Street shooting - spy style

This is going to sound absolutely bizarre to any of you who are not into street shooting, but I have wanted to start doing this for quite a while. There are two things stopping me:

1. The *istDS, while small, is rather conspicuous, especially when it is pointed at you.

2. I am physically the world's most unintimidating person, with the exception of some toddlers. People think twice before starting trouble with a six foot tall man, but when you're 5'2", female, and yet to hit the midtwenties, you become a target for every dillhole ever concieved.

So I was wondering how anyone did it? It is just a matter of having the hoohaas?

This comes up because as the alarm clock was going off this morning, I had a rather detail dream with instructions on constructing a purse with a popout circle. I could sit on a bench (of whatever), act like I was russling around in my bag, and be popping off pictures. It would be really nice with a right angle viewfinder, but I think I'm out of luch there.

Oh yeah, my other question. Anyone here have any experience with the old right angle viewfinders and any thoughts on jerrywrigging one to a DS?

Of is this setup just too ridiculous (and noisy!) and I should stick to the Zorki and hope nobody having a bad day and growing shoulder chip recognizes it as a camera?

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

Oh yeah, just FYI - people with vivid imaginations should avoid Folic Acid & B12. That was my most normal dream!

Tijean said:

This is going to sound absolutely bizarre to any of you who are not
into street shooting, but I have wanted to start doing this for
quite a while. There are two things stopping me:

1. The *istDS, while small, is rather conspicuous, especially when
it is pointed at you.

2. I am physically the world's most unintimidating person, with the
exception of some toddlers. People think twice before starting
trouble with a six foot tall man, but when you're 5'2", female, and
yet to hit the midtwenties, you become a target for every dillhole
ever concieved.

So I was wondering how anyone did it? It is just a matter of having
the hoohaas?

This comes up because as the alarm clock was going off this
morning, I had a rather detail dream with instructions on
constructing a purse with a popout circle. I could sit on a bench
(of whatever), act like I was russling around in my bag, and be
popping off pictures. It would be really nice with a right angle
viewfinder, but I think I'm out of luch there.

Oh yeah, my other question. Anyone here have any experience with
the old right angle viewfinders and any thoughts on jerrywrigging
one to a DS?

Of is this setup just too ridiculous (and noisy!) and I should
stick to the Zorki and hope nobody having a bad day and growing
shoulder chip recognizes it as a camera?

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

Click to expand...

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

This'll be of no help to your actual question...

but I avoid B12 like the plague for the same reason...that and it makes me extremely irritable and hostile (especially behind the wheel).

i do like the bag w/ camera-hole idea though (it be hilarious if you left the lens hood on sticking out of the hole) ...it sounds like some overly-elaborate thing i'd come up with (although I suppose my version would involve a messenger bag rather than a purse). you should totally try it.

Tijean said:

Oh yeah, just FYI - people with vivid imaginations should avoid
Folic Acid & B12. That was my most normal dream!

Click to expand...

--
Tennyson has left the building.

Tijean said:

Oh yeah, just FYI - people with vivid imaginations should avoid
Folic Acid & B12. That was my most normal dream!

Click to expand...

LOL, that's hilarious. Are you stressed out or something? We're lucky to have vivid dreams, some people don't dream at all (or at least do not recall their dreams).

For street shooting, the easiest way to be inconspicuous that I've found was with the cameras that either swivel themselves (sony 707) or have a swiveling pull-out LCD (Nikon 5400, many others). So while it looks like you're reviewing pics or something, you're actually snapping pics.

As for using a DSLR, I'm hoping to do just that with a ist DS. Seems like being the smallest of the DSLRs it should be pretty easy. Maybe use a wide-angle lens and not compose with viewfinder? Some people just go up to people and ask their permission, but you lose some of the candidness that way.

Unda Covalava said:

Tijean said:

Oh yeah, just FYI - people with vivid imaginations should avoid
Folic Acid & B12. That was my most normal dream!

Click to expand...

LOL, that's hilarious. Are you stressed out or something? We're
lucky to have vivid dreams, some people don't dream at all (or at
least do not recall their dreams).

For street shooting, the easiest way to be inconspicuous that I've
found was with the cameras that either swivel themselves (sony 707)
or have a swiveling pull-out LCD (Nikon 5400, many others). So
while it looks like you're reviewing pics or something, you're
actually snapping pics.

As for using a DSLR, I'm hoping to do just that with a ist DS.
Seems like being the smallest of the DSLRs it should be pretty
easy. Maybe use a wide-angle lens and not compose with viewfinder?
Some people just go up to people and ask their permission, but you
lose some of the candidness that way.

Click to expand...

I used to use my K1000 with 135mm f2.8. I was usually too far away for anyone to think I was taking their picture. With the crop factor, it is like a 200mm on the *istDS. Also, never stop longer than it takes to take the photo.

Actually the *istDS would be pretty good for covert photography of the type you describe. Typically cameras are fitted into a wide variety of packages from handbags to parcels, shopping bags to portable audio gear, anything that is normally carried in the street. You then create a hole for the lens to look through and it could be a straight cut out that matches the wrapping pattern or it may be behind and ND filter - just try to create it in such a way that you would have to really look at it to realise there is a hole there. Remember there will not be any light coming from inside your parcel or whatever so a cut out that matches a black wrapping paper or the lens looking through a speaker grille (for example) will not be noticed.

Attach a switch to your remote connection on the *istDS with two press buttons - one for focus and one for shutter release. Install your camera in your covert cover and fit the switches to it in such a way that they can be operated without having to do anything unusual (e.g. if it is in a handbag the switches can be mounted in the shoulder strap so you can press them while holding the strap as it hangs off your shoulder).

Now when the subject is in view press the focus then the shutter.

This will create some problems as if it does not focus in time the shutter will not fire. It would be better to manual set the shutter and aperture for light conditions typical for your operation that day. Then just hit the shutter release button when you get the subject in view.

Your problems will be getting the subject in the right position with respect to your camera. Practice fixes this. And making too much noise when the shutter releases. Be aware of this and either sound proof the container or operate in environments with a high enough ambient noise level to hide the sound.

Good luck. Post some results.

By the way, in providing these comments I do not condone breaching the privacy rights of individuals. There are many circumstances where the use of a camera as described is legitimate - it is up to the user to determine when it is appropriate.

Tijean said:

This comes up because as the alarm clock was going off this
morning, I had a rather detail dream with instructions on
constructing a purse with a popout circle. I could sit on a bench
(of whatever), act like I was russling around in my bag, and be
popping off pictures. It would be really nice with a right angle
viewfinder, but I think I'm out of luch there.

Click to expand...

Actualy Tijean, on ebay I have seen, numerous times, an interesting item listed. This gizmo looks like an add-on lens that screws onto the front of your existing lens. It has an oblong hole in one side of it and a mirror in it set at a 45 degree angle. This allows you to point the camera straight ahead, but take a picture of something 90 degrees to your right or left, depending on which direction you have the oblong hole facing. I found the concept interesting, but haven't actualy gotten one (yet). Something to consider, Dave.

Photographing people candidly has more to do with you learning how to be inconspicuous than trying to hide your camera. I spend a good bit of my days and evening photographing people in cafes, on the street, etc ... I've done it with Nikons, Canons, a raft of digicams, dozens of others over the years. The *istDS is an excellent camera for this.

I use a wide-normal or portrait tele lens, depending upon what sort of environmental inclusion I want. A fast lens is good to handle poor lighting, a wide-normal to portrait tele lens is good for focusing by scale and DoF rather than wasting time and exposures with autofocus foibles. Learn how to make your settings before you bring the camera to your eye, then learn how to do that with economy of motion and simple, direct purpose. Don't be afraid to engage the person you photograph as well... Most are amenable to flattery that you would find them a good subject.

My "Picture A Week 2005" project is dedicated to people pictures. There are only four posted so far, but more will follow:
http://homepage.mac.com/ramarren/photo/PAW5/

Godfrey

This is where the Nikon coolpix (5400 selling cheap right now) comes in. You can stand on the sidelines looking down and compose your shot on the screen that swivels so it looks as though you are fiddling with the camera. Have your metering set in advance Another way is to have everything set on the *ist and stop the lens down in manual mode or av. With a wider angle lens, you'll likely capture what you need without bringing the camera to eye level.

Don't forget to look at Imogen Cunningham's wonderful work speaking of the worlds most unintimidaing person shooting in the streets. She was a tiny old lady with a Rolleiflex which gave her that ability to compose looking down into the camera. A lot of it is in the preparation of the shot. Then as they say f8 (f8 yields lots of depth of field;easy on these cameras) and be there.

Good luck.
d

Tijean said:

This is going to sound absolutely bizarre to any of you who are not
into street shooting, but I have wanted to start doing this for
quite a while. There are two things stopping me:

1. The *istDS, while small, is rather conspicuous, especially when
it is pointed at you.

2. I am physically the world's most unintimidating person, with the
exception of some toddlers. People think twice before starting
trouble with a six foot tall man, but when you're 5'2", female, and
yet to hit the midtwenties, you become a target for every dillhole
ever concieved.

So I was wondering how anyone did it? It is just a matter of having
the hoohaas?

This comes up because as the alarm clock was going off this
morning, I had a rather detail dream with instructions on
constructing a purse with a popout circle. I could sit on a bench
(of whatever), act like I was russling around in my bag, and be
popping off pictures. It would be really nice with a right angle
viewfinder, but I think I'm out of luch there.

Oh yeah, my other question. Anyone here have any experience with
the old right angle viewfinders and any thoughts on jerrywrigging
one to a DS?

Of is this setup just too ridiculous (and noisy!) and I should
stick to the Zorki and hope nobody having a bad day and growing
shoulder chip recognizes it as a camera?

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

Click to expand...

Tijean said:

This is going to sound absolutely bizarre to any of you who are not
into street shooting, but I have wanted to start doing this for
quite a while. There are two things stopping me:

1. The *istDS, while small, is rather conspicuous, especially when
it is pointed at you.

2. I am physically the world's most unintimidating person, with the
exception of some toddlers. People think twice before starting
trouble with a six foot tall man, but when you're 5'2", female, and
yet to hit the midtwenties, you become a target for every dillhole
ever concieved.

So I was wondering how anyone did it? It is just a matter of having
the hoohaas?

Click to expand...

One day I had a couple of hours to wait for my flight home in LAX. I had my laptop with me so I set it up near an outlet, connected the remote cable and started up Pentax Remote Assistant.

I put my *istD next to me propped up at the correct angle. I triggered the shutter from remote assistant - so no one noticed the camera laying there. It worked great. However, I did not get any pictures worth crowing about but it was fun and wasted away a couple of hours

Ed.

I played with one of those many years ago, my uncle had one that someone gave him. It was sold in the old photo rags as a "girlwatchers' special friend" and so on.

They're a waste of time of time and money, in my opinion. The best photographs of people come from engaging with them and finding the way into their eyes and minds unobtrusively, not making covert snapshots of them.

Godfrey

darkgenius said:

Actualy Tijean, on ebay I have seen, numerous times, an interesting
item listed. This gizmo looks like an add-on lens that screws onto
the front of your existing lens. It has an oblong hole in one side
of it and a mirror in it set at a 45 degree angle. This allows you
to point the camera straight ahead, but take a picture of something
90 degrees to your right or left, depending on which direction you
have the oblong hole facing. I found the concept interesting, but
haven't actualy gotten one (yet). Something to consider, Dave.

Click to expand...

Tijean said:

Oh yeah, just FYI - people with vivid imaginations should avoid
Folic Acid & B12. That was my most normal dream!

Click to expand...

Unless of course they have macrocytic anaemia, inwhich case it might help

I like the Yashica T4 Super D for that type of shooting, since it has a Carl Zeise lens and a ground glass viewfinder on top of the camera so you can keep it in your lap and still frame your shot.

It also is fairly quiet when the shutter is released, unlike SLR's which make quite a bit of noise when the mirror flips up and then down again.

Tom

I love your photolog-pictures.

Tijean said:

This is going to sound absolutely bizarre to any of you who are not
into street shooting, but I have wanted to start doing this for
quite a while. There are two things stopping me:

1. The *istDS, while small, is rather conspicuous, especially when
it is pointed at you.

2. I am physically the world's most unintimidating person, with the
exception of some toddlers. People think twice before starting
trouble with a six foot tall man, but when you're 5'2", female, and
yet to hit the midtwenties, you become a target for every dillhole
ever concieved.

So I was wondering how anyone did it? It is just a matter of having
the hoohaas?

This comes up because as the alarm clock was going off this
morning, I had a rather detail dream with instructions on
constructing a purse with a popout circle. I could sit on a bench
(of whatever), act like I was russling around in my bag, and be
popping off pictures. It would be really nice with a right angle
viewfinder, but I think I'm out of luch there.

Oh yeah, my other question. Anyone here have any experience with
the old right angle viewfinders and any thoughts on jerrywrigging
one to a DS?

Of is this setup just too ridiculous (and noisy!) and I should
stick to the Zorki and hope nobody having a bad day and growing
shoulder chip recognizes it as a camera?

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

Click to expand...

--
Pentax *istDS and smc-da 18-55, bagged into Lowepro Nova 2 AW

http://www.sandiegodslr.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=55

A good article about the subject

--
.Sam.
Agfa 1680 ~ G1 ~ *istDS ~ DPR addict 4 years & counting

IMHO being a small woman is a bonus and i doubt anyone will have a go at you ... if you were a man it would be an entirely different thing.

I think your best approach would be to "hide in the open" and go over the top to make yourself look like a professional photographer.
wear one of those jackets with a heap of pockets and chuck a few lenses in them.

my DSLR makes too much noise to be a covert camera anyway so i have never tried to hide it.

As well as an istD, I have a Minolta A2 with a flip out screen so you can use it at waist level. You can also switch off all sounds so it is practically silent when shooting.

For street use I thought maybe something like the Ricoh R1 might be OK, used at its widest setting (28mm) and shooting from the hip. It's also black which would help.
--
Tony-H

Thanks everyone for all of your input! It has all been helpful and hilarious. So what I have learned is this: there are lots of really elaborate ways to hide a camera, and I will definately try some different tricks, but probably the best thing to do is get up the nerve to just shoot, either engaging the subject or being inconspicuous (not trying to hide, but trying my best not to stick out). I have a swivel cam (Nikon Coolpix 4500), but the DS's quality has really spoiled me. As for buying another camera (various types have been suggested) - I'd LOVE to!! - but, well:

http://forums.photographyreview.com/showpost.php?p=53559&postcount=70

I did yearbook for three years in high school and never had much of a problem standing on the sidelines of a football game between a screaming, cursing coach and a bunch of loud, sweaty jocks. But then, there was a simple answer to the "why are you taking my picture?" question in that case (that nobody asked because they already knew), unlike when you shoot on the street.

http://popphoto.com/article.asp?section_id=5&article_id=855

Some nice interviews with various experienced street photogs that might help inspire.

alan

Tijean said:

This is going to sound absolutely bizarre to any of you who are not
into street shooting, but I have wanted to start doing this for
quite a while. There are two things stopping me:

1. The *istDS, while small, is rather conspicuous, especially when
it is pointed at you.

2. I am physically the world's most unintimidating person, with the
exception of some toddlers. People think twice before starting
trouble with a six foot tall man, but when you're 5'2", female, and
yet to hit the midtwenties, you become a target for every dillhole
ever concieved.

So I was wondering how anyone did it? It is just a matter of having
the hoohaas?

This comes up because as the alarm clock was going off this
morning, I had a rather detail dream with instructions on
constructing a purse with a popout circle. I could sit on a bench
(of whatever), act like I was russling around in my bag, and be
popping off pictures. It would be really nice with a right angle
viewfinder, but I think I'm out of luch there.

Oh yeah, my other question. Anyone here have any experience with
the old right angle viewfinders and any thoughts on jerrywrigging
one to a DS?

Of is this setup just too ridiculous (and noisy!) and I should
stick to the Zorki and hope nobody having a bad day and growing
shoulder chip recognizes it as a camera?

--
http://www.apt131.com/photolog.html

Click to expand...

Tijean said:

but probably the best thing to do is get up the
nerve to just shoot, either engaging the subject or being
inconspicuous (not trying to hide, but trying my best not to stick
out)

Click to expand...

I find that engaging the subject often leads to a
'posed' picture that lacks spontaneity, or a refusal.

But I do have some problems with 'spy style', especially in parts of the world where taking a secret photograph is regarded as a kind of theft.

So I try and restrict myself to subjects who are 'public' in some way; for example street performers or street sellers. But I must confess to being tempted sometimes!

And speed is the essence, so the *ist D in hyper P mode plus a fast AF lens is the way to go.

Regards