D'image 7 dead?

Well...nobody in this one-horse town appears to have the June issue just now. So:

Any startling revelations -- or at least some real-world information (as opposed to MarketingSpeak) -- in the Dimage 7 ad? Thanks...
FWIW, Minolta has a full page advertisement for the Dimage 7 in the
new Outdoor Photogrpaher magazine.
 
I am certain that it would be a violation of copyright. Copyright is vested with the creator of the work in the absence of a 'work for hire' agreement. Any magazine carrying a copyright notice -- surely, all of them! -- owns at the least a compilation copyright in the work (the entire magazine) in the absence of other adjacent copyright notices.

And I can think of a gazillion times when I've seen small but legible copyright notices in companies' ads.
Hmmm. You may be right. I didn't think posting a company's
advertisement would be a copyright infringement, given its intent
to reach as many eyes as possible, and get them to buy Minolta
cameras. ;-)
Well...as a practical matter, they might not care enough to hassle anyone who'd reproduced the ad -- for just the reason you have stated. But if I were the owner of a web site, I would never want to take the risk!
 
Photo mags, after dpreview.com, are not what they used to be. Rarely any news. But Popular Photography, May issue, page 65, reports that Dimage 7 ($ 1500-2000) and Dimage 5 (under $ 1000) will be shipping by early fall. The source is Minolta reps at the PMA show.

Ottar
[email protected]
http://hjem.sol.no/~otjohans/
Any startling revelations -- or at least some real-world
information (as opposed to MarketingSpeak) -- in the Dimage 7 ad?
Thanks...
FWIW, Minolta has a full page advertisement for the Dimage 7 in the
new Outdoor Photogrpaher magazine.
 
You're certainly right about the magazines, compared with this web site. Shipping by early Fall? The last "news" I heard (evidently wrong) was to the effect that the camera would be shipping some time in the summer. Ah, well...software companies' schedules "slip" all the time. I suppose camera companies' schedules can as well.

That's an interesting range of prices they're suggesting for the Dimage 7. I wouldn't have thought anything of it had the range been, say, $1500 - $1600. But a five hundred dollar difference? Strange.
Photo mags, after dpreview.com, are not what they used to be.
Rarely any news. But Popular Photography, May issue, page 65,
reports that Dimage 7 ($ 1500-2000) and Dimage 5 (under $ 1000)
will be shipping by early fall. The source is Minolta reps at the
PMA show.
 
Thanks for the info MikeA!

I still have my doubts, since it is an advertisement...with the possibility of being circulated for FREE...BUT you are absolutely right, that the risk isn't worth it.

Curiosity will get the best of me some day I am sure.

Maybe I need to do some reading on copyright law.

Dietmar
And I can think of a gazillion times when I've seen small but
legible copyright notices in companies' ads.
Hmmm. You may be right. I didn't think posting a company's
advertisement would be a copyright infringement, given its intent
to reach as many eyes as possible, and get them to buy Minolta
cameras. ;-)
Well...as a practical matter, they might not care enough to
hassle anyone who'd reproduced the ad -- for just the reason you
have stated. But if I were the owner of a web site, I would never
want to take the risk!
 
Perhaps they had not yet chosen the processor or RAM configuration for the 5MP hardware, and are leaving themselves lots of room to be "right" on the price. They probably want a significantly snappier processor than what they use for the D'image 5. (I am just extrapolating.) You would need significantly more CPU cycles per picture, for sharpening, storage, etc, in addition to the base functions of running the menus, and displays. Also, if there is a burst mode, you need a lot more RAM for buffer.

I know that my current employer has some issues in adding together the prices of hardware for embedded platforms. ;-)

By now, Minolta should have sorted all of this out, ported the software, etc. In fact, I would imagine they are using a higher speed CPU of whatever embedded processor family they are using for the D'image 5, so this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Developing 3 digital cameras simultaniously, including the 3MP Dimage S304, is a challenge, and I would suspect at least 2 different software development streams, since the S304 is completely different from the Dimage 5 and 7 in terms of hardware and target market.

Dietmar
That's an interesting range of prices they're suggesting for the
Dimage 7. I wouldn't have thought anything of it had the range
been, say, $1500 - $1600. But a five hundred dollar difference?
Strange.
 
I still have my doubts, since it is an advertisement...with the
possibility of being circulated for FREE...BUT you are absolutely
right, that the risk isn't worth it.
One out-of-sorts legal department could spoil youir whole bank account...and as I say there could be trouble with the copyrights of suppliers , even if the agency or client were to look the other way as far as the whole ad is concerned.
Maybe I need to do some reading on copyright law.
There's a lot to it...I am no expert but when I took pictures for a living it was something I had to learn a bit about.
 
Well, I tried. I have just finished speaking with someone at a Minolta regional office's customer service department. I suppose the fellow must receive 100 calls a week about the new cameras; he was polite to me in spite of that. :)

He knew nothing. He couldn't even tell me when any announcements would be made. (Nor I suspect even when any announcements would be made about why there haven't been any announcements. :) He has seen only non-working prototypes of the camera and speculates that consumers (armed with copies of populist photography magazines) will hear about the specs and pricing for the camera before he and his co-workers hear about these things.

delayed gratification ... whatever doesn't kill me makes me more neurotic ...
Perhaps they had not yet chosen the processor or RAM configuration
for the 5MP hardware, and are leaving themselves lots of room to be
"right" on the price.
 
I was able to find a copy of the April issue, after all. There is no such ad in it. The June issue, according to the magazine's web site, is not due until May 22.

If you saw this ad in the April 2001 issue, on what page did you see it? If you saw it in the June 2001 issue, how did you obtain a copy before the official publication date?
FWIW, Minolta has a full page advertisement for the Dimage 7 in the
new Outdoor Photogrpaher magazine.
 
I mis-typed (or mis-thought). The issue I have here is the May issue, not the April issue.
I was able to find a copy of the April issue, after all. There is
no such ad in it. The June issue, according to the magazine's web
site, is not due until May 22.
 
I found a bit of info in regards pricing (but, alas, not much more in regards specs) at the J@pan Inc site:

http://www.japaninc.net/gw/2001/03/gw003.html

Estimated price is ¥180,000 (£1050 UK, $1550 US), but they have not posted a release date. Rather strange that they would have an estimated price (for release in Japan) but still have a TBD release date! This would actually make valid the $1500 - $2000 range as who knows what the export price will be.

I am right on the cusp of purchasing an E-10, but am champing at the bit to get info on the DiMage 7. Given a bit more information (even, can i but dream, a pre-production review) Minolta might get my readies 'on the nod'. IF the DiMage 7 realises its potential, my choice is already made.

Mike, Thanks for keeping this thread alive.
 
Popular Photography, May issue, page 65,
reports that Dimage 7 ($ 1500-2000) and Dimage 5 (under $ 1000)
will be shipping by early fall. The source is Minolta reps at the
PMA show.
I contacted Minolta (in the UK) just a couple of days ago and was told that:

"Further details of the specifications will follow late in May 2001, with the products being on general sale through the Summer. DiMAGE 7 will be the first of the models to become available."

So it looks like further details will be announced within the next couple of weeks and that the camera will be in the shops before August. This is for the UK, but I would be very surprised if the USA release date was later than the UK!
 
So, just out of curiousity, are all those instances of people making PDF versions of camera operating manuals, breaking copyright laws and endangering the web site? I have seen several instances of this, and never seen anyone comment that this is a "bad idea."

What think you?

Dietmar
 
DiMAGE 7 will be FIRST? I would have expected the DiMAGE 5 to come first, or at least simultaneously, due to less demanding hardware requirements. Or even the pocket sized one...whose model number eludes me right now.

Dietmar
Popular Photography, May issue, page 65,
reports that Dimage 7 ($ 1500-2000) and Dimage 5 (under $ 1000)
will be shipping by early fall. The source is Minolta reps at the
PMA show.
I contacted Minolta (in the UK) just a couple of days ago and was
told that:

"Further details of the specifications will follow late in May
2001, with the products being on general sale through the Summer.
DiMAGE 7 will be the first of the models to become available."

So it looks like further details will be announced within the next
couple of weeks and that the camera will be in the shops before
August. This is for the UK, but I would be very surprised if the
USA release date was later than the UK!
 
I found a bit of info in regards pricing (but, alas, not much more
in regards specs) at the J@pan Inc site:

http://www.japaninc.net/gw/2001/03/gw003.html
I followed a link there to Minolta/Japan, thinking that site might contain a bit more information about the camera. But there is no English version of the site, and I couldn't check. Very odd: The Minolta Europe site didn't seem to have the Dimage 7 listed at all -- not in its digital-camera section.

Very odd, this complete information blackout (not even rough specs or vague descriptions?). I am wondering if their utter unresponsiveness should be raising a red flag, as it were, in the minds of potential customers. Is it perhaps an indication of how responsive Minolta will be to its customers after the product is released? (I have never owned Minolta camera equipment and have no idea how reasonable, or unreasonable, their service personnel are.)
I am right on the cusp of purchasing an E-10, but am champing at
the bit to get info on the DiMage 7.
Exactly the position in which I find myself (and I suspect you and I are not the only ones). Perhaps it's hoping against hope that someone from Minolta would see any of these messages, but if they do: Folks, you've got potential sales waiting in the wings. But they will perhaps become lost sales if you go on playing this information-hiding game.
 
I contacted Minolta (in the UK) just a couple of days ago and was
told that:
"Further details of the specifications will follow late in May
2001, with the products being on general sale through the Summer.
DiMAGE 7 will be the first of the models to become available."
Will wonders never cease? I couldn't pry even that much information out of Minolta's U.S. west-coast office...and the fellow with whom I spoke couldn't even tell me WHY he couldn't tell me anything. I might have added ":-)" after that remark, under other circumstances. But Minolta's information-hiding game is becoming extremely irritating. I guess they are willing to gamble--if they play the game too long, they are liable to lose sales to the E-10.
 
Will wonders never cease? I couldn't pry even that much information
out of Minolta's U.S. west-coast office...and the fellow with whom
I spoke couldn't even tell me WHY he couldn't tell me anything. I
might have added ":-)" after that remark, under other
circumstances. But Minolta's information-hiding game is becoming
extremely irritating. I guess they are willing to gamble--if they
play the game too long, they are liable to lose sales to the E-10.
This is sounding an awful lot like Daimler Chrysler and the PT Cruiser... sad to say. Lots of hype and then too little information on availability. I hope Minolta's distribution system is better!

I'd like to know how large and heavy the Dimage 7 is, and I await with all of you with bated breath the final price... If both the camera and the price are not too huge it could be the perfect answer to the digital vs film camera question. I'd go all digital myself if I could find a good enough camera. And this might be it!
 
In fairness to Minolta ... per various trade magazine reports, they have simply displayed the camera behind glass and perhaps have let a few folks pick the thing up. They don't seem to be hanging out on forums like these, hyping the camera. The "buzz," such as it is, comes from fools like me who haven't the patience to sit back and suffer the wait in silence. (And perhaps a bit comes from folks who claim to have seen non-existent full-page ads for the camera, ahem.)

It would be interesting to know if what appears to be deliberate withholding of information is a policy that comes out of the company's marketing department, or if it's a higher-level executive decision and the marketing people are grinding their teeth down to the bone, knowing that they can't actually market the product this way.

If it's a strategy to whip up customer enthusiasm, it could be a risky one. If the camera turns out to be excellent, everyone wins. But if after all the waiting the machine turns out to be strictly mediocre, they lose sales and make themselves look bad in the bargain. (I suspect most such companies have plenty of marketing talent but don't have a clue about public relations -- which is rather different from marketing. Most companies think, wrongly, that public-relations work is properly delegated to some low-level functionary in the personnel department.)
Ann Chaikin wrote:
This is sounding an awful lot like Daimler Chrysler and the PT
Cruiser... sad to say. Lots of hype and then too little
information on availability. I hope Minolta's distribution system
is better!
Let's hope they are more attentive to service and to making accessories available in a timely fashion than they have been to communicating with their dealers and customers.
I'd like to know how large and heavy the Dimage 7 is
In the photos, such as they are, the machine seems to be roughly the size of vaguely similar-looking cameras from Fuji...but it's difficult to know. I would not expect it to be heavy. But then we also don't know how much of the body is metal and how much is plastic. (So far, actually, it's vapor, which is unacceptably light. :-)
If both the camera and the price are not too huge it could be
the perfect answer to the digital vs film camera question. I'd go
all digital myself if I could find a good enough camera.
And this might be it!
An interesting issue...the answer to many people's "film--or digital?" dilemma. It's possible that E-10-like and Dimage-7-like cameras with non-interchangeable lenses are actually dinosaurs in the prosumer market. It might be that within a relatively short time, the desirable prosumer camera will be an interchangeable-lens model--and it will be more easily afforded than such cameras are now. (I'd love to have a D30, but...ouch...)

The folk wisdom about the Dimage 7 price seems to be: US$1500 to $2000, as cited in various articles in print or on-line. Such a range -- a $500 difference! Not insignificant.

I'm attracted to the combination of focal lengths and mpx rating, at those price points. But there's a good deal more to think about. Is the new whiz-bang EVF design really as good as they claim? How bad is the shutter lag? E-10 owners love the responsiveness of their cameras, and with good reason. Will the Dimage 7 be similarly responsive?

Is the new 5 mpx sensor going to be really noisy at all but the lowest ISO setting? If so, we have at least a mild disappointment on our hands -- another case of failure to reduce noise when that should have been a priority. The E-10 is clearly capable of taking gorgeous shots at its ISO 100 setting...but not at ISO 400 (I notice that most of the folks in the Oly SLR forum display their photographic wares with shots taken at ISO 100. That's for good reason.)

So will the Canon D30 remain the low-noise camera? If so, WHY ? What would be preventing other manufacturers from adding such enhancements? Is it a CCD versus CMOS issue? Or is it that Canon was willing to invest in the necessary firmware and algorithm designs--but the other companies are not? This has also been on my mind concerning, for example, the Canon's compressed RAW format, available in the G1 -- and perhaps in the D30 as well. What a great feature. Why do we not see this in other prosumer cameras?

So...will Minolta have gone the distance with a really well thought-out design? Will they have placed that manual focusing control in some sensible place? Have they made this camera usable without pain with studio flash equipment? The questions could go on and on...

Hello, Minolta: As much as I like the idea of a 5 mpx camera with that interesting-sounding lens: if they have taken too many shortcuts, ergonomics-wise; if sensor is unacceptably noisy at all but ISO 100 (or whatever the lowest setting will be); if the EVF is not so great -- etc.! -- then Minolta will likely have lost at least one sale to the E-10...
 
I think most dc-s are more or less premature. The rush of course, is to be ahead of competition. Now it seams Minolta will take the lead for a while, with the good range zoom. But after all, things seem to have slowed down a bit: Nikon have placed their, not revolutionary bets, Canon has its latest offers with nothing spectacular in sight, Sonys new realease is the 75, Fujis next generation, due in june, is 3 MP, 35-210.

Those expecting more, must have a little patience, it seems.

[email protected]
http://hjem.sol.no/~otjohans/
It would be interesting to know if what appears to be deliberate
withholding of information is a policy that comes out of the
company's marketing department, or if it's a higher-level executive
decision and the marketing people are grinding their teeth down to
the bone, knowing that they can't actually market the product this
way.

If it's a strategy to whip up customer enthusiasm, it could be a
risky one. If the camera turns out to be excellent, everyone wins.
But if after all the waiting the machine turns out to be strictly
mediocre, they lose sales and make themselves look bad in the
bargain. (I suspect most such companies have plenty of marketing
talent but don't have a clue about public relations -- which is
rather different from marketing. Most companies think, wrongly,
that public-relations work is properly delegated to some low-level
functionary in the personnel department.)
Ann Chaikin wrote:
This is sounding an awful lot like Daimler Chrysler and the PT
Cruiser... sad to say. Lots of hype and then too little
information on availability. I hope Minolta's distribution system
is better!
Let's hope they are more attentive to service and to making
accessories available in a timely fashion than they have been to
communicating with their dealers and customers.
I'd like to know how large and heavy the Dimage 7 is
In the photos, such as they are, the machine seems to be roughly
the size of vaguely similar-looking cameras from Fuji...but it's
difficult to know. I would not expect it to be heavy. But then we
also don't know how much of the body is metal and how much is
plastic. (So far, actually, it's vapor, which is unacceptably
light. :-)
If both the camera and the price are not too huge it could be
the perfect answer to the digital vs film camera question. I'd go
all digital myself if I could find a good enough camera.
And this might be it!
An interesting issue...the answer to many people's "film--or
digital?" dilemma. It's possible that E-10-like and Dimage-7-like
cameras with non-interchangeable lenses are actually dinosaurs in
the prosumer market. It might be that within a relatively short
time, the desirable prosumer camera will be an
interchangeable-lens model--and it will be more easily afforded
than such cameras are now. (I'd love to have a D30, but...ouch...)

The folk wisdom about the Dimage 7 price seems to be: US$1500 to
$2000, as cited in various articles in print or on-line. Such a
range -- a $500 difference! Not insignificant.

I'm attracted to the combination of focal lengths and mpx rating,
at those price points. But there's a good deal more to think about.
Is the new whiz-bang EVF design really as good as they claim? How
bad is the shutter lag? E-10 owners love the responsiveness of
their cameras, and with good reason. Will the Dimage 7 be similarly
responsive?

Is the new 5 mpx sensor going to be really noisy at all but the
lowest ISO setting? If so, we have at least a mild disappointment
on our hands -- another case of failure to reduce noise when that
should have been a priority. The E-10 is clearly capable of taking
gorgeous shots at its ISO 100 setting...but not at ISO 400 (I
notice that most of the folks in the Oly SLR forum display their
photographic wares with shots taken at ISO 100. That's for good
reason.)

So will the Canon D30 remain the low-noise camera? If so, WHY ?
What would be preventing other manufacturers from adding such
enhancements? Is it a CCD versus CMOS issue? Or is it that Canon
was willing to invest in the necessary firmware and algorithm
designs--but the other companies are not? This has also been on my
mind concerning, for example, the Canon's compressed RAW format,
available in the G1 -- and perhaps in the D30 as well. What a great
feature. Why do we not see this in other prosumer cameras?

So...will Minolta have gone the distance with a really well
thought-out design? Will they have placed that manual focusing
control in some sensible place? Have they made this camera usable
without pain with studio flash equipment? The questions could go on
and on...

Hello, Minolta: As much as I like the idea of a 5 mpx camera with
that interesting-sounding lens: if they have taken too many
shortcuts, ergonomics-wise; if sensor is unacceptably noisy at all
but ISO 100 (or whatever the lowest setting will be); if the EVF is
not so great -- etc.! -- then Minolta will likely have lost at
least one sale to the E-10...
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top