sooner, not later.
Dont kid yourself, the 120-300 was a great lens for me to buy. Not because it made me a better photographer, but because it allowed me to capture better pix with the skills I already have.
I am very happy with the images my SD10 produces, but I have missed images of quickly moving wildlife that a faster frame rate would have allowed me to capture. I have some soft images that would be sharper if I could bump up the ISO in dusk or dawn conditions. I have some soft images of the moon that would be sharper if I could select MLU and then use a 10 sec delay and the remote release.
I suspect I would have better images with a bigger Foveon sensor because my meager PS skill would not be taxed more.
If you do a forum search you can find post by Lin that not only praise Sigmas, but also point out images from a 1D that a Sigma would never be able to capture. And I have seen plenty of Lins images that convince me he has photography skills I can only dream about.
The SD10 is a great camera, but it could be much better; and that is what I want. And I want it sooner, not later.
Peter Spader
Veteran Member
This particular either/or should not be pushed too far or we can lose our balance.
As the original post suggested we should never become so consumed by anticipation of the next improvement in our equipment we forget to enjoy what we now have and what it allows us to do (and, as I agreed above, not spending money on a new body every six months allows us to spend money on lens, etc.)
But at the same time we can look forward with hope and anticipation for improvements, since there is very little in this world that is perfect. I expect Foveon will continue to work, Sigma will continue to work, and together they will come out with a new camera in their good time. Polaroid will get the x530 to the stores and it will be good, and someday they will come out with an improved version. Indeed, I expect some other manufacturers may well join the fun as well.
So let's enjoy what we have and also enjoy some modest anticipations as well. But keep your balance.
Pete
As the original post suggested we should never become so consumed by anticipation of the next improvement in our equipment we forget to enjoy what we now have and what it allows us to do (and, as I agreed above, not spending money on a new body every six months allows us to spend money on lens, etc.)
But at the same time we can look forward with hope and anticipation for improvements, since there is very little in this world that is perfect. I expect Foveon will continue to work, Sigma will continue to work, and together they will come out with a new camera in their good time. Polaroid will get the x530 to the stores and it will be good, and someday they will come out with an improved version. Indeed, I expect some other manufacturers may well join the fun as well.
So let's enjoy what we have and also enjoy some modest anticipations as well. But keep your balance.
Pete
David Hughes
Senior Member
I think you said it very well. Improve your technique... yes. There is always room for this.
Well said.
Support - http://www.foveonx3.org
Gallery- http://david.oldcolo.com/gallery/sd9
Pbase - http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/
Well said.
--
Support - http://www.foveonx3.org
Gallery- http://david.oldcolo.com/gallery/sd9
Pbase - http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/
It is not that simple. Yes, the lack of a new SD-11 eliminates the upgrade cycle many equipment junkies ^H^H^H^H^H^H (erm.. cough..) photographers go through. However, you must also consider the market impact. There hasn't been a peep from Sigma for ages now. There are no new SD mount bodies, either film or digital. Not a single camera store I've seen stocks any SD mount gear. There's no information from the company either.
In the mean time, other companies are releasing new cameras on a daily basis. Yes I very well understand it's just a little tweak here and ther, slap on a new name label and market it as the greatest gift to mankind. Most people see it this way and swallow this drivel, and part with their hard earned cash for the next meaningless incremental improvement. Still, it shows that these other companies are going strong and have serious dough invested in this business. It has got to a point where people question whether Sigma really wants to be in the DSLR business at all.
This makes a great deal of difference if you want to invest in a DSLR system. If you are looking at serious gear like long teles and fast zooms, that's a lot of money. I sure wouldn't want to spend $10,000 on a system just to have the company discontinue if after a couple of years. For those investing in Nikon and Canon systems, and to a lesser extent on Pentax DSLR's, these companies show a very strong presence, and have been around for decades, and this gives the photographer the confidence that they will be around to support the user for a long time to come. Not so with Sigma.
Hence, this is not a good move on Sigma's part.
In the mean time, other companies are releasing new cameras on a daily basis. Yes I very well understand it's just a little tweak here and ther, slap on a new name label and market it as the greatest gift to mankind. Most people see it this way and swallow this drivel, and part with their hard earned cash for the next meaningless incremental improvement. Still, it shows that these other companies are going strong and have serious dough invested in this business. It has got to a point where people question whether Sigma really wants to be in the DSLR business at all.
This makes a great deal of difference if you want to invest in a DSLR system. If you are looking at serious gear like long teles and fast zooms, that's a lot of money. I sure wouldn't want to spend $10,000 on a system just to have the company discontinue if after a couple of years. For those investing in Nikon and Canon systems, and to a lesser extent on Pentax DSLR's, these companies show a very strong presence, and have been around for decades, and this gives the photographer the confidence that they will be around to support the user for a long time to come. Not so with Sigma.
Hence, this is not a good move on Sigma's part.
Lubomir
Member
Why we choose Sigma on the first place?
Becouse of the picture quality of sensor. Right? Not becouse Sigma is a big name camera company found on every camera store in the planet, or makes the best lenses in the world.
So we already new that Canon, Nikon, Olympus...... will deliver more advanced cameras more frequently. Action photographers and reporters don't buy Sigmas. They choose big names. We choose quality images for les $.
For me is simple. I know I still nave the best quality in the class, so my Sigma was a good value then and now.
Choose what is right for You! Isn't that simple?
Becouse of the picture quality of sensor. Right? Not becouse Sigma is a big name camera company found on every camera store in the planet, or makes the best lenses in the world.
So we already new that Canon, Nikon, Olympus...... will deliver more advanced cameras more frequently. Action photographers and reporters don't buy Sigmas. They choose big names. We choose quality images for les $.
For me is simple. I know I still nave the best quality in the class, so my Sigma was a good value then and now.
Choose what is right for You! Isn't that simple?
Exactly.
Ok, what camera could allow you to do that, then?
Of the same price range, of course.
No they wouldn't. Higher ISO inevitably makes image less sharp. Added noise reduction does it further. That's right not only for Sigma, but for all DSLRs as well.
Set MLU. Press button on remote release once. MLU will be activated. Now wait 10 seconds and press button on remote release once again. Easy.
Agreed here. Bigger sensor. But I rarely print even A4.
I want it too.
Lillrobert
Forum Enthusiast
We want a camera in the same pricerange that can do so, or at least is better than todays SDXX cameras. That is why the development must continue!
Same answer again. Maybe a new and improved camera would be able to do that.
Lillrobert
Forum Enthusiast
You will still be able to use your SDxx, you don´t have to sell it! The camera will still be as good as it is today. Compare with canon: There is many EOS 300D users that happily uses their cameras even if canon has showed new models.
No one has claimed a new camera will make you a better photographer. But a new camera will give you new possibilities. A new camera would give sigma new resourses to develop new products for both sigma cameras and oter cameras.
Lillrobert
Forum Enthusiast
Yes, and many people wants somthing more advanced than the SD9/10.
rsub8
Member
Yes, I hear you, and this sort of thing isn’t unique to photographic equipment. Just take a trip to the supermarket. Sigmas’s marketing is no slouch when it comes to their lenses. So no doubt if that marketing muscle could be used on the SD series (they just need to open the tap a tiny bit), their customer base could expand tremendously, and this would feed back into more timely improvements for the line.
I see an inherent conflict of interest situation here. I suspect that the bulk of Sigma’s bottom line comes from supplying third party glass for Bayer sensor cameras, so it would be a cut to that division to promote the SD10. At first glance, SD sales poaching sales of glass from the aftermarket for other DSLRs might go 1:1, so, at least on the surface, this argument loses its steam. I am not a profressional marketeer, so I don’t have knowledge of all the marketing forces that go into a pot like this. But keep in mind that Nikon, Canon, etc. only make glass for their own cameras. Sigma makes their own cameras, AND glass for everyone’s. Maybe there is something to that worth thinking about.
I have worked for a few quite large companies, and know people that work for a certain mega-company (hint: who owns a major television network and just about everything else?) and that internal rivalries and politics are unavoidable, and can scuttle a project seen as taking a piece of the others’ pie, with no regard to the overall benefit of the Company. Otherwise known as C.Y.A.
I don’t know the relationship between Sigma and Foveon. If Sigma has an exclusive on DSLR applications (I know about Polaroid) usage of the Foveon chip, that could result in a potentially bad situation if it were perceived that Sigma’s technology might significantly threaten the big boys. It might just make economic sense for all concerned to put it down. Or give it another sandbox (Polaroid?) to play in.
These thoughts are just my OPINION, mind you, based on insights from observing the inner workings of, and interactions between, large companies.
That is a nice invitation.we love to see you join us in this forum too...
I’m a bit taken aback by the undercurrent of brand rivalry in this thread, though. (And I thought Apple vs. PC arguments got nasty!) But our cameras are merely tools, used for taking photographs. I own eight cameras from four different manufacturers, I still enjoy using each of them, and I sincerely hope that Sigma will be one of them in the future. Cheers.Magic halley
Active member
Yes,
and some people are not willing to do RAW! They are only waiting for a JPeg-Version SDxx
Andreas
and some people are not willing to do RAW! They are only waiting for a JPeg-Version SDxx
Andreas
Each new product upgrade generates waves on the second-hand market, it allows more folks to join to the bandwagon. Sigma misses the vivid second-hand market for SA mount lens and cameras, which is a major drawback for each of us. The lot of fuss about M42 and K mount lens is a sad news for Sigma, as the new posts about Canon lens modification are. A simple service, where they charge a moderate fee to change the mount plate on used Sigma lens to SA could solve this problem easily.
Chunsum J Choi
Veteran Member
don't worry about those guys. you'll learn to ignore them.Yes, I hear you, and this sort of thing isn’t unique to
photographic equipment. Just take a trip to the supermarket.
Sigmas’s marketing is no slouch when it comes to their lenses. So
no doubt if that marketing muscle could be used on the SD series
(they just need to open the tap a tiny bit), their customer base
could expand tremendously, and this would feed back into more
timely improvements for the line.
I see an inherent conflict of interest situation here. I suspect
that the bulk of Sigma’s bottom line comes from supplying third
party glass for Bayer sensor cameras, so it would be a cut to that
division to promote the SD10. At first glance, SD sales poaching
sales of glass from the aftermarket for other DSLRs might go 1:1,
so, at least on the surface, this argument loses its steam. I am
not a profressional marketeer, so I don’t have knowledge of all the
marketing forces that go into a pot like this. But keep in mind
that Nikon, Canon, etc. only make glass for their own cameras.
Sigma makes their own cameras, AND glass for everyone’s. Maybe
there is something to that worth thinking about.
I have worked for a few quite large companies, and know people that
work for a certain mega-company (hint: who owns a major television
network and just about everything else?) and that internal
rivalries and politics are unavoidable, and can scuttle a project
seen as taking a piece of the others’ pie, with no regard to the
overall benefit of the Company. Otherwise known as C.Y.A.
I don’t know the relationship between Sigma and Foveon. If Sigma
has an exclusive on DSLR applications (I know about Polaroid)
usage of the Foveon chip, that could result in a potentially bad
situation if it were perceived that Sigma’s technology might
significantly threaten the big boys. It might just make economic
sense for all concerned to put it down. Or give it another sandbox
(Polaroid?) to play in.
These thoughts are just my OPINION, mind you, based on insights
from observing the inner workings of, and interactions between,
large companies.
That is a nice invitation.we love to see you join us in this forum too...
undercurrent of brand rivalry in this thread, though.
--
Chunsum.
It's easy, all you have to do is BELIEVE.
http://www.pbase.com/chunsum
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9
http://www.foveonx3.org
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