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QV3000 noise experiment

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SteveB

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Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect, apart from sensitivity of course.

My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing in the following order on :-

1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4, Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail. Try it.
 
Are those consistent enough to use exactly the same PSP every time? As I recall PSP 7 holds the last values used.
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
 
SteveB:

I would love to be able to use ISO 400 but results at 200 have been so shakey that I've never tried anything higher.

I ruined a set of vacation shots using high contrast, now it would seem that high sharpness will have to go, as well.

Thank you for your efforts. any chance of showing a sample, maybe best shot before and after PS?

rick
Bill Drew said:
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Three pictures to show the noisy effect of hard sharpening on a QV3000:-

These are 100kb approx sections of the originals with extra jpg compression to keep filesize down. They are all noisy because of using 400ASA in low light but it demonstrates the effect. Normal sensitivity 100ASA would be much better of course.
First the section at 400ASA with HARD sharpening:-



Second, the same shot with soft sharpening:-



Last, the soft shot with touching up in PSP7 using the first 3 steps (no clarify used) as described in this thread earlier, a mild noise reduction that I usually find enough on 'normal' shots. Edge Preserving Smooth upped to 5 would reduce the noise more if required but you start to see some mild artifacts:-



Note that not only is there much less noise but you can just read the 'Lord of The Ring' book title on the best soft shot, impossible on the hard sharpening shot.
Richard Kellaway said:
I would love to be able to use ISO 400 but results at 200 have been
so shakey that I've never tried anything higher.

I ruined a set of vacation shots using high contrast, now it would
seem that high sharpness will have to go, as well.

Thank you for your efforts. any chance of showing a sample, maybe
best shot before and after PS?

rick
Bill Drew said:
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
SteveB:

That is absolutely amazing and an enormous difference. Thank you very much for puting up the samples, I would not have believed it otherwise.
So I can now use those extra ISO settings and get some reasonable shots.

I hope that the rest of this forum's group see your thread, it's an important discovery.

rick
SteveB said:


Second, the same shot with soft sharpening:-



Last, the soft shot with touching up in PSP7 using the first 3
steps (no clarify used) as described in this thread earlier, a mild
noise reduction that I usually find enough on 'normal' shots. Edge
Preserving Smooth upped to 5 would reduce the noise more if
required but you start to see some mild artifacts:-



Note that not only is there much less noise but you can just read
the 'Lord of The Ring' book title on the best soft shot, impossible
on the hard sharpening shot.
Richard Kellaway said:
I would love to be able to use ISO 400 but results at 200 have been
so shakey that I've never tried anything higher.

I ruined a set of vacation shots using high contrast, now it would
seem that high sharpness will have to go, as well.

Thank you for your efforts. any chance of showing a sample, maybe
best shot before and after PS?

rick
Bill Drew said:
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Great work Steve! Thanks much.

Can anyone tell me the PS5LE equivalent workflow of this workaround?

Regards,
Loris Medici.
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
 
Try DCEnhancer at http://www.mediachance.com/digicam/index.html its a great noise remover and its free!.Pete
Loris Medici said:
Can anyone tell me the PS5LE equivalent workflow of this workaround?

Regards,
Loris Medici.
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the recommendation Pete.

I already downloaded that program. But the results did not satisfied me. Steve's results are far better from DCEnhancer's results.

Regards,
Loris.
Pete said:
Loris Medici said:
Can anyone tell me the PS5LE equivalent workflow of this workaround?

Regards,
Loris Medici.
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Update on the PSP7 settings............

My original noise reducing settings work fine most of the time ,but the Salt n Pepper filter Aggressive ON should be OFF if the picture contains regular fine lines or small box shapes such as roof tiles seen from a distance.
SteveB said:
Having decided that my QV3000 camera is good enough until they come
out with at least 8-16 Megapixel cams, I decided to make the most
of what it can do. The only thing that sometimes bugs me is noise
in pictures and I was never sure when it was going to strike. Post
editing in PSP7 is pretty good at reducing noise, but obviously the
less there is straight out of the camera the better, so I conducted
an experiment with taking the same shot many times with all
combinations of settings but always on Sensitivity +3 (400ASA?) so
as to guarantee some noise. The shot was indoors in shady daylight
with the camera aimed at exactly the same spot with plain coloured
areas and a bookcase to get some book spines in for detail
comparison.

The overwhelming conclusion was............Use soft sharpening!

The Casio sharpening is just awful in comparison with PSP7. It
enhances the noise terribly and it loses a LOT of fine detail, the
opposite to what I expected. Other settings have much less affect,
apart from sensitivity of course.
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.

The difference in noise is tremendous and yet there is more detail.
Try it.
Click to expand...
 
SteveB said:
Member said:
My best results for low noise and good quality pictures were with
Casio sharpening on soft, Saturation high, Contrast low (this is
also best to avoid highlight blow out), and PSP7 for post editing
in the following order on :-
1st......Salt N Pepper filter set to Speck size=1, Sensitivity 4,
Aggressive action=ON
2nd.....Edge Preserving Smooth=3
3rd..... Run the standard sharpening twice.
4th..... If you want to, run Clarify=4 to up the contrast.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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