Who also agrees that primes are a waist of money?

I've had a lot of expensive zooms and I've never had one that
wasn't optically the inferior of a contemporary prime.
Back when I was shooting Canon (before all of my Canon gear got destroyed) I used to own a 17-40/4.0L and a 35mm/2.0. The 17-40 was every bit the equal of the 35mm/2.0 at F4 but it also sucked from F2.0-4.0 and it was (relatively) big and heavy. So I usually just stuffed my Digital Rebel in my knapsack and left the 17-40 on the shelf. Unfortunately, when I went hiking the day I stepped into a 5 foot deep mud pit and lost my camera bag, I packed the 17-40 :(
 
It's as sharp as the 2.8 version. It complements my 12-24/18-70/70-180nikkor micro.
 
I appreciate all the passion in this conversation, but wouldn't you rather be out shooting than arguing?

If you want to persist in the fruitless arguing, how about this topic:

Zoom fans mostly live in red states and prime fans mostly live in blue states.

Argue amongst yourselves.
 
I appreciate all the passion in this conversation, but wouldn't you
rather be out shooting than arguing?

If you want to persist in the fruitless arguing, how about this topic:

Zoom fans mostly live in red states and prime fans mostly live in
blue states.

Argue amongst yourselves.
Wouldn't you rather be out shooting than scolding people for arguing :)
 
There was a lot of discussion here about foot zooming. You can put a 50mm lens on your camera, walk backwards until you fall off the Earth, and it will never provide the same persepctive as a 17mm lens. If you shoot primes you need a lot of lenses and need to do a lot of lens changing.

I have a little thing for primes, especially for low light (50 1.4). I also have zooms and use them more. Sometimes I am lazy and zoom, but often I zoom to find the perspective I want, and then move my feet to make the composition work with the FL I selected. I did this today shooting a lighthouse, where I picked my FL and walked around until I found something that worked. If I had had the time I would have found something that worked better.

So I am squarely on both sides of the argument. Different tools for different situations.

My 70-200 VR saved my bacon today and allowed me to spend hours shooting individual birds and also allowed me to zoom out and catch some very special moments, which happened only 3 times in a long day of shooting and happened literally in the blink of an eye.

Regards,
Neil
I'm saying that because a while back I bought a 17-55 and sold some
very good primes. Needless to say, I feel that it was the best
move that I made where lens purchases are concerned. To get what
the 17-55 offers for example you would need a 16mm, 20mm, 24mm,
28mm, 35mm, 45mm, 50mm and 55mm prime and you would be switching
lenses all the time. In my opinion the primes were no better than
the zoom, constant 2.8 on the zoom is great, and if I need that
much more light I just use a flash anyway or increase the ISO.

I am convinced that these days because of how well zooms are made,
primes are no more than just another way spend more money and
increase the weight of your camera bag and increase the chances of
getting your sensor dirty because you are changing lenses all the
time.

I will not be buying anymore primes the way I see it now unless for
whatever reason I need macro which you can get in a zoom anyway.
For general photography zooms are for me hands down. I will
probably never buy another prime.

Thoughts please
--
Regards,
Neil
 
I never said every prime is better. Among the zooms I've had are Nikon's 80-200 4.5, two models of 80-200 2.8, the 35-70 2.8, 17-35; Canon's 20-35 L, 80-200 L, 16-35 L, 24-70 L, 70-200 L; a zeiss-contax 80-200 and a few others. (I just mention these because they are all reputed to be "as good as primes") I have always owned at least one prime in the same range at the same time that was observably better is some respect that I care about than each of these lenses. On the other hand, I had each of these zooms because they were handy and useful.
Back when I was shooting Canon (before all of my Canon gear got
destroyed) I used to own a 17-40/4.0L and a 35mm/2.0. The 17-40 was
every bit the equal of the 35mm/2.0 at F4 but it also sucked from
F2.0-4.0 and it was (relatively) big and heavy. So I usually just
stuffed my Digital Rebel in my knapsack and left the 17-40 on the
shelf. Unfortunately, when I went hiking the day I stepped into a 5
foot deep mud pit and lost my camera bag, I packed the 17-40 :(
 
I appreciate all the passion in this conversation, but wouldn't you
rather be out shooting than arguing?

If you want to persist in the fruitless arguing, how about this topic:

Zoom fans mostly live in red states and prime fans mostly live in
blue states.

Argue amongst yourselves.
 
What is your point? That bad images can be made with any lens in the right hands?
Thank you for the kind words. You are such a nice guy. If it
were not for you I wouldn't have known my first name changed.
Anyway while you are resorting to name calling and suggestions that
someone spend about $2000 on two lenses that they will hardly ever
use; the 28 and 85 that you have so frequently referred to, I will
be shooting with my wonderful 17-55 and 24-85 and get pictures just
as good. Guess what lens these pictures were taken with. I
wouldn't trade my 17-55 for all the lenses that you referred to for
any other reason but to sell them and buy more zooms. Did you read
guzmann's message. Oh I forgot that you are too narrow minded like
the narrow focal length that you get from your lousy primes that I
sold. Your name calling is childish but that is what one would
expect from a child or someone with a child’s mentality which you
are obviously one of.
 
Hi Lawnmover,

I absolutely love my 17-55mm but I never wouldn't miss my 14mm, my 45P, my 50 f1.4 en my Micro 60mm. The results of the 17-55mm are stunning but for close work I never could get the detail and sharpness that the Micro Nikkor 60mm gives me. I have several other zooms but also primes in those ranges. Each lens has his specific characteristics.

With very kind regards,

Dirk

'Equipment is not the issue. It's all about vision.'

http://www.pbase.com/dievee
 
Like the guy said " A comfortable lens scores better then a performing lens".. Why not make lenses with silk barrels and smooth feathered hoods? Those would top 99/100...
Sigma12/24: 85/100
Nikkor12/24: 84/100
Nikkor17/35: 80/100
This is one of the BEST zooms that ever hit the market. Period. Rates 80?
This sigma is noticeably soft and has been widely reported so. Rates 86? Probably only because of its cheap priced.
Tamron17/35: 81/100
Nikkor17/55: 85/100
One of the best Nikon Zoom. Should score 10 points above the 12-24 which should score 75/100
Yeah right...
Sigma24/60: 84/100
Nikkor24/85: 86/100
Yeah right! If all things are kept equal, this one should be 65/100 optically.

My 28 and 85 Primes are extremely sharper then this lens on the same focal lenghts.
Altough excellent all around lens, it is said to be soft. It should NEVER EVER be rated above the legendary 17-35! Sheesh!
Tamron28/75 88/100
Nikkro28/105: 81/100

The primes:
Tamron14: 78/100
Nikkor20: 68/100
Sigma20: 69/100
Nikkor50 1.8: 72/100
I used this lens for lots of poster enlargment work for big and serious companies that exclusively rely on quality prints... In the studio at F8 and F11 it is the one to use) along with the 85 1.4.
A score of 72/100 is just pure propaganda against it.
These primes probably all score low because 1) They are primes (0/20 on flexibility) and 2) their price... These 2 points make them start at 80/100 right there... But anyways, this test is all Bull.

This test doesn't tell anything about sharpness. Silly.

This test should've used one bench-test lens (which should've started at 100/100) and it should've been the 17-35mm. Of course, the 17-55 would be very close to that one (+ - 1 point).

Nonetheless, primes cannot be compared in such a test
 
You guys are killing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where do you guys think this
stuff up. Boy, I am sure glad that I kept one prime. The 35f2.
If I use it will I live 35 years longer maybe times 2? Ha, ha, ha.
LOL. You guys ought to right a book on fitness and photography.
Specifically shooting with DSLR's and prime lenses. It will lower
the mortality rate. Ha, ha, ha, ha. I guess I have to sell my
zooms now. I am so confused. I want to keep them but I don't want
to die early. Ha, ha, ha, LOL. The bigger the prime the longer
you'll live. This is insane.
After such an answer, how can you object when someone thinks you're stupid?
I don't buy into the argument that primes look better though - the
zooms are generally longer and fatter, and everyone knows that for
appendages, longer and fatter is more desirable. (unless it's your
neck)

By the way, has anyone noticed that he spelt WASTE wrong?

bb.oz
I'm saying that because a while back I bought a 17-55 and sold some
very good primes. Needless to say, I feel that it was the best
move that I made where lens purchases are concerned. To get what
the 17-55 offers for example you would need a 16mm, 20mm, 24mm,
28mm, 35mm, 45mm, 50mm and 55mm prime and you would be switching
lenses all the time. In my opinion the primes were no better than
the zoom, constant 2.8 on the zoom is great, and if I need that
much more light I just use a flash anyway or increase the ISO.

I am convinced that these days because of how well zooms are made,
primes are no more than just another way spend more money and
increase the weight of your camera bag and increase the chances of
getting your sensor dirty because you are changing lenses all the
time.

I will not be buying anymore primes the way I see it now unless for
whatever reason I need macro which you can get in a zoom anyway.
For general photography zooms are for me hands down. I will
probably never buy another prime.

Thoughts please
--
mrmacro

Dear lawnmower

I get your point and have read a few threads that also make a few
point. I think there are a few other ways to look at this issue. I
have to agree with my fellow Australian, Geoff that it pretty hard
to beat a prime macro in so many respects. They are often great
portrait lenses as well as being brilliant macro lenses. A few
additional points.

Prime lenses make you do more exercise as you have to move around
to get the picture you want. They help you 'find the angle.' People
with prime lenses are 'often' much fitter than people with high
powered zooms. (note I said often, as my anecdotal research is not
yet complete)

Prime lenses are also very cheap second hand these days because of
the preference of zooms. Because there are 'sometimes' fewer moving
parts in prime lenses, as they don't have to zoom, there is a good
chance that they are in better nick than second hand zoom lenses.
Again further research needs to be done here..but that's how we
learn. So, in terms of investment they are a good buy.

Prime lenses look better than zooms...I can't fully explain
this...but I am sure it is something to do with light
refraction...more research to be done. They do tend to be a little
thinner in circumference on the barrels. Again a personal
observation based on a sample of nearly 7.

In the last week I purchased one of those D70's that seem to be
popular on this forum. Although I feel I have an obligation to love
the nice little zoom that came with it (18-70) having read many
postings on this site, and at risk of getting big dark patches on
my ccd, also having read many articles on this, I took it off and
put on my very ancient 105mm manual lens. Sorry folks but it leaves
the kit lens for dead when it comes to sharpness. It also has a
beautiful shape.

With facts like these...and research currently being done on some
of those issues..what more can I say. Go PRIME, Go PRIME...

mrmacro
--

Keep it cool guys... remember, this is the internet. It's nothing personal. If you take it personal, you should quit the net.
 
I agree that some primes are not good wide open. This is one of the parameters you have to look at when selecting what to buy.

Perfect example is Nikon 50mm f1.8. At f1.8 it is very soft. But, by f4 it gets better than any zoom (I'm comparing it with 17-35 mm f2.8, 28-70 f2.8 and 70-200 VR).

If you use flash, and matrix metering all auto, your camera will most likely choose f4 or there abouts and appropriate shutter speed. So you really need to compare your zooms vs primes at these apertures.

For example 28-70 AF-S sucks at f4, it's great at f5.6 to f11 or so. So, on my F100 with SB800DX, 28-70 set at 50 mm will usually shoot at f4 and about 1/60 to 1/100 inside with some available light. And the pictures I get, won't be nearly as good as with 50mm f1.8 prime at exact same settings.

Some primes, like 85 mm f1.4 are designed to be sharp from wide open f1.4 to about f4 and degrade higher than f4. These are true "low light" lenses.

Most zooms are optimized for great light outdoors, i.e. they are best at f8.
 
A few thoughts that I don't think have been expressed (hard to believe, given the number of posts).

1. There is more to lens quality than sharpness (ok, someone mentioned flare as well). I used to shoot a Leica R3 and all primes (couldn't afford their zooms). Switched to Nikon (N90) primarily so I could have the convenience of zooms, but was never happy with the results. Note that, when tested, Nikons consistently beat the Leicas! But there was an unmeasured quality to the Leicas that fit my style (this is something personal to my style, and I don't imply that it applies to anyone else). Then one day I went out with my D1X and only my 50 1.8. The results were what I remember from my Leica days. I subsequently switched to primes for wide to normal (foot zooming doesn't work was well for tele, and I love my 70-200 VR). The "feel" of the images is different and it fits my style. I've found the 20 2.8 and the 35 2.0 to have a similar "feel". I would suggest that lens selection should be based on more than sharpness (and/or convenience, although for some applications, convenience should be paramount, just not for most of what I do).

2. Shooting style also tends to be different, at least for me (and many people that I know). My day with the 50 1.8 only was instructive. It's old advice, but worth repeating, that spending a day with a single focal length is surprisingly instructive when it comes to photographic composition. Of course you can do this with a zoom if it's your preferred lens and you have the will power (something I'm short on).

3. Since zooms are heavier, I think the additional walking with primes equals the additional carrying with zooms, so exercise is a draw (couldn't resist joining in the silliness).

So do some soul searching and decide what works best for YOUR style and needs, don't let other self proclaimed experts decide for you (although threads like this can be very instructional).
--
Rick L
http://www.pbase.com/ricklawrence/ricksfavorites
 
Somebody had to say it.....

Cheers,
Craig Ryder
I'm saying that because a while back I bought a 17-55 and sold some
very good primes. Needless to say, I feel that it was the best
move that I made where lens purchases are concerned. To get what
the 17-55 offers for example you would need a 16mm, 20mm, 24mm,
28mm, 35mm, 45mm, 50mm and 55mm prime and you would be switching
lenses all the time. In my opinion the primes were no better than
the zoom, constant 2.8 on the zoom is great, and if I need that
much more light I just use a flash anyway or increase the ISO.

I am convinced that these days because of how well zooms are made,
primes are no more than just another way spend more money and
increase the weight of your camera bag and increase the chances of
getting your sensor dirty because you are changing lenses all the
time.

I will not be buying anymore primes the way I see it now unless for
whatever reason I need macro which you can get in a zoom anyway.
For general photography zooms are for me hands down. I will
probably never buy another prime.

Thoughts please
 

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