Thinking about a Sony 828. Some questions.

Hello, all.

I am a Canon user, with 1DMk2, 1Ds, and lenses, etc.

BUT, The family and I are getting ready to go to Disneyworld and, to be honest, I do NOT want to lug around all of my equipment and chase two kids and take care of a 5-6 month pregnant wife, SO...

I went to the camera store and played with a few upper class P&S cameras, and must say that I thought the F828 blew away the offerings from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, especially in regards to shutter lag and feel and I have a couple of questions.

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in front of Epcot, etc.

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at various focal lengths.

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Thank you all for your time!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

I can't speak to the large printout size but I printout 8.5x11 and they look great.

As for durability I think the camera is very well constructed.

Here is a link to my site:
http://jfwharton.smugmug.com/

The images there can be viewed full size and were taken at the 8meg setting.

Just a question. I assume you are aware of the dreaded PF issue with the 828?

Sincerely,
John

jblann said:

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828?

Click to expand...

Oooh. 30x40 may be stretching it a bit. Like the person above Ive done tons of 8x12's and they look great. I havent ventured larger yet. Not out of fear, just no need too. I might give it a shot and see how it looks.

jblann said:

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

Click to expand...

Again like above, all focal lengths have produced great shots whether raw or jpeg.

jblann said:

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Click to expand...

Fabulous. This is the best designed p&s ive seen. Its tough as Ive dropped it a couple times but still functions perfectly. And the manual controls are as slr as you can get on a p&s.

If nothing else I would say rent it and try it out.

jblann said:

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

Click to expand...

I haven't done any huge prints like that, but the 828 does excellent 12x18's out of the digital minilabs I've used. The quality is still there to go bigger i'm sure.

jblann said:

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

Click to expand...

You'll either like or hate the huge amount of depth of field the 828 gives you in comparison to the dSLR's you use. Even at 28mm and F2.0 you'll still get excellent quality. The key is staying in ISO64 or ISO100 though, 200 is usable also, with a bit of post-processing, but 400 and 800 aren't going to give you good results.

jblann said:

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Click to expand...

The 828 is the best built camera (outside of an SLR) i've ever seen. My year old 828 is over 10,000 shots and i've had no problems yet. The lens is still quite smooth to zoom and the camera swivel still has good resistance.

I bet you'll enjoy being able to use the 828 like it's a medium format with a waist level finder too. It's so nice not having to put it up to your eye everytime to get a shot.

Have a good trip.
Frank / http://www.abstrakt.org

First of all, you have a great gallery!!! It's very inspirational!

I have no F828, but I have something other to consider... Did you think of a 20D and a Sigma 18-125? The combination might not seem as slick as the F828, but it has got good High ISO performance to boost up the speed.
Of course you'd miss out on the swivel lens, laser assisted AF and IR...
Good luck deciding!!! The F design is really cool!
--

• Michiel de Brieder -

In my mind, it IS real



See profile for equipment!
http://www.pbase.com/giel/portfolio

I printed out one 30x40 and basically when hung on the wall, usually from 3 or more feet (normal passing by distance) it looks very good, almost as if it has as much detail as a picture can have.

--
http://www.airness23.com

jblann said:

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

Click to expand...

They say that the minimum resolution to print normally is 72dpi.

Given that an 828 gives a max resolution of 3264 x 2448, printing at 40" x 30" gives a dpi of approximately 82, without the software having to do some interpolation.

Of course, it is more ideal if you could get about 300dpi (considered to be photo quality). That would put the maximum "photo quality" print at 10.88" x 8.16".

That being said, software these days and premium printing paper can crank out very high-quality prints (barely discernable from 300dpi!) at just 180 dpi or lower. With 180 dpi you can print at 18.13" x 13.6".

I'm no expert, but I think you can get those 30 x 40 prints if you use interpolation and don't care if the detail is flawless in every square inch.

WASSIM

Airness23 said:

I printed out one 30x40 and basically when hung on the wall,
usually from 3 or more feet (normal passing by distance) it looks
very good, almost as if it has as much detail as a picture can have.

--
http://www.airness23.com

Click to expand...

--
Airness:

Just to make sure I follow........this is a 30 x 40 from an F828 image file? If so, this is awesome to me. Was this a RAW format, TIFF or high quality JPEG. I have been itching to produce some 24" x 36" prints, but 30" x 40" is sooooooooo radical to me. I have been dying to go to Yosemite and shoot lots of pics--a picture WORTHY of being in 24" x 36" print (or bigger).

Loren Roque

a Sony 828 is your walk-around camera!!!!! How big are those Canon cameras anyway?

I like mine. Great for casual photographs.

John, thanks for the reply.

What is a "PF" issue? Focus?

John Wharton said:

Just a question. I assume you are aware of the dreaded PF issue
with the 828?

Click to expand...

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

TheIX said:

TheIX said:

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828?

Click to expand...

Oooh. 30x40 may be stretching it a bit. Like the person above Ive
done tons of 8x12's and they look great. I havent ventured larger
yet. Not out of fear, just no need too. I might give it a shot and
see how it looks.

Click to expand...

I will have to find some full res files and give it a shot.

TheIX said:

TheIX said:

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

Click to expand...

Again like above, all focal lengths have produced great shots
whether raw or jpeg.

Click to expand...

This is great to hear!

TheIX said:

TheIX said:

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Click to expand...

Fabulous. This is the best designed p&s ive seen. Its tough as Ive
dropped it a couple times but still functions perfectly. And the
manual controls are as slr as you can get on a p&s.

Click to expand...

I have the same thing with the 1DMk2. I dropped one with a 70-200 F2.8L and a 550EX flash 7-8 feet onto concrete. Camera dinged, still works flawlessly, flash shoe broke ($50 repair), lens stopped communicating with camera ($79 repair). All in all, I was pretty relieved!

TheIX said:

If nothing else I would say rent it and try it out.

Click to expand...

The closest rental center is about 100 miles away, and I am booked. I am going to have go into this a little blind, I'm afraid.

Thank you!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

Hey, Frank -

Frank Lemire said:

jblann said:

2) I was wondering about how well the image quality stood up at
various focal lengths.

Click to expand...

You'll either like or hate the huge amount of depth of field the
828 gives you in comparison to the dSLR's you use. Even at 28mm
and F2.0 you'll still get excellent quality. The key is staying
in ISO64 or ISO100 though, 200 is usable also, with a bit of
post-processing, but 400 and 800 aren't going to give you good
results.

Click to expand...

THANK YOU! This is the kind of info I was looking for!

Frank Lemire said:

Frank Lemire said:

3) Any thoughts about basic durability?

Click to expand...

The 828 is the best built camera (outside of an SLR) i've ever
seen. My year old 828 is over 10,000 shots and i've had no
problems yet. The lens is still quite smooth to zoom and the
camera swivel still has good resistance.

I bet you'll enjoy being able to use the 828 like it's a medium
format with a waist level finder too. It's so nice not having to
put it up to your eye everytime to get a shot.

Have a good trip.
Frank / http://www.abstrakt.org

Click to expand...

THanks for all the great info, Frank!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

--
Dee

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=344983

mdebrieder said:

First of all, you have a great gallery!!! It's very inspirational!

Click to expand...

Thank you! It's pretty old, but I will have a new flash driven site this winter!

mdebrieder said:

I have no F828, but I have something other to consider... Did you
think of a 20D and a Sigma 18-125? The combination might not seem
as slick as the F828, but it has got good High ISO performance to
boost up the speed.

Click to expand...

I thought about that. Might still do it, but, to be honest, I am looking for something that I can hand to my assistant or wife as a good P&S.

mdebrieder said:

Of course you'd miss out on the swivel lens, laser assisted AF and
IR...

Click to expand...

When I first heard about the swivel lens, I was thinking "Give me a BREAK!" Then I tried it out. LOVE IT!

mdebrieder said:

Good luck deciding!!! The F design is really cool!

Click to expand...

Thanks!

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

Hey!

Airness23 said:

I printed out one 30x40 and basically when hung on the wall,
usually from 3 or more feet (normal passing by distance) it looks
very good, almost as if it has as much detail as a picture can have.

Click to expand...

3 feet?!? My 30x40's pass at about 8 inches, sometimes less. What sort of printing did you do? What kind of subject? Sometimes with some detail shots, like an aerial for example, I can see digital artifact at 3 feet.

Single subject or small family group portrait, no problem...

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

Wassim Mikati said:

Wassim Mikati said:

1) I routinely print 30x40's out of my 1DMk2. Can I do the same
with the 828? These would be small group shots (5-6 people) in
front of Epcot, etc.

Click to expand...

They say that the minimum resolution to print normally is 72dpi.

Given that an 828 gives a max resolution of 3264 x 2448, printing
at 40" x 30" gives a dpi of approximately 82, without the software
having to do some interpolation.

Of course, it is more ideal if you could get about 300dpi
(considered to be photo quality). That would put the maximum "photo
quality" print at 10.88" x 8.16".

That being said, software these days and premium printing paper can
crank out very high-quality prints (barely discernable from
300dpi!) at just 180 dpi or lower. With 180 dpi you can print at
18.13" x 13.6".

I'm no expert, but I think you can get those 30 x 40 prints if you
use interpolation and don't care if the detail is flawless in every
square inch.

WASSIM

Click to expand...

Thanks, Wassim! I am going to have to find a downloadable file to play with. I am using an Epson 10000 that does a great job. We'll see!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

JPLane said:

a Sony 828 is your walk-around camera!!!!! How big are those Canon
cameras anyway?

Click to expand...

LOL! A 1DMk2, with a couple of L series lenses can weigh a TON. Especially chasing around a couple small boys!

JPLane said:

I like mine. Great for casual photographs.

Click to expand...

Exactly what I'm looking for!
--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

Dee Golden said:

--
Dee

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=344983

Click to expand...

--
'Price is only an issue in the absence of value.'

Equipment list in profile

PF refers to purple fringing. The 828 is noted for this. PF occurrs under high contrast conditions typically when bright light is coming directly into the lens. For example, taking pictures of trees with a very bright or white sky behind the trees and high shading within the branches. You will see a purple color along the areas of high contrast.

Search STF for PF to see postings on the issue. There are fixes such as shay's actions and plugins such as CAFREE and PFFREE to take care of PF in the imagesm or it can be manually edited out in PhotoShop or other programs.

I just wanted you to be aware of this issue on the 828. It is not always present but does show up at times particularly if taking pictures of cars under bright lights and shiny metal objects.

John

PF refers to purple-fringe. I am surprised none of the PF patrol has shown up to berate you for even thinking about an 828.

In all seriousness though, PF is a type of chromatic aberation. It is a little more prevelant on the 828 than some of the competition, and the biggest issue the camera's detractors complain about, even though none of them own the camera. I did a study on it and found that the reason the 828 shows more than the competition is because of the fact that the Sony takes sharper pictures, and because it tends to over-expose slightly when the camera is in full auto. It pops up most often in broad daylight or flourescent, when the subject is heavily backlit with no fill, or under intense reflections on water or chrome. Basically any time that contrast is very high and proper exposure is naturally difficult anyway.

What about it then? Should you not get the camera? No, don't let it concern you that much. I researched it and found that PF does appear in all cameras, and there are easy ways to minimize it, then there are Shay's action, and other plugins to get rid of it in post. First, any time PF is likely, use a small aperture. Wide apertures, particularly at the maximum wide or tele focal lengths agrivate the problem. Also, the focal length it's self can have an effect, with 28mm being the worst, 200mm being second worse, and most everything inbetween being better by a measure of degrees. Second, some people find that it occurs less when the 828 is shooting in the "real" color mode. Others say it does not make a difference, you'll have to be the judge. Some have had success with one of Hoya's UV filters also helping to reduce PF, not to mention it protects the lens when out with the kids in crouds, though I hope someone will chime in since I forgot the model. And yes, the model is important because other filters have not seemed to work as well. Finally, someone else went so far as to prove that focal point effects it as well. The further in front of or behind the brightest highlight the focus was set, the more likely or worse the PF would be.

PF is present with this camera, and any other large zoom camera as well. Are there ways to reduce it? Of course. Are there ways to get rid of it? You bet you can in post, and in not more than a couple minutes. Should it scare you away from what is a fast, great handleing, brilliant camera for the purpose you outlined above? Not a chance.

-Dylan