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Lots of Different Mounts - what do they mean?

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Unda Covalava

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Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know there are many questions.
 
I am not going to help you with all the mounts as I have problem with it as well. But I know that you wont lose metering with any of these mount, DS and D can meter properly with nearly all lenses
 
http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/

Click "lenses"
then "K mount information"
then "Summary of the K-Mount Evolution, Names, and Features"

Lots of good information on Bojidar's pages. Worth a bookmark.
 
Thanks for all the info. So if your lens is made before automatic aperture, then P mode would not be possible, correct? Because the camera cannot change the aperture? Anyways, thanks for the roundup, and I'm off to check the other links.
WalterS said:
Just in short and from my poor memory: In the late seventies Pentax
changed to the bayonet mount which they called the K mount, as it
was designed for the K cameras (K1000 for example). At that time
they also had the screwmount bodies (Spotmatic) and lenses (usually
marked Takumar lenses). Middle eighties saw the KA mount, which
made automatic aperture control possible. Then came KAF which made
autofocus possible. Then in the late 90's came the crippled KAF
mount that made the aperture ring on the lenses superflous.

I left out the unimportant ones. Main point is that almost all
Pentax cameras and lenses are compatible and every feature that is
shared by the lens and the camera will be available.

I have an *ist DS and use a 20 year old K-mount lens on it.
Metering is spot or centre weighted (no multisegment - no big
deal). You need an adapter to use screwmount lenses, but metering
will still work (and focus confirmation!).
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

A lost ounce of gold may be found, a lost moment of time, never. - Donwulff
 
As another poster has said, go have a look at Boz's site http://www.bdimitrov.de \kmp there is a LOT of useful stuff there!

Just in short and from my poor memory: In the late seventies Pentax changed to the bayonet mount which they called the K mount, as it was designed for the K cameras (K1000 for example). At that time they also had the screwmount bodies (Spotmatic) and lenses (usually marked Takumar lenses). Middle eighties saw the KA mount, which made automatic aperture control possible. Then came KAF which made autofocus possible. Then in the late 90's came the crippled KAF mount that made the aperture ring on the lenses superflous.

I left out the unimportant ones. Main point is that almost all Pentax cameras and lenses are compatible and every feature that is shared by the lens and the camera will be available.

I have an *ist DS and use a 20 year old K-mount lens on it. Metering is spot or centre weighted (no multisegment - no big deal). You need an adapter to use screwmount lenses, but metering will still work (and focus confirmation!).
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
 
Direct from the source: Pentax' Lens Compatibility Chart
http://www.pentaximaging.com/products/cameras/lenses/compatability_chart.jsp
  • Basic differentiation in Pentax mounts is between K-bayonet
and M42 screw mount.
  • All K-bayonet mount lenses mount directly on the camera.
  • All D-FA, DA, FA, F, and A series K-bayonet mount lenses enable
all metering modes and patterns.
  • All M and pre-M series K-bayonet mount lenses can be
used with CW Averaging or Spot meter patterns in
Manual exposure mode. They can also be used with Av
automation, but only at maximum aperture.
  • Screw mount lenses can be used on the *istD/DS with an
adapter. With screw mount lenses, you can meter using the
Spot and CW Averaging pattern and use Manual or Av exposure
modes, but you must manually stop the lens down on the lens
both for metering and for the exposure as the *istD/DS cannot
operate screw mount lenses' auto-diaphragm mechanism.

Summary:

Pentax F, FA, DA and F-DA series lenses are the best fit to the *istD/DS cameras as they enable you to use all camera features, Pentax-A lenses allow all but autofocus features. All other Pentax mount lenses can be used with a reduced feature set.

Godfrey
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
 
Godfrey said:
  • Basic differentiation in Pentax mounts is between K-bayonet
and M42 screw mount.
  • All K-bayonet mount lenses mount directly on the camera.
  • All D-FA, DA, FA, F, and A series K-bayonet mount lenses enable
all metering modes and patterns.
  • All M and pre-M series K-bayonet mount lenses can be
used with CW Averaging or Spot meter patterns in
Manual exposure mode. They can also be used with Av
automation, but only at maximum aperture.
  • Screw mount lenses can be used on the *istD/DS with an
adapter. With screw mount lenses, you can meter using the
Spot and CW Averaging pattern and use Manual or Av exposure
modes, but you must manually stop the lens down on the lens
both for metering and for the exposure as the *istD/DS cannot
operate screw mount lenses' auto-diaphragm mechanism.

Summary:
Pentax F, FA, DA and F-DA series lenses are the best fit to the
*istD/DS cameras as they enable you to use all camera features,
Pentax-A lenses allow all but autofocus features. All other Pentax
mount lenses can be used with a reduced feature set.

Godfrey
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--

A lost ounce of gold may be found, a lost moment of time, never. - Donwulff
 
Supplement on the screw mount lenses, unlike the M and pre-M series, there is NO focus confirmation. So if you can focus correctly with your eye then there is also a whole lot of good lenses available!

klo
Godfrey said:
  • Basic differentiation in Pentax mounts is between K-bayonet
and M42 screw mount.
  • All K-bayonet mount lenses mount directly on the camera.
  • All D-FA, DA, FA, F, and A series K-bayonet mount lenses enable
all metering modes and patterns.
  • All M and pre-M series K-bayonet mount lenses can be
used with CW Averaging or Spot meter patterns in
Manual exposure mode. They can also be used with Av
automation, but only at maximum aperture.
  • Screw mount lenses can be used on the *istD/DS with an
adapter. With screw mount lenses, you can meter using the
Spot and CW Averaging pattern and use Manual or Av exposure
modes, but you must manually stop the lens down on the lens
both for metering and for the exposure as the *istD/DS cannot
operate screw mount lenses' auto-diaphragm mechanism.

Summary:
Pentax F, FA, DA and F-DA series lenses are the best fit to the
*istD/DS cameras as they enable you to use all camera features,
Pentax-A lenses allow all but autofocus features. All other Pentax
mount lenses can be used with a reduced feature set.

Godfrey
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
One thing about k-mount that still confuses me even after reading bdimitrov's site is the difference between K lenses and M lenses. Specifically when trying to find a highly ranked K lens. I see comparisons that rank a K/28mm over a M/28mm or A/28mm. Which are the K's that they are talking about? I don't see them on ebay, maybe because they are rare? How do you identify these first k-mount lenses?...Steve
 
There is a custom function to turn on focus indication with screw mount lenses (on the DS model). Frankly, I don't use the focus indication much anyway: I'm more comfortable with what my eye tells me on the focusing screen when I'm using a manual focus lens.

Godfrey
klo2005 said:
klo
Godfrey said:
  • Basic differentiation in Pentax mounts is between K-bayonet
and M42 screw mount.
  • All K-bayonet mount lenses mount directly on the camera.
  • All D-FA, DA, FA, F, and A series K-bayonet mount lenses enable
all metering modes and patterns.
  • All M and pre-M series K-bayonet mount lenses can be
used with CW Averaging or Spot meter patterns in
Manual exposure mode. They can also be used with Av
automation, but only at maximum aperture.
  • Screw mount lenses can be used on the *istD/DS with an
adapter. With screw mount lenses, you can meter using the
Spot and CW Averaging pattern and use Manual or Av exposure
modes, but you must manually stop the lens down on the lens
both for metering and for the exposure as the *istD/DS cannot
operate screw mount lenses' auto-diaphragm mechanism.

Summary:
Pentax F, FA, DA and F-DA series lenses are the best fit to the
*istD/DS cameras as they enable you to use all camera features,
Pentax-A lenses allow all but autofocus features. All other Pentax
mount lenses can be used with a reduced feature set.

Godfrey
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
You're right Godfrey! Thanks so much because I'm not that good in getting the focus with my eye. Now I can have more fun with my screw moount lenses. The Ds is really great!

klo
Godfrey said:
Godfrey
klo2005 said:
klo
Godfrey said:
  • Basic differentiation in Pentax mounts is between K-bayonet
and M42 screw mount.
  • All K-bayonet mount lenses mount directly on the camera.
  • All D-FA, DA, FA, F, and A series K-bayonet mount lenses enable
all metering modes and patterns.
  • All M and pre-M series K-bayonet mount lenses can be
used with CW Averaging or Spot meter patterns in
Manual exposure mode. They can also be used with Av
automation, but only at maximum aperture.
  • Screw mount lenses can be used on the *istD/DS with an
adapter. With screw mount lenses, you can meter using the
Spot and CW Averaging pattern and use Manual or Av exposure
modes, but you must manually stop the lens down on the lens
both for metering and for the exposure as the *istD/DS cannot
operate screw mount lenses' auto-diaphragm mechanism.

Summary:
Pentax F, FA, DA and F-DA series lenses are the best fit to the
*istD/DS cameras as they enable you to use all camera features,
Pentax-A lenses allow all but autofocus features. All other Pentax
mount lenses can be used with a reduced feature set.

Godfrey
Unda Covalava said:
Where can I find info on the different lenses that can be used on
the DS? When I look at adorama, there are Pentax K, AF, and
universal mounts. Lots of people talk about Screw-mount. Will you
need an adapter for any of these? What functionality do you lose
with an older lens? (metering?) With so many mounts available, one
would think that it would be easy to find lenses, but I can't find
a fast prime anywhere. Since the new ones are currently
discontinues I figures I'd look for an older one. Thanks. I know
there are many questions.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Steve Coombs said:
One thing about k-mount that still confuses me even after reading
bdimitrov's site is the difference between K lenses and M lenses.
Specifically when trying to find a highly ranked K lens. I see
comparisons that rank a K/28mm over a M/28mm or A/28mm. Which are
the K's that they are talking about? I don't see them on ebay,
maybe because they are rare? How do you identify these first
k-mount lenses?...Steve
Click to expand...
The K lenses are earlier than the M lenses.
I believe the M-series came out about the same time
as the M-seires cameras (ME, MX,...) and that they are a smaller,
more compact version of the previous K-lenses.

John
 
That's what I thought, but I can not figure out how to identify these early lenses. When you search on ebay for K-mount you don't get these K lenses, you get everything that uses that mount, K up to FA. Do these first lenses come onto ebay often and how are the named?...Steve
 
Steve Coombs said:
That's what I thought, but I can not figure out how to identify
these early lenses. When you search on ebay for K-mount you don't
get these K lenses, you get everything that uses that mount, K up
to FA. Do these first lenses come onto ebay often and how are the
named?...Steve
Click to expand...
They come up on e-bay all the time.
I usually just browse through the Pentax listings.
They're already divided by AF vs manual focus.
The listings usually say screwmount, A or M,
but if they don't, you can look at the pictures.
If the lens doesn't show an A or M, it's an older K.

John
 
Steve Coombs said:
One thing about k-mount that still confuses me even after reading
bdimitrov's site is the difference between K lenses and M lenses.
Specifically when trying to find a highly ranked K lens. I see
comparisons that rank a K/28mm over a M/28mm or A/28mm. Which are
the K's that they are talking about? I don't see them on ebay,
maybe because they are rare? How do you identify these first
k-mount lenses?...Steve
Click to expand...
The K lenses aren't identified as such on the lenses themselves. Instead, they usually just say "SMC Pentax". There are two ways to know whether any given mystery Pentax lens is a K:

-- If it does not have an 'A' setting on the aperture ring, and is not identified as an M and does not say "Takumar", but does say "Pentax", then it is probably a K. (Pentax's screwmount lenses all said "Takumar", but some of their cheapest K-mount lenses also said "Takumar"; typically those do not have Pentax's signature SMC lens coating.)

-- Compare to the picture and specs on Bojidar's pages. For example, here are the K and M versions, respectively, of the 28mm f2.0:
-- http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/wide-angle/K28f2.html
-- http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/lenses/primes/wide-angle/M28f2.html
Steve Coombs said:
I don't see them [K lenses] on ebay, maybe because they are rare?
Click to expand...
They show up quite often on eBay, though not nearly as often as Takumar screwmounts, M, A, F, and FA lenses.

The K series had a short lifespan. See http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/technology/K-mount/K.html -- the K series of lenses was introduced in 1975, then the M series was introduced the very next year, 1976. Of course, some individual K lenses weren't replaced immediately by an M, but still the average lifespan of a K lens was short compared the average M, A, etc.

Since it will undoubtedly sell for more than I can pay anyway, here's a link to a fairly rare K lens now selling on eBay, the 85mm f1.8:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3870346634&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I'm guessing it will sell for $300 - $400. The SMC Takumar (screwmount) version of this lens has sold twice recently, for $288.53 and $278.53.

K lenses that are highly regarded, but that didn't have equally good M successors, generally sell for a lot.

Greg
 
Unda Covalava said:
Thanks for all the info. So if your lens is made before automatic
aperture, then P mode would not be possible, correct? Because the
camera cannot change the aperture?
Click to expand...
That's true, but it goes further than that. If the lens was made before automatic aperture (does not have an 'A' or 'AE' setting on the aperture ring), you'll need to use it in M mode, and press the AE-L button to have the camera automatically stop down the lens to the taking aperture, get a meter reading there, set the shutter speed accordingly, and open the aperture back up for viewing (after which you can manually adjust the shutter speed if desired). Note, there is a custom function which must be enabled to use this feature, not sure offhand what it's called on the DS.

It sounds complicated, but it's very easy to get used to and in practice is a lot like shooting in either aperture-preferred mode or manual-exposure mode (whichever you prefer).

The reason that extra step isn't needed for lenses that have an A or AE setting is that when Pentax introduced that upgrade to the K-mount standard in 1983, they added an electronic means for the lens' aperture to be communicated to the camera. The generation of cameras introduced at the same time, such as the Super Program, could read the aperture setting either way -- mechanically or electronically. Recent cameras have dropped the old mechanical linkage, including the *ist D and *ist DS.

Cameras that don't have the old mechanical linkage, but which don't have a Green Button/AE-L button workaround like the D and DS (such as the tiny film *ist), can still be used with old, pre-A lenses by partially dismounting the lens until the lever that holds the aperture open is fully disengaged. Then, the lens operates in stop-down mode, just like using an old screwmount lens on a K-mount camera.

Greg
 
Greg Lovern said:
Unda Covalava said:
Thanks for all the info. So if your lens is made before automatic
aperture, then P mode would not be possible, correct? Because the
camera cannot change the aperture?
Click to expand...
That's true, but it goes further than that. If the lens was made
before automatic aperture (does not have an 'A' or 'AE' setting on
the aperture ring), you'll need to use it in M mode, and press the
AE-L button to have the camera automatically stop down the lens to
the taking aperture, get a meter reading there, set the shutter
speed accordingly, and open the aperture back up for viewing (after
which you can manually adjust the shutter speed if desired). Note,
there is a custom function which must be enabled to use this
feature, not sure offhand what it's called on the DS.

It sounds complicated, but it's very easy to get used to and in
practice is a lot like shooting in either aperture-preferred mode
or manual-exposure mode (whichever you prefer).

The reason that extra step isn't needed for lenses that have an A
or AE setting is that when Pentax introduced that upgrade to the
K-mount standard in 1983, they added an electronic means for the
lens' aperture to be communicated to the camera. The generation of
cameras introduced at the same time, such as the Super Program,
could read the aperture setting either way -- mechanically or
electronically. Recent cameras have dropped the old mechanical
linkage, including the *ist D and *ist DS.

Cameras that don't have the old mechanical linkage, but which don't
have a Green Button/AE-L button workaround like the D and DS (such
as the tiny film *ist), can still be used with old, pre-A lenses by
partially dismounting the lens until the lever that holds the
aperture open is fully disengaged. Then, the lens operates in
stop-down mode, just like using an old screwmount lens on a K-mount
camera.

Greg
Click to expand...
--

A lost ounce of gold may be found, a lost moment of time, never. - Donwulff
 
Thanks Greg and John. I just wanted to make sure I was not missing something. It seems like some ebay sellers don't really know what they have. I'll pay more attention in the future...Steve
 
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