The End Of Nikon

David Mazeau · Feb 17, 2005

Brand name recognition is an important asset. Hanging a big black
DSLR that says "Nikon" on it will still impress the neighbor nextdoor,
that doesn't follow these issues as carefully.

It will be another 2 or 3, or 5 or 6, years before the neighbor
nextdoor finds out the name "Nikon" is less valued than the name
"Canon".

And so that presents enough time for the engineers at Sony and
Nikon to get their act together, and start putting equal or
superior digital imaging systems in big black DSLR bodies.

But they better hurry up. The boat is starting to rev up its engines.

Otherwise the asset, that the name "Nikon" is, will go bad.

And, of course, in the pro market, the shift has already been made.
Show up wearing "Nikon", and one will be slightly looked down
upon. But give Nikon one killer camera, that everybody is talking
about, and everybody will be glancing over their shoulder to
see if that guy real does have "one of those new Nikon 7XZ bodies",
or whatever it will be called.

T3 · Feb 17, 2005

Geoman said:
1st, untill now the d70 was a MUCH better camera then the 300D..
Now canon has one-uped nikon.. Nikon will up them in 6-12 months..
No big deal.. If the new Canon was 8MP and $600, then I would say
something different..

In the low end market, price is a big factor, and the Digital Rebel has been a great bargain for the tyro just getting into DSLR. Plus, Canon has huge market penetration in the low end. You go to Costco, or Sam's Club and there's the Digital Rebel, but no D70.

Now go up a notch to the $1500 price point and Nikon is still peddling the ancient D100 against the 20D. No contest there. Even D100 owners will recommend you go with a 20D or D70.

And of course, you've already mentioned the beating Nikon has taken in the pro segment.

As for Nikon's production cycles ("Nikon will up them in 6-12 months"), they seem to run three years between product replacement. They've yet to replace the D100, which came out in 2002. They are just replacing the D1X now, which came out in 2001. The D1H came out in 2001, but it seems that Nikon didn't get its replacement right the first time, so the D2H "s" (maybe for "second try") is being introduced. I don't think the D70 will be replaced for at least a year, which is a long time to be outsold by the XT. At least the DReb had the advantage of being the cheapest DSLR on the market, as well as having the entry-level market all to themselves for about half its lifespan.

Hopefully Nikon will be able to turn things around and get back up to speed. Because it looks like fewer and fewer people are waiting around for them. Canon sure isn't.

T3 · Feb 17, 2005

And Kodak is a mess. They are a shadow of what they were just a decade ago.

David Mazeau said:
Brand name recognition is an important asset. Hanging a big black
DSLR that says "Nikon" on it will still impress the neighbor nextdoor,
that doesn't follow these issues as carefully.

It will be another 2 or 3, or 5 or 6, years before the neighbor
nextdoor finds out the name "Nikon" is less valued than the name
"Canon".

And so that presents enough time for the engineers at Sony and
Nikon to get their act together, and start putting equal or
superior digital imaging systems in big black DSLR bodies.

But they better hurry up. The boat is starting to rev up its engines.

Otherwise the asset, that the name "Nikon" is, will go bad.

And, of course, in the pro market, the shift has already been made.
Show up wearing "Nikon", and one will be slightly looked down
upon. But give Nikon one killer camera, that everybody is talking
about, and everybody will be glancing over their shoulder to
see if that guy real does have "one of those new Nikon 7XZ bodies",
or whatever it will be called.

scottjj · Feb 17, 2005

Some people just can't feel like winners unless some other party loses big. How sad.

Eugene Powers · Feb 17, 2005

It was 946M for Canon and 13.4M for Nikon last thing I heard.

Redcrown said:
Look at recent Q4 financials:

Canon $795 million net income, up 17%
Nikon $245 million net income, up 28.7%
Nikon ROE beats Canon.

Both companies rolling in cash, hardly dead.

If you want a good camera, buy Canon. If you want a good
investment, buy Nikon. If you plan to die young, buy Kodak.

--
Eugene

Canon is the best when it is working. Sigma is the same way now.

waterskier · Feb 18, 2005

NikonJapan777 said:
why is it not good at eitrher. Every report I have read days it
does well at both!

I never said that the D2X wasn't a good camera or that it couldn't do both studio or sports work. I would love to own a D2X. What I said was that Canon's specialized cameras have an advantage in each area for reasons I specified. The D2X "tweener" may very well do a respectable job in both arenas, and as you mentioned an experienced photographer will make whatever equipment he owns shine.

However for the money, I would get a 1D mkII with all of it's speed and 1.3 x multiplier rather than spending more for the D2X or 1Ds mkII.

For now I will learn what I can with my lowly D70.

NikonJapan777 said:
waterskier said:

NikonJapan777 said:

actually the crop mode is 6.7 MP. Can you really show anyone the
difference between 6.7 and 8 MP?? Try it and see.

Click to expand...

Not much, no. But the difference between 8MP with large photosites
and better high ISO performance and 6.7 MP with smaller photosites
and noisier high ISO performance will be noticable.

NikonJapan777 said:

I welcome some fun competition. All this drama between the forums
is quite funny. I wish we could get all the real shooters from
both forums and have some fun posting images.

Click to expand...

Hey I own a Nikon D70 and I am still learning how to maximize what
I can get out of it. Honestly I think I "technically" know what I
am supposed to be doing, but in the field I am still making too
many mistakes.

BTW I like your picture. Nice background blurring, composure,
contrast and detail.

But that has nothing to do with my opinion on the technical
superiority of the 1Ds mkII and the 1D mkII over the "tweener" D2X
which isn't quite as good at either.

I will also give you that many an experienced photographer would
very frequently be able to get better results than I would even if
I had a superior camera. No arguement on that point at all!

Click to expand...

Bernie Ess · Feb 18, 2005

scottjj said:
Some people just can't feel like winners unless some other party
loses big. How sad.

Feeling like a winner because of a camera brand is anyway something only loosers do.

You hand over the credit card, they make money on you, every 12 or 16 months, you consumers pay their billls.

regards,
Bernie

NikonJapan777 · Feb 18, 2005

The D2X "tweener" may very well do a respectable job in both arenas, and as you mentioned an experienced photographer will make whatever equipment he owns shine.
waterskier wrote:
it does not just a repsectable job but a very good job at both.

waterskier said:
NikonJapan777 said:

why is it not good at eitrher. Every report I have read days it
does well at both!

Click to expand...

I never said that the D2X wasn't a good camera or that it couldn't
do both studio or sports work. I would love to own a D2X. What I
said was that Canon's specialized cameras have an advantage in each
area for reasons I specified. The D2X "tweener" may very well do a
respectable job in both arenas, and as you mentioned an experienced
photographer will make whatever equipment he owns shine.

However for the money, I would get a 1D mkII with all of it's speed
and 1.3 x multiplier rather than spending more for the D2X or 1Ds
mkII.

For now I will learn what I can with my lowly D70.

waterskier said:

waterskier said:

NikonJapan777 said:

actually the crop mode is 6.7 MP. Can you really show anyone the
difference between 6.7 and 8 MP?? Try it and see.

Click to expand...

Not much, no. But the difference between 8MP with large photosites
and better high ISO performance and 6.7 MP with smaller photosites
and noisier high ISO performance will be noticable.

waterskier said:

I welcome some fun competition. All this drama between the forums
is quite funny. I wish we could get all the real shooters from
both forums and have some fun posting images.

Click to expand...

Hey I own a Nikon D70 and I am still learning how to maximize what
I can get out of it. Honestly I think I "technically" know what I
am supposed to be doing, but in the field I am still making too
many mistakes.

BTW I like your picture. Nice background blurring, composure,
contrast and detail.

But that has nothing to do with my opinion on the technical
superiority of the 1Ds mkII and the 1D mkII over the "tweener" D2X
which isn't quite as good at either.

I will also give you that many an experienced photographer would
very frequently be able to get better results than I would even if
I had a superior camera. No arguement on that point at all!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Sense Leo · Feb 18, 2005

Competition will benefit us to get cheaper and more advanced cameras !
--
Sense the world

Descot · Feb 18, 2005

Why is this the end of Nikon...

I have always bought and used Canon right from the days they introduced the EF system. This is is a system that I feel very comfortable with and yes competition is healthy but this should not bring down any opposition.

The mine is better than yours thinking is incorrect...taking pictures should be what rules.

I do not knock anyone that uses another system, it is their choice to use that.

Let the pictures count.

--
descot

http://www.descot.com

mcvector · Feb 18, 2005

A tale of two brothers.

Nikon and Canon...

***********************************************

Those who are fools who knows they are fools are considered to be wise to an extend.
Those who are fools who think they are wise men are the real fools.

http://www.vectorlab.co.uk

paul simon · Feb 18, 2005

Get a double aspirin and go to bed.

Morihei said:
Once upon a time there lived a great, great company named, "Nikon".
Nikon use to make the cameras that all the professional
photographers used. They used them in the leading fashion
magazines, they used them in the leading newspapers, they even
took them to war. For many, many years they ruled the land. One day
digital was invented and everybody told Nikon to be smart otherwise
their enemies, "Canon" would destroy them.

Nikon tried but stumbled and Canon surged ahead in the race to
design, build and deliver a better product. The pros quickly
switched to Canon and everyone else in the world followed. Now just
a few lonely, angry people continue to wait for Nikon to catch up.
Everybody tells them to come over to our side, we welcome them with
beautiful cameras, with low noise and sharp images, its fun. The
Canon people all stand and watch the house of Nikon burn down. Its
a sad day, no one wants to see suffering like this. Once a great
behemoth, now reduced to nothing. A very sad ending yes indeed. So
to all Nikon folks over there crying and suffering, come over to
our side , we want you here with us, we are good people and we will
be your new friends.

Geffrard Bourke · Feb 18, 2005

Morihei said:
Once upon a time there lived a great, great company named, "Nikon".
Nikon use to make the cameras that all the professional
photographers used. They used them in the leading fashion
magazines, they used them in the leading newspapers, they even
took them to war. For many, many years they ruled the land. One day
digital was invented and everybody told Nikon to be smart otherwise
their enemies, "Canon" would destroy them.

Nikon tried but stumbled and Canon surged ahead in the race to
design, build and deliver a better product. The pros quickly
switched to Canon and everyone else in the world followed. Now just
a few lonely, angry people continue to wait for Nikon to catch up.
Everybody tells them to come over to our side, we welcome them with
beautiful cameras, with low noise and sharp images, its fun. The
Canon people all stand and watch the house of Nikon burn down. Its
a sad day, no one wants to see suffering like this. Once a great
behemoth, now reduced to nothing. A very sad ending yes indeed. So
to all Nikon folks over there crying and suffering, come over to
our side , we want you here with us, we are good people and we will
be your new friends.

Morihei, you are a stupid stupid idiot. Stop wasting every ones time. Moron!
--
Thanks
Geff Bourke

andrea buso · Feb 18, 2005

A part that selling few thousand more or less of high end DSRL per months, will not change much in the life of both companies, since they big money are made elsewhere, things might look different in few weeks time. At least from our point of view of people interested in using DSRL.
This is just third hand information:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=12302999

but I had others good reports about the D2x and we might be very surprised and possibly change our perspective in: FF, bigger photsites, smalle equal more noise etc. Things keeps changing.
Hopefully we will have more valid products to choose from.

I use the 1ds, 20d, Kodak and I'm very happy with all of them. I would take a D2x too if it is that good. No problem at all.

Cheers.
A.

Morihei said:
Once upon a time there lived a great, great company named, "Nikon".
Nikon use to make the cameras that all the professional
photographers used. They used them in the leading fashion
magazines, they used them in the leading newspapers, they even
took them to war. For many, many years they ruled the land. One day
digital was invented and everybody told Nikon to be smart otherwise
their enemies, "Canon" would destroy them.

Nikon tried but stumbled and Canon surged ahead in the race to
design, build and deliver a better product. The pros quickly
switched to Canon and everyone else in the world followed. Now just
a few lonely, angry people continue to wait for Nikon to catch up.
Everybody tells them to come over to our side, we welcome them with
beautiful cameras, with low noise and sharp images, its fun. The
Canon people all stand and watch the house of Nikon burn down. Its
a sad day, no one wants to see suffering like this. Once a great
behemoth, now reduced to nothing. A very sad ending yes indeed. So
to all Nikon folks over there crying and suffering, come over to
our side , we want you here with us, we are good people and we will
be your new friends.

Dick Ginkowski · Feb 18, 2005

While I've been a Canon user for over 25 years, I appreciate Nikon. Without the competition -- and there ARE things Nikon still does BETTER (like flash, for instance) -- Canon's products wouldn't be as good as they are. So let's celebrate the competition.

Daffy_Duck · Feb 18, 2005

I usually don't get involved in these camera brand wars but I just want to say that I hope Nikon does well. If Nikon were to tank, that would mean fewer choices for us consumers and probably higher prices and less innovation. We all benefit from competition between Canon and Nikon.

Morihei said:
Once upon a time there lived a great, great company named, "Nikon".
Nikon use to make the cameras that all the professional
photographers used. They used them in the leading fashion
magazines, they used them in the leading newspapers, they even
took them to war. For many, many years they ruled the land. One day
digital was invented and everybody told Nikon to be smart otherwise
their enemies, "Canon" would destroy them.

Nikon tried but stumbled and Canon surged ahead in the race to
design, build and deliver a better product. The pros quickly
switched to Canon and everyone else in the world followed. Now just
a few lonely, angry people continue to wait for Nikon to catch up.
Everybody tells them to come over to our side, we welcome them with
beautiful cameras, with low noise and sharp images, its fun. The
Canon people all stand and watch the house of Nikon burn down. Its
a sad day, no one wants to see suffering like this. Once a great
behemoth, now reduced to nothing. A very sad ending yes indeed. So
to all Nikon folks over there crying and suffering, come over to
our side , we want you here with us, we are good people and we will
be your new friends.

Backdoctor · Feb 18, 2005

act like they smoke crack. This is a prime example.

How do the normal Canonites deal with these poor delusional folks.

Morihei said:
Once upon a time there lived a great, great company named, "Nikon".
Nikon use to make the cameras that all the professional
photographers used. They used them in the leading fashion
magazines, they used them in the leading newspapers, they even
took them to war. For many, many years they ruled the land. One day
digital was invented and everybody told Nikon to be smart otherwise
their enemies, "Canon" would destroy them.

Nikon tried but stumbled and Canon surged ahead in the race to
design, build and deliver a better product. The pros quickly
switched to Canon and everyone else in the world followed. Now just
a few lonely, angry people continue to wait for Nikon to catch up.
Everybody tells them to come over to our side, we welcome them with
beautiful cameras, with low noise and sharp images, its fun. The
Canon people all stand and watch the house of Nikon burn down. Its
a sad day, no one wants to see suffering like this. Once a great
behemoth, now reduced to nothing. A very sad ending yes indeed. So
to all Nikon folks over there crying and suffering, come over to
our side , we want you here with us, we are good people and we will
be your new friends.

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

Matthew Smith · Feb 18, 2005

**** Ginkowski said:
While I've been a Canon user for over 25 years, I appreciate Nikon.
Without the competition -- and there ARE things Nikon still does
BETTER (like flash, for instance) -- Canon's products wouldn't be
as good as they are. So let's celebrate the competition.

MrC · Feb 18, 2005

Doc, I have come to the realization that some of these people would not be happy if they had a Fisher-Price digital camera.

You are right in some of your posts! We are beating a dead horse by trying to give useful information here…

Backdoctor said:
How do the normal Canonites deal with these poor delusional folks.

Morihei said:

Once upon a time there lived a great, great company named, "Nikon".
Nikon use to make the cameras that all the professional
photographers used. They used them in the leading fashion
magazines, they used them in the leading newspapers, they even
took them to war. For many, many years they ruled the land. One day
digital was invented and everybody told Nikon to be smart otherwise
their enemies, "Canon" would destroy them.

Nikon tried but stumbled and Canon surged ahead in the race to
design, build and deliver a better product. The pros quickly
switched to Canon and everyone else in the world followed. Now just
a few lonely, angry people continue to wait for Nikon to catch up.
Everybody tells them to come over to our side, we welcome them with
beautiful cameras, with low noise and sharp images, its fun. The
Canon people all stand and watch the house of Nikon burn down. Its
a sad day, no one wants to see suffering like this. Once a great
behemoth, now reduced to nothing. A very sad ending yes indeed. So
to all Nikon folks over there crying and suffering, come over to
our side , we want you here with us, we are good people and we will
be your new friends.

Click to expand...

--
Harris

PBase/DPReview/NTF supporter
Egret Stalker #4, WSSA #29

http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor

Nicovt · Feb 18, 2005

--
Nico

The End Of Nikon

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