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Oran Green

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would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on post processing.

I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all 20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get them sharp.

I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures better if I just knew what.

Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best? I would be very greatful.

I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.

My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
 
I love my 20D and i believe in the features and capability it holds. However I'd like to see how "just ok" pictures are made into these gorgeous photos we see on here.

Thanks,
EOSPhotoguy
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
 
Shoot RAW, use a good RAW plugin. The indoor AWB of the 20D is definitely in need of adjustment. The camera RAW plugin (or DPP) makes this easy.
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
 
This is a great pludin for PS.

http://fphoto.org/10D-sharpening/

It's free, and gives you 3 actions you can run. The 1st two a SubtleCol and BoldCol. They increase the color saturation in your images. I find many of my images come out much nicer by running SubtleCol on them.

And then run the 3rd action, 10D Finisher. It performs a number of USM steps on your image, and gives very pleasent results.

I've used these actions on both a dRebel, and a 20D, so its not just for 10Ds. Perhaps he should change the name to DiG!C Finisher :)
 
After a few years of looking at Canon DSLR pictures, many of the consumer grade cameras have a hard, almost oversharpened look to me. I know Canon takes a conservative approach, but for most small-sized prints, the maximum setting for in-camera sharpening seems fine to me. Matter of taste, I guess.
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
--
Joe Hawblitzel
 
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
Click to expand...
The default parmeter set (Parameter 2, in the Creative Zone -- P, Av, Tv, M) is intended to allow/require post-processing. But (pp. 57-58) you can set the in-camera processing with a high degree flexibility. Parameter 1 gives more processing and you can up that with the Custom sets.

I seldom post process but for cropping and the like.

Phil
 
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
Click to expand...
I find that I enjoy bringing the image to life in DPP and photoshop so much that I, personally, would be upset if Canon did more image processing in the camera.

However, What I think you want is available by setting the sharpness brighness and contrast controls in the Menus so that you overprocess the image in the camera.
Oran Green said:
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Click to expand...
Start shooting RAW--then the camera settings are moot

Spend some time with each picture in DPP to get the WB, and color parameters optimized
Spend more time in Photoshop, use levels, various overlay structures

I just the last week, I have stumbled upon ways to use photoshop to take a totally blah image and make it a dynamite image. It went something like this:

Read Image into Photoshop
Copy image
Create new image from clipboard
Duplicate layer
Set layer to multiply

--Presto the sky and the dam had great color, but the surrounding folliage was completely dark.
Create new layer from clipboard
Threshold--set level to capture foliage
Use paint brush to remove residual Dam pixels from foliage overlay
Use Gaussian Blur on threshold
Paste Threshold layer into original
Set to overlay
Invert layer
Flatten image
Copy
Paste onto image of dam
Set to screen
Adjust brightness to taste
Flatten image
Sharpen
Write out as JPG.

The only way to learn is to read/and experiment.
--
Mitch
 
I have 717, 828 and D100 and 20d.

As you say the Sony sharpness is amazing.

One little trick is to set USM to 25 - 35 % and pixel radius to between 15 and 20 and apply this as a first step in post. Be a little careful though that the settings don't produce halo's. If they do, scale back a bit.

Remember also that in PS the 20d image is a lot bigger (app. 49 x 32") than the 717 (app. 26 x 35"). This means that you can, generally, get away with a lot more sharpening in PS so that when you rescale for, say, an 11 x 14" print, you are effectively cramming more pixels into the same area than the 717.
Anyway, try the USM trick first and see how it works.

--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.
http://www.pixplanet.biz
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
 
does this work with PS Elements ?

--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.
http://www.pixplanet.biz
Spaz said:
This is a great pludin for PS.

http://fphoto.org/10D-sharpening/

It's free, and gives you 3 actions you can run. The 1st two a
SubtleCol and BoldCol. They increase the color saturation in your
images. I find many of my images come out much nicer by running
SubtleCol on them.

And then run the 3rd action, 10D Finisher. It performs a number of
USM steps on your image, and gives very pleasent results.

I've used these actions on both a dRebel, and a 20D, so its not
just for 10Ds. Perhaps he should change the name to DiG!C Finisher
:)
Click to expand...
 
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
 
Believe it or not, there are soft lenses out there. Read enough lens reviews, and you'll find out that a majority of $120 to $400 zoom lenses have softness... usually wide open. Stopping down to F5.6, f8, or sometimes even f11 is the only way to get maximum sharpness out of a lens.

So, what lens(es) are you using? And at what f-stops? That might help more than .... extra sharpening in-camera.

My poiint is... let's say you get your wish, and Canon writes "extra sharpening" into the software. If you use a 50mm f1.4 wide open, you'll be happy. If you use a 50mm f1.4 at f4, you'll be angry. Because the 50mm f1.4 stopped down to f2.8, f4, f5.6 is possibly the sharpest lens Canon produces. It's a bit soft at f1.4. Many people also think that the incredibly short DOF at f1.4 also lends to the appearance of softness. Frankly, at 5 feet subject distance, it's hard to tell what's in focus, as DOF is about 1/2 an inch with that lens.

If you've got the kit lens, in good light (outdoors) do take some shots on a tripod wide open, f5.6, f8, and f11. Compare them without any in-camera processing. Then try another lens, same thing. If you know someone with a 50mm f1.4, try it at f4, and you'll know what a really sharp lens is like.

Good luck.
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
--

' We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. '
  • George Orwell
 
http://www.hiddenelements.com/freetools.html#hpactions

Another free donwload, this time from the the author of "The Hidden Power Of Photoshop Elements" . It looks like it allows you to run (some?) actions.

Again, I dont use elements, so cant tell you if this will work or not.

--

(This may have been a post in humour, and not meant to offend anyone. Or it was a post trying to help. Do not attempt any of my suggestions at home. No animals were harmed in the production of this reply. All humour perfomed by a non professional on a closed track. If you reply within the next 30 minutes, we will thrown in a Moronic Breeze (TM) for your car, thats a $69.95 saving! Thankyou for your patience, we will resume regular programming shortly)
 
Many thanks again, have downloaded and will try it.
--
Rgds, Dave.
Have fun - take lotsa pix.
http://www.pixplanet.biz
Spaz said:
http://www.hiddenelements.com/freetools.html#hpactions

Another free donwload, this time from the the author of "The
Hidden Power Of Photoshop Elements" . It looks like it allows you
to run (some?) actions.

Again, I dont use elements, so cant tell you if this will work or not.

--
(This may have been a post in humour, and not meant to offend
anyone. Or it was a post trying to help. Do not attempt any of my
suggestions at home. No animals were harmed in the production of
this reply. All humour perfomed by a non professional on a closed
track. If you reply within the next 30 minutes, we will thrown in a
Moronic Breeze (TM) for your car, thats a $69.95 saving! Thankyou
for your patience, we will resume regular programming shortly)
Click to expand...
 
or how well its focus was adjusted during manufacture. Here's a straight from the camera (parameter 2 defaults) 100% crop JPEG @ F1.4;



Trust me, all 20Ds aren't as good as that. Some better perhaps, but most worse. The prevailing belief that 99% meet spec is just nonsense, more like 70%.
hockeynut said:
So, what lens(es) are you using? And at what f-stops? That might
help more than .... extra sharpening in-camera.

My poiint is... let's say you get your wish, and Canon writes
"extra sharpening" into the software. If you use a 50mm f1.4 wide
open, you'll be happy. If you use a 50mm f1.4 at f4, you'll be
angry. Because the 50mm f1.4 stopped down to f2.8, f4, f5.6 is
possibly the sharpest lens Canon produces. It's a bit soft at
f1.4. Many people also think that the incredibly short DOF at f1.4
also lends to the appearance of softness. Frankly, at 5 feet
subject distance, it's hard to tell what's in focus, as DOF is
about 1/2 an inch with that lens.

If you've got the kit lens, in good light (outdoors) do take some
shots on a tripod wide open, f5.6, f8, and f11. Compare them
without any in-camera processing. Then try another lens, same
thing. If you know someone with a 50mm f1.4, try it at f4, and
you'll know what a really sharp lens is like.

Good luck.
Oran Green said:
would give the 20D owners the option of selecting really super
good in camera shaprening so we do not have to depend so much on
post processing.
I am having a hard time getting used to the soft pictures that I
get with my 20D as compared to my Sony F717. I understand that all
20D's are that way and that you have to use post processing to get
them sharp.
I use photoshop 7 and it does a good job but I always have that
deep down feeling that I could do something to make the pictures
better if I just knew what.
Could some of you that have such great pictures please post the
exact processes you use to get them sharpened and looking the best?
I would be very greatful.
I use all genuine Canon lenses although none of them are the L
grade. I am not saying my pictures are not good but it just seems
that I and everyone should not have to depend so much on their post
processing knowledge to get the best pictures.
I like my 20D very much and carry my Sony F717 only as a backup.
My second biggest frustration with the 20D is the poor auto white
balance performance indoors. I use the custom white balance option
with an 18% gray card and get outstanding white balance in any
light condition. It would just be so nice if I did not have to
mess with setting the WB all the time.
Thanks for your help,
Oran Green
Click to expand...
--
' We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. '
  • George Orwell
Click to expand...
 
I have been reading abaut this many kinds of information. That sharpness in camera is a compromise between noise and sharpness. Less noise = less sharpness. 20D must be one of the best cameras on the market in questioin of noise. So that can be in the cost of sharpness.

We have sharpness feature in camera, we can change sharpness 2 steps into minus or plus direction. Doesn't this mean, camera has ability to produce more sharpness than we get with normal adjustment.

I have also red that Canon doesn't give the best sharpness directly from camera, because professional people will determine sharpness themselves.

My opinion is, I don't prefer the extreme sharpnes directly from camera, type Olympus - Sony, that doesn't look natural, I want to choose sharpness myself. Jouni
 
Here is a shot more or less right out of the camera. It was shot in JPEG, using Parameter 1 which I find gives better results out of the camera. Shooting P1 and doing more PP would probably give a better result, but I try to avoid PP if I can.

This shot was run through a PS action which applied auto curves to brighten it up and then reduced for the web. It was taken at ISO 1600 using a Sigma 70-200 2.8.

I wouldn't call it a WOW shot, but I think it demonstrates that the 20D can take shots right out of the camera that can require little PP. I suggest playing with the camera sets and find one that best suits your needs.



--
Pat

http://www.iceshots.smugmug.com
 
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