D1x is based on Pronea body???

I live in NYC and waiting like everybody else to get my hands on D1x. A dealer in a small store yesterday (after trying to push me into by Olympus E10) told me that D1x is a bad camera because it is based on Nikon's APS Pronea body. I said that it is crazy, that if anything D1 series camera's
look like F100 with a grib, and he said that I was wrong.

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it is so, is it bad???

Hello Igor

Don't be bamboozled, there are light years of difference between the two cameras. He is simply conning you...ROYALLY.

Stephen

Igor Shpak said:

I live in NYC and waiting like everybody else to get my hands on
D1x. A dealer in a small store yesterday (after trying to push me
into by Olympus E10) told me that D1x is a bad camera because it is
based on Nikon's APS Pronea body. I said that it is crazy, that if
anything D1 series camera's
look like F100 with a grib, and he said that I was wrong.

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it
is so, is it bad???

Click to expand...

Igor Shpak said:

I live in NYC and waiting like everybody else to get my hands on
D1x. A dealer in a small store yesterday (after trying to push me
into by Olympus E10) told me that D1x is a bad camera because it is
based on Nikon's APS Pronea body. I said that it is crazy, that if
anything D1 series camera's
look like F100 with a grib, and he said that I was wrong.

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it
is so, is it bad???

Click to expand...

The D1, D1x, and D1h have nothing in common with the Pronea. Make a note that the dealer you were talking to is either a moron or a crook.

The Nikon D body is basically an F100 with a vertical handgrip, except that it is modified to include the metering system from the F5 and is made of magnesium to save weight. I may be wrong, but I didn't think either the F100 or the F5 were magnesium.

The Nikon D series uses Nikon's top of the line AF and AE systems and works correctly with all Nikon lenses (but requires special speedlights).

The Pronea 6i is the best APS camera ever built, but it has a lower grade Nikon AF and AE system (from the N70 or N90, I think) in a body with a lot of plastic. It is compatible with all Nikon lenses, but does not support the most advanced speedlight functions.

The only digital cameras ever built based on the Pronea were the (now discontinued) Kodak DCS 315 and 330. Both took excellent pictures in the ISO 100-400 range, but they were certainly less durable than the D1 less well integrated between the digital systems and the camera systems. And the 315 had an amazing 2.6x cropping of the field of view.

Nikon's Pronea 6i and Pronea S have (imho) been handicapped by being marketed with the IX-Nikkor lenses, which have modest performance to say the least. The 24-70mm IX-Nikkor is especially horrible. For the same price you can put a 50mm/1.4 AF-D Nikkor on the camera and see what APS format can actually do. It's not as bad as you probably think, but the D1 equals or beats APS film at all ISO.

...Dan

As far as photo stores in NYC go, steer clear of all of them but
B&H. I am pretty sure a few folx would post something about
half-way decent experience they had @ other outlets in Big Apple,
but take my advice and save yourself time, money & aggravation.

Rashid Karimov said:

As far as photo stores in NYC go, steer clear of all of them but
B&H. I am pretty sure a few folx would post something about
half-way decent experience they had @ other outlets in Big Apple,
but take my advice and save yourself time, money & aggravation.

Click to expand...

In addition to B&H, Adorama Camera is thoroughly professional and trustworthy. I am sure there are other smaller outfits, but most of the other big ones have a bad reputation. You can also consult:

http://www.resellerratings.com

At least for Internet based sales feedback.

...Dan

Definitely not true.

There is a rumor a while back that Nikon is considering a prosumer digital SLR based on Pronea body. Considering the D1/HX CCD size is similar to the APS frame size, this could make sense.

Igor Shpak said:

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it
is so, is it bad???

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for all of your replies. I knew that the dealer was making this story up, because he was trying to push me to by Olympus E10. And was saying all the bad things about Nikons.

Thanks againg to all of you,

Igor

http://www.igorshpak.com/hobbies/photo/photo.html

He was trying to puch you into an E-10 because it's in the store and he'd make a few bucks on it. The E-10 is a good camera but not on the D1 level.

After rapping with a few Nikon reps (I work in a camera shop...which will remain un-named) they told me that the D-series bodies were F100 + F5 hybrid bodies. They took attributes from both cameras into the D-series (and actually I like the D bodies better than the F-Series...just personal preference.) Both the F-100 and F5 are Magnesium Alloy bodies as are the D1's. From the looks of it, they used the base F5 body with the F-100 viewfinder (non-removable) and shudder. The front of the body is a different design altogether, while the back of the D's is reminiscent of the F5.

I could honestly say that if they went in either direction exclusively...it's still a hell of a camera. But I'd take a Pronea body over the Silly S1-Pro N60 Body anyday! Fuji could have at least used the N80 base for the S1-Pro....what's this world coming to?

Thanks.

Very informative!

Curtner said:

Definitely not true.

There is a rumor a while back that Nikon is considering a prosumer
digital SLR based on Pronea body. Considering the D1/HX CCD size is
similar to the APS frame size, this could make sense.

Click to expand...

Interesting - was expecting something like this and now I see it is already done by Kodak and discontinued. Might make a viable stepping-stone to the D1X class machine -- the step from the CP is too giant a move for too many.

Yes, very interesting.

Ger Bee said:

Curtner said:

Definitely not true.

There is a rumor a while back that Nikon is considering a prosumer
digital SLR based on Pronea body. Considering the D1/HX CCD size is
similar to the APS frame size, this could make sense.

Click to expand...

Interesting - was expecting something like this and now I see it is
already done by Kodak and discontinued. Might make a viable
stepping-stone to the D1X class machine -- the step from the CP is
too giant a move for too many.

Yes, very interesting.

Click to expand...

Well, the Kodaks were large cameras about twice the size and weight of a Pronea. If Nikon did it, I assume they'd make everything fit into the Pronea package. That would be quite a trick, but interestingly the Pronea 6i film camera has a huge LCD on the back for controlling all the camera functions.

...Dan

Dan Massey said:

Igor Shpak said:

I live in NYC and waiting like everybody else to get my hands on
D1x. A dealer in a small store yesterday (after trying to push me
into by Olympus E10) told me that D1x is a bad camera because it is
based on Nikon's APS Pronea body. I said that it is crazy, that if
anything D1 series camera's
look like F100 with a grib, and he said that I was wrong.

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it
is so, is it bad???

Click to expand...

The D1, D1x, and D1h have nothing in common with the Pronea. Make a
note that the dealer you were talking to is either a moron or a
crook.

The Nikon D body is basically an F100 with a vertical handgrip,
except that it is modified to include the metering system from the
F5 and is made of magnesium to save weight. I may be wrong, but I
didn't think either the F100 or the F5 were magnesium.

The Nikon D series uses Nikon's top of the line AF and AE systems
and works correctly with all Nikon lenses (but requires special
speedlights).

The Pronea 6i is the best APS camera ever built, but it has a lower
grade Nikon AF and AE system (from the N70 or N90, I think) in a
body with a lot of plastic. It is compatible with all Nikon lenses,
but does not support the most advanced speedlight functions.

The only digital cameras ever built based on the Pronea were the
(now discontinued) Kodak DCS 315 and 330. Both took excellent
pictures in the ISO 100-400 range, but they were certainly less
durable than the D1 less well integrated between the digital
systems and the camera systems. And the 315 had an amazing 2.6x
cropping of the field of view.

Nikon's Pronea 6i and Pronea S have (imho) been handicapped by
being marketed with the IX-Nikkor lenses, which have modest
performance to say the least. The 24-70mm IX-Nikkor is especially
horrible. For the same price you can put a 50mm/1.4 AF-D Nikkor on
the camera and see what APS format can actually do. It's not as bad
as you probably think, but the D1 equals or beats APS film at all
ISO.

Click to expand...

Are u serious? D1 EQUALS? or beats APS film? I think I am really a proud owner of ProneaS. It get both IX-Nikkor lens and body quite cheap. Still like it though. I think D1 should be far better than the pronea , isnt it? If it is EQUALs OR Beat APS, what about regualr 35mm SLR? How does it compare to 35mm SLR that we can get under $500 with lens?

Member said:

...Dan

Click to expand...

Sorry to ask this silly question, I am new in photography. Why a camera body so important? When we say a camera is based on xyz body, what does it really mean? they have sth in common?what are they?

Joe Hoddinott said:

He was trying to puch you into an E-10 because it's in the store
and he'd make a few bucks on it. The E-10 is a good camera but not
on the D1 level.

After rapping with a few Nikon reps (I work in a camera
shop...which will remain un-named) they told me that the D-series
bodies were F100 + F5 hybrid bodies. They took attributes from
both cameras into the D-series (and actually I like the D bodies
better than the F-Series...just personal preference.) Both the
F-100 and F5 are Magnesium Alloy bodies as are the D1's. From the
looks of it, they used the base F5 body with the F-100 viewfinder
(non-removable) and shudder. The front of the body is a different
design altogether, while the back of the D's is reminiscent of the
F5.

I could honestly say that if they went in either direction
exclusively...it's still a hell of a camera. But I'd take a Pronea
body over the Silly S1-Pro N60 Body anyday! Fuji could have at
least used the N80 base for the S1-Pro....what's this world coming
to?

Click to expand...

NyLazyman said:

Are u serious? D1 EQUALS? or beats APS film? I think I am really a
proud owner of ProneaS. It get both IX-Nikkor lens and body quite
cheap. Still like it though. I think D1 should be far better than
the pronea , isnt it? If it is EQUALs OR Beat APS, what about
regualr 35mm SLR? How does it compare to 35mm SLR that we can get
under $500 with lens?

Click to expand...

There is no question that digital photography is a vastly more expensive way to take one 24 exposure roll of the kids in the pool every summer.

Digital makes no pretense of being remotely cost competitive to film except for people who take hundreds of rolls a year (or even a month).

People pay for digital because the control it gives them over the results is far better than anything they can get from a photo lab for any reasonable price.

People pay for pro digital cameras, like the D1, for the same reason they pay for any pro camera--for durability, reliability, flexibility, and capabilities vastly greater than a cheap SLR.

Sometimes the obvious needs to be restated.

...Dan

This just in:
BR Newz Wire:

"Nikon's latest digital SLR,the D1x, is said to use
wood-burning steam engine."

I'll wait for D2

Igor Shpak said:

I live in NYC and waiting like everybody else to get my hands on
D1x. A dealer in a small store yesterday (after trying to push me
into by Olympus E10) told me that D1x is a bad camera because it is
based on Nikon's APS Pronea body. I said that it is crazy, that if
anything D1 series camera's
look like F100 with a grib, and he said that I was wrong.

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it
is so, is it bad???

Click to expand...

NyLazyman said:

Sorry to ask this silly question, I am new in photography. Why a
camera body so important? When we say a camera is based on xyz
body, what does it really mean? they have sth in common?what are
they?

Click to expand...

It means that the D series has the attributes of 2 very good F series film SLR's. There are quite a few differences between the two physically, and some features of both can be found on the D series. The major difference between the two is size....the D series is reminiscent of the F5 because it has a vertical shutter grip built in...but the eyepiece is from the F100 (it is non interchangeable, for a good reason....keep ccd as covered as possible.) The rest are subtle nuances that are just fun to look for. All these camera bodies utalize a magnesium alloy base, with rubber and plastic on the outside. This makes the camera's very rugged, and Ideal for use in a harsh environment. Watch the Discovery channel whenever they have a wildlife special on....99.999% of the time the photographer is using a Nikon F series (or D series) for this reason (among others.)

Joe, I have a Pro S1. Image quality is superb, but I agree with you about the crap N60 body. However, as digital cameras seem to improve on almost a daily basis, why spend thousands extra on a camera body, when the digital part of it will be out of date in under 2 years time. I plan to keep my Pro S1 for a couple of years, and see what Fuji, Canon, or Nikon come out with next. Body quality is only important if you are a heavy handed tosser. Also, I wouldn't really like to drop any digital camera, no matter how well made the body is.

Joe Hoddinott said:

He was trying to puch you into an E-10 because it's in the store
and he'd make a few bucks on it. The E-10 is a good camera but not
on the D1 level.

After rapping with a few Nikon reps (I work in a camera
shop...which will remain un-named) they told me that the D-series
bodies were F100 + F5 hybrid bodies. They took attributes from
both cameras into the D-series (and actually I like the D bodies
better than the F-Series...just personal preference.) Both the
F-100 and F5 are Magnesium Alloy bodies as are the D1's. From the
looks of it, they used the base F5 body with the F-100 viewfinder
(non-removable) and shudder. The front of the body is a different
design altogether, while the back of the D's is reminiscent of the
F5.

I could honestly say that if they went in either direction
exclusively...it's still a hell of a camera. But I'd take a Pronea
body over the Silly S1-Pro N60 Body anyday! Fuji could have at
least used the N80 base for the S1-Pro....what's this world coming
to?

Click to expand...

Oh, I agree...the S1 has exceptional image quality. I had the pleasure of owning one for a weekend and shot everything I could think of...and loved the results - mostly.

My major beef with the N60 body is not only the construction...but the pop up flash. The N60 was designed to be an entry level SLR that has features that could accomodate a complete beginner (never shot an SLR before) and an advanced ameture (Not a paid professional.) Because of the scenic modes and pop up flash, the camera was intended to be used as a snap shot camera as well. The flash was such a poor design that it makes portrait snap shots impossible. It's a good camera for those purposes...but when Fuji bought the system they should have realized this and either removed the flash or replaced it. By keeping the scenic modes (idiot modes is what I call them jokingly) and the pop up flash they opened the door for the S1 to be used by both Pros and ametures. Something I decided to use was that pop up flash for just that - snap shots of family. Every shot within 10 feet is completely blown out...I had to set the compensation to -2.5 to get decent results. Not good in my book.

I think that Fuji should have used the N80 body as their base instead to correct a few issues. (I'm sure they had many many reasons for doing what they did that will remain behind closed doors, but we are free to hash it out here for fun.) Namely the addition of the best TTL pop up flash I've ever seen...and no scenic modes. The body is a bit more rugged but nothing ground breaking. I can't remember if Fuji implemented a cable release system on the S1, but I know that the N60 lacks one....who can survive without a cable release?

It's just stuff like that that bugs me about the S1...it seems that they were oh so close to having the perfect digicam...but the body limitations held it down.

Eric said:

Joe, I have a Pro S1. Image quality is superb, but I agree with you
about the crap N60 body. However, as digital cameras seem to
improve on almost a daily basis, why spend thousands extra on a
camera body, when the digital part of it will be out of date in
under 2 years time. I plan to keep my Pro S1 for a couple of years,
and see what Fuji, Canon, or Nikon come out with next. Body quality
is only important if you are a heavy handed tosser. Also, I
wouldn't really like to drop any digital camera, no matter how well
made the body is.

Click to expand...

Going by the wait for the D1X, you will be in an old age home
by the time you see a D2 on the shelves.

Jus

Rashid Karimov said:

"Nikon's latest digital SLR,the D1x, is said to use
wood-burning steam engine."

I'll wait for D2

Igor Shpak said:

I live in NYC and waiting like everybody else to get my hands on
D1x. A dealer in a small store yesterday (after trying to push me
into by Olympus E10) told me that D1x is a bad camera because it is
based on Nikon's APS Pronea body. I said that it is crazy, that if
anything D1 series camera's
look like F100 with a grib, and he said that I was wrong.

Is it true? Are D1 series cameras based on Pronea body, and if it
is so, is it bad???

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

It does have a cable release, one of the few extras they did think to put in. My major gripe is that the shutter speed isn't higher, or ISO lower, flash sync of 1/125th is crap, and there is no flash sync. connector, which means use of a hot shoe adapter. Pop up flash is abysmal, I use a Metz Cz32 on its hotshoe and bounce the flash wherever possible. This gives very good results. Why didn't Fuji just buy up all the old F90's cheap and use them, after all Nikon has superceded the F90 with the F100? Would have been some camera then.

I can't remember if Fuji implemented a cable release

Joe Hoddinott said:

system on the S1, but I know that the N60 lacks one....who can
survive without a cable release?

Click to expand...