350 XT ... rock n roll ... good morning Nikon...

Not for me. The body would not stand up to my enviroment.. I would have to at least have the 20D.. I am really sad Canon decided to follow the toy body line..

But I agree. Nikon will have to pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep up in the MP race...

I hope the 350D is not as buggy as the 20D is.

Kelo,

You are basing your arithmetic on total megapixels, but resolution is based on pixels/mm or pixels/picture height. For example, the D70 has 2000 pixels/picture height (short axis of the sensor). If you print at 240 pixels/inch you get a picture width of 8.33 inches. If you go to the Nikon D2x with 2848 pixels/picture height, your print at 240ppi will be 11.87 inches wide.

You have to quadruple the megapixel size to double the resolution. If you increase megapixels without increasing the sensor size, you quickly run into noise problems and there is a sweet spot between noise and resolution. Unless Nikon increases their sensor size, they won't have a good high IS0 camera to compete with the Canon EOS 1D mark II. From all indications, the D2x will not be a good high ISO camera, but will be fine for shooting in good light.

Kelo said:

Kelo said:

A picture taken with an 8MP camera will only give you an 12.5%
larger image wich is hardly noticable. So those who already have
the have the great D70 and 300D cameras should no worry to much.

Click to expand...

Picture of 350D is 32.4% larger than D70 image.

• Kelo

Click to expand...

--
Bill Janes

I have owned Nikon for 35 years and am in the Nikon camp, but unfortunately, Nikon does not make their own sensors while Canon does and has been able to make a good though expensive full frame sensor.

Is Nikon sticking with APS size sensors because they think that is optimum or because Sony does not make a full frame sensor?

!

jazz04 said:

I disagree. Canon is trying very hard to dominate the market. The
market is definite there. Even mum and dad + secondary school
students wants a digital camera. They have no ideas as to how to
download them into the computer but they still want one anyway.
Canon and Nikon are trying to keep the market to themself by
running out models after models to cover all ground. If they don't
other companies will.
--
Nikon D70 and Sony P150

Click to expand...

--
Bill Janes

It depends on how you definge larger. The difference is about 30% more pixels. But if you have a picture printed 15cm wide, wich is quite common family album size from the 300D or D70. If you keep the same resolution you can only make it 1.8.cm larger (or 12.5%).. its less than two centimeters! And if you plan to print a 15cm photo from the 8MP camera.. it's unlikely you'll notice the difference.

The only people who will really benefit from this are professionals who take pictures for very large prints like billboards or something... and they of course already have a 12MP or 16MP camera for the job.

Kelo said:

Picture of 350D is 32.4% larger than D70 image.

• Kelo

Click to expand...

Retains huge amounts of flash power. 1/500 works very well in outdoor fill flash situations. If you have a d70 and an outpboad flash try it out some time and be amazed. Sometimes I'd like more than 1/500 speed. Less is the wrong direction. The synthesized schemes throw away vast amounts of flash power. So you wind up with effectively a weak flash and may thing fill flash just doesn't work in some shots when the real issue was the x-sync.

Hauxon said:

The truth is for most things even a 5MP censor produces very good
and detailed images that are more than sufficient for most people..
even professionals. For the Megapixel count to really matter we
need to at least double it and we ain't going to have 12MP cameras
for $999 any time soon.

Click to expand...

I suppose it depends what you define as anytime soon as in last months trade reports Sony expects the recently developed 12mp sensor (D2Hs) to enter into mainstream products by 2006. ie. something like the next gen D70 possibly and other supplied brands.

--

Hauxon said:

Hauxon said:

~ My 300D Gallery... http://www.jlmay.f2s.com/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

All they need to do know is to lower the prices of D70, preferrably before 350D hits the market. D70 cannot compete with the 350D at similar price levels.

Nikon is capable of doing this since the design and other fixed costs with D70 have already been covered.

Also remember that the sub $1000 cameras are the milk cows for the manufacturers and therefore they just cannot afford to loose their market share. Imagine how successful the D70 has been for Nikon, now there are plenty of new users with Nikon glass who cannot jump to Canon unless taking a loss on switching lenses.

I think therefore that Nikon will lower the D70 prices to stay in the race and then replace the D100 before Christmas and that camera will probably outperform 20D except it will have higher noice at high ISO.

I like the 350D specs and I´ll probably get one when it comes out but if Nikon is determined to show the market that it will always offer its customers competitive value for their money, I´ll probably jump aboard the Nikon´s ship.

vs electronic 1/500.. blooming and all..

as the other poster said.. look at the pro bodies.. this doesn't seem to be an issue for people who're earning their living with photography.. doesn't seem that big an issue for an entry-level camera..

FWIW i can flash sync an Auto Flash at 1/320sec without seeing the shutter in the frame with my Rebel.

pixenator said:

Retains huge amounts of flash power. 1/500 works very well in
outdoor fill flash situations. If you have a d70 and an outpboad
flash try it out some time and be amazed. Sometimes I'd like more
than 1/500 speed. Less is the wrong direction. The synthesized
schemes throw away vast amounts of flash power. So you wind up
with effectively a weak flash and may thing fill flash just doesn't
work in some shots when the real issue was the x-sync.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. The megapixel difference is minimal and certainly not worth switching over to Canon. The high end Canon DSLR cameras are a different story. Canon boasts that 70% of the pro users at the 2004 Athens Olympics used Canon cameras. The 1DS MkII is going to make that domination even worse (if you are a Nikon fan.)

PeterRH said:

I take an interest in other brand equipment when I think it moves
the game on for all of us. Just don't see an updated Rebel as
providing much to chew on.

10fps said:

what do you think about the new 350 ? looks good to me...

Click to expand...

--
http://peterrh.smugmug.com

Click to expand...

350d said:

I think therefore that Nikon will lower the D70 prices to stay in
the race and then replace the D100 before Christmas and that camera
will probably outperform 20D except it will have higher noice at
high ISO.

Click to expand...

That is a tall order for a new D100 to outperform the 20D at the same price. Nikon is a little behind. Look at their just-announced 4mp response to the year-old 1DmkII.

If performance includes 5 FPS at 8MP and low-noise at High ISO, then I believe it will be difficult for Nikon to match the 20D at a $1500 price level this year. I really do hope they can do it...

--
Eric Sorensen
Bossier City, Louisiana
http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen

This may be "Adios" for Nikons low end market share. :-(

Nikon is in deep yogurt and they are only 18 months from becoming another one of the also-rans: Oly, Minolta, Kodak, etc.

It's sad but Nikon's "old school" engeering development philosophy is killing them in the fast paced world of the DSLR market. Therefore, I'm not buying any more Nikon HW (until they show be da goods) and I bet a lot of other folks will be thinking the same. If Nikon doesn't announce a couple of major mid-line products in the next 6 months I'm outa-here. :-(

Regards
JohnG

10fps said:

what do you think about the new 350 ? looks good to me...

Click to expand...

You are right, because as soon as the 350D hits the market, my D70 will stop taking good pictures...

I know this has been said before, but I couldn't resist...

AJM

Johnnymg2 said:

Nikon is in deep yogurt and they are only 18 months from becoming
another one of the also-rans: Oly, Minolta, Kodak, etc.

It's sad but Nikon's "old school" engeering development philosophy
is killing them in the fast paced world of the DSLR market.
Therefore, I'm not buying any more Nikon HW (until they show be da
goods) and I bet a lot of other folks will be thinking the same. If
Nikon doesn't announce a couple of major mid-line products in the
next 6 months I'm outa-here. :-(

Regards
JohnG

10fps said:

what do you think about the new 350 ? looks good to me...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

You can, but you loose a lot of functions

DMillier said:

DikkieDick said:

DavidMillier said:

what do you think about the new 350 ? looks good to me...

Click to expand...

May look good if you don't own a non-Canon yet or a DSLR either.
As happy D70-owner with a bunch of lenses I would never opt to
switch to Canon. The only option to switch to another brand is when
my whole equipment gets stolen or lost.

I will also not buy the followup for the D70. The D70 is fine for
me. It does a great job, and I will try to use this camera until it
falls apart in pieces. Until then I won't buy a new camera, well
that is, unless I win the lottery or so, but chances of doing that
are very little as i don't play in lotteries. ;-)

Greetings, ****
http://ingedick.xs4all.nl/fotografie/index.html

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

They are going to continue to run it.

Hauxon said:

I hope Canon keeps the 300D on the market and lowers the price to
.. say $599. Then Nikon must then lower the already overpriced D70,
it has no chance of selling for more or same as the superiour Canon
350D.

A big price drop in the 6Mp DSLR's is hopefully on it's way. The
camera companys can that way enlarge the market and profit from
selling more lenses.

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

none of the CMOS sensors do faster than 1/250 witha CMOS chip, including Nikon's

Maybe it could be done, but it wouldn't be cheap or easy and don't expect to see it debut in an entry level camera.

pixenator said:

Retains huge amounts of flash power. 1/500 works very well in
outdoor fill flash situations. If you have a d70 and an outpboad
flash try it out some time and be amazed. Sometimes I'd like more
than 1/500 speed. Less is the wrong direction. The synthesized
schemes throw away vast amounts of flash power. So you wind up
with effectively a weak flash and may thing fill flash just doesn't
work in some shots when the real issue was the x-sync.

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

Really, why?

How have things changed in the 6mp vs 8mp debate since this was written?

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm

--
'Nice pen, bet you write good stories with it.'

I suppose they could use the Sony 10MP, but it seems just as likely that they are going to have to hang on for the 12MP chip to be mass-produced.

Interestingly, according to Oly Sony are also planning on entering the DSLR market, as are Panasonic, and Panasonic have said that they intend to release in 2006.

Looks to me as though that is the target date for a lot of action to try to take Canon's lunch with 12MP sensors - spring 2006 is also about when the 20D is due for replacement.

The market coverage across the range of Canon is what is starting to affect Nikon, rather than any specific camera.
If you want to go higher than a D70 at reasonable cost, where do you go?

HappySnappy said:

Hauxon said:

The truth is for most things even a 5MP censor produces very good
and detailed images that are more than sufficient for most people..
even professionals. For the Megapixel count to really matter we
need to at least double it and we ain't going to have 12MP cameras
for $999 any time soon.

Click to expand...

I suppose it depends what you define as anytime soon as in last
months trade reports Sony expects the recently developed 12mp
sensor (D2Hs) to enter into mainstream products by 2006. ie.
something like the next gen D70 possibly and other supplied brands.

--

HappySnappy said:

HappySnappy said:

~ My 300D Gallery... http://www.jlmay.f2s.com/

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Regards,
DaveMart
Please see profile for equipment

hej nikonians,

first time for me over in the nikon forums. i think this spring is shaping up to be a great time for the under $1000 DSLR's. here is what i see as comin street price lineups:
D70 + kit lens = $999
350D + kit lens = $999
350D body = $899
D70 body = $799
istDs + kit lens = $799
300D + kit lens = $799
istDs body = $699
300D body = $699

im paying attention because im a canon D30 user (anybody remember that 3.1 Mp body form year 2000?) and would like to print A4 size without requiring any uprez (thats 8 Mp for ya). i would love a 20D but dont have the dough so am keeping my eye on the lower priced market. anyways, i constantly hear how great that 18-70DX kit lens is and sure wish canon would provide something along those lines (canon's 17-85 IS is too slow and overpriced). that is why i think the D70 can still compete with 350D when one is considering the kit lens. body only, it'll have to priced cheaper.

the question concerning nikon in my mind is when will they get off the sony dope and start putting their own sensors in their lower speced cameras. i think this should be their biggest strategic goal. do the forum members see a nikon designed and manufactured sensor coming in either the D70 or D100 replacement?
captainbabislamm

p.s. isn't it also great that the APS primes are showing up on the market. first there was that great looking pentax 14/2.8. then sigma's 30/1.4 and now canon's 60/2.8 macro. anybody know what nikon has up their sleave in the APS sensor prime arena?

10fps said:

what do you think about the new 350 ? looks good to me...

Click to expand...

as a

That's a sizable amount of cropping ability and increased capturing of detail.

I sure wish I had 8mp (or more) instead of 6mp.

--
Eric Sorensen
Bossier City, Louisiana
http://www.pbase.com/ericsorensen

captainbabislamm wrote:
....

captainbabislamm said:

that 3.1 Mp body form year 2000?) and would like to print A4 size
without requiring any uprez (thats 8 Mp for ya).

Click to expand...

....
that is at 300ppi without uprez.
captainbabislamm