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70-200 Nikkor VR - HELP!!!!!!!

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Romario

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Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the 70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 = 3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
 
Romano,

Zooms get described in two ways unfortunately. The most useful, I find, is the magnification ratio: 10x is ten times larger than normal.

The other way is to state the zoom range as a ratio of the widest focal length to the longest focal length and has nothing to do with magnification nor the angle of view through the lens. Using this method a lens with a range of 300mm to 3000mm would be described as being a 10x zoom as would a 3mm to 30mm lens.

Compare the actual focal lengths of the lenses and the angle the lens covers at the telephoto end to see which actually provides the most telephoto effect.
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/gcweeks
 
I detect some camera dealer flooby dust...
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).
Click to expand...
So for the maximum effective focal length you have: max = 200 x 1.5 x 1.4

Now do the same with the minimum effective focal length: min = 70 x 1.5 x 1.4

Aha! The ratio of max/min is still 200/70.

However the range of focal lengths covered is (200 - 70) x 1.5 x 1.4
Romario said:
My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?
Click to expand...
No.
Romario said:
If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
Have I confused the issue?

Bob Peters
 
Before you buy a 70-200 zoom, you might want to reflect on my experience in the message,

" Wide-aperature zooms -- The sad DOF truth"

Mel
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
 
Romario said:
70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.
Click to expand...
If really you want to think about it like that, then 200(long end of combo) / 18 (wide end of combo) X 1.4 (TC) = 15.55X magnification from the short end of the kits lens to the long end of the VR. But the zoom "factor" for each lens separately with the TC is as you said, 3.88 (or 5.44 with the TC) and 4X.

However, I don't really find it useful to think about it like that. Instead, I would think about it this way: you have a total focal length range of 18-280mm (including the TC). Once you use your system a bit more, those numbers will be more meaningful to you, and will be easier to think about while lens shopping.

Hope this helps.

--Adria
--



http://www.pbase.com/adriainpdx
 
I do too, but don't forget he can take the TC on and off :)
Robert Peters said:
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).
Click to expand...
So for the maximum effective focal length you have: max = 200 x
1.5 x 1.4

Now do the same with the minimum effective focal length: min = 70
x 1.5 x 1.4

Aha! The ratio of max/min is still 200/70.

However the range of focal lengths covered is (200 - 70) x 1.5 x 1.4
Robert Peters said:
My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?
Click to expand...
No.
Robert Peters said:
If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
Have I confused the issue?

Bob Peters
Click to expand...
--



http://www.pbase.com/adriainpdx
 
the 70-200 is roughly a 3x zoom meaning that it longest reach(200mm) is three times more powerful than its widest(70mm)........70 x 3 = 210...

With the teleconverter on, it stays the same... 98mm up to 280mm.... still roughly the same..3x
With the ccd magnification it's still the same. 105-300 or with TC 147mm-420mm

In general with zoom lenses, the smaller the magnification, the higher quality you will get throughout the range of the lens. ie. a 3x zoom will perform better than a 4x zoom. I think that you may be trying to compare an slr with a modern p&s that offers 10-12x magnification. An slr can go way beyond this figure but you would need a few lenses to accomplish this. Picture this kit.....10.5mm,12-24,35,50,70-200,300,500mm.,& a 2x teleconverter. After converting to digital, the fisheye becomes a 16mm...the widest that you can go. take the 500mm lens, put on the TC, convert to digital.... It's now effectively a 1500mm lens. your kit roughly has a 94x magnification range.....(16mm x 93.75 = 1500mm)
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
 
This might help...

70-200 VR
200 mm = 8 deg
70 mm = 22 deg
Focal Length Ration = 2.75:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 8 or 10 power (binocular strength)

18-70 DX
18 mm = 76 deg
70 mm = 22deg 50 min
Focal Length Ratio = 3.9:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 3 power
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/gcweeks
 
One of the worst things they have ever done is apply an "X" factor to a camera lens. It was done in the prosumer models to sell cameras. Most consumers equate the X factor to that in binocs and telescopes. The X factor as applied to cam lenses doesn't work that way. Here's the tricky part:

Your dealer is correct as it applies to the min vs the max MAGNIFICATION of that lens only. The max is "X" times stronger than the min. in magnification terms.

You are correct as zoom power applies in 35MM camera terms. The 70-200 at max zoom plus the 1.4TC will give you the equiv of 420MM in 35MM film size terms.

Ain't that a hoot! My suggestion -- forget the X factor. That's something for the prosumer guys to discuss while not understanding what they are talking about and for people buying binocs -- and the two are not related. Think about cam lenses just as you are -- in 35MM terms. That way with the 2 lenses and the 1.4TC you are covered from 18MM to 420MM equiv. Thinking about it the way the X factor is applied to prosumer cam lenses, that is 23.3X -- but don't think about it that way. :)

That make sense?

Phil
 
George Weeks said:
70-200 VR
200 mm = 8 deg
70 mm = 22 deg
Focal Length Ration = 2.75:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 8 or 10 power (binocular
strength)

18-70 DX
18 mm = 76 deg
70 mm = 22deg 50 min
Focal Length Ratio = 3.9:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 3 power
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/gcweeks
Click to expand...
 
Not to nitpick, but if you really want to count it in 35mm terms, make sure you apply the 1.5X crop factor to the wide end too, thus making it effectively 27-420mm. Which is 15.55X, not 23.3X. :)

And of course, that's total range, not magnification factor. So don't think about it that way. ;-)

--Adria
Phil Youngblood said:
One of the worst things they have ever done is apply an "X" factor
to a camera lens. It was done in the prosumer models to sell
cameras. Most consumers equate the X factor to that in binocs and
telescopes. The X factor as applied to cam lenses doesn't work that
way. Here's the tricky part:

Your dealer is correct as it applies to the min vs the max
MAGNIFICATION of that lens only. The max is "X" times stronger
than the min. in magnification terms.

You are correct as zoom power applies in 35MM camera terms. The
70-200 at max zoom plus the 1.4TC will give you the equiv of
420MM in 35MM film size terms.

Ain't that a hoot! My suggestion -- forget the X factor. That's
something for the prosumer guys to discuss while not understanding
what they are talking about and for people buying binocs -- and the
two are not related. Think about cam lenses just as you are -- in
35MM terms. That way with the 2 lenses and the 1.4TC you are
covered from 18MM to 420MM equiv. Thinking about it the way the X
factor is applied to prosumer cam lenses, that is 23.3X -- but
don't think about it that way. :)

That make sense?

Phil
Click to expand...
--



http://www.pbase.com/adriainpdx
 
Adria said:
Not to nitpick, but if you really want to count it in 35mm terms,
make sure you apply the 1.5X crop factor to the wide end too, thus
making it effectively 27-420mm. Which is 15.55X, not 23.3X. :)

And of course, that's total range, not magnification factor. So
don't think about it that way. ;-)
Click to expand...
Oops. Did I mention I have trouble typing and thinking at the same time? :)

Well -- I did tell him don't think about it. ((grin))

Phil
 
He's talking in degrees of view. If you spun around and looked all around you, that would be a 360 degree view. If you stayed still and took a picture with a 70mm lens on a 35mm camera, that would be a 22 degree view. If you took a picture with that same lens on the D70, you would see a 14.66 degree view, which is roughly equivalent to the field of view of a 105mm lens in 35mm format. That's what is refered to as the 1.5X "crop factor." Make sense?

--Adria
flat five said:
George Weeks said:
70-200 VR
200 mm = 8 deg
70 mm = 22 deg
Focal Length Ration = 2.75:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 8 or 10 power (binocular
strength)

18-70 DX
18 mm = 76 deg
70 mm = 22deg 50 min
Focal Length Ratio = 3.9:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 3 power
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/gcweeks
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--



http://www.pbase.com/adriainpdx
 
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
--
Viva

Larry.
 
George Weeks said:
This might help...

70-200 VR
200 mm = 8 deg
70 mm = 22 deg
Focal Length Ration = 2.75:1
Maximum magnification: approximately 8 or 10 power (binocular
strength)
Click to expand...
In angle of view, yes, but in terms of equiv magnification it's more like a 4X to 5X -- closer to 4X.

Phil
 
Phil Youngblood said:
One of the worst things they have ever done is apply an "X" factor
to a camera lens. It was done in the prosumer models to sell
cameras. Most consumers equate the X factor to that in binocs and
telescopes. The X factor as applied to cam lenses doesn't work that
way. Here's the tricky part:

Your dealer is correct as it applies to the min vs the max
MAGNIFICATION of that lens only. The max is "X" times stronger
than the min. in magnification terms.

You are correct as zoom power applies in 35MM camera terms. The
70-200 at max zoom plus the 1.4TC will give you the equiv of
420MM in 35MM film size terms.

Ain't that a hoot! My suggestion -- forget the X factor. That's
something for the prosumer guys to discuss while not understanding
what they are talking about and for people buying binocs -- and the
two are not related. Think about cam lenses just as you are -- in
35MM terms. That way with the 2 lenses and the 1.4TC you are
covered from 18MM to 420MM equiv. Thinking about it the way the X
factor is applied to prosumer cam lenses, that is 23.3X -- but
don't think about it that way. :)

That make sense?

Phil
Click to expand...
 
i understand, i understand

my "say what" comment was directed towards george. i think that his post would add to the confusion in the original question. I think this thread is getting too out there..... I agree with youngblood...don't think about it. This is stuff that i wouldn't be concerned with if i were in the market for a new lens or new slr..
 
Let me restate the question as follows - focal range and magnification aside - if I am standing 1,000 meters away from a bear, how much closer does the 70-200+1.4TC pull the bear in vs the 18-70 kit lens?? Based on each lens zoom capability where does it place me (or equivalent thereof) in relation to the Bear? Can I expect a big difference in filling the picture frame with the Bear by using the 70-200?????
Phil Youngblood said:
One of the worst things they have ever done is apply an "X" factor
to a camera lens. It was done in the prosumer models to sell
cameras. Most consumers equate the X factor to that in binocs and
telescopes. The X factor as applied to cam lenses doesn't work that
way. Here's the tricky part:

Your dealer is correct as it applies to the min vs the max
MAGNIFICATION of that lens only. The max is "X" times stronger
than the min. in magnification terms.

You are correct as zoom power applies in 35MM camera terms. The
70-200 at max zoom plus the 1.4TC will give you the equiv of
420MM in 35MM film size terms.

Ain't that a hoot! My suggestion -- forget the X factor. That's
something for the prosumer guys to discuss while not understanding
what they are talking about and for people buying binocs -- and the
two are not related. Think about cam lenses just as you are -- in
35MM terms. That way with the 2 lenses and the 1.4TC you are
covered from 18MM to 420MM equiv. Thinking about it the way the X
factor is applied to prosumer cam lenses, that is 23.3X -- but
don't think about it that way. :)

That make sense?

Phil
Click to expand...
 
Last time.

Max focal length of VR70-200 + 1.4 TC = 280mm.

This is exactly 4X the magnification of the max focal length of the 18-70.

So the bear would appear 4 times as large to you in the picture frame at "maximum zoom" using the 70-200mm as opposed to the 18-70mm.

The longer the focal length, the closer the object appears. The long end 70mm on the kit lens is the same "zoom" as the 70mm wide end on the VR. The 70-200mm lens will get you "closer" because it has a longer maximum focal length. The kit lens wide end (18mm) will actually make the bear seem farther away than it looks by your eye -- it is a wide angle zoom and thus allows you to capture more of the scene, useful for landscapes and establishing scale, pictures of crowds, etc.

If you are still confused, I suggest you consult a photography book or visit this website:

http://library.thinkquest.org/25780/guide/focal_length.shtml

--Adria
Romario said:
Let me restate the question as follows - focal range and
magnification aside - if I am standing 1,000 meters away from a
bear, how much closer does the 70-200+1.4TC pull the bear in vs the
18-70 kit lens?? Based on each lens zoom capability where does it
place me (or equivalent thereof) in relation to the Bear? Can I
expect a big difference in filling the picture frame with the Bear
by using the 70-200?????
Click to expand...
 
Notice the "goat tee". He's kind of a tacky fella.

BTW, why use a tripod when you have that VR!
Romario said:
Hi,

I currently use the 18-70 kit lens with my D70. I want to be able
to make a sizeable gain in Zoom capability by purchasing the
70-200VR lens. I figured combined with a 1.4TC the max reach on
this combo is 420mm (200 x 1.5sensor x 1.4TC).

My camera dealer said this 70-200 lens only offered a 4x
magnification. He calculates this as 200/70 = 2.85 x 1.4 = 4x
total. Is this in fact true?

If it is true, does this imply that by applying his same
calculation to the kit lens alone that the x factor is 70/18 =
3.88x.

70-200VR +TC14 = 4x
18-70 Kit = 3.88x

So in essence my question is am I really getting any additional
zoom capability out of 70-200VR + TC1.4 as compared to the kit
lens. Initially I thought the 70-200 combo extending a 420mm range
provided a 10x to 12x magnification.

I am very confused over this and would appreciate it if you good
folks could provide a clearer explanation.

Thanks for your feedback.
Click to expand...
 
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