False Sense of Economy?

Mike K wrote:
While I agree that 64meg is not really enough, it is misleading to
equate it to 1 1/2 rolls of film because it usually represents all
keepers due to the ability to instantly delete those pics you
don't like. If 1 1/2 rolls of film is, say, 36 pictures, how many
physical rolls of film would one go through with his P&S to get 36
keepers ? For me, probably 10 rolls or more (I'm not much of a
photog).
But it's also misleading due to the inability to easily replace it. People are always amazed when I tell them I have a 128mb memory stick which will hold 80 pictures. "80 pictures? That's over twice a roll of film! Why do you need that much?" Because I can't buy a third, or fourth, or fifth roll of film at the grocery store. I can reuse it, so there's no consumable cost, but not without a computer to unload my existing pictures.
 
Certainly right, but not completely memory is an investment, if you
have CF or SM there is a big chance you can still use it for you
next camera. I dont care what brand my camera is as long as its
good, in the future if I want to sell my camera and buy another
brand I can keep my CF. Try that with Sony, if you buy Sony camera
now and buy brand Z camera later will you MS fit in it?
Arent there some cams only use CF or SM? U may still stuck with one
brand or one series.
Unless you want to stick with Sony cameras for eternity or if you
dont mind losing some money selling and buying memory, buy another
brand.
I see my likely choice of next camera as an SLR digital. Every single one of them use CF I and II and some use SM as well. NONE of them use MS. So if you're moving to more sophisticated photographic equipment you wil leave the MS format behind.
Regards, Mike K
 
I've got no problem with their pricing philosopy. If they artificially reduce the price of their cameras just to entice people to their memory stick format, then so be it. For those of us who already have a collection of memory sticks, we will benefit from lower pricing on the latest Sony cameras.
I have seen several make the claim that Sony cameras are a good buy
because the sales price of the S75,S85 was (say $100-150 less) than
the competition with similar features. If one looks at only the
price of the camera, this is true, but I find it very short sighted
ecomomy.
Every digicam photograher will buy more memory; the amount that
comes with the camera is just so you can check it out and see that
it works when you open the box. Any photographer worth their salt
will buy 128 mb or more if they have a 3 mp camera. In fact, this
is one area where much more memory is much more better! You're not
using your camera to its capability if you are always concerned
about running out of memory. Its clear that memory sticks are
almost 2X the price of CF (128 mb CF can be had or less than $80).
With the S85 and beyond, file sizes continue to get larger and even
more memory will be needed make use of S85 features such as
bracketing. When Sony finally intorduces a 1 gb MS ($$$???) IBM
will have a 6 gb microdirve (and microdrive competition to keep the
prices reasonable).
I believe the lower pricing of S75/85 is a marketing gimmick to
make the camera apperar cheaper. However, Sony will pocket the
difference when you purchase your supply of Sony memory sticks.
The marketing staff at Sony are very aware of this trade off, don't
get caught in their short term pricing trick. If you are a new
camera buyer, figure on purchasing 2x the amount of memory you
think you'll need (the likely outcome) and add that to the price to
the camera. Do the same with the competition and weigh your
choices based upon that calculation. Get a Sony for its features
and performance, not for its apparently low price.
Regards, Mike K.
 
Maybe. But there are stories about CF, for example, where people
have used them to carry around Word files and such-like, without
their camera/music player noticing. I don't think any of the major
media formats provides a big obstacle to that.
OK. :)

Stories. Not noticing. Big obstacles.

More research, less stories.
Possible… but who are the manufacturers that want to participate?
Sony, Sony, Sony, a few other companies with a half-hearted
commitment (I can't think of anyone else that's actually shipped a
Memory Stick product — it's just lip service), and did I mention
Sony?
We're not talking just making Memory Sticks here (even there, didn't you read the latest reports at c~net ?). We're talking about application. This is part of the reason that Memory Stick media has grown in two years to over 25%. Its numbers like these that is swinging supporters, as was predicted over a year ago.
 
You can still choose, I just dont like the behaviour of companies
like Sony, Microsoft and many others trying to put some control
their customer. They tries to make you stick and buy their products
and become dependent. Almost every companies do that of course, but
some are worse than others.
I'm not sure how that makes them bad fellas. But many feel as you do.
in the future if I want to sell my camera and buy another
brand I can keep my CF. Try that with Sony, if you buy Sony camera
now and buy brand Z camera later will you MS fit in it?
So you decide to buy a camera today with the intent of selling it, then buying another camera that will likely use the same format memory as your previous camera.

Isn't that locking yourself into sort of the same game?
 
I see my likely choice of next camera as an SLR digital. Every
single one of them use CF I and II and some use SM as well. NONE
of them use MS. So if you're moving to more sophisticated
photographic equipment you wil leave the MS format behind.
But this assumes that you are a one-camera user. Oftentimes, those who move on to an SLR still choose to keep a consumer-level camera because of its portability and ease of use.

And guess what? Quite a few of those guys are using Sony consumer-level cameras. :)
 
I've got no problem with their pricing philosopy. If they
artificially reduce the price of their cameras just to entice
people to their memory stick format, then so be it. For those of
us who already have a collection of memory sticks, we will benefit
from lower pricing on the latest Sony cameras.
It all washes out, doesn't it? For the user who first gets into Sony cameras, as well as for those who already have adopted them.
 
More research, less stories.
There's nothing in SmartMedia, CompactFlash, or Memory Stick that prevents sharing it among devices. We were originally talking about convergence, right? Memory Stick was designed around it, but it could happen with CompactFlash. Maybe even SmartMedia.
We're not talking just making Memory Sticks here (even there,
didn't you read the latest reports at c~net ?). We're talking about
application. This is part of the reason that Memory Stick media has
grown in two years to over 25%. Its numbers like these that is
swinging supporters, as was predicted over a year ago.
As I said, it could become a formidable competitor to CompactFlash. And it's set to overtake SmartMedia, and could even marginalize it. Convergence can happen with either CF or MS, depending on whether MS keeps up its growth and also whether Sony keeps up the pace increasing the size and decreasing the price.

I think we're agreeing here :-)
 
I think we're agreeing here :-)
I think we are. Maybe we're just approaching it from different aspects of what's happening.

I guess what I find interesting is that Sony was able to do much of this stuff on their own shere strength in the market. While it may be possible for the other makers (Sandisk, etc.) of other media to do something similar with convergence, so far only Memory Stick is getting it done, and that must be part of the reason for their current growth.

To keep up any realistic growth, however, Sony seems to realize that they can't do it alone. Hence, the recent loosening of their licensing deals.
 
I've got no problem with their pricing philosopy. If they
artificially reduce the price of their cameras just to entice
people to their memory stick format, then so be it. For those of
us who already have a collection of memory sticks, we will benefit
from lower pricing on the latest Sony cameras.
And if Sony keeps up the impressive growth rate, then in Spring 2002 we'll see:
43% Memory Stick
31% CompactFlash
23% SmartMedia

An encouraging thought, for sure. It'll make me feel better about the $150 I gave eCost for that 128mb MS :-)

If any one of the formats is ultimately going to "win", it would be great to see it be Memory Stick. It's the physically smallest, it was designed not to have any forward-compatibility issues, it has a system for organizing any number of types of media (though as I said earlier, this could eventually be implemented on another media format). Its one possible drawback is not supporting Microdrive, but as flash memory gets cheaper, I think that issue will fade out.
 
An encouraging thought, for sure. It'll make me feel better about
the $150 I gave eCost for that 128mb MS :-)
Plus shipping... don't forget eCost's whacked out shipping charges! :)
Its one possible drawback is not supporting Microdrive,
but as flash memory gets cheaper, I think that issue will fade out.
Now if only we could use the Force to see what a 1GB stick would run us and when...
 
Well, you cant have one type fits all but still, better than one type for one brand. Most of the popular brands except for Fuji are using CF and even S1 pro is using CF, with many brands are using CF, I'm in the safer side.

Another good thing about standards like CF and SM, there are not only one company producing them (read: competition), a good thing for customer. Sure Lexar is also producing MS but, Lexar cards are as expensive as Sony's, almost no price competition thus.
Homer
Arent there some cams only use CF or SM? U may still stuck with one
brand or one series.
One brand? no way. I use Nikon, I can switch to Canon, Casio,
Epson, Kodak, Olympus, Pentax, etc anytime and still be able to use
my CF. You can use SM for Fuji, Olympus, Ricoh, Agfa. One brand?
 
I think we're agreeing here :-)
I think we are. Maybe we're just approaching it from different
aspects of what's happening.
And maybe I'm just being too abstruse, as usual :-(
I guess what I find interesting is that Sony was able to do much of
this stuff on their own shere strength in the market.
Right. If almost any other company tried to develop their own format as Sony did, it would probably collapse (because few companies besides Sony have such an incredibly strong product line that it can support a media format almost singlehandedly for a year and a half).
While it may
be possible for the other makers (Sandisk, etc.) of other media
to do something similar with convergence, so far only Memory Stick
is getting it done, and that must be part of the reason for their
current growth.
Who other than Sony would invent laptops with Memory Stick slots, or an optical mouse with an MS reader? This is all part of convergence. If my PDA, phone, music player, camera, and camcorder are all going to use the same format, it would be nice for my computer to have a slot built-in to easily read that media (just as an example). Sony actually takes convergence seriously, which is a big factor in MS's growth (I think).
To keep up any realistic growth, however, Sony seems to realize
that they can't do it alone. Hence, the recent loosening of their
licensing deals.
Also probably a big factor. Let's hope it continues. Personally I think they should try to woo Olympus. They seem to be the only big camera maker left using SmartMedia. If they could ink a big deal, it could be a huge boost to Memory Stick… and possibly the death of SmartMedia ;-)
 
An encouraging thought, for sure. It'll make me feel better about
the $150 I gave eCost for that 128mb MS :-)
Plus shipping... don't forget eCost's whacked out shipping charges!
:)
hehehe… it came out to $180 all told, which is terrible, considering the listed price was $150 (20% overhead!), but I was happy since I was expecting more around $240 total. That's what I would pay Sony Style for the stick before any shipping or tax! What I was not happy about is that I ordered on June 1 and it didn't ship until June 12, and whatever remote place they shipped it from, it took 8 DAYS to arrive (June 20) — UPS Ground usually does MUCH better than that here (to their credit, I got a tracking number, so I knew exactly what delivery date I was anxiously waiting for). So I paid three weeks before getting the darn thing! Well, some of that time I didn't have the camera either (another story I won't bore you with, though it's in another thread).
Its one possible drawback is not supporting Microdrive,
but as flash memory gets cheaper, I think that issue will fade out.
Now if only we could use the Force to see what a 1GB stick would
run us and when...
No kidding! 640 high-quality images on my S75! (You can be sure I won't have upgraded by then, cause I don't get budget for these sorts of things very often…) Meanwhile, S155 owners will be lamenting how they can only fit 80 26mp images on their 1gb stick (it only came bundled with a measly 128mb), which will never be enough for a vacation… and others will be advocating the MVC-DVD300… after going through an ROCS with the S75 and a GOCS on the CD300, in addition to the F505V's BOCS, Sony will finally decide user firmware upgrades will save them money in repair costs… we can hope, can't we?
 
Not likely, that's not SonyStyle 8^)
the CD300, in addition to the F505V's BOCS, Sony will finally
decide user firmware upgrades will save them money in repair costs…
we can hope, can't we?
 
If i ever get rid of the S70 is just to get out of the Sony
dependency problem so to speak.
Memory Stick is growing fast. In a year or two, you may find that more than just Sony cameras are using it. It's much more open than it used to be. You'll be much less Sony-dependent because there will be products from other manufacturers using it as well.
 

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