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9 point focus or focus-recompose
- Thread starter SFishy
- Start date
DoctorG1
Senior Member
The 20D , the model with 9 af points , uses Ettl II and that does not use AF points at all. they changed it from Ettl to Ettl II.
--
Rodney Gold
The nicest thing about smacking your head against the the wall is.......The feeling you get when you stop
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Rodney Gold
The nicest thing about smacking your head against the the wall is.......The feeling you get when you stop
Hi,
Also coming from F707. I have had mixed results with focus recompose on the 20D. I have used both center focus point and 9 point...still trying to decide on which is giving me best results. Hard to decide, since I have also been using the 70-200mm lens mostly without a tripod. Have not got the hang of FEL while trying to use focus recompose...Good thing I wasn't chewing gum at the same time. I'm learning...but slow.
Ric
Also coming from F707. I have had mixed results with focus recompose on the 20D. I have used both center focus point and 9 point...still trying to decide on which is giving me best results. Hard to decide, since I have also been using the 70-200mm lens mostly without a tripod. Have not got the hang of FEL while trying to use focus recompose...Good thing I wasn't chewing gum at the same time. I'm learning...but slow.
Ric
--Based on your graphic, it would be more like this???
than
???
Amy
Well, I think that's a leap, but not a bad one.
Here is a chart developed by a DP Review forum participant, Olaf
DK, showing the sensor sizes compared with the focus squares:
You will see that there are more "vertical" sensors than I had said
there were in my first post - my incipient senility, no doubt.
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
Another birder
Veteran Member
Ben_Egbert wrote:
[snip]
I just dont get why you would want to shoot with all AF points enabled - Other than AI- Servo which probably works better that way.
For normal shooting, I would find it rather pointless and annoying.
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http://www.pbase.com/timothyo
[snip]
I just dont get why you would want to shoot with all AF points enabled - Other than AI- Servo which probably works better that way.
For normal shooting, I would find it rather pointless and annoying.
--
http://www.pbase.com/timothyo
They aren't quite on the rule of thirds intersections, but very close. I tend automatically toward rule of thirds compositions, so I find that one of the focusing points at the "corners" more often than not fall on the part of the subject I want to focus on. That was definitely not true with the 10D pattern. Additionally, I find the joybutton much easier and more intuitive to manipulate while shooting that the 10D wheelie-dealie.
So while I always used the center point with the 10D, I don't always do so with the 20D. I might add that when I used a Canon F-1, I frequently used an all-groundglass screen without a center focusing aid for portraits, focusing on the eyes wherever they fell in the composition. Using a tripod has never made "focus and compose" very easy.
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RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'
S
Steven Sterne
Guest
...but it's just not the way I think! I think about what I want to focus on, what sensor will locate it best, and try to avoid high-contrast backgrounds that would mess up the focus...
Very interesting, the way you think. I will try to see the field of view this way next time I am shooting.
Steven
Very interesting, the way you think. I will try to see the field of view this way next time I am shooting.
Steven
I compose, select the point closest to where I want to focus, move the frame if necessary to get that targeted precisely, then do the slight recompose that might be necessary.
--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'
Ben_Egbert
Forum Pro
That is essentially why I do. Notice that I normally use a single selected point for lanscape. When taking family pictures, I am mostly in P&S mode. In fact now that I gave my 10D to my wife, I think I am out of the family picture buisness anyway.
I have never had a case where I wanted to focus and then recompose. That makes no sense for birds, and not much for landscapes unless you were using f4 or something. I take it that some find it useful for kids at play, but not sure why.
--For normal shooting, I would find it rather pointless and annoying.
--
http://www.pbase.com/timothyo
http://www.pbase.com/roserus
Ben
Thanks RD,
I supposed when I get out there and shoot, I will answer some of these questions myself, but I do wonder what Canon's intention is with the 9 point system -- was it towards the rule of thirds? Or more like Steven suggested (which I've dubbed "rule of wacky thirds")
Rules of thirds...
OR
Rules of wacky thirds...
Amy
I supposed when I get out there and shoot, I will answer some of these questions myself, but I do wonder what Canon's intention is with the 9 point system -- was it towards the rule of thirds? Or more like Steven suggested (which I've dubbed "rule of wacky thirds")
Rules of thirds...
OR
Rules of wacky thirds...
Amy
Hi Again RD,
Yes, your method is about what I considered. How do you find using the 9-point when it comes to selecting the right point itself -- I mean, has it become a fairly quick process for you now that you're used to doing it. I don't want to be fumbling with buttons and such all the time if it's a cumbersome process. I realize for any action shots, the 9-point system really isn't an options, but other than that...
Amy
Yes, your method is about what I considered. How do you find using the 9-point when it comes to selecting the right point itself -- I mean, has it become a fairly quick process for you now that you're used to doing it. I don't want to be fumbling with buttons and such all the time if it's a cumbersome process. I realize for any action shots, the 9-point system really isn't an options, but other than that...
Amy
Hitokirim1
Senior Member
You really can't beat the accuracy of center point focus. If you use 9 pt focus you just never know what the camera will focus on. I'd rather manual focus than use 9 point. The accuracy of focus and recompose depends on the focal length too. Wide angle lenses tend to be a bit generous while telephoto lenses are less forgiving. I've never had a problem though. Swiching focus pts isn't a very good option either. By the time you get to the point, focus, and then press the shutter the shot is usually gone(depending on what you're shooting of course... I don't think a landscape is going to run away from you but a candid might).
whatever makes you tick
--
mike
equipment list in profile
http://www.pbase.com/hitokirim1
whatever makes you tick
--
mike
equipment list in profile
http://www.pbase.com/hitokirim1
S
Steven Sterne
Guest
By the time you get to the point,
I do think that with practice, I can get better at focus-point selection, but not with the jog dial - using the grip in portrait mode, it's inaccessible for me. So I use the small dial on the grip.
Steven
Yep, Mike, that's been my problem with selecting focus points - I know that in theory, it'll give me sharper pictures. And it really does, when I have an obedient subject. But when I'm chasing kids around, I get more good shots using the center point, focusing and recomposing than taking the time to choose the focus point.
I do think that with practice, I can get better at focus-point selection, but not with the jog dial - using the grip in portrait mode, it's inaccessible for me. So I use the small dial on the grip.
Steven
I too am a firm believer in selecting AF points manually mainly because earlier EOS cameras including the 10D placed a huge bias on exposure and flash metering on the selected AF point.
But good luck to the 1-series users with no AF joystick to move those 45 AF points around. You have to press a button and rotate 2 dials to dial in the AF point you want. Try doing it in Servo mode. Impossible. A serious flaw in design in my opinion. Kudos to Canon for planting a Joystick on the 20D. Now you can even switch AF points while tracking a moving subject.
Just a few minutes of practice to get the technique, then just start using it. One trick about the joybutton--don't try to manipulate it with the ball of your thumb. Use the tip of your finger to grab one or two numbs.
--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'
The fact that the outer points are blind to parallel linear contrasts is often useful in separating the subject from a background with competing contrasts.
--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'
I think they were just spreading them out as far as they could within the price point. The only camera that did it deliberately was the Contax digital.
--
RDKirk
'TANSTAAFL: The only unbreakable rule in photography.'
Hi SFishy,
Kind Regards,
Brian
Brian
Digital Image Gallery:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/Brian_G_Digital_Image_Gallery/index.htm
The points actually are closer to the ideal spots for the Golden Section intersections. (The "Rule" of Thirds itself is just a simplification of Golden Section lines). Whether this was intentional on Canon's part I have no idea.
Kind Regards,
Brian
--
Digital Image Gallery:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/spiritmist/Brian_G_Digital_Image_Gallery/index.htm
Susan S.
Senior Member
For objects greater than 15 feet away, using the centre point and recomposing seems to work just fine for focus (the fifteen foot figure comes from the Canon literature - although aimed at the 1 series cameras rather than the 20 or 10D) - separating the exposure and focus functions as described in other posts may help under some circumstances where final composition is critical to get the exposure right.Coming from the Sony 707 I am VERY used-to the focus-recompose
technique. I would use it all the time.
In reading around here, and on the web, "focus-recompose" doesn't
appear to be the best method with the 20D (or other dSLRs),
especially at wider apertures. I've been reading about the 9-point
focusing, and how to select the best point.
So I have some questions
First -- do a lot of you still use center-point focus and then do
focus-recompose, and how are your results?
Second -- for those of you using the 9-point focus... do you find
you can do so quickly? Was it just a matter of getting used to
doing it?
Closer distances and wide apertures can be more problematic - head shots taken at f1.8 can lead to a nose tip rather than an eye being in focus, and if possible I use the focus point that gives the least possible shift in recomposition.Using the joystick on the 20D is pretty quick (I have the custom function enabled that gives me instant control over the focus points by using the joystick) For realy close up work manual focus and a tripod is best - although I'd love a focussing aid on the focus screen.
The only time I use multipoint focus with all the points turned on is AI servo mode. Here locking on to the object with the centre point and then letting all the points track seems to work brilliantly, in conjuntion with burst mode shooting. I took over 100 shots of my daugher body surfing, using a 90-300mm lens at 300mm and every single one of them was acceptably sharp straight out of the camera, despite the speed she was moving at and the possibility of locking on to other people or waves in the water.
Doesnt the metering link to the selected focusing point? So by using an offcenter focusing point you're weighting that more heavily....
I'm not sure I understand the advantage of switching to having the focusing button separate from the shutter......If you do this, when is the metering locked?
If you use an IS lens, are you saving battery power by focusing w/the * button because you're not engaging the IS till you hit the shutter?
I do find that I drain the battery fast w/my IS l100-400... I may have a (stationary) bird or animal in my sights and hold the shutter button down a while waiting for the right moment..
Quite frankly, the one thing I miss since moving to the 20D is the eye control .... it really worked for me esp when shooting wildlife. The joystick isnt much help, I find that it's too far toward the center...my finger hits the rim of my glasses(sure I know I can take them off and use the diopter). I'm using the rear dial to set the focusing point but still trying to find the most comfortable method.
tx
I'm not sure I understand the advantage of switching to having the focusing button separate from the shutter......If you do this, when is the metering locked?
If you use an IS lens, are you saving battery power by focusing w/the * button because you're not engaging the IS till you hit the shutter?
I do find that I drain the battery fast w/my IS l100-400... I may have a (stationary) bird or animal in my sights and hold the shutter button down a while waiting for the right moment..
Quite frankly, the one thing I miss since moving to the 20D is the eye control .... it really worked for me esp when shooting wildlife. The joystick isnt much help, I find that it's too far toward the center...my finger hits the rim of my glasses(sure I know I can take them off and use the diopter). I'm using the rear dial to set the focusing point but still trying to find the most comfortable method.
tx
For objects greater than 15 feet away, using the centre point andComing from the Sony 707 I am VERY used-to the focus-recompose
technique. I would use it all the time.
In reading around here, and on the web, "focus-recompose" doesn't
appear to be the best method with the 20D (or other dSLRs),
especially at wider apertures. I've been reading about the 9-point
focusing, and how to select the best point.
So I have some questions
First -- do a lot of you still use center-point focus and then do
focus-recompose, and how are your results?
Second -- for those of you using the 9-point focus... do you find
you can do so quickly? Was it just a matter of getting used to
doing it?
recomposing seems to work just fine for focus (the fifteen foot
figure comes from the Canon literature - although aimed at the 1
series cameras rather than the 20 or 10D) - separating the exposure
and focus functions as described in other posts may help under some
circumstances where final composition is critical to get the
exposure right.
Closer distances and wide apertures can be more problematic - head
shots taken at f1.8 can lead to a nose tip rather than an eye being
in focus, and if possible I use the focus point that gives the
least possible shift in recomposition.Using the joystick on the 20D
is pretty quick (I have the custom function enabled that gives me
instant control over the focus points by using the joystick) For
realy close up work manual focus and a tripod is best - although
I'd love a focussing aid on the focus screen.
The only time I use multipoint focus with all the points turned on
is AI servo mode. Here locking on to the object with the centre
point and then letting all the points track seems to work
brilliantly, in conjuntion with burst mode shooting. I took over
100 shots of my daugher body surfing, using a 90-300mm lens at
300mm and every single one of them was acceptably sharp straight
out of the camera, despite the speed she was moving at and the
possibility of locking on to other people or waves in the water.
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