Thinking about a Sony 828. Some questions.

I thought about that. Might still do it, but, to be honest, I am
looking for something that I can hand to my assistant or wife as a
good P&S.
The AF is suprisingly fast as you probably noticed, and the green bars it throws down over the focus point is a very handy feature to know what the camera locked on without squinting.
Of course you'd miss out on the swivel lens, laser assisted AF and
IR...
When I first heard about the swivel lens, I was thinking "Give me a
BREAK!" Then I tried it out. LOVE IT!
Yeah, I've been addicted to the swivel since my Coolpix 950 years back. Its a great way to do candid photos by the way if you hand it off to an assistant, since it can be used at the waist in stealth mode quite easily. I almost never use the EVF, i prefer using the LCD at the waist. I do mainly landscapes with it though.

One other thing, RAW will give you the best results, but unlike your SLR, it locks up the camera for 10 seconds to write the 16meg file. For general vacation shots I wouldn't bother, but for those scenes you know you'll want to do huge enlargments of, its there for you.

Cheers.
Frank / http://www.abstrakt.org
 
Just buy one and try it out, if you don't like it you can eBay it for probably what you paid for it, if you buy it at a good price. I like mine a lot, only cam I use any more.
1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?
--
JohnK
infrared landscapes with 828:
http://www.jkenny.smugmug.com
 
Recieved my 828 in January, as of yesterday I've taken more than 14,000 photos. Shoot drag racing photos. Lots of dirt, smoke, direct sunlight, & heat no problems. Glad it's not a DSLR, would worry about dirt getting inside.Print many, many 11X17's excellant quality. Many of my racing friends can't believe the detail. Do not have the 30x40 capability. But any size up to 11X17's are spectacular...Sample racing photos can be viewed at
http://dragway.com/SpecialShows2/index.html

Jim
Hello, all.

I am a Canon user, with 1DMk2, 1Ds, and lenses, etc.

BUT, The family and I are getting ready to go to Disneyworld and,
to be honest, I do NOT want to lug around all of my equipment and
chase two kids and take care of a 5-6 month pregnant wife, SO...

I went to the camera store and played with a few upper class P&S
cameras, and must say that I thought the F828 blew away the
offerings from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, especially in regards to shutter
lag and feel and I have a couple of questions.

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Thank you all for your time!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
The swivel is one of the best tangible features. Like others have said, it is great for the times that you don't want to either look like a tourist or seem out of place taking pictures.

On a differnet note, I would recommend getting either several large memory sticks or a decent capacity memory stick and a 2GB or larger Compact Flash / MicroDrive. Reason being is that the battery on the 828 has a fairly long life and if you are going to be on vacation and away from a computer to transfer them onto, then you will want to have plenty of room for pictures.

I took mine to NYC last month equipped with a 512MB Memory Stick and a 2GB MicroDrive and it worked like a charm. By the time I would run out of room or need to recharge the battery, we would be headed back to the hotel for a break or to eat which gave me time to transfer the pics and charge the battery. It all depends on how picture happy you are and how many you anticipate taking.

JP
 
Hi

Wow, 1DMk2/1Ds ... very high-end DSLR. It's great to hear that you choose F828 instead of other prosumer dcs like Nikon, Canon, etc. as your less bulky alternative solution. I've been using F828 since Jan this year. Having over 20 years experience of film SLR, when the first time I tried the 828, I loved it! I felt that I'm holding an all-in-one down-sized advance DSLR. The overall response is so good.

I've never try the print size of 30x40's. However, I've seen many samples of 13 X 18 which are excellent. An unbelievable Zeiss lens with F2.0/2.8 (such a large aperture size) and a perfect zoom range of 28-200 mm. It produces very sharp images throughout the zoom range. However, mid-range focal lengh (something between 70 to 135) shows the best result.

The body finishing is excellent (with the same kind of magnesium alloy as of those high-end DSLR). And it's anti-scatch at some level!

There are two issues that worth notice. PF and noise. It's more tend to produce PF than other 8MP prosumers. May be it's due to the innovative lens design. For instance, no other competitors produce such a zoom lens with F2.0. I use Shay Stephen PF remover for Photoshop CS to remove all PF situations. It works great. Noise is another issue. For such a small 2/3 CCD, noise is expected. Using ISO64 should be fine. Btw, noise can be removed/reduced in post-processing.

Hope it helps

pc168
Hello, all.

I am a Canon user, with 1DMk2, 1Ds, and lenses, etc.

BUT, The family and I are getting ready to go to Disneyworld and,
to be honest, I do NOT want to lug around all of my equipment and
chase two kids and take care of a 5-6 month pregnant wife, SO...

I went to the camera store and played with a few upper class P&S
cameras, and must say that I thought the F828 blew away the
offerings from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, especially in regards to shutter
lag and feel and I have a couple of questions.

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Thank you all for your time!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
Hello, all.

I am a Canon user, with 1DMk2, 1Ds, and lenses, etc.
Sweet!
BUT, The family and I are getting ready to go to Disneyworld and,
to be honest, I do NOT want to lug around all of my equipment and
chase two kids and take care of a 5-6 month pregnant wife, SO...
Wow! I couldn't keep up with just that, much less a camera. ;)
I went to the camera store and played with a few upper class P&S
cameras, and must say that I thought the F828 blew away the
offerings from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, especially in regards to shutter
lag and feel and I have a couple of questions.
I came to the same conclusion myself.
1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.
I wouldn't know. The largest I ever print is 8x10. I know I could go larger but I have no idea how large. 8x10's look better than what I can get out of my Canon or Nikon SLR's though.
2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.
Pretty well actually. I mostly shoot on the mid to wide end but the few I do at longer focal lengths always hold up even the way I ofter crop heavily. My additional thoughts:

1. I have no problems with the noise up to ISO200. ISO400 or 800 is useable for me but only with some really heavy NR and usually only if I know I'm going to convert it to B&W. Some are more tolerant than others. Some originals at higher ISO's from my camera here...
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/gallery/263691
You can go up to 1600ISO in NightShot mode. An example here...
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/gallery/220069

2. PF seems to have been a greater problem with earlier cameras. Considering the original uproar I would have expected to see it alot more than I do. The very few times I ever did see it, I could easily remove it (less than 10 seconds) in PS. I have yet to see it bad enough that it ruined an image.

3. I shoot in Real color mode with the contrast, saturation, and sharpening set to minus. I do this because of the advice of others, I hate dealing with RAW file sizes, and it seems to be the easiest way to get the most from it in post. You can use it as a P&S and get excellent image quality strait from the camera but I don't since it doesn't bother me to post process the images. Two examples (strait from my 828) here...
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/gallery/263691
Also some where I was playing around here...
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/gallery/249346

All of my other images on Smugmug are from my 828 except the one gallery I have labeled "Nikon F65 Pictures." They are all processed to varying degrees though so probably not what you are looking for.
3) Any thoughts about basic durability?
I'm probably not a good one to ask. I've banged mine against a wall and the mailbox a few times and gotten it a little wet but there are others that have done much worse and theirs are still in use. Honestly I'm right before 7,000 shots so I'm kind of low on that count compared to others also.
Thank you all for your time!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
--
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/
 
As you have mentioned PF in the 828 is more pronounced than in the competition, and although you can get rid of it in most cases or work around it.You shouldnt have to in a camera of this class.I bought the 828 but returned it after seeing just how bad the PF issue was with it.
PF refers to purple-fringe. I am surprised none of the PF patrol
has shown up to berate you for even thinking about an 828.

In all seriousness though, PF is a type of chromatic aberation. It
is a little more prevelant on the 828 than some of the competition,
and the biggest issue the camera's detractors complain about, even
though none of them own the camera. I did a study on it and found
that the reason the 828 shows more than the competition is because
of the fact that the Sony takes sharper pictures, and because it
tends to over-expose slightly when the camera is in full auto. It
pops up most often in broad daylight or flourescent, when the
subject is heavily backlit with no fill, or under intense
reflections on water or chrome. Basically any time that contrast
is very high and proper exposure is naturally difficult anyway.

What about it then? Should you not get the camera? No, don't let
it concern you that much. I researched it and found that PF does
appear in all cameras, and there are easy ways to minimize it, then
there are Shay's action, and other plugins to get rid of it in
post. First, any time PF is likely, use a small aperture. Wide
apertures, particularly at the maximum wide or tele focal lengths
agrivate the problem. Also, the focal length it's self can have an
effect, with 28mm being the worst, 200mm being second worse, and
most everything inbetween being better by a measure of degrees.
Second, some people find that it occurs less when the 828 is
shooting in the "real" color mode. Others say it does not make a
difference, you'll have to be the judge. Some have had success
with one of Hoya's UV filters also helping to reduce PF, not to
mention it protects the lens when out with the kids in crouds,
though I hope someone will chime in since I forgot the model. And
yes, the model is important because other filters have not seemed
to work as well. Finally, someone else went so far as to prove
that focal point effects it as well. The further in front of or
behind the brightest highlight the focus was set, the more likely
or worse the PF would be.

PF is present with this camera, and any other large zoom camera as
well. Are there ways to reduce it? Of course. Are there ways to
get rid of it? You bet you can in post, and in not more than a
couple minutes. Should it scare you away from what is a fast,
great handleing, brilliant camera for the purpose you outlined
above? Not a chance.

-Dylan
 
I posted one link twice. Two additional originals from my camera can be found in this gallery...
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/gallery/228655

My galleries aren't restricted so you can download the full sized originals of any of those.

I see that their is also discussion in this thread about the swivel. I'll just add that as I get older and my back and knees give way to the damage I've done to them over the years plus old age, I couldn't live without it. It's sort of fun anyway. Makes me realize why I love my old view cam so much. :)
--
http://darkangel.smugmug.com/
 
Thanks, John.

It's hard to get a bead on this issue by doing a search, in terms of frequency. I have seen this on extremely rare cases, but always very correctable, but I am religious about using my lens hoods. Is this something that you can catch while shooting, or does it just show up in post?

I am also wondering if a polarizer, or even a haze filter, would take care of the problem. Just thinking out loud, here.

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
Thanks, Dylan
PF refers to purple-fringe. I am surprised none of the PF patrol
has shown up to berate you for even thinking about an 828.
It looks like some have shown up, now...
In all seriousness though, PF is a type of chromatic aberation. It
is a little more prevelant on the 828 than some of the competition,
and the biggest issue the camera's detractors complain about, even
though none of them own the camera. I did a study on it and found
that the reason the 828 shows more than the competition is because
of the fact that the Sony takes sharper pictures, and because it
tends to over-expose slightly when the camera is in full auto. It
pops up most often in broad daylight or flourescent, when the
subject is heavily backlit with no fill, or under intense
reflections on water or chrome. Basically any time that contrast
is very high and proper exposure is naturally difficult anyway.
So, perhaps under exposing slightly during these situations could be a cure, or liberal use of fill flash.
What about it then? Should you not get the camera? No, don't let
it concern you that much. I researched it and found that PF does
appear in all cameras, and there are easy ways to minimize it, then
there are Shay's action, and other plugins to get rid of it in
post. First, any time PF is likely, use a small aperture. Wide
apertures, particularly at the maximum wide or tele focal lengths
agrivate the problem. Also, the focal length it's self can have an
effect, with 28mm being the worst, 200mm being second worse, and
most everything inbetween being better by a measure of degrees.
Second, some people find that it occurs less when the 828 is
shooting in the "real" color mode. Others say it does not make a
difference, you'll have to be the judge. Some have had success
with one of Hoya's UV filters also helping to reduce PF, not to
mention it protects the lens when out with the kids in crouds,
though I hope someone will chime in since I forgot the model. And
yes, the model is important because other filters have not seemed
to work as well. Finally, someone else went so far as to prove
that focal point effects it as well. The further in front of or
behind the brightest highlight the focus was set, the more likely
or worse the PF would be.
I had the same thoughts about the UV filter...
PF is present with this camera, and any other large zoom camera as
well. Are there ways to reduce it? Of course. Are there ways to
get rid of it? You bet you can in post, and in not more than a
couple minutes. Should it scare you away from what is a fast,
great handleing, brilliant camera for the purpose you outlined
above? Not a chance.
I am going to look for some examples of it, and play in PS. I find most of these issues can be readily fixed, especially if someone has come up with an action to fix it.

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
Howdy, Halpren-
As you have mentioned PF in the 828 is more pronounced than in the
competition, and although you can get rid of it in most cases or
work around it.You shouldnt have to in a camera of this class.I
bought the 828 but returned it after seeing just how bad the PF
issue was with it.
You might find it surprising, but every Dslr I have owned has some kind of issue to work around. That is not just the Canons I own now, but Nikons and Olympus as well. I have had issues with $8000 cameras. It happens, you work around it.

I agree in principle that spending $1000 or more should give you a flawlessly running piece of hardware. Hard experience has shown that just isn't the case. Concerns by companies to stay in the megapixel race have made other advances in consistency and dynamic range improbable, which is sad.

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
I can tell you that, if it is similiar to what I have to to do to get this size in a pleasing way out of my 1DMk2, that there are some things to keep in mind about going that large.

First is exposure. It has to be dead on. I have found that even less than a stop off in some situations will limit your print size.

Second is interpolation. Make sure that you use a step-type action. You may also have to run a small gaussian blur, followed by USM to pull it off, but not with all images.

Printing a lot at 30x40 certainly changes your perspective. I used to think that 16x20 was big, and that 11x14 would work as a wall portrait. I have 12 30x40s hanging in my studio, and plan on adding 10 more, hopefully this week. It tends to simultaneous increase size of reprints, as well as give people a serious tool for eliminating any kind of film vs digital debate.

Have fun!
I printed out one 30x40 and basically when hung on the wall,
usually from 3 or more feet (normal passing by distance) it looks
very good, almost as if it has as much detail as a picture can have.

--
http://www.airness23.com
--
Airness:

Just to make sure I follow........this is a 30 x 40 from an F828
image file? If so, this is awesome to me. Was this a RAW format,
TIFF or high quality JPEG. I have been itching to produce some 24"
x 36" prints, but 30" x 40" is sooooooooo radical to me. I have
been dying to go to Yosemite and shoot lots of pics--a picture
WORTHY of being in 24" x 36" print (or bigger).

Loren Roque
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
Hey Frank!
One other thing, RAW will give you the best results, but unlike
your SLR, it locks up the camera for 10 seconds to write the 16meg
file. For general vacation shots I wouldn't bother, but for those
scenes you know you'll want to do huge enlargments of, its there
for you.
OUCH! 10 seconds?!? I am spoiled. I need to look into that, though. That could be a concern.

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
JP -

I have a FlashTrax, and plan on using that. I also have noted the problem some have reported with a memory stick at 1GB or above, and am doing some further research.

Thanks for posting!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
John -
Just buy one and try it out, if you don't like it you can eBay it
for probably what you paid for it, if you buy it at a good price. I
like mine a lot, only cam I use any more.
Not a bad plan, but I rarely have the discipline to actually sell that sort of thing. Perhaps I should put my wife on it...;)

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
Thanks for posting, Jim!

Some of those cars are crazy!
Jim
Hello, all.

I am a Canon user, with 1DMk2, 1Ds, and lenses, etc.

BUT, The family and I are getting ready to go to Disneyworld and,
to be honest, I do NOT want to lug around all of my equipment and
chase two kids and take care of a 5-6 month pregnant wife, SO...

I went to the camera store and played with a few upper class P&S
cameras, and must say that I thought the F828 blew away the
offerings from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, especially in regards to shutter
lag and feel and I have a couple of questions.

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Thank you all for your time!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
Hey, pc!
I've never try the print size of 30x40's. However, I've seen many
samples of 13 X 18 which are excellent. An unbelievable Zeiss lens
with F2.0/2.8 (such a large aperture size) and a perfect zoom range
of 28-200 mm. It produces very sharp images throughout the zoom
range. However, mid-range focal lengh (something between 70 to
135) shows the best result.
Thank you for the details. It sounds like it performs like most zooms, just with different baseline numbers.
The body finishing is excellent (with the same kind of magnesium
alloy as of those high-end DSLR). And it's anti-scatch at some
level!
Lord knows that could come into play with me using it!
There are two issues that worth notice. PF and noise. It's more
tend to produce PF than other 8MP prosumers. May be it's due to
the innovative lens design. For instance, no other competitors
produce such a zoom lens with F2.0. I use Shay Stephen PF remover
for Photoshop CS to remove all PF situations. It works great.
Noise is another issue. For such a small 2/3 CCD, noise is
expected. Using ISO64 should be fine. Btw, noise can be
removed/reduced in post-processing.
THank you for the details. I am thinking that most of my shooting wouldn't need more than 200ISO. I have a very steady hand, and a monopod...

Thank you for the detailed response! Very helpful!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile
 
It definitely is fast and sharp. The AF runs rings around any non-dSLR digicam I've used. The build quality is phenomenal, the manual controls superb, it has a great video mode, and the live tiltable LCD/Body is great for kids shots. Personally I compose almost all my 828 shots with the LCD because it just makes positioning the camera for the best composition far easier than peering through an EFV (or optical VF for that matter).

That said, it does have its limitations. You will get purple fringing in some shots and Shay's color fringe removal software (I use the manual mode) does a superb job when it crops up. Noise is a lot higher than your dSLRs. And for really large prints I'd recommend you shoot in RAW (which is slow) because the jpegs are a little bit "grainy" when blown up to 11x14 or larger. If you use RAW, use the Adobe RAW convertor or another program, not the Sony RAW convertor (which stinks and produces "grainy" output).

I think it would make an excellent companion to the dSLRs you have in your stable.

--
my gallery: http://www.pbase.com/sdaconsulting/full_gallery
 

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