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Decisions-E1 or 20D

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JScott said:
The 20D strobes the pop-up flash as an AF assist lamp. To me that
would be a non-starter. Imagine wedding guests annoyed by a
strobing flash in the face for hours on end.....

Regards,
Scott

--
As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free
  • Tom Petty
Click to expand...
Is using the popup flash then it's time to get a new one. The canon EX external flashes use a red light grid pattern for focus assist which almost isn't noticeable, but I doubt that would even be necessary unless your wedding is at night in a church with no lights.

For the original poster I suggest doing what someone else said and try both cameras and take pictures, look at the pictures at home or print them A3 to see the difference in image quality. If you only print 8x10 then any of the current dslr will make nice prints. The color difference between the two is not much, the Oly's blues seem darker and reds are lighter, but I can easily make either look the same. Saying the difference between 5mp and 8mp images isn't great is something someone with a 5mp camera says. :^)

I'm sure if you post this in the canon forum you will get plenty of honest criticism of the E-1, plenty here are brand loyal, don't fool yourself by thinking otherwise.

My only criticism of the 20d is the loud shutter, using it to take pictures of your childs school play would probably not be advisable. i also understand that keeping it quiet at 5fps is probably not easy, but they should offer some other option for those that don't need the speed, but want the other features. I'd recommend the new digital rebel for that since it's high iso images are probably comparible to the 20d.
--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root
 
E1derful said:
Michael Meissner said:
JScott said:
The 20D strobes the pop-up flash as an AF assist lamp. To me that
would be a non-starter. Imagine wedding guests annoyed by a
strobing flash in the face for hours on end.....
Click to expand...
The E300 does the same, and that was one of the reasons I went for
the E1 rather than E300 (auto white balance was perhaps the most
important).
Click to expand...
HAHA...I went through the same decision. 20D or E1. The
salesperson behind the counter was quite annoyed with me everytime
I fooled around with the shutter button on the 20D. HE got flashed
in a big way everytime. I did it about 8 or so times. Then I
decided to put the camera down and get the E1.

Does this strobe effect of the 20D help with red-eye reduction?
Click to expand...
you only need the strobe if your subject is pitch black or the room is black. Redeye reduction flash does a similar strobe before the main flash.

You all are trying to make a big deal about nothing, move on.

No soup for you! Next!
--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root
 
PaulyOly said:
Is using the popup flash then it's time to get a new one. The
canon EX external flashes use a red light grid pattern for focus
assist which almost isn't noticeable, but I doubt that would even
be necessary unless your wedding is at night in a church with no
lights.
Click to expand...
Focus assist lights on flash units can make focusing worse when the flash is mounted off camera (i.e. on a flash bracket). I turned the focus assist light on my FL-50 off because of this.
PaulyOly said:
I'm sure if you post this in the canon forum you will get plenty of
honest criticism of the E-1, plenty here are brand loyal, don't
fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
Click to expand...
Criticism? Yes, but not honest criticism. For honest criticism, you need to talk to people who have used both systems over an extended period of time.
PaulyOly said:
My only criticism of the 20d is the loud shutter, using it to take
pictures of your childs school play would probably not be
advisable. i also understand that keeping it quiet at 5fps is
probably not easy, but they should offer some other option for
those that don't need the speed, but want the other features. I'd
recommend the new digital rebel for that since it's high iso images
are probably comparible to the 20d.
Click to expand...
The older Rebel had a loud shutter as well. Was this fixed on the XT?

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog
 
butachan said:
Yes, the The 20D strobes the pop-up flash as an AF assist lamp if
you have that function enabled. Why is this an issue considering
that you can disable it?
Click to expand...
It's obviously there for a reason. If the feature is needed, it should be usable.

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog
 
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
Is using the popup flash then it's time to get a new one. The
canon EX external flashes use a red light grid pattern for focus
assist which almost isn't noticeable, but I doubt that would even
be necessary unless your wedding is at night in a church with no
lights.
Click to expand...
Focus assist lights on flash units can make focusing worse when the
flash is mounted off camera (i.e. on a flash bracket). I turned
the focus assist light on my FL-50 off because of this.
Click to expand...
that's true and i also dissabled my focus assist on flash because it isn't necessary unless the above criteria is met.
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
I'm sure if you post this in the canon forum you will get plenty of
honest criticism of the E-1, plenty here are brand loyal, don't
fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
Click to expand...
Criticism? Yes, but not honest criticism. For honest criticism,
you need to talk to people who have used both systems over an
extended period of time.
Click to expand...
and how many people in this forum have used both camera for an extended period of time? You? I'm talking about the two cameras the person is interested in, not some D60 users assestment of the two systems. Terdonal (sp?) and Ben hermann (sp?) are two I know of who have both cameras.
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
My only criticism of the 20d is the loud shutter, using it to take
pictures of your childs school play would probably not be
advisable. i also understand that keeping it quiet at 5fps is
probably not easy, but they should offer some other option for
those that don't need the speed, but want the other features. I'd
recommend the new digital rebel for that since it's high iso images
are probably comparible to the 20d.
Click to expand...
The older Rebel had a loud shutter as well. Was this fixed on the XT?
Click to expand...
Oh please, any quieter and you won't know you've taken a picture, i've never heard the E-1 shutter, but if it's significantly quieter than the digital rebel then it's really unecessarily quiet IMO. the 10d shutter is quieter than the digital rebel, but not by much, that said I think canon should put the 10d shutter/fps in a 20d body for those that want a quiet shutter and don't need 5fps.

I remember your previous posts on the subject, you are clearly brand loyal.
dgrogers said:
--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog
Click to expand...
--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root
 
PaulyOly said:
you only need the strobe if your subject is pitch black or the room
is black. Redeye reduction flash does a similar strobe before the
main flash.

You all are trying to make a big deal about nothing, move on.

No soup for you! Next!
Click to expand...
And how do you know what I shoot? I've shot under those circumstances. On my C-2100UZ, I've shot up to 40 feet in complete darkness (at least until the flash fires). I wish the flash I have (Promaster 5750DX) did the auto focus light for the E1, but I suspect sooner or later, I will upgrade to a FL-36 or FL-50. I detest the flashing strobe, and will not use the so-called red-eye reduction (which before I turned it off never seemed to work anyway). I don't recall how sensitive my sister is who has epilepsy, but I could imagine there are people out there that are senstive enough to send them in a epilectic fit. The flashing strobe ruins the mood, while the red light of the AF light usually does not.
 
apdb90 said:
Greetings all,
I'll apologize if this has been asked and answered already, but I
didn't have much success with a search (and I'm not one of those
terribly patient people-that's why I love digital photography so
much; instant gratification). As I've said in other posts, I've
always been a loyal Nikon follower (35mm) until I "went digital"
and purchased my Olympus E10. It is, without a doubt, my favorite
camera. It's time to upgrade, and I'm pretty much set on an E1.
But with all the favorable press, reviews, opinions, etc. I've read
about the Canon 20D, I feel it merits at least some consideration.
Nikon isn't in the running anymore (the D70's really nice, but I
like the E1 ALOT more, the D2H is FAST and would probably be
interesting to evaluate in Freudian terms, but I'm not impressed
with the images it produces and I can't afford a D2X), so in my
$1500-$2500 price range-preferably on the lower end-it's down to
the E1 and 20D.
I'm obviously starting from "scratch" with a new system either way,
so existing equipment isn't a consideration. I also understand
this is an Olympus forum, but I'm probably as partial to Olympus
digitals as most of you are. Plus, I figure folks on the Olympus
forum will offer honest criticisims of the Canon as opposed to
those who are "brand loyal" to Canon. Long story short, which
should I buy-and why (as far as the 8mp issue-I'm not considering
the Evolt--just not hot on the design; not a "dig", just personal
preference)? Thanks in advance for your replies.
Click to expand...
--
Todd Frederick
 
PaulyOly said:
dgrogers said:
butachan said:
Yes, the The 20D strobes the pop-up flash as an AF assist lamp if
you have that function enabled. Why is this an issue considering
that you can disable it?
Click to expand...
It's obviously there for a reason. If the feature is needed, it
should be usable.
Click to expand...
for focusing in the dark.
Click to expand...
Wow, thanks for enlightening me. The point is, butachan thinks disabling it won't hurt low light focussing.

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog
 
I used a Canon 10D for about a year. I got very good results and worked many weddings with it. My main complaint was the very poor flash interface. Outdoor fill flash was impossible, and indoor flash was inconsistent. I kept having to adjust the exposure compensation and finally started using my Vivitar 285 with the camera in M mode.

I understand that the 20D is much better in that regard with a compatible flash, and reduces the control dials from two to one.

A friend of mine has one and I like it.

I bought the E-1 because of good experiences with my E-10, C-5050, and the perfect flash interface with the E-1. That last issue is critical for wedding and portrait photography.

5.5 mgp gives me very fine 11x14" inkjet prints, and they are not even close to loss of resolution. I'm sure I could go to 16x20" plus from a good lab. That's all I need.
Todd Frederick said:
apdb90 said:
Greetings all,
I'll apologize if this has been asked and answered already, but I
didn't have much success with a search (and I'm not one of those
terribly patient people-that's why I love digital photography so
much; instant gratification). As I've said in other posts, I've
always been a loyal Nikon follower (35mm) until I "went digital"
and purchased my Olympus E10. It is, without a doubt, my favorite
camera. It's time to upgrade, and I'm pretty much set on an E1.
But with all the favorable press, reviews, opinions, etc. I've read
about the Canon 20D, I feel it merits at least some consideration.
Nikon isn't in the running anymore (the D70's really nice, but I
like the E1 ALOT more, the D2H is FAST and would probably be
interesting to evaluate in Freudian terms, but I'm not impressed
with the images it produces and I can't afford a D2X), so in my
$1500-$2500 price range-preferably on the lower end-it's down to
the E1 and 20D.
I'm obviously starting from "scratch" with a new system either way,
so existing equipment isn't a consideration. I also understand
this is an Olympus forum, but I'm probably as partial to Olympus
digitals as most of you are. Plus, I figure folks on the Olympus
forum will offer honest criticisims of the Canon as opposed to
those who are "brand loyal" to Canon. Long story short, which
should I buy-and why (as far as the 8mp issue-I'm not considering
the Evolt--just not hot on the design; not a "dig", just personal
preference)? Thanks in advance for your replies.
Click to expand...
--
Todd Frederick
Click to expand...
--
Todd Frederick
 
PaulyOly said:
PaulyOly said:
PaulyOly said:
I'm sure if you post this in the canon forum you will get plenty of
honest criticism of the E-1, plenty here are brand loyal, don't
fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
Click to expand...
Criticism? Yes, but not honest criticism. For honest criticism,
you need to talk to people who have used both systems over an
extended period of time.
Click to expand...
and how many people in this forum have used both camera for an
extended period of time? You? I'm talking about the two cameras
the person is interested in, not some D60 users assestment of the
two systems. Terdonal (sp?) and Ben hermann (sp?) are two I know
of who have both cameras.
Click to expand...
I never said there wasn't bias in this forum. What I implied was there will be bias in the Canon forums.
PaulyOly said:
PaulyOly said:
The older Rebel had a loud shutter as well. Was this fixed on the XT?
Click to expand...
Oh please, any quieter and you won't know you've taken a picture,
i've never heard the E-1 shutter, but if it's significantly quieter
than the digital rebel then it's really unecessarily quiet IMO. the
10d shutter is quieter than the digital rebel, but not by much,
that said I think canon should put the 10d shutter/fps in a 20d
body for those that want a quiet shutter and don't need 5fps.
Click to expand...
There's no such thing as unecessarily quiet shutters, unless you like people turning to look at you when shotting a wedding in a church.
PaulyOly said:
I remember your previous posts on the subject, you are clearly
brand loyal.
Click to expand...
At least I'm not an evangelist visiting other forums to show people the way of Olympus.

P.S.

The Fuji S2 was my second choice.

20D was 3rd.........

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog
 
You should check out Cameta Camera on e-bay. They presently have Olympus E-1 factory demos with lens on sale for approximately 900 USD. I have purchased twice from them and I can't complain about the service. Highly recommended!
apdb90 said:
Greetings all,
I'll apologize if this has been asked and answered already, but I
didn't have much success with a search (and I'm not one of those
terribly patient people-that's why I love digital photography so
much; instant gratification). As I've said in other posts, I've
always been a loyal Nikon follower (35mm) until I "went digital"
and purchased my Olympus E10. It is, without a doubt, my favorite
camera. It's time to upgrade, and I'm pretty much set on an E1.
But with all the favorable press, reviews, opinions, etc. I've read
about the Canon 20D, I feel it merits at least some consideration.
Nikon isn't in the running anymore (the D70's really nice, but I
like the E1 ALOT more, the D2H is FAST and would probably be
interesting to evaluate in Freudian terms, but I'm not impressed
with the images it produces and I can't afford a D2X), so in my
$1500-$2500 price range-preferably on the lower end-it's down to
the E1 and 20D.
I'm obviously starting from "scratch" with a new system either way,
so existing equipment isn't a consideration. I also understand
this is an Olympus forum, but I'm probably as partial to Olympus
digitals as most of you are. Plus, I figure folks on the Olympus
forum will offer honest criticisims of the Canon as opposed to
those who are "brand loyal" to Canon. Long story short, which
should I buy-and why (as far as the 8mp issue-I'm not considering
the Evolt--just not hot on the design; not a "dig", just personal
preference)? Thanks in advance for your replies.
Click to expand...
 
apdb90

I'm not trying to push you one way or the other but I think I should point out that the canon pre-flash can be turned off, that the 20D is not sealed, that the Canon series 1 body's are but they cost 3 to 5 times the price of the E1. I feel that Canon series 1 is a better camera than the E1 but the E1 has better value for the money and is smaller and lighter than the big heavy Canons. The E1 has a lot going for it and so do the Canon series 1 and some of the Nikon's. If possible try them all make the choice that is right for you. Buy good glass. Glass is a long term investment and for your indoor horse images you need fast glass.
--
JJMack
 
I agree...Cameta Camera is a good place to buy. I bought two cameras and a lens from them, and they even enclose a pack of candy in every shipment. They are very honest!
ravduc said:
apdb90 said:
Greetings all,
I'll apologize if this has been asked and answered already, but I
didn't have much success with a search (and I'm not one of those
terribly patient people-that's why I love digital photography so
much; instant gratification). As I've said in other posts, I've
always been a loyal Nikon follower (35mm) until I "went digital"
and purchased my Olympus E10. It is, without a doubt, my favorite
camera. It's time to upgrade, and I'm pretty much set on an E1.
But with all the favorable press, reviews, opinions, etc. I've read
about the Canon 20D, I feel it merits at least some consideration.
Nikon isn't in the running anymore (the D70's really nice, but I
like the E1 ALOT more, the D2H is FAST and would probably be
interesting to evaluate in Freudian terms, but I'm not impressed
with the images it produces and I can't afford a D2X), so in my
$1500-$2500 price range-preferably on the lower end-it's down to
the E1 and 20D.
I'm obviously starting from "scratch" with a new system either way,
so existing equipment isn't a consideration. I also understand
this is an Olympus forum, but I'm probably as partial to Olympus
digitals as most of you are. Plus, I figure folks on the Olympus
forum will offer honest criticisims of the Canon as opposed to
those who are "brand loyal" to Canon. Long story short, which
should I buy-and why (as far as the 8mp issue-I'm not considering
the Evolt--just not hot on the design; not a "dig", just personal
preference)? Thanks in advance for your replies.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Todd Frederick
 
Wow, we sure got a little "brand loyalty" animosity going there for a while! Before I get to my trip to the local camera store, a comment and a question.

First, MichaelMeisner (I think) posted about using a Promaster 5750DX. How has this flash "been" to you? I bought one for my E10, did two weddings with it, then packed it away in a camera bag, in a 1000 lb (empty) gun safe. I didn't use it for quite a while because the camera wasn't being used for much other than snap shots of the kids and the pop up works fine for that. I pulled it out a few weeks ago to take some pics at my oldest son's basketball game and it was DEAD! It wasn't banged around or neglected. I cleaned all the contacts (and later had a local shop do the same). I tried several sets of new batteries. I even tried putting a new module on it. Nothing. Turn it on, and the green light comes on-but the flash doesn't charge. Of course I'm slightly over my 1 year warranty period (most of which was spent sitting in a climate controlled safe) and was told by the dealer and Promaster that I was pretty much SOL. Pretty dissapointing considering how pleased I've been with the FTD 7000M I have for my Nikon 35mm. No more Promaster's for me!

Now the question. Has anyone had any dealings with Beach Camera? They have a package that includes (all with Olympus USA warrany) the E1 body, 14mm-54mm lens, FL-20 (I want either a 36 or 50, but it comes with the kit and can't be substituted), and I think some other misc. junk. All for $1299!!!! The local shops are selling the body only for $1269-$1299. I know I've seen Beach advertised on this site, but was curious if anyone actually dealt with them.

Finally, I made the pilgrimage to the local shop today and played with the E1 and 20D. The 20D was a VERY nice camera. The only thing I immediately noticed that I didn't like was the multiple focus points lighting up at the same time. I'm sure that can probably be disabled, but I wasn't really hot on it. As nice as the 20D was--and it "felt" pretty good (the grip seemed a bit squared off for my liking), it just didn't "feel" GREAT. As soon as I picked up the E1, I knew it was for me. It felt absolutely perfect in my hand, was incredibly responsive (keep in mind that I'm shooting an E10, so at this point, most current point and shoots feel responsive!), and just "made sense". Maybe it's the experience with the E10, but I picked up the E1 and could actually enjoy how great it felt, and how well it worked, and needed only to concentrate on TAKING PICTURES. I didn't have to think about what I was doing. What I found VERY interesting was talking to two separate salesmen. I made sure I didn't give either any information on what I was currently shooting, or in which direction I was leaning. I also made it very clear that the difference in price between the two was insignificant. Both told me they were Canon "shooters". Both asked what the largest prints I would be making was. Both asked if I needed the high rate of fire. After giving both the same answers (the same I posted here-weddings, my kids basketball and soccer games, etc.), BOTH reccomended the E1! They both felt the build quality and ergonomics far exceeded the 20D. Both felt the "out of the camera" images were better needing less processing. Both cited, from a camera shop / repair center standpoint, how HUGE the SSWF was. And finally, BOTH were absolutely amazed with the quality of the "glass" and the ability to cover such a broad focal range-with that quality, and at that price-with just 2 lenses.

Well folks, the decision is made. It WILL be the E1 for me. Thank you all very much for your input and opinions. They were a great help in the decision making process-and it was a very difficult decision to make. Now I just need that #(%&#( income tax return check to get here!
 
Congrats on your decision. The E1 will not dissapoint.
apdb90 said:
Wow, we sure got a little "brand loyalty" animosity going there for
a while! Before I get to my trip to the local camera store, a
comment and a question.

First, MichaelMeisner (I think) posted about using a Promaster
5750DX. How has this flash "been" to you? I bought one for my
E10, did two weddings with it, then packed it away in a camera bag,
in a 1000 lb (empty) gun safe. I didn't use it for quite a while
because the camera wasn't being used for much other than snap shots
of the kids and the pop up works fine for that. I pulled it out a
few weeks ago to take some pics at my oldest son's basketball game
and it was DEAD! It wasn't banged around or neglected. I cleaned
all the contacts (and later had a local shop do the same). I tried
several sets of new batteries. I even tried putting a new module
on it. Nothing. Turn it on, and the green light comes on-but the
flash doesn't charge. Of course I'm slightly over my 1 year
warranty period (most of which was spent sitting in a climate
controlled safe) and was told by the dealer and Promaster that I
was pretty much SOL. Pretty dissapointing considering how pleased
I've been with the FTD 7000M I have for my Nikon 35mm. No more
Promaster's for me!

Now the question. Has anyone had any dealings with Beach Camera?
They have a package that includes (all with Olympus USA warrany)
the E1 body, 14mm-54mm lens, FL-20 (I want either a 36 or 50, but
it comes with the kit and can't be substituted), and I think some
other misc. junk. All for $1299!!!! The local shops are selling
the body only for $1269-$1299. I know I've seen Beach advertised
on this site, but was curious if anyone actually dealt with them.

Finally, I made the pilgrimage to the local shop today and played
with the E1 and 20D. The 20D was a VERY nice camera. The only
thing I immediately noticed that I didn't like was the multiple
focus points lighting up at the same time. I'm sure that can
probably be disabled, but I wasn't really hot on it. As nice as
the 20D was--and it "felt" pretty good (the grip seemed a bit
squared off for my liking), it just didn't "feel" GREAT. As soon
as I picked up the E1, I knew it was for me. It felt absolutely
perfect in my hand, was incredibly responsive (keep in mind that
I'm shooting an E10, so at this point, most current point and
shoots feel responsive!), and just "made sense". Maybe it's the
experience with the E10, but I picked up the E1 and could actually
enjoy how great it felt, and how well it worked, and needed only to
concentrate on TAKING PICTURES. I didn't have to think about what
I was doing. What I found VERY interesting was talking to two
separate salesmen. I made sure I didn't give either any
information on what I was currently shooting, or in which direction
I was leaning. I also made it very clear that the difference in
price between the two was insignificant. Both told me they were
Canon "shooters". Both asked what the largest prints I would be
making was. Both asked if I needed the high rate of fire. After
giving both the same answers (the same I posted here-weddings, my
kids basketball and soccer games, etc.), BOTH reccomended the E1!
They both felt the build quality and ergonomics far exceeded the
20D. Both felt the "out of the camera" images were better needing
less processing. Both cited, from a camera shop / repair center
standpoint, how HUGE the SSWF was. And finally, BOTH were
absolutely amazed with the quality of the "glass" and the ability
to cover such a broad focal range-with that quality, and at that
price-with just 2 lenses.

Well folks, the decision is made. It WILL be the E1 for me. Thank
you all very much for your input and opinions. They were a great
help in the decision making process-and it was a very difficult
decision to make. Now I just need that #(%&#( income tax return
check to get here!
Click to expand...
--
Kevin Barrett
Lowell, MI
http://www.kbfoto.com
 
apdb90 said:
Wow, we sure got a little "brand loyalty" animosity going there for
a while! Before I get to my trip to the local camera store, a
comment and a question.

First, MichaelMeisner (I think) posted about using a Promaster
5750DX. How has this flash "been" to you? I bought one for my
E10, did two weddings with it, then packed it away in a camera bag,
in a 1000 lb (empty) gun safe. I didn't use it for quite a while
because the camera wasn't being used for much other than snap shots
of the kids and the pop up works fine for that. I pulled it out a
few weeks ago to take some pics at my oldest son's basketball game
and it was DEAD! It wasn't banged around or neglected. I cleaned
all the contacts (and later had a local shop do the same). I tried
several sets of new batteries. I even tried putting a new module
on it. Nothing. Turn it on, and the green light comes on-but the
flash doesn't charge. Of course I'm slightly over my 1 year
warranty period (most of which was spent sitting in a climate
controlled safe) and was told by the dealer and Promaster that I
was pretty much SOL. Pretty dissapointing considering how pleased
I've been with the FTD 7000M I have for my Nikon 35mm. No more
Promaster's for me!
Click to expand...
I've heard of this with many different flash brands over the years. I am a software person and not a hardware person, but I believe the problem is the capaicitor in the flash needs a certain level of charge in it, and if you let the flash sit for months at a time, the capicitor drains, and can't be restarted.

Promaster used to make 2 different Olympus adaptors, and now they make 3 (E1/C5000 needed some change in the hotshoe adaptor). One of the adaptors was for the 5 pin TTL connection older Olympus prosumer cameras had, such as my Olympus C-2100UZ. They were the only flash maker that catered to those cameras. Other flash makers only made the hot-shoe adaptor, and you had to buy a Rube Goldberg setup (FL-CB01 cable and FL-BK01 bracket) to attach a TTL flash to the camera. From what I've read, the FL-40 was a better designed flash, but for what it was, the Promaster worked well for me. I was able to photograph from the back of a dark church with it, and have it light up the subjects.

I did abuse it during one photo shoot, where I was shooting in continous mode more or less for an hour and a half, and the flash burned itself out. Given the warnings on the flash manuals, I'm not sure the FL-40 or FL-36 would do much better. The FL-50 looks like it is built to withstand more harsh treatment, and if I was a wedding photographer, that is probably the flash I would pick.

If you only have to worry about one camera, and were starting out, and needed an occasional flash, I think the FL-36 looks like a nice flash, and it has lowered the price down to the Promaster level. I think the FL-20 is a joke, only to be used if space in your bag is at a premium, you are completely out of money and need a flash, or you bought one of the earlier E-1 kits, and it came free like a prize in the cereal box.
 
dgrogers said:
PaulyOly said:
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
I'm sure if you post this in the canon forum you will get plenty of
honest criticism of the E-1, plenty here are brand loyal, don't
fool yourself by thinking otherwise.
Click to expand...
Criticism? Yes, but not honest criticism. For honest criticism,
you need to talk to people who have used both systems over an
extended period of time.
Click to expand...
and how many people in this forum have used both camera for an
extended period of time? You? I'm talking about the two cameras
the person is interested in, not some D60 users assestment of the
two systems. Terdonal (sp?) and Ben hermann (sp?) are two I know
of who have both cameras.
Click to expand...
I never said there wasn't bias in this forum. What I implied was
there will be bias in the Canon forums.
Click to expand...
What you implied was that you can get honest criticism here, i disagree. I know, there isn't anything to criticize about the E-1, it's perfect. Although the sample images at various review site all look a tad soft to me and usm affects them very differently than the canon images. I think it's the 14-54 lens, most samples are taken with it. funny how threads like these don't get many replies.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=11637752

Please don't start talking about bittingly sharp again.
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
The older Rebel had a loud shutter as well. Was this fixed on the XT?
Click to expand...
Oh please, any quieter and you won't know you've taken a picture,
i've never heard the E-1 shutter, but if it's significantly quieter
than the digital rebel then it's really unecessarily quiet IMO. the
10d shutter is quieter than the digital rebel, but not by much,
that said I think canon should put the 10d shutter/fps in a 20d
body for those that want a quiet shutter and don't need 5fps.
Click to expand...
There's no such thing as unecessarily quiet shutters, unless you
like people turning to look at you when shotting a wedding in a
church.
Click to expand...
Have you ever used a digital rebel? Be honest if you can.
dgrogers said:
dgrogers said:
I remember your previous posts on the subject, you are clearly
brand loyal.
Click to expand...
At least I'm not an evangelist visiting other forums to show people
the way of Olympus.
Click to expand...
I'm not an evangelist, the only thing i'm trying to show is the inaccuracies posted on here by some Oly users of a camera that they have never used.
dgrogers said:
P.S.

The Fuji S2 was my second choice.

20D was 3rd.........

--
dgrogers

http://www.pbase.com/drog
Click to expand...
--



Narrow depth of field ahead
Use extreme caution

http://www.pbase.com/paulyoly/root
 
Robgo2 said:
James Pilcher said:
Photography always comes down to the lenses. The camera body is
just a light-tight box designed to capture what the lens sees.
Click to expand...
Whereas this notion is largely true for film cameras, it is
definitely not true for digital cameras, in which hardware and
software play a major role in determining image quality. For this
reason, adopting a particular digital camera system is not simply a
matter of buying into a collection of lenses.

Rob
Click to expand...
I wondered if anyone would notice my invalid assumption. Yes, when you buy the digital camera you are buying the look and feel of the final image too because of the sensor, processing unit, and firmware. It's still a light-tight box, though. I got that much correct!

--
Cheers,

Jim Pilcher
Colorado Rocky Mountains, USA

'I have not failed. I've merely discovered 10,000 approaches that do not work.' -- paraphrased from Thomas Edison
 
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