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E10 now or wait???

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Bradd Walker

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I have a part time studio and use a N90S with some good Nikon lenses. My son will no longer be working at a store where he can get me an E10 for $1650 plus a 4 year service plan cheap. I will be taking on seniors this summer and will need to either go digital or scan the negs for touchup. I also do dance schools and will most likely be all digital by next year. Do I wait for the new crop of cameras or get this while I can.
thoughts appreciated, Bradd
 
Bradd Walker said:
Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
Click to expand...
You only can deside for your own. It is a personal question other users can not answer for you. If you have business for it, just buy it. If you have doubt about the quality, just download several general pictures included at the review pages and do print them on an inkjet or let them print at a laboratory. Does the quality fits your standard, buy it, otherwise wait.

You always can wait till..... whatever time. There shall be improvements time after time.
Leon
 
Hello Everybody,

Leon is right it is a personal decision in the end. There will always be new and better things coming down the line all the time. Sometimes you just have to jump in and start swimming in the digital waters. No matter how murky they might seem to you, because they will always be that way.

Good luck with what ever you decide Bradd.

Stephen
Leon Obers said:
Member said:
Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
Click to expand...
You only can deside for your own. It is a personal question other
users can not answer for you. If you have business for it, just
buy it. If you have doubt about the quality, just download several
general pictures included at the review pages and do print them on
an inkjet or let them print at a laboratory. Does the quality fits
your standard, buy it, otherwise wait.
You always can wait till..... whatever time. There shall be
improvements time after time.
Leon
Click to expand...
 
Get the E-10. At that price you can't lose. I have one and it really is a great camera. It's not quite pro level, but close. On the Olympus forum there have been a few studio shots lately, so you can check those out if you like. You can wait forever for the latest and greatest, you'll never have the very newest thing for more than a day.
Stephen Livick said:
Leon is right it is a personal decision in the end. There will
always be new and better things coming down the line all the time.
Sometimes you just have to jump in and start swimming in the
digital waters. No matter how murky they might seem to you, because
they will always be that way.

Good luck with what ever you decide Bradd.

Stephen
Leon Obers said:
Stephen Livick said:
Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
Click to expand...
You only can deside for your own. It is a personal question other
users can not answer for you. If you have business for it, just
buy it. If you have doubt about the quality, just download several
general pictures included at the review pages and do print them on
an inkjet or let them print at a laboratory. Does the quality fits
your standard, buy it, otherwise wait.
You always can wait till..... whatever time. There shall be
improvements time after time.
Leon
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
As you already have Nikon lenses, the S1 would be a better choice. It is supposed to be very good for portrait photography. You will not be able to use shallow DOF with the E-10.
Bradd said:
I have a part time studio and use a N90S with some good Nikon
lenses. My son will no longer be working at a store where he can
get me an E10 for $1650 plus a 4 year service plan cheap. I will be
taking on seniors this summer and will need to either go digital or
scan the negs for touchup. I also do dance schools and will most
likely be all digital by next year. Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
thoughts appreciated, Bradd
Click to expand...
 
Andrew Grant said:
Andrew Grant wrote:
You will not be able to use shallow DOF with the E-10.
Click to expand...
Not sure I follow this reasoning either. DOF is dependent on aperture, focal length and lens-to-subject distance, so maybe the thought is the shorter zoom on the E-10 might not be selective enough.

It's 36mm at the long end, and f2.4, which is still pretty shallow focused at three feet or so... It can also focus quite a bit closer, if you want really tight head-shots.

Tom
 
Bradd said:
I have a part time studio and use a N90S with some good Nikon
lenses. My son will no longer be working at a store where he can
get me an E10 for $1650 plus a 4 year service plan cheap. I will be
taking on seniors this summer and will need to either go digital or
scan the negs for touchup. I also do dance schools and will most
likely be all digital by next year. Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
thoughts appreciated, Bradd
Click to expand...
I've had an E-10 since November and after 3000 plus exposures hardly ever pick up my Hassy. It kills me now to buy film and have to pay for processing. The E-10 has more than paid for itself in avoided costs and I sill have a camera. I have used it for children, seniors and families and have printed up to 20x24. It's a nice little camera, slow to write, and fussy about focus, but well worth the money. From this experience I plan to purchase a Kodak 760 as soon as I can.
 
No. It is a function of sensor size AND f-stop. The sensor in the E-10 is much smaller than the sensors in the interchangeable lens SLRs. This makes shallow DOF portraits impossible even at F2. The S1 can go to 1.4 with the right lens, giving an even shallower DOF.
larry said:
larry41222 said:
You will
not be able to use shallow DOF with the E-10.
Click to expand...
Isn't DOF a function of F-stop? The E-10 goes to F2.0...
Click to expand...
 
Remember, If you dive into digital now, even though newer, better technologies will emerge, you can ALWAYS use it as a backup. At that price, if you like the camera, it's not a bad idea.

JOE
Bill Van Curan said:
Bradd said:
I have a part time studio and use a N90S with some good Nikon
lenses. My son will no longer be working at a store where he can
get me an E10 for $1650 plus a 4 year service plan cheap. I will be
taking on seniors this summer and will need to either go digital or
scan the negs for touchup. I also do dance schools and will most
likely be all digital by next year. Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
thoughts appreciated, Bradd
Click to expand...
I've had an E-10 since November and after 3000 plus exposures
hardly ever pick up my Hassy. It kills me now to buy film and have
to pay for processing. The E-10 has more than paid for itself in
avoided costs and I sill have a camera. I have used it for
children, seniors and families and have printed up to 20x24. It's
a nice little camera, slow to write, and fussy about focus, but
well worth the money. From this experience I plan to purchase a
Kodak 760 as soon as I can.
Click to expand...
 
Andrew Grant said:
As you already have Nikon lenses, the S1 would be a better choice.
It is supposed to be very good for portrait photography. You will
not be able to use shallow DOF with the E-10.
Click to expand...
It seemed like the early E-10's didn't support Microdrive. If the new one's still don't, there isn't much effective difference in cost between it (even at the reduced rate) and the S1. I don't think the E-10 supports a compressed raw format and you need memory to store pictures. Am I missing something?

On the other hand, you might need a new wide-angle lens to handle the focal-length multiplier (if you don't already have that covered).
 
Andrew Grant27981 said:
The sensor in the
E-10 is much smaller than the sensors in the interchangeable lens
SLRs. This makes shallow DOF portraits impossible even at F2. The
S1 can go to 1.4 with the right lens, giving an even shallower DOF.
Click to expand...
With the S1 you can not use a shallow DOF either at full aperture. Many S1 camera bodies has a wrong autofocus, ALWAYS focusing in front of the actual spot, giving not sharp images at the spot you need. Only for the sake of sharpness you have to use a more small aperture to get the subject in focus by the DOF. Or you must use manual focus when shooting with full aperture. But with the action and not my best eyes anymore just I want to use the autofocus. The service of Fuji is very bad, because they have not the insight knowledge and are not trained just to adjust these minors.

If you need service to your Fuji camera, it takes to long fora solution. Better to purchase a camera with a better running service department. If you are looking to a SLR, go to the new Nikon D1X or Kodak. These companies have a good running service department and good trained service engineers if you need it. Buying a Fuji, at least you have to buy a spare digital camera. SLR + spare do cost as much as one good SLR.
 
Brent35898 said:
Brent wrote:
It seemed like the early E-10's didn't support Microdrive. If the
new one's still don't, there isn't much effective difference in
cost between it (even at the reduced rate) and the S1. I don't
think the E-10 supports a compressed raw format and you need memory
to store pictures. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Respectfully, yes, you are missing a couple of things. Olympus doesn't "officially" support the Micro Drive, but it has become apparent that this is due to the drive's power requirements, not compatibility or performance problems. MANY people are using them daily (see the Olympus SLR forum on this site.) The best (though not cheapest) solution to the power question is to get the LiPo battery grip for the camera - awesome!

The RAW format is somewhat compressed - 7.2 mb on disk vs. 10.7 mb when open in PS. Not huge compression, but 3:2 is not bad for lossless, and the RAW files are very clean.

The E-10 has it's quirks, but it's ergonomics and "pro" functionality beat the (N60-based) S1 hands down. The images are excellent, especially for people, and at the price I don't think you can touch it.

IMO, if bang-for-the-buck is important (as it seemed to be in the original post,) it's a pretty good way to go.

Tom
 
Bradd said:
I have a part time studio and use a N90S with some good Nikon
lenses. My son will no longer be working at a store where he can
get me an E10 for $1650 plus a 4 year service plan cheap. I will be
taking on seniors this summer and will need to either go digital or
scan the negs for touchup. I also do dance schools and will most
likely be all digital by next year. Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
thoughts appreciated, Bradd
Click to expand...
I had an E10, and sold it...I loved the image quality, and the color out of the camera was great, these were only true when having an iso set at 80...I need faster focus, faster iso...flash sync was at 640, which is great, but the rest of it put me off.
 
Hello Leon

I fully agree with your post!

Stephen
Leon Obers said:
Member said:
The sensor in the
E-10 is much smaller than the sensors in the interchangeable lens
SLRs. This makes shallow DOF portraits impossible even at F2. The
S1 can go to 1.4 with the right lens, giving an even shallower DOF.
Click to expand...
With the S1 you can not use a shallow DOF either at full aperture.
Many S1 camera bodies has a wrong autofocus, ALWAYS focusing in
front of the actual spot, giving not sharp images at the spot you
need. Only for the sake of sharpness you have to use a more small
aperture to get the subject in focus by the DOF. Or you must use
manual focus when shooting with full aperture. But with the action
and not my best eyes anymore just I want to use the autofocus. The
service of Fuji is very bad, because they have not the insight
knowledge and are not trained just to adjust these minors.
If you need service to your Fuji camera, it takes to long fora
solution. Better to purchase a camera with a better running service
department. If you are looking to a SLR, go to the new Nikon D1X or
Kodak. These companies have a good running service department and
good trained service engineers if you need it. Buying a Fuji, at
least you have to buy a spare digital camera. SLR + spare do cost
as much as one good SLR.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for the clarification.

So, if you're comfortable with running a 1 Gig Microdrive in an E-10, you should be able to take about 130 pictures before you download, which is good enough for most purposes.
Tom H. said:
Member said:
Brent wrote:
It seemed like the early E-10's didn't support Microdrive. If the
new one's still don't, there isn't much effective difference in
cost between it (even at the reduced rate) and the S1. I don't
think the E-10 supports a compressed raw format and you need memory
to store pictures. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Respectfully, yes, you are missing a couple of things. Olympus
doesn't "officially" support the Micro Drive, but it has become
apparent that this is due to the drive's power requirements, not
compatibility or performance problems. MANY people are using them
daily (see the Olympus SLR forum on this site.) The best (though
not cheapest) solution to the power question is to get the LiPo
battery grip for the camera - awesome!

The RAW format is somewhat compressed - 7.2 mb on disk vs. 10.7 mb
when open in PS. Not huge compression, but 3:2 is not bad for
lossless, and the RAW files are very clean.

The E-10 has it's quirks, but it's ergonomics and "pro"
functionality beat the (N60-based) S1 hands down. The images are
excellent, especially for people, and at the price I don't think
you can touch it.

IMO, if bang-for-the-buck is important (as it seemed to be in the
original post,) it's a pretty good way to go.

Tom
Click to expand...
 
Bradd said:
I have a part time studio and use a N90S with some good Nikon
lenses. My son will no longer be working at a store where he can
get me an E10 for $1650 plus a 4 year service plan cheap. I will be
taking on seniors this summer and will need to either go digital or
scan the negs for touchup. I also do dance schools and will most
likely be all digital by next year. Do I wait for the new crop of
cameras or get this while I can.
thoughts appreciated, Bradd
Click to expand...
Brad, if you mean wait for a new crop of cameras in the e10's price range, I really doubt if there will be anything better or comparable in that price range for a long time.

While I personally do not class the e10 as a pro camera, I will say it's the best consumer camera at this time and will be a tough act to follow in this price range.

Professionally it lacks many of the advantages of pro models and it would be unfare to compare it to them. I found the greatest limitations to be it's shutter speed and the high noise level present at ISO 80 in out door sunny shots. However in the studio it may be workable for you. You won't see any noise in studio shots and the image quality is really good. Certainly the price makes it very tempting too.

IMHO the d30 comes closer to pro standards, still not a pro camera it does offer greater flexibility and the quality is excellent. Depending on how much you want to spend I would consider the d30. Someone suggested the S1 which is also a good consideration as it's out of camera pics require the least amount of fuss which may make your work faster. Given the choice of these three though I would go with the d30.

I speek with hands on experience as I own the e10 and d30, and also a d1.

I think the e10 is definately a great bang for the buck and it may be your ticket for now. It should be able to pay for itself quickly so I wouldn't be too concerned with replacing it even by end of this year. At least you get your work done faster. It may seem like I pick on the e10 a lot but actually I really do like it. I just like to remind people of it's few short comings that many people don't mention. I can also report that I too have made excellent prints up to 11x16 with the e10 from studio and from the field. I can make excellent prints up to 16x20 with my d1 and d30.

So if the shutter speed doesn't bother you, and if you don't mind a little noise in sky scenes and price is a factor go for the e10. If on the other hand you want a camera you will not be out growing any time soon, the d30 remains the bargain of the century. Before it came along you had to spend over $5000 to get that kind of quality.

BTW, you may wonder how it is possible for cameras with less pixels to be better then the e10. The anwser is the sensor size. Both the d1 and d30 have sensors just a little smaller then Advantex film. The e10's sensor is only 2/3" which is very cramped for 4MP. The results are larger individual pixels on the d's. The larger the pixels the more light gathering information they can get which results in less noise and better quality. Also the larger the sensor the more $$$.

Best regards,
Jim K
 
You are not taking into account the size of the CCD.
Tom H. said:
Member said:
Andrew Grant wrote:
You will not be able to use shallow DOF with the E-10.
Click to expand...
Not sure I follow this reasoning either. DOF is dependent on
aperture, focal length and lens-to-subject distance, so maybe the
thought is the shorter zoom on the E-10 might not be selective
enough.

It's 36mm at the long end, and f2.4, which is still pretty shallow
focused at three feet or so... It can also focus quite a bit
closer, if you want really tight head-shots.

Tom
Click to expand...
 
I just had to respond here. The E-10 takes wonderful shallow DOF shots. I've owned this camera since December. I also looked at the S1 primarily because I have a large collection of Nikon lenses, but was very disappointed in its build...simply put, it's put together like a piece of cheap plastic. I've been extremely happy with the results I get with the E-10. Here's an example of the kind of shot you're talking about, taken very quickly and handheld: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1331074&a=9900358&p=48623214
Andrew Grant said:
larry said:
Andrew Grant27981 said:
You will
not be able to use shallow DOF with the E-10.
Click to expand...
Isn't DOF a function of F-stop? The E-10 goes to F2.0...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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