Choosing a flash

The Canon remote system is pretty week. It's underpowered in the
studio and cumbersome on the move.
I dont quite get that , in a studio I use multiple flashes and a GN
of 50 or so is more than enough If it isnt then use studio lights
etc and those are far more cumbersome , assuming you are actually
talking flash power?
I don't think Canon's flash in under power at all. A 550EX is just as powerful as some weaker studio strobes, such as an Alienbees B400, actually. The notable bad thing about using such a system in a studio is the fewer number of light modifiers available. Recycle time can also be a problem when you need quite a few pops within a brief period.
If not , whats the problem with the Remote system ? How is it more
cumbersome? You have many choices , you can use an STE2 or you can
use any of your flashes to fire others with or without the main
flash firing. There is an 80 degree coverage and 50 ft range , and
that is conservative. You can set up the flashes exactly as you
wish re power etc. ANY multiple flash system is cumbersome on the
move. I have never had a hassle using the wireless system indoors
or out.
I shoot with Canon's wireless multiple flashes system on location quite often. I do not think it is cumbersome either, as it is the fast setup nature that attracts me to use such a system. Although I shoot in the manual flash quite often, I do use E-TTL as well. One advantage of E-TTL is that I can change aperture for DOF adjustment quickly without messing with the flash power all the while keeping my ratio "somewhat" consistent. I can also use high-speed sync for large aperture daylight operations that I can't do with a studio strobe. The only thing bad of the entire system is the IR communication, as it can be quite unreliable in a large hall or outdoor when there is not much of a bounce surface for the signals. I am waiting for a day that Canon would upgrade to radio wave, but, until then, the current system is the best compromise between portability and flexibility.

--
Ray Chen

Do what works...
 
i owned a 550 and got rid of it for the 580. glad to have done it!
The improvements of 580 over 550 are:

1. slight faster recycle time
2. 1.6x DSLR aware so the beam can be narrow
3. communicates battery condition to the camera for better WB
4. slightly more powerful
5. improved UI

The 550EX is fully capable of E-TTL II. Since I shoot in RAW so #3
does not matter that much. What else is there that is
significantly better?
Although I think the 550EX offers better bangs for the bucks, I still prefer the 580EX. In addition to the listing above, a 580EX is also:

1. Lighter and smaller.

2. Can rotate its head 180 degrees in both directions. This is very important if you do any multi-flash wireless photography, as one can improve the IR communication signal by better positioning the receiving sensor.

3. Has a little built-in catch light reflector. It is still too small to be useful, but it is better than nothing.
4. Single button for both tilting and rotating the flash head.

5. 1/3 of a stop power increment in the manual mode.

--
Ray Chen

Do what works...
 
My understanding is that the dealer's do not know what software version (M1 or M2 or M3) is installed in the SCA3102 adapter. I asked B&H about this and they have no idea or care. They just said that if the adapter was for a Canon it should work. However, according to the Metz web site the adapter for the 20D should be a M3 version (E-TTL-2). If the dealer's don't know what version thay are selling how can one purchase what one requires? Does anyone know of any dealer that knows what software version is in the SCA3102 adapter that they sell?

Dietmar
The Metz looks interesting. What's the big difference between the
54MZ-3 and the newer 54MZ-4?

As I understand it, I need to M3 version of the 3002 SCA adapter to
support E-TTL, correct?

Thanks!

Mike
 
So as someone buying a 20D, what would be the benefits of the 550 over the 420? I don't do flash photography all that often (I like to avoid flash when possible), but I know I've become accustomed to an external flash that I can bounce. I'd also like to learn more about fill flash and other flash techniques, but I know I won't be spending a GREAT deal of time on this.

Would the 420 be sufficient to start?

Amy
--

Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep.
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
 
i owned a 550 and got rid of it for the 580. glad to have done it!
The improvements of 580 over 550 are:

1. slight faster recycle time
2. 1.6x DSLR aware so the beam can be narrow
3. communicates battery condition to the camera for better WB
4. slightly more powerful
5. improved UI

The 550EX is fully capable of E-TTL II. Since I shoot in RAW so #3
does not matter that much. What else is there that is
significantly better?
Although I think the 550EX offers better bangs for the bucks, I
still prefer the 580EX. In addition to the listing above, a 580EX
is also:

1. Lighter and smaller.
That is nice.
2. Can rotate its head 180 degrees in both directions. This is
very important if you do any multi-flash wireless photography, as
one can improve the IR communication signal by better positioning
the receiving sensor.
I thought the head on the 550EX can rotate both ways as well although it does not go beyond 90 to 100 degress.
3. Has a little built-in catch light reflector. It is still too
small to be useful, but it is better than nothing.
The 550EX has that two. It can be pulled out straight as a reflector or cover the flash as a diffuser for WA shots.
4. Single button for both tilting and rotating the flash head.
That is a nice improvement.
5. 1/3 of a stop power increment in the manual mode.
I can see that comes in handy when one needs it.
--
Ray Chen

Do what works...
If I did not have the 550EX, I might have gotten the 580EX. If I need a second flash in the future, I could go with either the 420EX or the 580EX if the price drops close to a more reasonable level. The same thing goes for the 10-22 and 17-85 EF-S lenses.
--
Nelson
 
So as someone buying a 20D, what would be the benefits of the 550
over the 420? I don't do flash photography all that often (I like
to avoid flash when possible), but I know I've become accustomed to
an external flash that I can bounce. I'd also like to learn more
about fill flash and other flash techniques, but I know I won't be
spending a GREAT deal of time on this.

Would the 420 be sufficient to start?

Amy
--
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep.
http://www.something-fishy.com/photography
The additional features that the 550EX has over the 420EX are:

1. More powerful
2. Pullout catch light/defusser panel
3. Manual flash mode
4. Model light (lights up the subject for about 1 sec)

5. User control on FEC and second curtain, useful for entry level cameras which lack these functions

6. Can be either E-TTL (type A bodies) or TTL (type B bodies) - frankly I don't think this matters much today
7. Wireless master and slave (420EX is slave only)
8. Can use external battery packs

--
Nelson
 
If I did not have the 550EX, I might have gotten the 580EX. If I
need a second flash in the future, I could go with either the 420EX
or the 580EX if the price drops close to a more reasonable level.
I think Canon has priced the 580EX perfectly, as it is hard for me to choose between a used 550EX or a new 580EX with the current pricing. If the extra features are not too important for you, a 550EX is definitely the better buy. I do not consider a 420EX a good choice, as I shoot with manual flash often.

--
Ray Chen

Do what works...
 
It's not the same thing. On the 550 it is a wide angle diffuser. The 580 has this AND a catch light panel.
3. Has a little built-in catch light reflector. It is still too
small to be useful, but it is better than nothing.
The 550EX has that two. It can be pulled out straight as a
reflector or cover the flash as a diffuser for WA shots.
--
...Mike

'Fortune favours the bold' - Virgil

'Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go' - TS Elliot

 
Hi Nelson,

Thanks for answering, I appreciate the info... of course it leads me to more questions ;)

More powerful - that's kind of subjective, but I'll take your word for it that the 420ex is probably powerful enough for my needs.

Pullout thing -- I have one of those on my Sony external and never use it -- I found it didn't work well. The Canon make be a different animal, so I don't really know if I"ll miss it.

Biggest thing...

Manual flash mode - I suspect this can get rather complicated, but what are the benefits of a manual flash mode?

And what exactly are the benefits of a model light?

Thanks!

Amy
The additional features that the 550EX has over the 420EX are:

1. More powerful
2. Pullout catch light/defusser panel
3. Manual flash mode
4. Model light (lights up the subject for about 1 sec)
5. User control on FEC and second curtain, useful for entry level
cameras which lack these functions
6. Can be either E-TTL (type A bodies) or TTL (type B bodies) -
frankly I don't think this matters much today
7. Wireless master and slave (420EX is slave only)
8. Can use external battery packs

--
Nelson
 
The additional features that the 550EX has over the 420EX are:

1. More powerful
2. Pullout catch light/defusser panel
3. Manual flash mode
4. Model light (lights up the subject for about 1 sec)
5. User control on FEC and second curtain, useful for entry level
cameras which lack these functions
6. Can be either E-TTL (type A bodies) or TTL (type B bodies) -
frankly I don't think this matters much today
7. Wireless master and slave (420EX is slave only)
8. Can use external battery packs
The 550/580EX has a strobe mode that pulses the flash for multi-exposure speed study photography. I only used it once or twice, and I can definitely live without it. Are you sure that the 420EX cannot do the simulated modeling light? I always thought that is a camera function.

--
Ray Chen

Do what works...
 
It's not the same thing. On the 550 it is a wide angle diffuser.
The 580 has this AND a catch light panel.
I would like to see the difference. Here is what the catch light panel and defuser looks like on the 550EX:





--
Nelson
 
The 550/580EX has a strobe mode that pulses the flash for
multi-exposure speed study photography. I only used it once or
twice, and I can definitely live without it. Are you sure that the
420EX cannot do the simulated modeling light? I always thought
that is a camera function.
Ray,

You are right the modeling flash is supported by the 420EX as it is triggered by the DOF preview button on the camera. I don't have the 420EX flash anymore and read somewhere the modeling flash is a 550EX only feature. The following site confirms that the 420EX also supports the modeling flash. Thank you for the correction.

http://www.kjsl.com/~dave/420ex.html
--
Nelson
 
Okay, let me try asking this again based on what's been said so far...

As I said before, I have no experience with external flashes. I want to get one for some of the following reasons and uses:

More power
Better exposure
Better difused
Bounce flash
Outdoor fill flash

Not having used one before, I'm not sure what metering modes I'll end up using. I do know that at least to start (and when others like my wife are using the camera), automatic mode will be used often. I also like low light long exposure photography and will be using to flash to get more interesting effects.

As I'm reading everything, the Metz 54MZ seems to be the one to get. So, a few more questions...

What's the difference between the Metz 54MZ-3 and the 54MZ-4 when used with a 20D?

What are the pros and cons of the Metz 54MZ compared to the Canon 580EX?

Thanks!!!

Mike
 
Hi Nelson,

Thanks for answering, I appreciate the info... of course it leads
me to more questions ;)

More powerful - that's kind of subjective, but I'll take your word
for it that the 420ex is probably powerful enough for my needs.

Pullout thing -- I have one of those on my Sony external and never
use it -- I found it didn't work well. The Canon make be a
different animal, so I don't really know if I"ll miss it.
Here are pictures of the pullout panel on the 550EX.




Biggest thing...

Manual flash mode - I suspect this can get rather complicated, but
what are the benefits of a manual flash mode?
I have not used it personally. But it gives you direct and precise control of the flash output vs. the automatic E-TTL (II) flash controlled by the camera.
And what exactly are the benefits of a model light?
Here is the page from the 550EX manual about it.


Thanks!

Amy
--
Nelson
 
Okay, let me try asking this again based on what's been said so far...

As I said before, I have no experience with external flashes. I
want to get one for some of the following reasons and uses:

More power
550EX GN: 180 max
580EX GN: 190 max
Metz 54MZ-4 GN: 177 max
Better exposure
Better difused
Bounce flash
Outdoor fill flash

Not having used one before, I'm not sure what metering modes I'll
end up using. I do know that at least to start (and when others
like my wife are using the camera), automatic mode will be used
often. I also like low light long exposure photography and will be
using to flash to get more interesting effects.

As I'm reading everything, the Metz 54MZ seems to be the one to
get. So, a few more questions...

What's the difference between the Metz 54MZ-3 and the 54MZ-4 when
used with a 20D?

What are the pros and cons of the Metz 54MZ compared to the Canon
580EX?
The Metz 54MZ-4 has the built-in sensor which can be used as an auto flash on its own without the camera involvement. It can also be used as an E-TTL flash. The drawback would be future compatibility issues. We know that Canon can change its flash system protocols and that could break the third party flashes.

The 550EX/580EX can only be used in the E-TTL mode as they don't have sensors of their own. But the future compatibility is generally less an issue. With the 20D, one can set the custom function 14 to 1 (average) to simulate the auto flash produced by Metz.

--
Nelson
 
If you like the canon flash system in the studio thats great and will allow you to maintain less gear. When I first setup my home studio I purchased two 550s and a 420 as well as STE2. I wasn't real happy with them so I bought some SP Systems strobes with modeling lights and some more stuff and a Metz flash and sold the canon flash equipment. This worked until I moved into a bigger house with high celing and now had an appropriate studio environment requiring more power. I then sold most of the SP Systems stuff and went with two B800s and remaining SP Systems stuff for fill and background when needed.

Problems I had in the studio with canon flashes:

1. ETTL with wireless didn't provide consistent results. Each time you take a picture with different composition the exposure is slightly different. If you don't believe me try it. With studio strobes I set everything up with white and grey cards before the subject(s) or item arrives. Once set every shot exposes exactly the same and things go much quicker shot to shot. I know how things work in my studio now so virtually no setup is required unless I'm doing something different.

2. no modeling lights. I use minimal constant lights to avoid color casts and had trouble getting my D60 to focus and check shadows, etc... I have a 20d now that does better in low light but this was years ago. When I used that 550 high speed strobe feature to check shadows I about blinded everybody in front of the flashes. Really sucks.

3. Can't use a large softbox. Not enough juice or commonly available ring adapters.

4. The 550 and 420 don't have a uniform light pattern and must be used farther from the subject than normal strobes to get a uniform light distribution, which significantly reduces effective flash power unless you are photography very small things.

5. Power. My 550 put out about the same direct power as an sp100 studio strobe(except the distribution wasn't uniform with the 550 and is with an SP100 so the SP100 can be used closer to the subject significantly increasing effective power). With a 4-person group I could generally go 5.6, maybe f8 with one sp100 into one umbrella and two firing into a large homemade softbox for fill. My B800s are a LOT more powerful than the SP100 and I can usually pick whatever f-stop I want. They can also be moved back farther and still provide enough light even with a big softbox which is required when moving back to soften the primary lightsource. With multiple rows of people you can't really have the lights close because the shadows from the front heads cast on those behind at an angle and are very noticeable.

I also tried to use the canon flashes outside but the STE2 wouldn't work reliably and during indoor events to eliminate wall shadows or provide some fill to soften things up a bit. Never worked out for me. Either the slave wouldn't communicate properly or I just didn't have the time to setup the slave in a candid situation. Now I have two Metz 54Mz-3s(one on each camera, not used at the same time) with the M3 upgrade and a different studio setup. Maybe I have more money than brains but it works for me. Hopefully others can benefit from my experiences. If you get the canon stuff to work I respect your patience and quick fingers.
 
Problems I had in the studio with canon flashes:
1. ETTL with wireless didn't provide consistent results. Each time
you take a picture with different composition the exposure is
slightly different. If you don't believe me try it. With studio
strobes I set everything up with white and grey cards before the
subject(s) or item arrives. Once set every shot exposes exactly the
same and things go much quicker shot to shot. I know how things
work in my studio now so virtually no setup is required unless I'm
doing something different.
That is very true, and that's the reason I often use the manual mode. I usually use a flash meter in such a setup, but your gray card technique would work, too.
2. no modeling lights. I use minimal constant lights to avoid color
casts and had trouble getting my D60 to focus and check shadows,
etc... I have a 20d now that does better in low light but this was
years ago. When I used that 550 high speed strobe feature to check
shadows I about blinded everybody in front of the flashes. Really
sucks.
I never shot with multiple strobes before digitals, but I can see how modeling light can be essential in film days. It might just be me, but I value the LCD review more than the modeling lights. The simulated modeling light in Canon's flash can't beat the real thing, but, like I said, I use the LCD review.
3. Can't use a large softbox. Not enough juice or commonly
available ring adapters.
There are simply many more modifiers for studio strobes, period. I do not use softboxes for my Canon system but just umbrellas. If I have the time to setup the boxes, I might just as well be using my strobes. Again, it is the quick setup nature that attracts me, as Canon's system definitely has its limitation.
4. The 550 and 420 don't have a uniform light pattern and must be
used farther from the subject than normal strobes to get a uniform
light distribution, which significantly reduces effective flash
power unless you are photography very small things.
I never noticed that, but then I always go for the quick and dirty setup with my system.
5. Power. My 550 put out about the same direct power as an sp100
studio strobe(except the distribution wasn't uniform with the 550
and is with an SP100 so the SP100 can be used closer to the subject
significantly increasing effective power). With a 4-person group I
could generally go 5.6, maybe f8 with one sp100 into one umbrella
and two firing into a large homemade softbox for fill. My B800s are
a LOT more powerful than the SP100 and I can usually pick whatever
f-stop I want. They can also be moved back farther and still
provide enough light even with a big softbox which is required when
moving back to soften the primary lightsource. With multiple rows
of people you can't really have the lights close because the
shadows from the front heads cast on those behind at an angle and
are very noticeable.
I shot a 60 people group with just a single 550EX unmodified from a third floor balcony, so the power is there. I don't have any modifier that is large enough to make a difference (with any light), so direct on was my only choice.
I also tried to use the canon flashes outside but the STE2 wouldn't
work reliably and during indoor events to eliminate wall shadows or
provide some fill to soften things up a bit. Never worked out for
me. Either the slave wouldn't communicate properly or I just didn't
have the time to setup the slave in a candid situation.
That is a large shortcoming of Canon's wireless system, and I agree that it can be made more reliable. My favorite setup for event photography is a slave on a stand with umbrella. I can move it to places for a quick two-light (on camera + slave) pattern. It would even be more effective if I can get an assistant to hold the slave, AKA walking slave light. ;)
Now I have
two Metz 54Mz-3s(one on each camera, not used at the same time)
with the M3 upgrade and a different studio setup. Maybe I have more
money than brains but it works for me. Hopefully others can benefit
from my experiences. If you get the canon stuff to work I respect
your patience and quick fingers.
Everything is a trade off, and Canon's strength is in wireless E-TTL and portability. One must pick the priority for each job, and that's for sure.

--
Ray Chen

Do what works...
 
I really don't think the EX series was designed to mimic a full studio lighting setup with softboxes and so forth , its obviously compromised in that respect , much the same as an urban 4x4 can go offroad but isnt exactly a sherman tank. One has to accept this , it is however a great system where one can buy a single flash for a camera as a start and expand the flash system within it's limitations , your application and requirements are pretty extreme compared to what the original poster wanted.

Rodney Gold

The nicest thing about smacking your head against the the wall is.......The feeling you get when you stop
 

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