Panorama stitching software?

Kaj E · Oct 9, 2004

I have tried to take a few panoramas but it is a real struggle. I have tried using PSE2 to do the job, without getting any good results. The pictures do not want to line up, and most of the time I get a message that the program cannot match some of the pictures. Even when I try to do some of the work manually lines are still out of sync and the sky looks very patchy with the seems clearly visible. I fix the focal length, exposure and white balance prior to shooting (I keep the focus on auto with manual selection of focus area because I have tried only landscapes with far away subjects to focus on i.e. infinity). I have not been able to get acceptable results even with very heavy and time consuming use of the clone stamp.

Can somebody please recommend a good pano stitching software? I would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the quality of the result is my main concern.

--
Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

Digital Shutterbug · Oct 9, 2004

Kaj,

I suspect your problems have more to do with technique than software.

First, are you using a tripod? Handheld shots are really tough to accomplish. The success ratio is generally quite low. Use a tripod, and get the camera as level as possible so that when you pan around, the camera remains level. To get things perfect really requires a special bracket or tripod head to position the camera lens nodal point directly above the tripods pivot point. The 8800 has the tripod mount off center of the lens axis, further complicating the issue. All these little things make a big difference in making the photos line up.

The next thing is to put the camera in the most manual position you can get. Don't allow the camera to make any decision. Preset the exposure, white balance, focus, etc. Don't allow the camera to automatically set saturation, sharpening or anything else. All these little shifts from frame to frame result in different exposures. Once you set the camera for the first frame, don't do anything put pan and push the shutter release.

Give these things a try and see if you don't have better results. If you get hooked on doing panos, you may want to invest in some of the special gear. If you're handy with tools, you can fashion a bracket that will position the camera on the tripod for best results. Special pano heads are pretty expensive. Go the cheap/easy route first.

Steve

Kaj E said:
I have tried to take a few panoramas but it is a real struggle. I
have tried using PSE2 to do the job, without getting any good
results. The pictures do not want to line up, and most of the time
I get a message that the program cannot match some of the pictures.
Even when I try to do some of the work manually lines are still out
of sync and the sky looks very patchy with the seems clearly
visible. I fix the focal length, exposure and white balance prior
to shooting (I keep the focus on auto with manual selection of
focus area because I have tried only landscapes with far away
subjects to focus on i.e. infinity). I have not been able to get
acceptable results even with very heavy and time consuming use of
the clone stamp.

Can somebody please recommend a good pano stitching software? I
would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

--
Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

GURL · Oct 9, 2004

Kaj E said:
I would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

If your main concern is quality, I would recommend PTassembler ( http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm ) because it's very powerful, have the best documentation I know, a great forum and is cheap).

Equivalent Hugin (www.hugin.com) is free and PTgui (www.PTgui.com) have a better interface.

If you are afraid about learning then I would recommend http://www.pixaround.com Pixmaker (3 versions where pro version is the best and easiest to use but the more expensive)

Some results (both families of stitchers): http://www.pbase.com/GURL

Georges Lagarde

Joan Corrie · Oct 9, 2004

GURL said:
Kaj E said:

I would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

Click to expand...

If your main concern is quality, I would recommend PTassembler
( http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm ) because it's very powerful,
have the best documentation I know, a great forum and is cheap).
Equivalent Hugin (www.hugin.com) is free and PTgui (www.PTgui.com)
have a better interface.

If you are afraid about learning then I would recommend
http://www.pixaround.com Pixmaker (3 versions where pro version is the
best and easiest to use but the more expensive)

Some results (both families of stitchers): http://www.pbase.com/GURL

Georges Lagarde

Kaj E · Oct 9, 2004

Steve, thank your for your reply. I think I have done all of that (expect the auto focusing with manual bracket selection on infinity, close to horizon, individually for each shot).

Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

Digital Shutterbug said:
Kaj,
I suspect your problems have more to do with technique than
software. First, are you using a tripod? Handheld shots are
really tough to accomplish. The success ratio is generally quite
low. Use a tripod, and get the camera as level as possible so that
when you pan around, the camera remains level. To get things
perfect really requires a special bracket or tripod head to
position the camera lens nodal point directly above the tripods
pivot point. The 8800 has the tripod mount off center of the lens
axis, further complicating the issue. All these little things make
a big difference in making the photos line up.

The next thing is to put the camera in the most manual position you
can get. Don't allow the camera to make any decision. Preset the
exposure, white balance, focus, etc. Don't allow the camera to
automatically set saturation, sharpening or anything else. All
these little shifts from frame to frame result in different
exposures. Once you set the camera for the first frame, don't do
anything put pan and push the shutter release.

Give these things a try and see if you don't have better results.
If you get hooked on doing panos, you may want to invest in some of
the special gear. If you're handy with tools, you can fashion a
bracket that will position the camera on the tripod for best
results. Special pano heads are pretty expensive. Go the cheap/easy
route first.

Steve

GURL · Oct 9, 2004

With both families of stitcher (described in my other post) you can make hand-held panoramas or use a tripod with no pano head, but it depends of the SUBJECT! For a landscape panorama with no foreground a tripod is useless (quite useless, I should say). For an in-house panorama, a tripod and a pano head are mandatory. For other situations ...it depends of many parameters (including how picky you are about results).

An important point about those stitchers is that (excluding low-cost pixaround versions) you don't need to maintain your camera horizontal but can direct it upward (buildings) or downward (from the top of the hill, etc). Not all stitchers are equal, see http://www.panoguide.com fore more details.

Gaber · Oct 9, 2004

GURL said:
Some results (both families of stitchers): http://www.pbase.com/GURL

Georges Lagarde

--I looked at your galleries , they are wonderful. I have two questions for you. How do you take panoramas with people ( i.e. place Victor Hugo)?, and where did you find that view-finder? Is it helpful and convenient ?

Coolpix 880,950,4500, Canon S400
CATS member> ^..^
WSSA member#40
http://www.pbase.com/thegaber

Arizona Sunshine · Oct 9, 2004

Kaj E said:
Can somebody please recommend a good pano stitching software? I
would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

Nikon view comes with a built in pano maker from Arcsoft. To access it you bring up Nikon view and highlight the photos you want to stitch. Click on > file > edit using other programs > panorama maker.

This will open the program. It will show you the photos in the order it wants to stitch them. You may have to do a bit of "juggling" to get the photos in the correct order before you move on to the next step. It also has a bit of a problem with more than 3 photos, but you can make it work if you look closely. It also has a feature that automatically adjusts the contrasts to blend the photos better. Here are links to two panos. Both done with Arcsoft software, one using the program in Nikon view the other in a seperate Arcsoft program. Despite its drawbacks I like the one in Nikon view better.

--
Comments Always welcome.

CP3100 owner, PBase supporter
CATS member #71 > ^..^
http://www.pbase.com/arizona_sunshine

GURL · Oct 9, 2004

Gaber said:
How do you take panoramas with people ( i.e.
place Victor Hugo)?

It's the "Time paralax" method:

When there are moving peoples (or cars, etc) I take several shots in the exact same direction (I use a tripod). Using Photoshop layers (with masks) it's then quite easy to add people (latter) on the panorama as a background (for this "background panorama", the less moving peoples and cars there are, the better).

Many shots for a single image!

Gaber said:
and where did you find that view-finder? Is
it helpful and convenient ?

I assembled it using a low-cost slide viewer (high quality aspheric
plastic lens!), some black cloth and a Manfrotto 200 PL tripod adaptator.
I like it because:
1) this works very well under bright sun
2) 2x LCD enlargement
3) I see a flat image and see it with both eyes
Georges Lagarde

GURL · Oct 9, 2004

Arizona Sunshine said:
Comments Always welcome.

Comments on your second pano: an advantage in using Pano Tools (PTassembler "Autolevel" button is great for that) is you can straighten the horizon easily though the camera was not horizontal when shooting. That's a perfect equivalent to (much more expensive) shift-lenses...

Enblend, witch works wit any of the PT stitchers, is a very sophisticated blender: "soft blending" where few details exist (like in the blue sky or clouds) and "hard blending" in parts where texture have many details (to avoid ghosting). Notice that I can't see any blending error in your panoramas, though such errors are often very visible in the sky at moderate view sizes...

Another great (free) tool from the PT family is PTlens: automatic correction of barrel/pincushion distortion with most Nikon cameras and lenses. Non-automatic vignetting correction is possible, too!

I used Nikon pano maker (from CoolPix SQ box) and found it well suited to this camera.
Georges Lagarde

Kaj E · Oct 9, 2004

I am impressed by your panos. You are apparently using PTassembler. Did you need to install Pano Tools separately or did they come with PTassembler?

The reason I am asking is that I have not found any installation guides for Pano Tools. I have installed the files for correction of barrel distortion according to the Learn section on dpreview (this also allows me to correct CA) but I do not know what to do with the rest of the files.

So if PTassembler does not come with the full installation of Pano Tools, where can I find directions on how to do a complete installation of Pano Tools?

PTassembler seems to do a fine job even if it requires quite a bit of input (and also control). I also like that you do not need to keep the camera leveled. Thank your for the links.

Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

GURL said:
Kaj E said:

I would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

Click to expand...

If your main concern is quality, I would recommend PTassembler
( http://www.tawbaware.com/ptasmblr.htm ) because it's very powerful,
have the best documentation I know, a great forum and is cheap).
Equivalent Hugin (www.hugin.com) is free and PTgui (www.PTgui.com)
have a better interface.

If you are afraid about learning then I would recommend
http://www.pixaround.com Pixmaker (3 versions where pro version is the
best and easiest to use but the more expensive)

Some results (both families of stitchers): http://www.pbase.com/GURL

Georges Lagarde

Kaj E · Oct 9, 2004

Thank you for the advice. I can't find the link to Arcsoft in my version of Nikon View (version 6.1.0). It may be that I chose to not install it originally as I do not normally install programs I do not expect to need.

Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

Arizona Sunshine said:
Nikon view comes with a built in pano maker from Arcsoft. To
access it you bring up Nikon view and highlight the photos you want
to stitch. Click on > file > edit using other programs > panorama
maker.

This will open the program. It will show you the photos in the
order it wants to stitch them. You may have to do a bit of
"juggling" to get the photos in the correct order before you move
on to the next step. It also has a bit of a problem with more than
3 photos, but you can make it work if you look closely. It also has
a feature that automatically adjusts the contrasts to blend the
photos better. Here are links to two panos. Both done with Arcsoft
software, one using the program in Nikon view the other in a
seperate Arcsoft program. Despite its drawbacks I like the one in
Nikon view better.

--
Comments Always welcome.

CP3100 owner, PBase supporter
CATS member #71 > ^..^
http://www.pbase.com/arizona_sunshine

Arizona Sunshine · Oct 9, 2004

Kaj E said:
Thank you for the advice. I can't find the link to Arcsoft in my
version of Nikon View (version 6.1.0). It may be that I chose to
not install it originally as I do not normally install programs I
do not expect to need.

You can install it now if you want simply by inserting the Nikon View cd and choosing custom. You will see boxes for various things. unclick any you don't want but click on the arcsoft software package and install.

One thing I didn't mention is that this program "tilts" the photos slightly to compensate for the rotation of the camera. Hence the better apperance of the Sedona panorama vs the San Xavier pano. Now you know which is which! : )

--
Comments Always welcome.

CP3100 owner, PBase supporter
CATS member #71 > ^..^
http://www.pbase.com/arizona_sunshine

Gaber · Oct 9, 2004

GURL said:
GURL said:

How do you take panoramas with people ( i.e.
place Victor Hugo)?

Click to expand...

It's the "Time paralax" method:
When there are moving peoples (or cars, etc) I take several shots
in the exact same direction (I use a tripod). Using Photoshop
layers (with masks) it's then quite easy to add people (latter) on
the panorama as a background (for this "background panorama", the
less moving peoples and cars there are, the better).

Many shots for a single image!

--Thank you Georges. I think you make it sound too easy. So, you have to take enough pictures to have a clear backround, and then add people through layers. You must be very patient. I will have to try this sometime.

Coolpix 880,950,4500, Canon S400
CATS member> ^..^
WSSA member#40
http://www.pbase.com/thegaber

GURL · Oct 9, 2004

Kaj E said:
So if PTassembler does not come with the full installation of Pano
Tools, where can I find directions on how to do a complete
installation of Pano Tools?

There is an installable version of Panorama Tools on Max Lyons site: http://www.tawbaware.com/maxlyons/pano12ml.htm

Actually, you should download:

PTassembler (installable)
Sample project with images
Panorama Tools (installable)
some Visual Basic runtimes (no harm if you still have them)

... and then assemble the four sample images using the tutorial as a guide.
Georges Lagarde

dr150 · Oct 9, 2004

You're not alone my friend. I have exactly the SAME issues with PSE2--blotchy cloudy and non-aligment....it helped me somewhat to click the "advanced aligment" box in the panorama box but still it's nowehere near perfect--just acceptable from a distance.

Kaj E said:
I have tried to take a few panoramas but it is a real struggle. I
have tried using PSE2 to do the job, without getting any good
results. The pictures do not want to line up, and most of the time
I get a message that the program cannot match some of the pictures.
Even when I try to do some of the work manually lines are still out
of sync and the sky looks very patchy with the seems clearly
visible. I fix the focal length, exposure and white balance prior
to shooting (I keep the focus on auto with manual selection of
focus area because I have tried only landscapes with far away
subjects to focus on i.e. infinity). I have not been able to get
acceptable results even with very heavy and time consuming use of
the clone stamp.

Can somebody please recommend a good pano stitching software? I
would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

--
Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

mikeraboy · Oct 9, 2004

Kaj E said:
I have tried to take a few panoramas but it is a real struggle. I
have tried using PSE2 to do the job, without getting any good
results. The pictures do not want to line up, and most of the time
I get a message that the program cannot match some of the pictures.
Even when I try to do some of the work manually lines are still out
of sync and the sky looks very patchy with the seems clearly
visible. I fix the focal length, exposure and white balance prior
to shooting (I keep the focus on auto with manual selection of
focus area because I have tried only landscapes with far away
subjects to focus on i.e. infinity). I have not been able to get
acceptable results even with very heavy and time consuming use of
the clone stamp.

Can somebody please recommend a good pano stitching software? I
would like something that would be relatively easy to use, but the
quality of the result is my main concern.

--
Kind regards
Kaj
C P 5 7 0 0
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

Her's one of mine ,handheld . Used photoshop

--
Thanks for listening

'Keep trying till you succeed'
Very proud member of Fcas # 111
Mike Raboy

philinnz · Oct 9, 2004

I have two programs, sometimes one works better than the other

Photovista and The Panorama factory are the two I use, almost always get something useful with either one or the other. If I am using the E68 lens on the camera I find I always need the tripod. If just using the camera alone, I can usually handhold

--
Phil A
FCAS Member #100
http://www.pbase.com/philinnz
cp5000, SB26, WC-E68, TC-E2

GaborSch · Oct 9, 2004

Digital Shutterbug said:
To get things perfect really requires a special bracket or tripod head to
position the camera lens nodal point directly above the tripods
pivot point. The 8800 has the tripod mount off center of the lens
axis, further complicating the issue. All these little things make
a big difference in making the photos line up.

Why is this relevant when taking pictures with infinity or close to infiniy focus?

philinnz · Oct 9, 2004

GaborSch said:
Why is this relevant when taking pictures with infinity or close to
infiniy focus?

For landscapes it does not matter, except sometimes as you rotate the camera during handhold you end up rotating the camera a little each time. A tripod will help you avoid this error. If you are taking a pano series in a room for example, the shooting head or tripod is essential to avoid parallax errors

the shot below was with the cp5000 in portrait mode with WC-E68 attached and was stitched 180 degrees with I think from 4 photos - the tripod is essential, this would be almost impossible handheld

Phil A
FCAS Member #100
http://www.pbase.com/philinnz
cp5000, SB26, WC-E68, TC-E2

Panorama stitching software?

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