Minolta challenge

Alex P · May 23, 2001

These comments alone derate this camera to more gimick than the
true 'digital film' camera that the E-10 represents...

I prefer my 'canvas' to be my PC's monitor via PhotoShop. I have enough

of a challenge finding the subject, optimizing its framing, lighting, and ensuring camera settings are optimized in the field without having to consider a Digital Effects Control Panel !!

I really have no love for digital viewfinders either....

JustMyDosCentavos,
Alex P
Orlando

" The photographer's vision is supported by the ferroelectric LCD Digital Hyper Viewfinder which displays clear full frame, high resolution images. The viewfinder serves as a canvas where photographers can apply various effects to control image quality.

Control over the image is the strength of the DiMAGE 7 and DiMAGE 5. The Digital Effects Control gives the photographer the ability to adjust contrast, saturation, and exposure to optimise results "

Pat Glenn · May 23, 2001

I read through the whole thread to make sure no one had mentioned this:

Compared to our E-10's, the Minolta is a tiny lightweight. It's dimensions are 4X3X4 compared to The E-10's 5X6X4! It weighs 1 1/3 pounds compared to the E-10's 2 1/4 pounds. This thing is smaller and lighter than a Nikon 990, which is itself almost too light. It might be good as a second camera, but give up the stability that weight and size bring to the table? Never.

Not only that, but the lens is a full stop slower at it's fastest, and, as is to be expected, a full stop slower than 2.4 at 3.9 in tele.

I think most of us mad a decision about the E-10 based on price and utility, not on "bells and whistles." We're mostly a crew of picture "makers," not "takers." As attractive, in some ways, as the Dimage 7 sounds, there's still no real comparison.

Now an E-11(?) with longer zoom, higher resolution and faster shutter speeds???...All bets are off!

Pat

Bob Robertson said:
Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Pat Glenn · May 23, 2001

That's MADE a decision, not mad a decision!

Pat Glenn said:
Compared to our E-10's, the Minolta is a tiny lightweight. It's
dimensions are 4X3X4 compared to The E-10's 5X6X4! It weighs 1 1/3
pounds compared to the E-10's 2 1/4 pounds. This thing is smaller
and lighter than a Nikon 990, which is itself almost too light. It
might be good as a second camera, but give up the stability that
weight and size bring to the table? Never.

Not only that, but the lens is a full stop slower at it's fastest,
and, as is to be expected, a full stop slower than 2.4 at 3.9 in
tele.

I think most of us mad a decision about the E-10 based on price and
utility, not on "bells and whistles." We're mostly a crew of
picture "makers," not "takers." As attractive, in some ways, as
the Dimage 7 sounds, there's still no real comparison.

Now an E-11(?) with longer zoom, higher resolution and faster
shutter speeds???...All bets are off!

Pat

Bob Robertson said:

Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Click to expand...

Ger Bee · May 23, 2001

Guess we know why they announced their Dimage killer so soon -- and here I was expecting something exciting from Nikon!! Ah well the pints on me tonight, and I'll drink to Oly, whom with by the by I still expect to keep my E10 for power and flash compatibility.

Bob Robertson said:
Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

David Nicholls37683 · May 23, 2001

A very interesting beast, at first look, but I don't think there's any reason to change from the E10 unless you're one who must have the latest hottest numbers on whatever you use. (A give-away: what's your PC processor speed? 1.7 gigs?)

Ansell Adams also took some memorable images on a Polaroid. If you have the talent, you can use any competent camera. If not, you'll mess up with any camera.

Also, even now, long zooms are a compromise: 3:1 has usually been considered the best you can get while maintaining premium image quality. Maybe 4:1 is now a better number, with advanced optical materials and CAD, but I'd want to test carefully anything that says 7:1. There's likely to be an image quality compromise, somehwere.

The E10 has that intangible "something" that few cameras have - either to look at or hold. It creates confidence in the user. I don't think the Dimage 7 has that, to judge by Phil's pre-review. (And I mainly use a Minolta 9 as my film camera).

DN

Ger Bee said:
Bob Robertson said:

Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Click to expand...

Bob Robertson43546 · May 23, 2001

The bottom line is development .. I love the E-10 but it doesnt work for me as it is and you all have been expressing desire for development. Oly have been too mum about whats in the pipeline. For me the Minolta announcement is a timely prompt for Oly to give us hope of something better. A major part of my work is archiving 10k-15k images in as many days. I'm holding out for higher buffer clearing speed, better LCD as is Minolta's for AV previewing via TV monitor. The best would be IEEE1394 as with camcorders for both preview and progressive downloads, and save all the mucking around with media to check results on the laptop. The manufacturers are still caught up with Ye Olde Fillum types that arent integrating their computers with the action. Theres more to photography than simply being out on the range ........ wot about us back in the sudio? great the ee the reactions ... Go for it Oly

David Nicholls said:
Ansell Adams also took some memorable images on a Polaroid. If you
have the talent, you can use any competent camera. If not, you'll
mess up with any camera.

Also, even now, long zooms are a compromise: 3:1 has usually been
considered the best you can get while maintaining premium image
quality. Maybe 4:1 is now a better number, with advanced optical
materials and CAD, but I'd want to test carefully anything that
says 7:1. There's likely to be an image quality compromise,
somehwere.

The E10 has that intangible "something" that few cameras have -
either to look at or hold. It creates confidence in the user. I
don't think the Dimage 7 has that, to judge by Phil's pre-review.
(And I mainly use a Minolta 9 as my film camera).

DN

David Nicholls37683 said:

Bob Robertson said:

Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Damond · May 23, 2001

The new Minolta should be considered as a younger brother of the E-10. It is lighter, perhaps slightly more advanced and is priced somewhere between prosumer class camera and E-10. I think it is a serious contender to Nikon's 995 or C2100z rather than to an E-10.

I started with C-3030 and then E-10 for a few months now. Next natural step is clearly a Nikon D1X, which is truly the contender of E-10 if we don't talk about price.

Ciao

David T. · May 23, 2001

When the price of the E10 drops because of market pressure, I'm going to run out and buy my SECOND one! It shoots a perfect half page image at 300DPI. The next step up is a camera that will shoot a full page. That means 6 or even 8 megapixel to get an 18mg or better file. I would think any amature using the E10 should be tickled pink already, and any pro should be waiting for a reasonably priced digital back for his Blad. 'Till then, this camera is fantastic!
DavidT

Mike Greer · May 23, 2001

I find most of the comments in this thread to be very amusing. Myself, I'm a Canon type guy. But I keep my eye on all digital developments. Until we can actually handle the Dimage 7 we don't really know how good this camera might be. So far, just about everybody in this thread has knocked the machine in one way or another. I keep reading it's not really an E-10 competitor. Why not? The specs look very good. Real life image quality is still an unknown. Its handling is an unknown. Its street price is an unknown. Its low light abilities are unknown. We just don't know enough yet to say what kind of machine it is nor which cameras will be most threatened by its presence. Maybe it won't turn out to be an E-10 competitor, but maybe it will. At this point, who knows?

All we can say is that it is a very intriquing machine, pending further review.

Michael Williams · May 23, 2001

Have you ever checked out Minolta lens quality??? Bells and whistles galore mean nought if the lens isn't there. Canon does a great job (I'm an L-series fan myself) but noone is beating Oly on there digital lenses right now.

As far as I'm concerned, Minolta will never have an E-10 competitor, but Canon might...

Mike Greer said:
I find most of the comments in this thread to be very amusing.
Myself, I'm a Canon type guy. But I keep my eye on all digital
developments. Until we can actually handle the Dimage 7 we don't
really know how good this camera might be. So far, just about
everybody in this thread has knocked the machine in one way or
another. I keep reading it's not really an E-10 competitor. Why
not? The specs look very good. Real life image quality is still an
unknown. Its handling is an unknown. Its street price is an
unknown. Its low light abilities are unknown. We just don't know
enough yet to say what kind of machine it is nor which cameras will
be most threatened by its presence. Maybe it won't turn out to be
an E-10 competitor, but maybe it will. At this point, who knows?

All we can say is that it is a very intriquing machine, pending
further review.

probepro · May 23, 2001

If I owned an E-10, I'd probably be feeling a bit defensive right now too. But if the main reason you prefer the E-10 over the D-7 is looks, I've got a Rolex I'll sell you for $50. Of course, it has a Timex movement, but it doesn't look like tacky consumer junk.

Bottom line, the D-7 is the camera to beat this year, and the E-10 is still a very nice camera.

Chuck

Peter Hughes said:
I wonder if the people at Minolta realize how incredibly ugly their
cameras are. If it was the greatest camera in the world I still
wouldn't buy it because of the looks, which scream TACKY PIECE OF
CONSUMER JUNK. The E-10, on the other hand, looks very pro, very
sleek and beatuiful.

Let us thank the gods that, for most manufacturers, the ghastly
"retro" styling craze seems to be over. Canon abandoned it with the
Elan 7, which is one of the reasons why I bought one. The Elan II
was a great camera but it had looks only a mother could love.

mlodge · May 23, 2001

Bob Robertson said:
Oly have been too mum about whats in the pipeline. For
me the Minolta announcement is a timely prompt for Oly to give us
hope of something better.

Speaking as someone who runs product management teams for a living, I'd think Olympus was nuts if they hinted at some future product when the E10 was selling so well. You only tell the world about new products when you have nothing to lose by stalling out the competition -- as in Minolta's case -- or your new product is very close to shipping and you want to ramp up demand ahead of release.

People stop buying and hang on to their hard earned cash if they think there's something new coming out soon. If they don't know about it, they buy what you have to sell at the moment.

It's called the "Osborne" effect -- after the early portable PC company of the same name. Osborne announced that they were developing a new whiz-bang portable that would be even better than their current product. Sales of the current product promptly stalled and the company went bust before it could finish developing its new product -- which was over a year from being ready to sell.

Cheers,

Mathew

The best would be IEEE1394 as with camcorders for both

Bob Robertson43546 said:
preview and progressive downloads, and save all the mucking around
with media to check results on the laptop. The manufacturers are
still caught up with Ye Olde Fillum types that arent integrating
their computers with the action. Theres more to photography than
simply being out on the range ........ wot about us back in the
sudio? great the ee the reactions ... Go for it Oly

David Nicholls said:

Ansell Adams also took some memorable images on a Polaroid. If you
have the talent, you can use any competent camera. If not, you'll
mess up with any camera.

Also, even now, long zooms are a compromise: 3:1 has usually been
considered the best you can get while maintaining premium image
quality. Maybe 4:1 is now a better number, with advanced optical
materials and CAD, but I'd want to test carefully anything that
says 7:1. There's likely to be an image quality compromise,
somehwere.

The E10 has that intangible "something" that few cameras have -
either to look at or hold. It creates confidence in the user. I
don't think the Dimage 7 has that, to judge by Phil's pre-review.
(And I mainly use a Minolta 9 as my film camera).

DN

Bob Robertson43546 said:

Bob Robertson said:

Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

probepro · May 23, 2001

The price of the E-10 better come down long before year end if Oly wants to sell them.

Chuck

DennisB said:
Keep in mind...this review is on a pre-production unit. That
equates to a probable release several months down the road with
shortages quickly occuring on release. Anyone who has owned a
computer has been throught this techno change before. In my
opinion, the E10 will be around for quite a while just due to its
rugged construction and stable performance. There is always
something greater around the corner but the E10 has made its mark.
The best all of us can expect may be some downward pricing by
Olympus, once the Minolta is produced and some sizable market share
is being seen. (year end)

Tony T C Lau · May 23, 2001

Though the Dimage 7 lens does not have the wonderful wide aperture that E-10 has, and may have more distortion on the extreme zoom ends, the sample images so far indicate it has a reasonably sharp lens that matches well with the CCD, and CA is very well controlled, esp considering the 7x zoom range.

But boy does the camera look ugly!

Michael Williams said:
Have you ever checked out Minolta lens quality??? Bells and
whistles galore mean nought if the lens isn't there. Canon does a
great job (I'm an L-series fan myself) but noone is beating Oly on
there digital lenses right now.
As far as I'm concerned, Minolta will never have an E-10
competitor, but Canon might...

Tony T C Lau · May 23, 2001

According to a Japanese digital camera website, Dimage 7 will be available for sale June 23. Olympus needs to act quickly in order to maintain its niche in the high-end prosumer market.

DennisB said:
Keep in mind...this review is on a pre-production unit. That
equates to a probable release several months down the road with
shortages quickly occuring on release. Anyone who has owned a
computer has been throught this techno change before. In my
opinion, the E10 will be around for quite a while just due to its
rugged construction and stable performance. There is always
something greater around the corner but the E10 has made its mark.
The best all of us can expect may be some downward pricing by
Olympus, once the Minolta is produced and some sizable market share
is being seen. (year end)

Harry43218 · May 23, 2001

anyone else notice the noise in the iso tests? imagine that!

John W. · May 24, 2001

I fail to see how anybody can make such sweeping statements about a camera that you have never held or used and has only been reviewed in pre-production. There is more to a digital camera, and photography in general, than just some new features and more pixels.

How does it perform in different conditions ? Specifications and actual performance are very different things, it might turn out to be an absolute 'dog'.

Sure, when the Minolta is generally available I will try and evaluate it and if it is better than its competitors I will consider. Until then it is just words and pictures.
John W.

Bob Robertson said:
Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

grc · May 24, 2001

Yup,

My walls are wallpapered with prints actually.

GRC

Ken Huckeba said:
Bob Robertson said:

Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Click to expand...

One of the night shots from Steve's page is LOADED with hot pixels.
Someone pulled the EXIF on it and said it was 1 second. I looked at
all of the samples from all of the tests and really like the camera
except it's UGLY! It tested 25% better resolution than my E-10.
Bigger file sizes for better printing and all that but I don't
think I'll be trading up any time soon. One aspect is that I'm just
now getting comfortable with the E-10, learning it's foibles and
how to tweak it. The other thing is I'm just not able to spend any
more money on the hobby and am quite happy with the E-10. In the
grand scheme of things, I still love it and this Dimage 7 is truly
just a nudge better than the E-10. Now, when the improvement is
huge, I may bite. One thing that's bothering me already is that
since I don't print much, the E-10 is overkill itself. Going
bigger, better would have to make more sense to me and that's not
likely to happen. Check out my photopoint Mt. Frazier pictures.
Some are fantastic but I goofed some of them up and that's what I'm
talking about. Since I don't have a LOT of time to give the hobby,
I have to maximize.

One key thing for me also is the view finder. I never use the LCD
except for reviewing pictures.

I've got a question for the printing crowd out here: What do you do
with all of those prints? Is your house wallpapered with them?
All of my prints from my 35mm days are just collecting dust.
That's what got me so excited about digital and why I bought the
E-10. Everyone I know has a computer and when I want to share,
well, you know the rest!

Ken

Damond · May 24, 2001

You're right. No nobody in this forum has touched the Minolta. Not yet. However speculation is the fun part of this hobby business and this forum. Without it this forum will be less fun. Some of E-10 owners quietly wish the Minolta is a dog. Some of those who do not own or are unable to make a purchase decision on E-10s wish that it is a good replacement for E-10 or help bringing the E-10 price down to a more affordable level. So they can buy and enjoy an E-10 at a reduced price. Some of us may eventually own both a E-10 and the new Minolta, simultaneously or one after another. Some of us seriously considered both and eventually go/stick to the Canon or Nikon camp. And we call ourselves human being hobbiests. It is so much fun to just read the forum.

John W. said:
Bob Robertson said:

Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

Click to expand...

Pepe · May 24, 2001

Next year will be the next Oly 5Megapixel SLR with interchangeable lenses, with Kodak CCD and I think Flashpoint's Digita X as well for less than US$1600! Now that will be a camera to wait for...

Bob Robertson said:
Heres hoping Oly get on with an E-10 successor with the D-7
announcement today. I for one will be going to Minolta Dimage 7
unless Oly fight back before July

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