Computer power & monitor

Henry Stamm

Senior Member
Messages
3,590
Reaction score
1,071
Location
Montana, US
I did a brief search on this forum (not on others) & didn't find this question discussed: What size engine (computer) are folks using to process their E-1 pics at SHQ, TIF, RAW settings? I ask because my 1.5ghz Windows machine with 512 mb of ram is basically at its limit with 10mb or 15mb files. It will open & process changes OK, but slowly. It's well over 3 1/2 years old & I will need to replace it in the next year. I won't be switching to a Mac because of investment in Windows software, but I am curious as to the "horsepower" that folks are using, regardless of the OS platform.

I also use a very nice ViewSonic 17" CRT monitor, but it's also 3 1/2 years old now & possibly reaching its "endtime" of usability (we had another exactly like it that went belly-up about 6 months ago). I am envious of LCD monitors, but I have yet to see one that yields the kind of clarity for graphics and text that I want in my screens, unless I really go very high-end (> US $1500). So, what kinds of equipment are people employing in their processing work?
 
... a homebrew Athlon 2500XP machine with 1GB RAM, 2-off 10K RPM UltraSCSI disks and a Dell 2001FP 20" TFT display. I wanted to be able to display a whole A3 full screen.

As a matter of interest I also have a 19" Gateway VX900 (which is I think a Hitachi really) and a 20" Eizo T67S which is a Trtnitron tubed monitor.

Frankly, the 2001FP blows both of them into the weeds. It may be true of many TFT displays that monitors are superior but I really sure I don't see it comparing mine.

Jim
I did a brief search on this forum (not on others) & didn't find
this question discussed: What size engine (computer) are folks
using to process their E-1 pics at SHQ, TIF, RAW settings?
--- snip! ---
 
Thanks for info! You certainly have the rig to handle the chores!
Cheers,
HS
 
What size engine (computer) are folks
using to process their E-1 pics at SHQ, TIF, RAW settings?
Not E-1 but C-5060 5 megapixels, some RAW at times, a few LARGE stitched panoramas at times, many 4,000 dpi film scans giving 60 megabyte files to play with, Qimage which generates BIG temporary print files at times... last print involved a 350 megabyte temp file.

I use home brew AMD 2600+XP CPU running WinXP with 1 gig memory and 80 gig hard drives with 8 meg buffers in drives. Works OK for me but at times really need something even faster, especially hard drive access, so next build will have twin SATA hard drives with RAID striped mode to share system between two hard drives. Evidently that RAID method makes a dramatic speed difference to disk access, which is usually the biggest bottleneck.

Meanwhile a lot of processing still takes place on the laptop I'm using right now, an old Toshiba Portege 7020CT with 30 gig drive 192 meg memory and running WinXP. Bought that for the field to be my image review and storage device when travelling overseas or in Australia (split it off the base for travelling). But funny enough, its Pentium II 366 MHz slow speed doesn't worry me much at all, it works OK for me, just a bit slow at times. It became the internet access PC because of the freedom from power glitches that bomb the other one out now and then (usually in the middle of huge downloads). Hung a wireless keyboard and mouse plus a Philips 21" 201P CRT monitor off the laptop and it's nice to use. The laptop itself lives on a shelf above the desk.

Regards............ Guy
 
Hello Henry,

It sounds to me like your computer may only need a software overhaul/cleanup. 1.5ghz and 512 should be fine to run Windows 2000 or XP and Photoshop.

Now, you may mean that when you open RAW files in viewer it is slow but I think everyone complains about that. I am running an Athlon XP 2100 (1.54ghz) with a gig of ram and I routinely process 45-60 meg files in Photoshop Elements 2 when resizing for printing. Sharpening, Resizing, Levels, etc. are all pretty quick and by no means would I call it slow. With Oly Viewer, however, it easily takes 3-5 seconds for each change I make to RAW images in the Raw image processor. Other than the RAW conversions everything else about it runs okay.

You did say that your computer is 3.5 years old. You may want to look in to backing up all important data and reformatting (with a surface scan to clean up any bad sectors on the hard drive) your hard drive. Then install your OS from scratch. In 3.5 years you would be surprised how much spyware, junk files, adware, and background processes can be running on your PC. I routinely do this kind of clean-up every year at least.
I did a brief search on this forum (not on others) & didn't find
this question discussed: What size engine (computer) are folks
using to process their E-1 pics at SHQ, TIF, RAW settings? I ask
because my 1.5ghz Windows machine with 512 mb of ram is basically
at its limit with 10mb or 15mb files. It will open & process
changes OK, but slowly. It's well over 3 1/2 years old & I will
need to replace it in the next year. I won't be switching to a Mac
because of investment in Windows software, but I am curious as to
the "horsepower" that folks are using, regardless of the OS
platform.

I also use a very nice ViewSonic 17" CRT monitor, but it's also 3
1/2 years old now & possibly reaching its "endtime" of usability
(we had another exactly like it that went belly-up about 6 months
ago). I am envious of LCD monitors, but I have yet to see one that
yields the kind of clarity for graphics and text that I want in
my screens, unless I really go very high-end (> US $1500). So,
what kinds of equipment are people employing in their processing
work?
--
Tarek
 
Hi Tarek,
It sounds to me like your computer may only need a software
overhaul/cleanup. 1.5ghz and 512 should be fine to run Windows
2000 or XP and Photoshop.
Thanks for the advice, but II have WinXP Pro, religiously run anti-spyware, go into the registry & delete unwanted or unneeded files, etc. I don't use Viewer. Years ago I started with Paint Shop Pro & Thumbs Plus & I have the latest versions of each. I never have fiddled with PhotoShop & don't intend to start.

Processing smaller-sized files is no problem, but once the pic files (and the Word docs with imbedded tables & images and larger PowerPoint files) start creeping above 3MB, then everything takes quite a bit more time. Opening a RAW file (10MB) or TIF (15MB) is no big deal in terms of post-processing one or two, but facing a task of messing with 30 or more images can be quite daunting. At roughly 5 minutes per image for relatively simple PP work adds up quickly when a 1-gig CF card is only half-full.

I have only recently begun to work with RAW, but the time involved is not conducive to me using this very much. I think, perhaps, that I tend to fall on the side of trying to get the camera settings, image framing, and other aspects of taking pictures correct from the get-go, so that only a very little PP is needed (perhaps a bit more sharpening or histogram adjustment). So maybe having a slower system has the advantage of forcing me to be a bit more careful with the image-making end of the process.
 
Hello Henry,

I'm not sure why you are having so much trouble with your setup. The computer that you describe should be able to handle E-! RAW files and their resulting TIFF files without too much trouble.

I have a fairly new Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop which has a 1.6 GHz Pentium-M processor and 1 GB of RAM. It also has an ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 Pro Turbo graphics card with 128 MB of dedicated RAM which drives an external Samsung SyncMaster 213T LCD display at a resoution of 1600 X 1200. This setup doesn't seem to have any trouble processing RAW files in PS CS. As everyone seems to experience, Viewer processes RAW files very slowly.

Perhaps all you need to do is add another 512 KB of RAM and upgrade your video card. A clean re-installation of WinXP might also help.
--
Thanks.

Cleave
 
Hi Cleave,
I have a fairly new Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop which has a 1.6 GHz
Pentium-M processor and 1 GB of RAM. It also has an ATI Mobility
Radeon 9600 Pro Turbo graphics card with 128 MB of dedicated RAM
which drives an external Samsung SyncMaster 213T LCD display at a
resoution of 1600 X 1200.
The difference is the RAM. Mine is maxed at 512MB--the motherboard is not compatible with any more. Your video card also might make a difference. My system is as good as it is going to get, & I regularly do the kind of maintenance necessary to keep it running at top speed. It has not slowed down at all since the day I first cranked it up. It handles files up to 7.5MB without any real lag, but the larger output of 5 MP cameras has definitely challenged its capabilities. It will do the work, but more slowly than I find acceptable.

When I started this thread, I was seeking confirmation that I have an outmoded system. Everyone who has contributed so far certainly has more horsepower under the hood that I do and reports what I expected--that 512 MB of RAM is really not enough to push around big files with ease.

Cheers,
HS
 
Hello Henry,

I'm not sure why you are having so much trouble with your setup.
The computer that you describe should be able to handle E-! RAW
files and their resulting TIFF files without too much trouble.

I have a fairly new Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop which has a 1.6 GHz
Pentium-M processor and 1 GB of RAM.
You are not comparing like with like.

A 1.6 Pentium M is roughly comparable to a standard 2.5 GHz Pentium 4.

From the age of the machine I would guess that Henry is running 1.6 GHz Pentium III which would be a lot slower.

Michael
 
Hi Michael,

I guess that you learn something new every day. Why is a 1.6 GHz Pentium-M roughly comparable to a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4? No wonder my machine seemed about as fast as the 3 GHz boxes at work.
--
Thanks.

Cleave
 
... and all you will do is double the risk of failure as if either drive fails your whole array is gone.

If really you want to improve performance, fit two high speed drives and either put the Windows paging file on the second drive or, if using Photoshop, leave the paging file and Photoshop on the first drive and make the second drive it's scratch disk. Ideally fit three, put the Windows paging file on the second and the Photoshop scratch file on the third.

Do not under any circumstances use IDE PATA or SATA striped drives, there is little or no performance benefit but increased risk.

Jim
What size engine (computer) are folks
using to process their E-1 pics at SHQ, TIF, RAW settings?
Not E-1 but C-5060 5 megapixels, some RAW at times, a few LARGE
stitched panoramas at times, many 4,000 dpi film scans giving 60
megabyte files to play with, Qimage which generates BIG temporary
print files at times... last print involved a 350 megabyte temp
file.

I use home brew AMD 2600+XP CPU running WinXP with 1 gig memory and
80 gig hard drives with 8 meg buffers in drives. Works OK for me
but at times really need something even faster, especially hard
drive access, so next build will have twin SATA hard drives with
RAID striped mode to share system between two hard drives.
Evidently that RAID method makes a dramatic speed difference to
disk access, which is usually the biggest bottleneck.
--- snip! ---
 
... but he is quite right. My '8600 running a 1.7GHz Pentium-M is significantly (not just noticeably) faster than the Sony Vaio it replaced with a mobile Pentium IV 2.4GHz.

It is largely due to the fact that the Pentium-M (as compared to the Mobile Pentium IV and regular Pentium IV's) has a highly optimised core largely due to getting power consumption down. The idea was to decrease clock rate (and thus power) while maintaining performance.

In fact, and I am sure Intel realise it, it is exactly the same technique AMD use who realised long ago that throughput is as much a function of core optimisation as clock speed was but decided that since Intel played the clock-speed wars so well they weren't going to be disadvantaged by it and started using the XP rating system.

Jim
Hi Michael,

I guess that you learn something new every day. Why is a 1.6 GHz
Pentium-M roughly comparable to a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4? No wonder my
machine seemed about as fast as the 3 GHz boxes at work.
--
Thanks.

Cleave
 
I have a Dell 8250 2.4 pent 4, 512 mb RDRAM, 120gb hard drive, ATI 9700 pro graphics card, and, like Jim Attfield, a Dell 2001 fp 21" LCD monitor. I shoot my E-1 in SHQ jpeg and use PS Elements II. Everything loads fast, no complaints at all. I also love my 2001 fp monitor. I run it at 1600x1200 and slide shows of my E-1 images look super.
 
I use two system for processing my photographs from RAW to TIFF and JPG.
Both were built by me with NAME brand parts.

Main Workstation:
Intel Pentium IV 3.0GHZ Prescott Core CPU
Asus P4P800SE Mainboard
2GB Corsair XMS PC3200 DDR
2 - 74GB WD Raptor Series SATA 10K RPM HDD's
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5700 Ultra
Dual boot Windows XP Pro for Games and Olympus Studio and Photoshop
Fedora Core 2 (RedHat Linux) for everyday use and GIMP, and Bibble
(hint: I also use this rig for gaming)

Notebook
Intel Pentium IV 3.0GHz Prescott Core CPU
Asus L5GX Notebook Shell
1GB Crucial PC3200 DDR
60GB Hitachi 7200RPM HDD
ATI Radeon 9700Pro
Dual boot Windows XP Pro for Games and Olympus Studio and Photoshop
Fedora Core 2 (RedHat Linux) for everyday use and GIMP, and Bibble
(hint: I also use this rig for gaming)

But, in all honesty your system should be ok for working with E1 raw files and jpg's. The only things to watch out for are slow (cheap) hard drives and high latency CAS3 ram modules. Add another 512MB and check your hard drives specifications to see if it is 7200RPM or 5400RPM. The other big thing to check is to make sure you have no spyware on your PC, in the 9 years I have spent in the PC/Server/Workstation service market I have seen many systems get bogged down with too much garbage. Most of it installed without the users knowledge. In the Windows world security is lax.

Hope this helps,

Stephen Todd
I did a brief search on this forum (not on others) & didn't find
this question discussed: What size engine (computer) are folks
using to process their E-1 pics at SHQ, TIF, RAW settings? I ask
because my 1.5ghz Windows machine with 512 mb of ram is basically
at its limit with 10mb or 15mb files. It will open & process
changes OK, but slowly. It's well over 3 1/2 years old & I will
need to replace it in the next year. I won't be switching to a Mac
because of investment in Windows software, but I am curious as to
the "horsepower" that folks are using, regardless of the OS
platform.

I also use a very nice ViewSonic 17" CRT monitor, but it's also 3
1/2 years old now & possibly reaching its "endtime" of usability
(we had another exactly like it that went belly-up about 6 months
ago). I am envious of LCD monitors, but I have yet to see one that
yields the kind of clarity for graphics and text that I want in
my screens, unless I really go very high-end (> US $1500). So,
what kinds of equipment are people employing in their processing
work?
 
You are partially correct here Jim. The Pentium -M has a 1MB L2 Cache built in to that core. The Willamette ( original P4 socket 423) only had 256K L2 Cache, the Northwood (second P4 socket 478) had 512MB L2 Cache, and the Prescott Core has 1MB L2 Cache and the Prescott core has had the same (except power) optimizations that the Pentium-M has. So the Pentium-M feels a lot faster than its clock speed signifies, and it does in fact outperform both Willamette and some Northwoods. The Prescott core P4's and the Extreme Edition ( 2MB L3 Cache) P4's both have the upperhand in performance. A 2Ghz Pentium-M outperforms my 2.4GHz Northwood (533FSB 512KB Cache) powered server, but my wife's PC is running a 2.4GHz Prescott (800FSB and 1MB Cache) outperforms the Pentium-M 2GHz. Make sense? Or did I just make things a little too muddy?

Basically, not all CPU are the same, even the ones that are rated at the same clock speed. When you look at new PC's be sure to question which Pentium IV you are getting.

I go to Intel seminars twice per year to maintain my Intel Product Dealer status so I get to see all the new roadmaps for the chipsets and CPU's. About a year ago (maybe more) when the Pentium -M was announced, we ( the audience) asked what was going to happen to the Pentium IV since the M appeared to be designed to whip it hands down. that's when they shifted from the mobile lecture to the dekstop lecture, and we learned about the Prescott core and some new desktop chipsets 865PE and 875PE and some then un-named chipset that became the i925.

Hope this helps guys,

Stephen Todd
It is largely due to the fact that the Pentium-M (as compared to
the Mobile Pentium IV and regular Pentium IV's) has a highly
optimised core largely due to getting power consumption down. The
idea was to decrease clock rate (and thus power) while maintaining
performance.

In fact, and I am sure Intel realise it, it is exactly the same
technique AMD use who realised long ago that throughput is as much
a function of core optimisation as clock speed was but decided that
since Intel played the clock-speed wars so well they weren't going
to be disadvantaged by it and started using the XP rating system.

Jim
Hi Michael,

I guess that you learn something new every day. Why is a 1.6 GHz
Pentium-M roughly comparable to a 2.5 GHz Pentium 4? No wonder my
machine seemed about as fast as the 3 GHz boxes at work.
--
Thanks.

Cleave
 
Hi Stephen,
But, in all honesty your system should be ok for working with E1
raw files and jpg's. The only things to watch out for are slow
(cheap) hard drives and high latency CAS3 ram modules. Add another
512MB and check your hard drives specifications to see if it is
7200RPM or 5400RPM. The other big thing to check is to make sure
you have no spyware on your PC,
As I mentioned earlier, my system is clean & works just as it did when it was brand new. It has not slowed down or bogged down because I do regular upkeep to delete unecessary & unwanted files. It is maxed at 512MB of RAM--motherboard cannot take more. The hard drive is original & runs at 5400 RPM. It's OK, but just barely, to handle RAW & TIF files. It is simply too little machine to handle these easily. A typical workflow goes something like this: Assume one ORF file on a fast 1gig CF. I transfer the file first to my harddrive with a card reader. Process will take about 10 sec. Next, open file with PSP9 (which itself takes about 30 seconds to load completely--this could be faster, except that having it stored in memory for quicker loading slows down the computer start-up immensely). It will take about 30 second to open the file with the PSP9 converter. If I decide to adjust sharpness, exposure, or WB, wait about 10 more seconds for the preview screen to reflect the changes. Accept & open the file. Another 20-30 seconds. Lets assume I want to add a bit more sharpness, add some edge-preserving smoothness, & then adjust histogram. Another 20-30 seconds to apply the changes. Then save with a new name. About 10 seconds.

As I replied to earlier posts, it is quite clear that having at least 1gig of RAM would go a long way to speed up the process. No can do, unfortunately. As I said before, I'll upgrade the system in the coming year.
 
As I replied to earlier posts, it is quite clear that having at
least 1gig of RAM would go a long way to speed up the process. No
can do, unfortunately. As I said before, I'll upgrade the system
in the coming year.
Henry,

When I build, modify, repair, upgrade etc PCs for friends and family I do run the Norton Performance Test that came with the 2003 version and presumably the other years versions.

It's interesting to see what happens to hard drive access speed when (mostly) playing with hard drive setup.

As installed by default with say, WinXP or Win98 or Win2000, the hard drive may have x megabytes per second write speed. Run the CD that comes with the motherboard to load the proper drivers for the various motherboard data busses and it usually goes to about 2x write speed. Compare that speed to using a newer hard drive with 7200 rpm and 8 meg buffer in the hard drive and the write speed may be about 4x compared to the default loaded system and the usual hard drives you find in most new PCs.

In my own case I have used Win98, Win2000 and now WinXP on a variety of system builds with a changing variety of memory sizes as I pop memory in and out to test. For me in all cases it seemed that 512 meg memory was necessary to run Paint Shop Pro 8 nicely for the usual sized files (60 megabyte film scans). If I did a big panorama stitch then things fell apart and it slowed down dramatically, it seemed that 1 gig RAM was desirable (now got that) - but I always found that hard drive was the main speed bottleneck. So the minimum for me now is always the 7200 rpm drive with the 8 meg buffer in it. Even the step from AMD 2500+ CPU to the AMD 2600+ CPU in the Athlon series made a noticeable difference in speed, because of an improvement in internals in the chips and not just the whisker of extra clock speed.

One problem is that WinXP is such a hopelessly bloated operating system that it seems to need a minimum of 256 meg just to run the system, then if you actually want to run an application you must add more, probably 512 meg is really enough for most folks. There's some nice conveniences in WinXP but I feel that Win2000 is probably the nicest system (and probably the fastest) that I've used.

A video board of the 128 meg type usually adds to the performance and you will definitely see a difference over using the default video outlet that comes on most motherboards now, and faster of course compared to the usual 4 year old 32 meg board that lurks in many PCs.

I did mention the dual striped drive earlier but was warned about reliability as above. I made the dual drive comment because of a respected PC writer on a Sydney newspaper was working to build the ultimate office workhorse. Having a fancy motherboard and dual access memory sockets and appropriate fast CPU made the usual small speed changes, but the massive change in speed came with him setting up the dual system hard drive arrangement. He was bowled over by the way applications "snapped" open instead of the usual delays while they assemble themselves in memory. His conclusion was that dual SATA striped drives was the way to go to get the best bang for buck in speed.

(Touch wood) I've never had a hard drive fail and I've used many. What I do find though when I'm working on other peoples' PCs is that the hottest thing in the case is always the hard drive, even if the rest of the computer feels cool and the PC is in a cool room. Heat kills electronics and spreads grease around in mechanical things. So I always add a case fan or two to help pump fresh air into the case, then add extra fans inside the case just aimed at the hot devices like the hard drive(s) and the video board. About once a year at the latest I will open up the PC and get compressed air and blow the dust off everything (do it outside of course). You'd be surprised at how efficient a vacuum cleaner those PCs are, they sure collect a lot of dust. In fact if you open a PC after a year and it is clean inside then it's a sure sign that not enough air is being circulated inside the case. From 40 years of working on large room filling computers and now 15 years of PCs I can tell you that the main way to ensure reliability is to make sure all the cooling fans work.

With PCs if you spend x dollars you get a certain performance, double the dollars and you get maybe 25% performance improvement, quadruple the dollars and that maybe adds another 10% again. Mainly because the really top end parts cost a way lot more, out of all proportion to the performance gain they may add. And of course if the whole package is set up badly, you may never get the performance anyway.

Regards.............. Guy
 
I use an old PowerMac G4 450Mhz dual with 1GB RAM and a brand new PowerMac G4 2.5Ghz dual with 2GB. To be honest, the old computer's good enough most of the time, but if I want to use Studio without tearing my hair out I use the G5. Even then it's slow! People talk a lot of hogwash about 'needing' a fast computer - what difference does it make to a hobbiest if his computer takes 5 sec to do something or 0.25sec? IME, it really doesn't matter at all, as long as it CAN do it.

--
Adrian

'I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have
been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and

then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great
ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.' - Sir Isaac Newton
 
a t o m i c wrote:

Oh, I forgot the monitors. The G5 has a Mitsubishi 930sb (19' CRT, 1280x960@100Hz) and an Apple Studio Display (23" TFT, 1920x1080) on it, the G4 has a Sony G400 (CRT 1280x960@100Hz) on it. TFT screen is the sharpest by far, but the CRTs have deeper colour, better contrast and response.
--
Adrian

'I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem
to have
been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself
in now and
then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary,
whilst the great
ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.' - Sir Isaac Newton
--
--
Adrian

'I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have
been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and

then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great
ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.' - Sir Isaac Newton
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top