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GC North Rim Pano and Qs.

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3stones

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I visited Grand Canyon Noth Rim recently and I had a big project in mind - making a large pano shot. I thought small panos could not reflect the grand scale of the canyons. At Point Imperial, I shot about 50 images and scanned the whole scene twice (i.e., in two rows).

The equipment I used were: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate head, D100, and 70-200 VR at 70mm. I didn't have a level with me and just guessed it (Was this first big mistake?)

The software I use for stitching is Panorama Factory. I have tried several times already, it doesn't seem to do two rows of stitching. Does anyone know about this software?

Then I have tried to use PSCS to do the work. However 50 images are kinda overkill for my computer (1.8 GHz P4 with 1G RAM and 200G hard drives). It becomes very slow and runs out of memory frequently. Another problem is that I get staircase images (was it because I didn't level my camera properly?)

Anyway here is an image made from 20+ photos (just one row). I would appreciate some suggestions and anwsers to my questions above. Thanks.

 
Wow! So is this going to be a fractional gigapixel?

I don't use that software, so I can't answer any specific question about it. However, yes, stairstep is a result of the camera not being leveled with the plane you are turning it in.

Just lately, I've been doing unstitched panos, just lining the pictures up as evenly as I can. Kind of a David Hockney (Pear Orchard Lane?) influence. It wouldn't have the effect of a huge photo, but the level of detail would be there, just the look of the overall would be ... cubistic?
3stones said:
I visited Grand Canyon Noth Rim recently and I had a big project in
mind - making a large pano shot. I thought small panos could not
reflect the grand scale of the canyons. At Point Imperial, I shot
about 50 images and scanned the whole scene twice (i.e., in two
rows).

The equipment I used were: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate head,
D100, and 70-200 VR at 70mm. I didn't have a level with me and just
guessed it (Was this first big mistake?)

The software I use for stitching is Panorama Factory. I have tried
several times already, it doesn't seem to do two rows of stitching.
Does anyone know about this software?

Then I have tried to use PSCS to do the work. However 50 images are
kinda overkill for my computer (1.8 GHz P4 with 1G RAM and 200G
hard drives). It becomes very slow and runs out of memory
frequently. Another problem is that I get staircase images (was it
because I didn't level my camera properly?)

Anyway here is an image made from 20+ photos (just one row). I
would appreciate some suggestions and anwsers to my questions
above. Thanks.

Click to expand...
--
Read my blog -> http://radio.weblogs.com/0101365/
 
Hi Chris,

Thanks for commenting.
Chris101 said:
Just lately, I've been doing unstitched panos, just lining the
pictures up as evenly as I can. Kind of a David Hockney (Pear
Orchard Lane?) influence. It wouldn't have the effect of a huge
photo, but the level of detail would be there, just the look of the
overall would be ... cubistic?
Click to expand...
Cubistic? Can you please share some work with us?
 
3stones said:
I visited Grand Canyon Noth Rim recently and I had a big project in
mind - making a large pano shot. I thought small panos could not
reflect the grand scale of the canyons. At Point Imperial, I shot
about 50 images and scanned the whole scene twice (i.e., in two
rows).

The equipment I used were: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate head,
D100, and 70-200 VR at 70mm. I didn't have a level with me and just
guessed it (Was this first big mistake?)

The software I use for stitching is Panorama Factory. I have tried
several times already, it doesn't seem to do two rows of stitching.
Does anyone know about this software?

Then I have tried to use PSCS to do the work. However 50 images are
kinda overkill for my computer (1.8 GHz P4 with 1G RAM and 200G
hard drives). It becomes very slow and runs out of memory
frequently. Another problem is that I get staircase images (was it
because I didn't level my camera properly?)

Anyway here is an image made from 20+ photos (just one row). I
would appreciate some suggestions and anwsers to my questions
above. Thanks.

Click to expand...
I would give Panorama Tools and PTAssember a try on this. This is a very powerful stitching tool that should be able to handle your job. Take a look at: http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm

Panorama Tools is a free download. PTAssember is free for 30 day trial so you can give it a try. I have been able to stitch 12 hand held images with it with very acceptable results. I am planning on doing a similar project when I get the funds for a decent panohead!
You may need a faster PC to crunch all this data 8-)
--
Conrad
---------------------------------------------------
You Can Never Have Too Many Toys!
 
Thank you for reminding me on PTAssember. I heard about it but never tried.

I wonder if it support two row stitching or not.
Mr Gadget said:
3stones wrote:
I would give Panorama Tools and PTAssember a try on this. This is a
very powerful stitching tool that should be able to handle your
job. Take a look at: http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm
Panorama Tools is a free download. PTAssember is free for 30 day
trial so you can give it a try. I have been able to stitch 12 hand
held images with it with very acceptable results. I am planning on
doing a similar project when I get the funds for a decent panohead!
You may need a faster PC to crunch all this data 8-)
--
Conrad
---------------------------------------------------
You Can Never Have Too Many Toys!
Click to expand...
 
I have no problem for the simple stitchings as you can see my sample image. The two row stitching is killing me.

I do have Ken's book. Thanks for the suggestion.
ReedW said:
I just picked up another book on digitil imaging. This one is
titled "Digital Imaging: Expert Techniques" by Ken Milburn. An
entire chapter is devoted to panoramas:

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/dphotohdbk/

Seems like pretty good info, but I don't know anything about the
topic of panoramas. Might be worth checking out...
Click to expand...
 
Yes, you can do 360's and multi row panos.
3stones said:
I wonder if it support two row stitching or not.
Mr Gadget said:
3stones wrote:
I would give Panorama Tools and PTAssember a try on this. This is a
very powerful stitching tool that should be able to handle your
job. Take a look at: http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm
Panorama Tools is a free download. PTAssember is free for 30 day
trial so you can give it a try. I have been able to stitch 12 hand
held images with it with very acceptable results. I am planning on
doing a similar project when I get the funds for a decent panohead!
You may need a faster PC to crunch all this data 8-)
--
Conrad
---------------------------------------------------
You Can Never Have Too Many Toys!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Lunsford Loving
Loving & Associates
 
My first suggestion would be to use PT Assembler which has already been suggested by another poster. It will definitely do multiple row panoramas and I think it is the all around best pano program. There is also a user forum on the PT Assembler website that is dedicated to questions about panos.

A simple solution for the image you are currently working on is to let PSCS create a pano for the second row of images, and then put one row over the other in a 2 layer file, use the move tool to line them up and use a mask to blend them.

To deal with memory problems with such a large project, don't try to create a file larger than the largest size you will ever expect to print. For example, If the biggest print you would expect to make is 40 inches long and you find that printing at 240 ppi produces acceptable quality (a reasonable assumption), then you would need a file that is 9840 pixels in width. Since you are combining about 20 images, each photo would need to contribute almost 500 pixels of that width. Allowing for overlap, 650-700 pixels width per shot would be sufficient. Your D70 creates files that are 2000 by 3000 pixels. If you were shooting in portrait orientation, you could reduce that to about 667 by 1000. In landscape orientation, it would be about 667 by 450. Either way, a file size of less than a megabyte would be more than enough resolution, so by reducing the file sizes before combining the files, you could greatly reduce the demands on the CPU and system memory.

File size is something to keep in mind when you are shooting a pano and deciding what lens to use. By shooting 20 plus shots per row, you are creating a file that could easily be printed at a size over 10 feet long. Unless you really intend to do that, why not shoot the same scene with a 24mm lens (or similar) and create the same pano with about a third as many files? In fact, with the wider lens, you wouldn't need to shoot two rows unless you wanted greater vertical coverage than you have now, so you would be shooting about a sixth as many files.

As others have noted, you need to get everything level to avoid the stairstep problem. That means leveling both the tripod and the camera. I.e., you need to adjust the tripod to get the center column of the tripod perfectly vertical and then adjust the ball head so the camera is perfectly horizontal (left to right). Then take the successive shots by using the panning feature on the Acratech. Repeat the process for the next row. If you do this often, there are various leveling devices available to buy.
3stones said:
I visited Grand Canyon Noth Rim recently and I had a big project in
mind - making a large pano shot. I thought small panos could not
reflect the grand scale of the canyons. At Point Imperial, I shot
about 50 images and scanned the whole scene twice (i.e., in two
rows).

The equipment I used were: Gitzo 1228 with Acratech Ultimate head,
D100, and 70-200 VR at 70mm. I didn't have a level with me and just
guessed it (Was this first big mistake?)

The software I use for stitching is Panorama Factory. I have tried
several times already, it doesn't seem to do two rows of stitching.
Does anyone know about this software?

Then I have tried to use PSCS to do the work. However 50 images are
kinda overkill for my computer (1.8 GHz P4 with 1G RAM and 200G
hard drives). It becomes very slow and runs out of memory
frequently. Another problem is that I get staircase images (was it
because I didn't level my camera properly?)

Anyway here is an image made from 20+ photos (just one row). I
would appreciate some suggestions and anwsers to my questions
above. Thanks.

Click to expand...
 
Wow! Many thanks for detailed instructions. Yours are much better than the books I have read.

Just one more question on taking multi-row panos. Say I have leveled the tripod and the camera. In order to take multi-rows, do I lower/heighten the center column instead of other means?
John DeMott said:
My first suggestion would be to use PT Assembler which has already
been suggested by another poster. It will definitely do multiple
row panoramas and I think it is the all around best pano program.
There is also a user forum on the PT Assembler website that is
dedicated to questions about panos.

A simple solution for the image you are currently working on is to
let PSCS create a pano for the second row of images, and then put
one row over the other in a 2 layer file, use the move tool to line
them up and use a mask to blend them.

To deal with memory problems with such a large project, don't try
to create a file larger than the largest size you will ever expect
to print. For example, If the biggest print you would expect to
make is 40 inches long and you find that printing at 240 ppi
produces acceptable quality (a reasonable assumption), then you
would need a file that is 9840 pixels in width. Since you are
combining about 20 images, each photo would need to contribute
almost 500 pixels of that width. Allowing for overlap, 650-700
pixels width per shot would be sufficient. Your D70 creates files
that are 2000 by 3000 pixels. If you were shooting in portrait
orientation, you could reduce that to about 667 by 1000. In
landscape orientation, it would be about 667 by 450. Either way, a
file size of less than a megabyte would be more than enough
resolution, so by reducing the file sizes before combining the
files, you could greatly reduce the demands on the CPU and system
memory.

File size is something to keep in mind when you are shooting a pano
and deciding what lens to use. By shooting 20 plus shots per row,
you are creating a file that could easily be printed at a size over
10 feet long. Unless you really intend to do that, why not shoot
the same scene with a 24mm lens (or similar) and create the same
pano with about a third as many files? In fact, with the wider
lens, you wouldn't need to shoot two rows unless you wanted greater
vertical coverage than you have now, so you would be shooting about
a sixth as many files.

As others have noted, you need to get everything level to avoid the
stairstep problem. That means leveling both the tripod and the
camera. I.e., you need to adjust the tripod to get the center
column of the tripod perfectly vertical and then adjust the ball
head so the camera is perfectly horizontal (left to right). Then
take the successive shots by using the panning feature on the
Acratech. Repeat the process for the next row. If you do this
often, there are various leveling devices available to buy.
Click to expand...
 
3stones said:
Just one more question on taking multi-row panos. Say I have
leveled the tripod and the camera. In order to take multi-rows, do
I lower/heighten the center column instead of other means?
Click to expand...
I'm asking about this because I usually don't carry the longer column to reduce the tripod weight and to let me to shoot at lower positions. My tripod has the rapid column not the geared column, which is not very convenient to change column positions.
 
If you jump to PT and PT Assembler or PTGUI as a front end, then the trick is to adjust the pitch of a single reference image such that the horizon is at a pitch angle of 0 degrees. Everything else will just work its way out but might require lots of dead space in the final image.

I tend to target a 3:1 pano with a print resolution of 300 dpi @ 20" X 60". Memory is a serious concern when doing these.

There is a new program running around called AutoPano that will select control points for you and generates the script file for PanoTools. It does a pretty good job but still has a few bugs in it.

Some sample multi row stitches:

http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image/35224967
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image/16037689 (handheld)
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image/23988886
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image/24181902
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image/18935883

Steven
3stones said:
3stones said:
Just one more question on taking multi-row panos. Say I have
leveled the tripod and the camera. In order to take multi-rows, do
I lower/heighten the center column instead of other means?
Click to expand...
I'm asking about this because I usually don't carry the longer
column to reduce the tripod weight and to let me to shoot at lower
positions. My tripod has the rapid column not the geared column,
which is not very convenient to change column positions.
Click to expand...
--
---
New and Updated!!!
Fall 2004:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/image_a_week_fall2004

Lightning:
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/lightning_strikes
 
I leave the center column/tripod height unchanged and tilt the camera up or down. But you need to make sure that the camera stays level left to right. Like you, I generally have the short center column installed, but even if I had a long column I would tilt rather than change column height.

FWIW, I don't shoot multi-row panos too frequently. I have 2 Epson printers that both use 13 inch paper. 3000 pixels (the longer dimension of my D100 files) does a nice job of filling 12+ inches at very good resolution. So, for most purposes I am very satisfied to shoot 3 to 8 frames in portrait mode and stitch them together. Once in a while I want something more and go to multiple rows.
3stones said:
3stones said:
Just one more question on taking multi-row panos. Say I have
leveled the tripod and the camera. In order to take multi-rows, do
I lower/heighten the center column instead of other means?
Click to expand...
I'm asking about this because I usually don't carry the longer
column to reduce the tripod weight and to let me to shoot at lower
positions. My tripod has the rapid column not the geared column,
which is not very convenient to change column positions.
Click to expand...
 
thank you very much for helping me out. I just bookmarked your pbase site and you got so many excellent shots. Your sample shots are all great but this one is my favorite,



Here is a shot I captured near the Devil Tower:

 
John DeMott said:
I leave the center column/tripod height unchanged and tilt the
camera up or down. But you need to make sure that the camera stays
level left to right. Like you, I generally have the short center
column installed, but even if I had a long column I would tilt
rather than change column height.

FWIW, I don't shoot multi-row panos too frequently. I have 2 Epson
printers that both use 13 inch paper. 3000 pixels (the longer
dimension of my D100 files) does a nice job of filling 12+ inches
at very good resolution. So, for most purposes I am very satisfied
to shoot 3 to 8 frames in portrait mode and stitch them together.
Once in a while I want something more and go to multiple rows.
Click to expand...
 
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