Washed out pic on MAC but not PC?

Joe3d

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I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
 
Can you clue me in on why this is a problem? Do Mac's not work with the Adobe RGB mode? Is that a PC only mode? Does this mean the photograph is unusable on a Mac?

-Joe
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
I suspect that this is your problem.

--
my gallery of so-so photos
http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
 
Was your friend using os9 or osX?

Back in the os9 days, Mac monitors (due to video cards and OS processing I assume) were a lot brighter than most pc's. I'm a graphic designer and had to take that into consideration when optimizing images for websites. When osX came out, the Mac toned down alot and is a lot closer to PC's now as far as brightness and contrast. I'm guessing that this is the problem you're having.

Another thing that could be a problem is if your friend has a 12" Powerbook. All of those that i've seen have a washed out screen. I have a couple friends with them. They're not "visual" people, so they don't notice, but it really bugs me..

For what it's worth, your photo doesn't look washed out at all to me.
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
--
http://www.bhop73.com
 
I suspect this due to the fact that the two computer monitors are calibrated differently. And to add to the point, the Gamma used between the two platforms are different.

Macintosh calibrates their system with a standard Gamma of 1.8

The P.C. based computer uses a "Television" gamma of 2.2.

Why are they are different, I don't know. Anyone have any ideas?

raindog61.

=================================================
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?
 
For that reason a Windows user is not likely to see a good image when viewing it with Internet Explorer. IE, under Windows is not color-aware.

Try the following.

View this image, as-is, on your PC using Photoshop or some other color-aware application. View the same image on your friends Macintosh using Photoshop or Safari (which is color-aware).

You should not see any difference unless your setup is wrong, the Macintosh monitor is hosed or your friend is using some weird profile for the screen. And yes, the default Apple LCD profile is pretty good.

You will have a much better chance of viewers seeing the image as you intended if you Convert to sRGB before posting to the web.

Bob Peters
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
 
I am viewing the photo on a 15" Powerbook (Mac) and the only thing close to being blown out is the stack of papers in front of him, but overall the photo looks fine.

Jim
 
I'm viewing your photo on a 14" iBook and it doesn't look washed out, and my monitor isn't even as good as a 12". I am guessing that it is a color calibration issue. On your mac, go into System Preferences, then to Displays, then click on the "color" tab. If you've installed any recent Adobe product, or Nikon Software, you should have as an option, calibration option of Adobe RGB. Select that, and see if it makes a difference. My preference, actually, is to intentionally have what appears to be a "washed out" monitor calibration for viewing photos, because it tends to more accurately show what the picture will look like in print (because print, unlike a computer monitor, isn't backlit). Basically, lots of creative content professionals prefer the Mac because it has typically had much more accurate color calibration capabilities between various media (camera or scanner to monitor to printer). So, if you printed out the picture, would it be closer to the "washed out" appearance on the Mac or the "brighter" PC appearance?
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
--
So many things to learn and so little time. Does that make me a dilettante?
 
LCD should have a canned profile from Apple. And yes, I'm using a Mac with a 17 inch lcd.

Bob Peters
I'm viewing your photo on a 14" iBook and it doesn't look washed
out, and my monitor isn't even as good as a 12". I am guessing
that it is a color calibration issue. On your mac, go into System
Preferences, then to Displays, then click on the "color" tab. If
you've installed any recent Adobe product, or Nikon Software, you
should have as an option, calibration option of Adobe RGB. Select
that, and see if it makes a difference. My preference, actually,
is to intentionally have what appears to be a "washed out" monitor
calibration for viewing photos, because it tends to more accurately
Not on my system. I think you need to check your color setup.
show what the picture will look like in print (because print,
unlike a computer monitor, isn't backlit). Basically, lots of
creative content professionals prefer the Mac because it has
typically had much more accurate color calibration capabilities
between various media (camera or scanner to monitor to printer).
So, if you printed out the picture, would it be closer to the
"washed out" appearance on the Mac or the "brighter" PC appearance?
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
--
So many things to learn and so little time. Does that make me a
dilettante?
 
Can you clue me in on why this is a problem? Do Mac's not work
with the Adobe RGB mode? Is that a PC only mode? Does this mean
the photograph is unusable on a Mac?
Hi Joe,

I can't give you much of a clue, but unless your friend's Mac is set up for aRGB or Macs have built-in support for aRGB, I don't see how they could display the color space properly or any better than a PC without aRGB support.

For instance, my PC set up to work with sRGB, not aRGB, so aRGB images don't display properly on it.

--
my gallery of so-so photos
http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
 
He will have to view the image in a color-aware application. The Mac browser, Safari, is color-aware. I am guessing the friend used Safari. Perhaps Joe can verify this.

I hope I haven't added to the confusion.

Bob Peters
Can you clue me in on why this is a problem? Do Mac's not work
with the Adobe RGB mode? Is that a PC only mode? Does this mean
the photograph is unusable on a Mac?
Hi Joe,

I can't give you much of a clue, but unless your friend's Mac is
set up for aRGB or Macs have built-in support for aRGB, I don't see
how they could display the color space properly or any better than
a PC without aRGB support.

For instance, my PC set up to work with sRGB, not aRGB, so aRGB
images don't display properly on it.

--
my gallery of so-so photos
http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
 
There are a lot of "it depends" to this answer, but here goes:

As a previous poster said, Window monitors are typically set to a gamma of 2.2 and Mac OS monitors are typically set to a gamma of 1.8. NOTE that I specify the OS as being the issue as the issue is the OS that is being used, not the actual monitor for this part. Now, without any other software intervention (more about that later), a gamma of 2.2 will be darker than a gamma of 1.8.

This makes for the potential of files edited on a Mac to appear too dark on a Windows machine and files edited on a Windows machine to be washed out on a Mac.

Now, all the it depends:

1) Monitor calibration on editing and viewing machine
2) Viewing software support for color profiles
3) Embedding of profiles with the image
4) Which color profile you use
5) Light conditions around the monitor at time of editing and viewing
6) If the monitor in question is an LCD, angle of view comes into view.

If you edit the image or view it on an uncalibrated monitor, you get what you get, and it will look completely different on other people's monitors. At the barest minimum, you should use one of the software monitor calibration tools out there. It is built into the OS for the Mac. If you are running OS X, you should use the Displays System Preference to do this.

If the software you are viewing the image in does NOT support ICC color profiles, then you will revert back to viewing the image at the gamma your monitor has been set to (see above). For instance, on the Mac, at least the older versions of iPhoto DO NOT take color profiles into account when viewing or editing an image.

If your software you use to edit an image does not honor, keep, or embed color profiles in an image, then you end up sending out an image with no profile embedded. This is not the case here, but for completeness sake... In this case, it totally depends on your viewing software. Many packages will have a default color profile they use for images without an embedded profile. Whatever you have it set to will determine the results. Or, you could default back to the no profile, just the monitor gamma situation.

On the color profile front, MOST of the books and articles I have read strongly suggest using Adobe RGB as your color space and to stay away from sRGB. My understanding is that sRGB was designed for old (say Windows 95) era monitors that had poor color gamuts (NOT GAMMAs), so they were trying to emulate some color space for a hypothetical "average" Windows based system's monitor. Riggghhhtttt. :-)

View an image on a monitor in a completely dark room. Then view it on the same monitor in daylight outside. Guess what? :-) This comes more into play with different room lighting conditions....

Number 6 is kinda obvious, but tilt the LCD and wash out the image.

There's lots more to this, but I hope it helps,

Doug
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
--
homepage.mac.com/greypilgrim;

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it
means -- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
 
My Mac friend viewed it with the built in OS.X image viewer program. I'm not sure what it is called, but I can find out tomorrow at work.

-Joe
I hope I haven't added to the confusion.

Bob Peters
Can you clue me in on why this is a problem? Do Mac's not work
with the Adobe RGB mode? Is that a PC only mode? Does this mean
the photograph is unusable on a Mac?
Hi Joe,

I can't give you much of a clue, but unless your friend's Mac is
set up for aRGB or Macs have built-in support for aRGB, I don't see
how they could display the color space properly or any better than
a PC without aRGB support.

For instance, my PC set up to work with sRGB, not aRGB, so aRGB
images don't display properly on it.

--
my gallery of so-so photos
http://www.pbase.com/kerrypierce/root
 
The Mac is a OS.X and a desktop with a CRT Viewsonic monitor.

I'll have him open some of them up in Photoshop and see if it looks any better.

-Joe
Back in the os9 days, Mac monitors (due to video cards and OS
processing I assume) were a lot brighter than most pc's. I'm a
graphic designer and had to take that into consideration when
optimizing images for websites. When osX came out, the Mac toned
down alot and is a lot closer to PC's now as far as brightness and
contrast. I'm guessing that this is the problem you're having.

Another thing that could be a problem is if your friend has a 12"
Powerbook. All of those that i've seen have a washed out screen.
I have a couple friends with them. They're not "visual" people, so
they don't notice, but it really bugs me..

For what it's worth, your photo doesn't look washed out at all to me.
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
--
http://www.bhop73.com
 
Wow...

I opened the photo in Photoshop, converted the profile to sRGB and uploaded it to my server and wow.. the difference is significant!!

The following is the same image, no processing at all other than resizing and converting the profile from Adobe RGB to sRGB...

I see a big difference, do y'all?


Try the following.

View this image, as-is, on your PC using Photoshop or some other
color-aware application. View the same image on your friends
Macintosh using Photoshop or Safari (which is color-aware).

You should not see any difference unless your setup is wrong, the
Macintosh monitor is hosed or your friend is using some weird
profile for the screen. And yes, the default Apple LCD profile is
pretty good.

You will have a much better chance of viewers seeing the image as
you intended if you Convert to sRGB before posting to the web.

Bob Peters
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
 
How about this: have your friend open your forum message in Safari. Safari is color profile aware and on my screen the image looks fine (only washed out thing is the stack of paper, as was noted by someone else). If it does look washed out then it is probably the monitor that it is not calibrated. Have it calibrated by using the program suggested in another post (in the System Preferences). If it looks fine, then maybe Preview (the standard OSX viewing app.) is not color aware. I don't know if it is or not.

AJM
 
is color-aware. Windows users whould see a difference.

Bob Peters
I opened the photo in Photoshop, converted the profile to sRGB and
uploaded it to my server and wow.. the difference is significant!!

The following is the same image, no processing at all other than
resizing and converting the profile from Adobe RGB to sRGB...

I see a big difference, do y'all?


Try the following.

View this image, as-is, on your PC using Photoshop or some other
color-aware application. View the same image on your friends
Macintosh using Photoshop or Safari (which is color-aware).

You should not see any difference unless your setup is wrong, the
Macintosh monitor is hosed or your friend is using some weird
profile for the screen. And yes, the default Apple LCD profile is
pretty good.

You will have a much better chance of viewers seeing the image as
you intended if you Convert to sRGB before posting to the web.

Bob Peters
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
 
Well, actually, I do see a small difference. I assume my browser is color aware since I am using Safari :-)
The first image is slightly brighter. But I don't understand why.
Robert, you don't see that?

AJM
Bob Peters
Wow...

I opened the photo in Photoshop, converted the profile to sRGB and
uploaded it to my server and wow.. the difference is significant!!

The following is the same image, no processing at all other than
resizing and converting the profile from Adobe RGB to sRGB...

I see a big difference, do y'all?
 
Are there any color-aware PC based browsers?

-joe
Bob Peters
I opened the photo in Photoshop, converted the profile to sRGB and
uploaded it to my server and wow.. the difference is significant!!

The following is the same image, no processing at all other than
resizing and converting the profile from Adobe RGB to sRGB...

I see a big difference, do y'all?


Try the following.

View this image, as-is, on your PC using Photoshop or some other
color-aware application. View the same image on your friends
Macintosh using Photoshop or Safari (which is color-aware).

You should not see any difference unless your setup is wrong, the
Macintosh monitor is hosed or your friend is using some weird
profile for the screen. And yes, the default Apple LCD profile is
pretty good.

You will have a much better chance of viewers seeing the image as
you intended if you Convert to sRGB before posting to the web.

Bob Peters
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?

Here is one of the images (no touch-up done, just resize):



EXIF DATA:
Nikon D70
2005/01/23 12:02:20.7
JPEG (8-bit) Fine
Image Size: Large (2000 x 3008)
Lens: 70-300mm F/4-5.6 G
Focal Length: 122mm
Exposure Mode: Programmed Auto*
Metering Mode: Multi-Pattern
1/160 sec - F/4.2
Exposure Comp.: -0.3 EV
Sensitivity: ISO 1000
Optimize Image: Custom
White Balance: Auto +1
AF Mode: AF-C
Flash Sync Mode: Not Attached
Color Mode: Mode II (Adobe RGB)
Tone Comp: User-Defined Custom Curve
Hue Adjustment: 0°
Saturation: Enhanced
Sharpening: High
Image Comment:
Noise Reduction: OFF
 
I suspect this due to the fact that the two computer monitors are
calibrated differently. And to add to the point, the Gamma used
between the two platforms are different.

Macintosh calibrates their system with a standard Gamma of 1.8

The P.C. based computer uses a "Television" gamma of 2.2.

Why are they are different, I don't know. Anyone have any ideas?
Because Mac's were originally designed for prepress. 1.8 is the prepress standard.

You can adjust Mac monitors to 2.2 if you want.

--
Keith
raindog61.

=================================================
I took a series of photographs the other day, and when viewing them
on my PC they looked pretty good. BUT when I took them to a
friends MACintosh, they all looked sooo washed out, I was shocked!

Does anyone know why this is the case?
 

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