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D70/S7K shootout

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Guilherme Orcutt

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In the next posts I’ll be comparing the S7K with the D70. Absolutely no scientific methods was used, I just tried to keep the same light conditions for the same shots with each camera. In some I upsized the D70 to the 12MP SK7 image size, in other I downsized the S7K image to the 6MP D70 image size. Each post has several images, so the posts may take some time to load for dial up connections. You will see that the S7K is a terrific player; I can’t understand people coming to the FTF to blame the camera image quality, it’s really a fantastic player. I’m comparing a $300 camera with an $1100 camera. Is this fair? You decide if it’s fair or not.

I used USM 500/0.2/0 on all shots to compensate the softening caused by the downsizing process, except the full sized crops that I left untouched.

The D70 settings:

Sharpening – 0 (I found that setting this to -2 (off?) the images can have the Canon CMOS look)
Saturation – 0
Hue – 0
Noise reduction – Off (Only important on long exposures)
Tone – Normal (no special curve was loaded)
JPEG - Fine
ISO - 200
WB – Auto
Kit Lens – 18~70 3.5/4.5

The S7K settings:
Sharpening – Soft
Color – Standard
ISO – 200
JPEG – Fine
WB – Auto

Unfortunately the sun didn’t show up today, so many tests that could be done will have to wait.
I’m open for requests of specific tests.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

 
Both cameras have very different methods for metering light. The D70 has Matrix, Center Weighted Average and Spot; the S7K has Pattern (same as matrix?), Average and Spot.

The tests were done from my apartment kitchen window. As the kit lens maximum focal length is 70mm (105mm in 35mm equivalent) I started the tests with the D70 and tried to copy the same focal length with the S7K zoom comparing the scene on the LCD with the D70 shots. Both cameras were switched to aperture priority – f4.5 that is the lower aperture available on the kit lens with that focal length.

I’ll remember that the day was very overcast and the light conditions for the cameras were not very easy. Both cameras on all shots ware placed so the larger palm tree could be placed exactly on the center of the frame, so spot metering and center weighted metering was measured on that point. All shots taken within a period of 3 minutes.

D70 - Matrix
1/500s, f/4.5, ISO200



Except for the sky, I think the light on this picture is well measured. I think it could be 0.5 stop less.

S7K – Pattern
1/250s, f/4.5, ISO200



The first thing to be noticed is that the S7K choice was to use 1 stop above the D70, causing an overexposed picture. I also think the D70 choice for exposure could have being 0.5 stops less.

I don’t like any of the exposures, but for sure the D70 metering is more accurate. Another thing that can be noticed is the Fuji green on the S7K shot and a slight different hue. The correct color is from the D70 shot.

D70 – Center Weighted Average
1/400s, f/4.5, ISO200



This is not the best metering mode for landscapes; the camera exposed a little more compared with the matrix metering.

S7K – Average



This shot is clearly underexposed, the sky is ok but the rest of the shot is too dark. This is the mode that I most use on the S7K but I think the correct exposure would be something in between this one and the D70 matrix metering.

D70 – Spot
1/250s, f/4.5, ISO200



As expected, overexposed. Interesting to see that the exposure values are the same for the S7K Pattern, and the pictures are very different. I don’t know why, maybe differences on how the cameras handle contrast or maybe dynamic range. The same exposure on both cameras produces much more bright images on the S7K.

S7K – Spot
1/140s, f/4.5, ISO200



Much brighter than the D70 on the same mode. Width of the measured area? Maybe. I’ll do some more tests on this later.

As expected I think the D70 has a far better metering system. I wish I could have taken some shots of a sunny day to see if this is really true.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

 
I think this will be a fair play as both cameras have 6MP sensors. For sure the D70 is expected to have better resolution for its sensor size. Let’s see.

The subject here is the mess on my shelter. Tripod, both cameras switched for aperture priority, f/8 on both, as this is the smaller aperture available on the S7K, matrix metering on both. Little difference on exposure can be noticed on the shots.

The next two shots is only to see the whole of the scene, the last two are the 100% crops.

D70 – The Mess
1.3s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB is slight wrong for this shot.
S7K – The Mess
1.8s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB on this one is more accurate than the D70 shot, but the shot is overexposed.
It seems that even on these small samples the D70 produces sharper images.

Now the real test, the D70 image was upsized with PSCS (Bicubic Intepolation) to the size of the S7K image.

D70 – 100% crop of the shot above



S7K – 100% crop of the shot above



Ok, the D70 is quite sharper than the S7K, but for a US$300 camera, the S7K proved to be a fantastic shooter, it’s easy to understand why I’ll not sell mine.

Once again the D70 showed how different is the tonal treatment of the image compared with the S7K. It’s not a latitude difference, but tonal treatment. There are several options to control this, including custom curves that can be uploaded to the camera. It’s possible to resemble the tonal look of the S7K with those features.

After writing the text above I shot two more pictures posted below. Now the S7K shot was downsized to the D70 image size. This time both was at 70mm.

D70 – gas station
1/640s, f/4.5, ISO200



S7K – gas station
1/420, f/4.5, ISO200



Again, different light measures.
Flash tests is on the way.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

 
Guilherme Orcutt said:
In the next posts I’ll be comparing the S7K with the D70.
Click to expand...
Guilherme, very interesting stuff! I think the S7000 did very well - especially in the resolution test of the CD cases. I would like to see some 100% crops from the second resolution test you did, if possible. And also, were you shooting in JPG or Raw mode? If so, which converted did you use? Thanks very much, and keep 'em coming!

Nick
--
(Fuji s5000)
http://thegrapevine.brinkster.net/S5000-gallery.html
 
Im on the edge of my seat waiting to see the comparison series (D70 images I've seen so far are just awesome though).

Thanks for not ditching the FTF for the D70 forum - I think a lot of us are (one day) going to move to D70, after enjoying my s7k for just under a year now (and learning alot from you guys in this forum) Im thinking about the upgrade later this year.
  • tamaker
http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=profile&l=tonyamaker
Guilherme Orcutt said:
In the next posts I’ll be comparing the S7K with the D70.
Absolutely no scientific methods was used, I just tried to keep the
same light conditions for the same shots with each camera. In some
I upsized the D70 to the 12MP SK7 image size, in other I downsized
the S7K image to the 6MP D70 image size. Each post has several
images, so the posts may take some time to load for dial up
connections. You will see that the S7K is a terrific player; I
can’t understand people coming to the FTF to blame the camera image
quality, it’s really a fantastic player. I’m comparing a $300
camera with an $1100 camera. Is this fair? You decide if it’s fair
or not.

I used USM 500/0.2/0 on all shots to compensate the softening
caused by the downsizing process, except the full sized crops that
I left untouched.

The D70 settings:
Sharpening – 0 (I found that setting this to -2 (off?) the images
can have the Canon CMOS look)
Saturation – 0
Hue – 0
Noise reduction – Off (Only important on long exposures)
Tone – Normal (no special curve was loaded)
JPEG - Fine
ISO - 200
WB – Auto
Kit Lens – 18~70 3.5/4.5

The S7K settings:
Sharpening – Soft
Color – Standard
ISO – 200
JPEG – Fine
WB – Auto

Unfortunately the sun didn’t show up today, so many tests that
could be done will have to wait.
I’m open for requests of specific tests.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

Click to expand...
--

S7000 User
 
Well the D0 did a better job a matrix metering, and the S7k a better job at spot/center weight. There is no suprise hear.

Morris
Guilherme Orcutt said:
Both cameras have very different methods for metering light. The
D70 has Matrix, Center Weighted Average and Spot; the S7K has
Pattern (same as matrix?), Average and Spot.
The tests were done from my apartment kitchen window. As the kit
lens maximum focal length is 70mm (105mm in 35mm equivalent) I
started the tests with the D70 and tried to copy the same focal
length with the S7K zoom comparing the scene on the LCD with the
D70 shots. Both cameras were switched to aperture priority – f4.5
that is the lower aperture available on the kit lens with that
focal length.
I’ll remember that the day was very overcast and the light
conditions for the cameras were not very easy. Both cameras on all
shots ware placed so the larger palm tree could be placed exactly
on the center of the frame, so spot metering and center weighted
metering was measured on that point. All shots taken within a
period of 3 minutes.

D70 - Matrix
1/500s, f/4.5, ISO200



Except for the sky, I think the light on this picture is well
measured. I think it could be 0.5 stop less.

S7K – Pattern
1/250s, f/4.5, ISO200



The first thing to be noticed is that the S7K choice was to use 1
stop above the D70, causing an overexposed picture. I also think
the D70 choice for exposure could have being 0.5 stops less.
I don’t like any of the exposures, but for sure the D70 metering is
more accurate. Another thing that can be noticed is the Fuji green
on the S7K shot and a slight different hue. The correct color is
from the D70 shot.

D70 – Center Weighted Average
1/400s, f/4.5, ISO200



This is not the best metering mode for landscapes; the camera
exposed a little more compared with the matrix metering.

S7K – Average



This shot is clearly underexposed, the sky is ok but the rest of
the shot is too dark. This is the mode that I most use on the S7K
but I think the correct exposure would be something in between this
one and the D70 matrix metering.

D70 – Spot
1/250s, f/4.5, ISO200



As expected, overexposed. Interesting to see that the exposure
values are the same for the S7K Pattern, and the pictures are very
different. I don’t know why, maybe differences on how the cameras
handle contrast or maybe dynamic range. The same exposure on both
cameras produces much more bright images on the S7K.

S7K – Spot
1/140s, f/4.5, ISO200



Much brighter than the D70 on the same mode. Width of the measured
area? Maybe. I’ll do some more tests on this later.

As expected I think the D70 has a far better metering system. I
wish I could have taken some shots of a sunny day to see if this is
really true.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

Click to expand...
--



http://qcpages.qc.edu/~morris/POD
 
This time I'm supprised. what were the sharpining settings on both camaras?

Morris
Guilherme Orcutt said:
I think this will be a fair play as both cameras have 6MP sensors.
For sure the D70 is expected to have better resolution for its
sensor size. Let’s see.

The subject here is the mess on my shelter. Tripod, both cameras
switched for aperture priority, f/8 on both, as this is the smaller
aperture available on the S7K, matrix metering on both. Little
difference on exposure can be noticed on the shots.

The next two shots is only to see the whole of the scene, the last
two are the 100% crops.

D70 – The Mess
1.3s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB is slight wrong for this shot.
S7K – The Mess
1.8s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB on this one is more accurate than the D70 shot, but the shot
is overexposed.

It seems that even on these small samples the D70 produces sharper
images.

Now the real test, the D70 image was upsized with PSCS (Bicubic
Intepolation) to the size of the S7K image.

D70 – 100% crop of the shot above



S7K – 100% crop of the shot above



Ok, the D70 is quite sharper than the S7K, but for a US$300 camera,
the S7K proved to be a fantastic shooter, it’s easy to understand
why I’ll not sell mine.
Once again the D70 showed how different is the tonal treatment of
the image compared with the S7K. It’s not a latitude difference,
but tonal treatment. There are several options to control this,
including custom curves that can be uploaded to the camera. It’s
possible to resemble the tonal look of the S7K with those features.

After writing the text above I shot two more pictures posted below.
Now the S7K shot was downsized to the D70 image size. This time
both was at 70mm.

D70 – gas station
1/640s, f/4.5, ISO200



S7K – gas station
1/420, f/4.5, ISO200



Again, different light measures.
Flash tests is on the way.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

Click to expand...
--



http://qcpages.qc.edu/~morris/POD
 
Hey Nick,

Those last two shots from the gas station are 100% crops. No PP on them. Everything was done using JPEG fine on both cameras. As I sad before, the S7K is a terrific camera. We are talking about US$800 in price difference between them, quite a lot and the S7K did a great job.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

 
Good tests Guilherme - and exactly what I would expect. The outdoor tests were in good light. There were, of course, metering differences, but I would expect 100% crops to be pretty close in terms of resolution (metering differences can be fixed by exposure compensatoin with experience).

The resolution tests were indoors in poor lighting - hence the long exposure times. Performance in poor lighting is a DSLR's forte, so the D70's resolution looked to be much better, as expected.

Looking forward to more tests, also.

jm_mac
Guilherme Orcutt said:
Guilherme Orcutt said:
This time I'm supprised. what were the sharpining settings on both
camaras?
Click to expand...
S7K - Soft
D70 - 0
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

Click to expand...
 
morris said:
This time I'm supprised. what were the sharpining settings on both
camaras?

Morris
Click to expand...
This one doesn't surprise me, because I have always found the "soft" sharpen setting on the S7000 to be just that, soft.

--

Once in a while, please check back several pages in the forum, for posts that may have been overlooked. Thanks!
 
morris said:
Well the D0 did a better job a matrix metering, and the S7k a
better job at spot/center weight. There is no suprise hear.

Morris
Click to expand...
I agree. These results are about what I would of expected.

--

Once in a while, please check back several pages in the forum, for posts that may have been overlooked. Thanks!
 
Guilherme Orcutt said:
In the next posts I’ll be comparing the S7K with the D70.
Absolutely no scientific methods was used, I just tried to keep the
same light conditions for the same shots with each camera. In some
I upsized the D70 to the 12MP SK7 image size, in other I downsized
the S7K image to the 6MP D70 image size. Each post has several
images, so the posts may take some time to load for dial up
connections. You will see that the S7K is a terrific player; I
can’t understand people coming to the FTF to blame the camera image
quality, it’s really a fantastic player. I’m comparing a $300
camera with an $1100 camera. Is this fair? You decide if it’s fair
or not.
Click to expand...
Guilherme,

Many thanks for taking your time to do these comparisons. While it is obvious that the D70 is a better camera, the S7k is doing well. I think it should be obvious to anyone that the S7k is a great camera for it's price range. Again, thank you!!
Clyde
 
Guilherme Orcutt said:
As I sad
before, the S7K is a terrific camera. We are talking about US$800
in price difference between them, quite a lot and the S7K did a
great job.
Click to expand...
The S7k is a great camera.
Comparing photo resolution and detail is only a small part
of the differences between a S7k and a D70.

You wouldn't necessarily spend the big bucks for the D70 based
on resolution quality alone!

You get a DSLR because you want interchangeable lenses,
faster operation, and less noise/higher sensitivity.

Where the D70 will whip all over the S7k is at an air show, or
a dark concert hall with a band on stage!

:-)

~ Mr. Mantis ~
Finepix S5100
 
In indoors shots it's pretty obvious that D70 is cleaner, especially in the dark opening of the white thing above papers. Another as expected thing.
Guilherme Orcutt said:
I think this will be a fair play as both cameras have 6MP sensors.
For sure the D70 is expected to have better resolution for its
sensor size. Let’s see.

The subject here is the mess on my shelter. Tripod, both cameras
switched for aperture priority, f/8 on both, as this is the smaller
aperture available on the S7K, matrix metering on both. Little
difference on exposure can be noticed on the shots.

The next two shots is only to see the whole of the scene, the last
two are the 100% crops.

D70 – The Mess
1.3s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB is slight wrong for this shot.
S7K – The Mess
1.8s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB on this one is more accurate than the D70 shot, but the shot
is overexposed.

It seems that even on these small samples the D70 produces sharper
images.

Now the real test, the D70 image was upsized with PSCS (Bicubic
Intepolation) to the size of the S7K image.

D70 – 100% crop of the shot above



S7K – 100% crop of the shot above



Ok, the D70 is quite sharper than the S7K, but for a US$300 camera,
the S7K proved to be a fantastic shooter, it’s easy to understand
why I’ll not sell mine.
Once again the D70 showed how different is the tonal treatment of
the image compared with the S7K. It’s not a latitude difference,
but tonal treatment. There are several options to control this,
including custom curves that can be uploaded to the camera. It’s
possible to resemble the tonal look of the S7K with those features.

After writing the text above I shot two more pictures posted below.
Now the S7K shot was downsized to the D70 image size. This time
both was at 70mm.

D70 – gas station
1/640s, f/4.5, ISO200



S7K – gas station
1/420, f/4.5, ISO200



Again, different light measures.
Flash tests is on the way.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/klopus
 
With as shot params both and via PS ACR. That would be ultimate "mano o mano" :) And no upsampling/downsampling business would be needed, I guess.

So far tests confirm why between my DReb and smallish sidekicks like Pentax s4 and now Canon SD300 I never could make myself to be interested in this crop of "prosumer" EVF cams like S7k, FZ2, A200, C8080, Pro1, F828 etc. despite their Leica constant f2.8 IS goodies and all that jazz.

No offense here, I know how you guys enjoy your S7Ks, but with ultra-compacts and even e550 I could see at least the single clear advantage over DSLR. It's "go anywhere", "slip in a shirt pocket" size for which I'm willing to pay with noise, imprecise metering and such. On the other hand these EFV fellas are enough big and heavy while retaining same small sensor problems. At least S7K is a good value if DSLR is over the budget but others cost close to the DReb and not that far away from D70. I'm sure BigMike et al must be right here but the point of having DSLR as a main cam and an EVF as a sidekick still escapes me.
Guilherme Orcutt said:
I think this will be a fair play as both cameras have 6MP sensors.
For sure the D70 is expected to have better resolution for its
sensor size. Let’s see.

The subject here is the mess on my shelter. Tripod, both cameras
switched for aperture priority, f/8 on both, as this is the smaller
aperture available on the S7K, matrix metering on both. Little
difference on exposure can be noticed on the shots.

The next two shots is only to see the whole of the scene, the last
two are the 100% crops.

D70 – The Mess
1.3s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB is slight wrong for this shot.
S7K – The Mess
1.8s, f/8, ISO200


  • WB on this one is more accurate than the D70 shot, but the shot
is overexposed.

It seems that even on these small samples the D70 produces sharper
images.

Now the real test, the D70 image was upsized with PSCS (Bicubic
Intepolation) to the size of the S7K image.

D70 – 100% crop of the shot above



S7K – 100% crop of the shot above



Ok, the D70 is quite sharper than the S7K, but for a US$300 camera,
the S7K proved to be a fantastic shooter, it’s easy to understand
why I’ll not sell mine.
Once again the D70 showed how different is the tonal treatment of
the image compared with the S7K. It’s not a latitude difference,
but tonal treatment. There are several options to control this,
including custom curves that can be uploaded to the camera. It’s
possible to resemble the tonal look of the S7K with those features.

After writing the text above I shot two more pictures posted below.
Now the S7K shot was downsized to the D70 image size. This time
both was at 70mm.

D70 – gas station
1/640s, f/4.5, ISO200



S7K – gas station
1/420, f/4.5, ISO200



Again, different light measures.
Flash tests is on the way.
--
Best regards,
Guilherme

My photo album: http://www.maccocker.com.br/gallery

Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/klopus
 
for the moment that I don´t need to upgrade. I would like to, but I don´t need to. The S7k has stood it´s ground, and although I know my next camera will probably be a D70 it is nice to know that I am okay for now, sailing along happily with my prosumer doing just what I want it to.

Like so many here, I know that my Fuji will become a highly valued second camera in this house.
 
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